A Conex Box (Penetrating A Rhomboid)

handyman4545handyman4545 Posts: 381
edited September 2018 in Hexagon Discussion

This thread started out as a request for assistance in penetrating one of the components of the Conex Box.
The titlw was changed because the thread took on more aspects of the project than the actual original question.
Handyman
********************************

 



Question:

I'm still learning how to navigate this interesting software.
I want to penetrate this cube with these two cylinders so that I can see through the cube.
How do I merge the cylinders with the cube such that I can delete the face of the cube within the cylinder circumference only?

Please bear in mind that NOVICE instructions or suggestions in a step by step manner will not insult me.

 

Post edited by handyman4545 on

Comments

  • AscaniaAscania Posts: 662

    Either use the boolean operations and create an utter mess of geometry or start with the hole and costruct your cube outward from that.

  • handyman4545handyman4545 Posts: 381
    edited September 2018

    #1 Boolean Operations.
    #2 Starting with the hole?
    Not sure how to do that but I'd love a simple explaination on how to extract a cube from a cylinder.

    Don't see that as practicle in this application though.
    I have two intersecting cylinders penetrating this cube.
    I'd have to start with two holes(?) at perpindicular angles before somehow building the cube from them.
    I'd guess that I'd end up having to resort back to option #1 with at least one of the two cylinders?

    Is there no way to simply penetrate the cube with the cylinder, weld the ends of the cylinder to the cube's face(s) (w/o adding a cuzillion new edges & pts) and then delete the cube face only inside the cylinder's circumference?

     

    BTW
    Curious as to your background with this software.
    I'm guessing your occupation puts you in front of a computer screen in an engineering application of some sort.

    I, direct a bunch of ying yangs with hammers and screw drivers in building and remodeling. My auto cad work puts me here.

     

    UPDATE

    I am trying a cube, with 21 tessian pts.
    Deleting the center pts
    Then what?

     

    Post edited by handyman4545 on
  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,398

    For the attached object, I did it this way...

    1. Create a new cube primitive. I did 7 subdivisions during the creation to give me enough faces to work with.
    2. Select and delete 4 faces on the top and bottom sides of the cube
    3. Select all four edges of the top and bottom holes
    4. In Vertex Modeling, use the "Bridge" command to connect the two holes
    5. I applied 2 levels of smoothing to make them round instead of rectangular

    You can do the intersecting objects, weld them, weld and connect vertices, etc. But I found that to be more time consuming than just bridging the hole in the cube.

    BlockWithHole.png
    1380 x 856 - 162K
  • AscaniaAscania Posts: 662

    Make sure the Universal Manipulator is turned on.

    Create a horizontal cylinder, 16 pts/sec, 2 sections, no caps, length doesn't matter. You now have your hole.

    Want an elongated one? Delete the bottom half, choose the symmetry tool and set it to -Y symmetry. Apply. Select the top object and move it up as far as you like. Now select both object and use the Weld tool to combine them into one. In edge selection mode select the horizontal edges of each part and click the bridge tool. Do one side first, then the other. You now have an elongated cylinder like in your first image. There are other ways but so you learn some new tools.

    Now, select one of the edges of the open front and hit the L key. You now have a loop selection all around the front. If not you selected the wrong edge or did something wrong in a previous step and the parts aren't correctly welded.

    Hold down the CRTL key (CMD if you're on a Mac), click on the yellow square in the centre of your manipulator and drag your mouse. You just extruded some faces perpendicular to the direction of your hole. In the Properties panel turn on Symmetry in the Y direction. Select they topmost four edges (at the rim of the just extruded faces). Right-click, select Set Pivot and click on the top vertex. The manipulator is now no longer in the centre of the object or selection but locked to that vertex. Click on the green square and drag your mouse downward until the manipulator turns two-dimensional. You now scaled the Y dimension of those selected edges down to zero, turning them into a straight line. You will also notice that the same happened automagically at the bottom. That's the magic of symmetry.

    Now switch to X symmetry, select the previously unselected edges along the right side, right-click, set the pivot to one of the vertices on the right edge and do the same scaling along the X-Axis (or Z, depending on which direction your cylinder is facing).

    Right-click and Reset Pivot.

     

    Now create a simple cube. Set its pivot to one of its corners, grab one of the little triangles on the manipulator and move the cube. Now, while doing this hold down the shift key. You will notice that the objects starts snapping to various vertices. This is a bit temperamental and may need a steady hand. You can now align a face of the cube with the open front of your hole.

