(Commercial) NOW IN STORE - Sickle Rigging And Morphing System

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  • edited June 2013

    No i didnt, i bought the plugin expecially to convert V4 M4 clothing, so i (for now) skipped the first chapter as it says "mesh created for genesis".
    Maybe it can be added on page 4? Since it says "The most important thing to remember" i readed it first, and when i saw that there isnt a guide to "how-to" do it on that page, i assumed that it weren't on the whole pdf. Sorry.

    edit: BTW, i am using it now and its simply AWESOME :D a life saver.

    Post edited by virgo_pso_8dd859bdac on
  • katfeetekatfeete Posts: 231
    edited December 1969

    Popping back in thread to ask if you've ever considered adding support for Feminine Touch? I realize you can't support every custom morph out there, but it is a DAZ Original, as well as being the most versatile and useful thing for the girls I've picked up yet. And I'd dearly love to see those breast bridging morphs working on it.

    No biggie either way; since I'm almost always mixing morphs, I get something no matter what, and I've no idea how popular the pack is or whether it'd be worth your while. But it never hurts to ask. *grin*

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,324
    edited December 1969

    katfeete said:
    Popping back in thread to ask if you've ever considered adding support for Feminine Touch? I realize you can't support every custom morph out there, but it is a DAZ Original, as well as being the most versatile and useful thing for the girls I've picked up yet. And I'd dearly love to see those breast bridging morphs working on it.

    No biggie either way; since I'm almost always mixing morphs, I get something no matter what, and I've no idea how popular the pack is or whether it'd be worth your while. But it never hurts to ask. *grin*

    Not without more than one request, probably. Eight full FBMs is a bit of work.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 12,305
    edited December 1969

    Thank you a lot fairy_37.
    I suggest to insert this steps in the pdf manual since is a very important step for making it work.

    It's there on page 7 and 14. I just assumed you would read the first chapter.
    I understand codeyellow's confusion about saving. I also skipped the first chapter when starting to learn this tool, because I was not rigging a mesh for Genesis. I wanted to convert V4 clothes, just like codeyellow. I read the "Most Important Thing", but the detailed directions for saving were not there. I think many of us have never saved a support asset before and have no clue without your detailed instructions. So, if you ever update the PDF, please consider including the save details in "The Most Important Thing" or adding a reference to the instructions in chapter one. Thanks.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,324
    edited December 1969

    Okay. If I do a pdf update I will make sure that gets put in at the beginning.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,988
    edited December 1969

    katfeete said:
    Popping back in thread to ask if you've ever considered adding support for Feminine Touch? I realize you can't support every custom morph out there, but it is a DAZ Original, as well as being the most versatile and useful thing for the girls I've picked up yet. And I'd dearly love to see those breast bridging morphs working on it.

    No biggie either way; since I'm almost always mixing morphs, I get something no matter what, and I've no idea how popular the pack is or whether it'd be worth your while. But it never hurts to ask. *grin*

    Not without more than one request, probably. Eight full FBMs is a bit of work.

    Well, I don't know if/when/etc but thanks to this reminder of its existence, and the fact that the coupon actually worked on something, I now have a copy too.

  • tunggul1101tunggul1101 Posts: 9
    edited June 2013

    I have a custom genesis shape that I created via zbrush. Will SRMS work if I tried to fit clothes to my custom genesis shape?

    Post edited by tunggul1101 on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,324
    edited December 1969

    I have a custom genesis shape that I created via zbrush. Will SRMS work if I tried to fit clothes to my custom genesis shape?

    No, probably not. SRMS works by adding FBMs from the smooth templates, and since your new shape has not been added to the templates, it wouldn't be part of the system.


    Would you like instructions on adding it yourself? I'm not familiar with Zbrush yet but I can be generic.

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,234
    edited December 1969

    That would be handy. I picked it up but haven't had time to look at it yet :)

  • tunggul1101tunggul1101 Posts: 9
    edited December 1969

    I have a custom genesis shape that I created via zbrush. Will SRMS work if I tried to fit clothes to my custom genesis shape?

    No, probably not. SRMS works by adding FBMs from the smooth templates, and since your new shape has not been added to the templates, it wouldn't be part of the system.


    Would you like instructions on adding it yourself? I'm not familiar with Zbrush yet but I can be generic.

    Yes please, that would be awesome.

  • PixolygonPixolygon Posts: 5,989
    edited December 1969

    Such a nice product. With the TU I kept getting polys running away from the skirt on Pretty3D's Lassie of the Seas outfit. Solved using your SRMDressBase via autofit, same went for the jacket- used the dress base on it and it came out wonderful.

    Don't mind the nauseating colors. Was just me having some fun with shaders. lol

    Pretty3D_Jacket.jpg
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  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,324
    edited December 1969

    Vaskania said:
    Such a nice product. With the TU I kept getting polys running away from the skirt on Pretty3D's Lassie of the Seas outfit. Solved using your SRMDressBase via autofit, same went for the jacket- used the dress base on it and it came out wonderful.

    Don't mind the nauseating colors. Was just me having some fun with shaders. lol

    Cool. I always love seeing the pics!

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,324
    edited June 2013

    I have a custom genesis shape that I created via zbrush. Will SRMS work if I tried to fit clothes to my custom genesis shape?

    No, probably not. SRMS works by adding FBMs from the smooth templates, and since your new shape has not been added to the templates, it wouldn't be part of the system.


    Would you like instructions on adding it yourself? I'm not familiar with Zbrush yet but I can be generic.

    Yes please, that would be awesome.

    Ok, starting with the bodysuit:

    Load Genesis. Dial in your morph and set the scale to 100%.
    Load the SRMS bodysuit. Conform to Genesis and let it pick up your morph via Autoconform.
    Make Genesis invisible.
    Export the morphed bodysuit to obj.
    Import it to your modeler.
    Adjust and smooth it until it fits the way you want clothing to fit. Different morphs need different adjustments; most females will require a lot of smoothing in the breast area.
    Export from the modeler to obj again.
    In DAZ Studio, select the bodysuit and start Morph Loader Pro.
    Load up your altered bodysuit as a morph. Don't change the name at any point, so it will overwrite the generated one.