     

    You now have all the tools at hand to finish the job. You have the hole, you have the cube aligned with it and all you need to do is position things correctly, delete the face on the cube  and bridge from the hole to the cube to create a new front. Then do the backside via symmetry.

     

    BTW, your guess is wrong. In my day job I try keeping a bunch of meatheads from f**king up your food.

  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 363
    edited September 2018

    One other way:-

    1. With tube selected, copy/paste one of the edge loops from the end of the tube. Make 3 copies (it gives you 3 closed polylines).

    2. Move one of the polylines to the side of the tube, use it to boolean out the tube. Reshape one of the polylines into a square(size of cube). Create ruled surface between square polyline and polyline still around end of tube. Delete un-needed polygons from tube(highlighted in pic). Weld tube/ruled surface together

    3. Copy/rotate 3 times to create cube. Weld together.

    4 Add top/bottom of cube

     

     

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    Post edited by stem_athome on
  • LOL!
    Then I am forever greatful to you and your occupation!

    Here I have the "Bridge" method.

    With the cube and tessian, as sugested by JR above (TY) I applied the Pts and delete to create the holes in the faces and then with the Sides and Bridge, created the holes.
    Looks great with one hole! You can see clean through it and best of all, it was quick.
    But with two holes, the sides of the hole show inside the perpendicular counter part holes and you can't see through the cube anymore through either.
    Wondering if you need to bridge to the holes side then repeat on the opposite side?
    If so, then it gets lengthy and more challenging since new counter lines have to be created on the holes side wall to bridge to.

    Think I'll try Asc's method next.

     

     

  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,398
    edited September 2018

    I should have added the steps for removing the intersection. It isn't as hard as it seems at first. It took me about 30 minutes to create 

    That included the time it took to capture in-progress pictures for the Holey Cube blog post I just wrote detailing the whole process I used. It also included the time I wasted until I remembered "Average Weld". :)

    Post edited by JonnyRay on
  • mach25mach25 Posts: 195
    edited September 2018

    Jonnyray

    Make new material for inner hole,mark facets that are inside hole and set new material and now you have two materials for same cube that you can use different colors or/and textures for outer and inner part of 3d object

    Holey cube,sounds like the cube you start with when modelling holy grail or other holy object :)

    Post edited by mach25 on
  • handyman4545handyman4545 Posts: 381
    edited September 2018

    I'm really proud of this so far!

    This is the most complicated I've done yet (granted it's probebly peanuts for most of you :-)).
    The ends of the Conex have 6 different elements involved in them.
    So far, nothing has been welded together although this part is one actual unit in reality.

    The next part is the closed end and then the doors.

    The closed end is also an integral part of the Conex but the doors I wnat to actually operate with built in stop points.
    I saw a video some place (thankfully I saved it somewhere) about building a pair of pliers that actually worked. I'll dig it up maybe tonight after I get the closed end done and review it again.

    BTW
    TY to all for joining in and to Stem.
    I tried your method and found it the simplest yet.

    Post edited by handyman4545 on
  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,398
    edited September 2018

    The best part about threads like this are to see the various ways that people choose to accomplish the same task. Having a tool that is flexible enough to give you multiple ways to achieve the same goal makes this hobby more enjoyable.

    mach25 said:

    Jonnyray

    Make new material for inner hole,mark facets that are inside hole and set new material and now you have two materials for same cube that you can use different colors or/and textures for outer and inner part of 3d object

    Holey cube,sounds like the cube you start with when modelling holy grail or other holy object :)

    Good idea. That would make the parts easier to see visually for someone trying to follow it. I may go through and reproduce the WIP images to make it more clear.

    Post edited by JonnyRay on
  • Best thing about these forums is the people who take the time to help those of us just getting started.
    Kudos folks.

  • Finished the doors today.
    The detail was challenging. There are several structural bracing members in the door skin that create the rectangular projections on the doors surface that you cant see from the outside but show inside and the hinging system was fun.
    I'm outa time now so I'll have to do the actual swing motions tonight.

    I also have to do a texturing schedule as well.
    I left all the parts pretty much, unwelded to give me more options on color control but I think I'm gonna need to figure out how to apply a jpg/png image to the surface to get the rough, beatup conditioning, the mfg plates and the painted signs and i.d. insignia.
    Texturng is totally new to me as well so there's a learning curve there.

    I had some issues with the software crashing when I started to put the roof system together and after numerous unsuccessful trys, crash's, reopening the program and trying again only to suffer the same crash I gave up with it as is.
    The surface ridges rise above the roof line and should be chamfered but every time I try to chamfer them (they are all connected simultaneously via a copy procedure earlier) the program crashed.

  • mach25mach25 Posts: 195

    really great job handyman,much detail,but when you start with texturing there is an option to have polys for all kinds of detail:bumpmap,transmaps etc greyscale,just try set a texture and bumpmap in hexagon and see what it does

    there are great 3d programs like bryce,carrara for generating textures when imported,they have lots of material from chrome shiny new metal to rusty iron and all kinds of different and material/shader editor to customize them for your need,and 2d paint programs, that can randomgenerate lots of different things,for example noise for bumpmap to make it rough,even different kind of camo pattern,randomly generated rust to get you started with a texture and add your own custom things

     

  • handyman4545handyman4545 Posts: 381
    edited September 2018

    Thx a mil Mach. I know it's not super complicated but I'm facinated with this 3D crap.
    I've been using AutoCad for maybe 20 years and never once ventured in the "wire" side.
    Now I'm so sucked into this crap that I'm at it till 3am. I've had to start putting a timer on my desk and I still keep hitting the snooze button.

    3D Programs:
    Too cool!
    I took advantage of a Bryce special that Daz offered last week and bought in.
    I have no idea at this point how to do what my minds, eye sees but I figured Bryce could help.
    I've just scratched the surface with making envirnments in it a week ago but as yet no paint work.
    There are sooo many programs that I have to first learn what they do and if I need them then how to work with them.

    Where's the money in this 3D business?

    Post edited by handyman4545 on
  • handyman4545handyman4545 Posts: 381
    edited September 2018

    I have learned new techniques including how to effeciently draw surfaces out to create material depth and aid in shading surfaces, then copy and paste them.

    As such I am now on the second Conex Box utilizing these tech's to make it better than the original.
    When finished, it will consist of three parts, the box, the left door and the right door and the doors will open and close.

    I am finishing up the panels and will start the shading shortly. Then as shown in previous posts, I'll transfer it to DAZ and start the rigging.
    I still need to add details like rust, dents and i.d. plaques.

    What I'm curious about is why my images in the Hexagon program are so bright that the detail is invisable?

    Post edited by handyman4545 on
  • I built the doors then the lock rods, the lock rod nipples and the rod lever.

    All were built individually for operation options.
    Next will be the operating door works.

  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,398

    I have learned new techniques including how to effeciently draw surfaces out to create material depth and aid in shading surfaces, then copy and paste them.

    As such I am now on the second Conex Box utilizing these tech's to make it better than the original.
    When finished, it will consist of three parts, the box, the left door and the right door and the doors will open and close.

    Oh this sounds very familiar. :) Almost every object I've modeled I get almost to the end and realize that choices I made at the beginning are making things harder. Seems like scrapping the model and starting over is part of my normal workflow these days! :P

    I am finishing up the panels and will start the shading shortly. Then as shown in previous posts, I'll transfer it to DAZ and start the rigging.
    I still need to add details like rust, dents and i.d. plaques.

    For the details, I seem to remember an old tutorial from Stonemason where he talked about how he layers the details on his textures that help so much with the realism of his models. There wasn't anything super technical about it, it was written more from an artistic point of view and talked about why (for instance) he adds dents and scratches before he adds the rust layer, how to decide where to "rub off paint" due to wear and tear, etc. I don't have the links available here at work, but I can see if I can find them when I get home tonight. It was hosted in the forums on a professional 3D artist site.

  • I'm having dificulties in transporting the Hexagon .obj file into DAZ for rigging.
    Every time I do, I get 40 bones in the Geometry pane and as such, I'm lost on how to treat them.
    I suspect I'm missing some important step in the design stage prior to export but I'm lost on what it is.

    Pic #1 shows my 7 individuly "Grouped" components.
    Nothing has been welded at this point.
    1) Conex Box.
    2) Lt Door
    3) Rt Door
    4) LockRod #1
    5) LockRod #2
    6) LockRod #3
    7) LockRod #4

    Pic #2 shows an individule LockRod #1
    Again, "Grouped" and not welded.

    Pic #3 shows a sample of the "Materials" pane for the individule "Grouped" members.

    What I can't figure out is...
    1) Why do I have an "Unasigned Faces" in my Shading panel?
    2) What's it for?
    3) How to simplify the Shading and Materials so that I have only one name for the multiple items (there are maybe 20 in the Conex Box alone) but still carry the individule shading settings for each item?

  • This is how my box comes into DAZ on the export as is.

  • Wee Dangerous JohnWee Dangerous John Posts: 1,246
    edited September 2018

    Handyman, the way I go about this process I (it has been UVmapped etc) -

    Save the object in Hexagon as a HXN file and an OBJ.

    In Daz Studio I import the OBJ and export it out again. Untick the Groups and Surfaces boxes.

    Import the new OBJ file and start making the Shading Domains. 

    Post edited by Wee Dangerous John on
  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,398

    Sometimes you can also use a tool like a UV mapper to setup shading domains. My pesonal favorite tool, Ultimate Unwrap 3D, for instance allows you to assign faces to groups and materials. I find the tools there easier to use and get better results than I do using Hexagon's tools. And the exported OBJ can easily be brought back into Hexagon or imported into Studio for additional modeling work, material setups, etc.

  • Jeez...
    I have sooo much to learn about this technology.

     

  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,398

    Jeez...
    I have sooo much to learn about this technology.

     

    Basically there are often multiple ways to accomplish the same goal. Sometimes those include other tools as well. Eventually you'll settle into a workflow that feels right for you. But keep trying to learn as well because you may discover something that can save you a lot of the tedious work that comes after the modeling is done. :)

    As an example from my baby crib that I made, I had the whole model done. It looked great as a mesh. but when I tried applying materials to it, it was a major pain. So, I took it all apart and went down to a single instance of each part (leg, side panel, rails, slats, etc.). I took those into Ultimate Unwrap and UV mapped them. Then I reimported them into Hexagon and made liberal use of cloning as I reassembled the crib. The result was much easier to work with when I got to the materials part of things. Now, when I've approached a new model (say the high chair I did next), I was already thinking in those terms and the whole process went a lot smoother for me.

  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,398

    btw, I also found the tutorial I mentioned by Stefan (Stonemason). The one at CG Society was archived, but there was a copy over at 3D Total. It is a bit more technical than I remembered, but still has some good tips on the overall approach as to how he builds up the layers on his textures.

    https://www.3dtotal.com/tutorial/671-painting-hard-surfaces-photoshop-by-stefan-morrell-texture-texturing

     

  • mach25mach25 Posts: 195

    great,thanks for link and information Jonnyray,so is .obj export-.obj import best way to merge two hexagon files?

    I like to work with 2d program and hexagon simultanously,when the texturing stage comes,to test if details work best with bumpmapping/texture or meshes

  • Thanks for the link Jonny, I downloaded it  :) I also bought the Hexagon Revisited while it was on sale.

  • In terms of reference materials...

    After reading several posts re the different modeling programs and the similarity of terms and processes, I bought a used copy of Blender for Dummies
    By Jason van Gumster, and then down loaded the Blender program.
    Unfortunately, Hexagon is still too young to have a teaching manual produced yet.

    I need to know more details on the actual process of modeling and for that I need a step by step tutor.

    You guys are great in what you pass on but I need to ramp up in knowledge to run with you.

  • Handyman, have you seen the Geekatpaly tutorials Gary Miller made ?

    http://www.geekatplay.com/hexagon-tutorials.php

    Check out the project ones.

  • I'm still a little lost here.
    After saving in Hexagon, Importing into DAZ, Exporting out of DAZ (Grps & Sfcs unselected) and Importing back into Hexagon I now have a rendition with no materials and no seperate, movable pieces.

    What am I missing?

  • WOW!

    I bit the bullet and bought a deal on a prebuilt ConexBox.
    The specs read...

    Geometry: polygonal_quads/tris
    Polygons: 26,350
    Vertices: 25,058
    Textures: No
    Rigged: Yes
    Animated: No
    3D Printable Ready: No
    Game Ready (low poly): No
    UV Mapped No
    Unwrapped UVs: none

    What I got looked like this...

    PERFECT!!!

    Almost anyways. I need a sealed end and a door end.
    What excites me is that the box had only the doors, the box and the floor in the materials section.

    How do I do that?

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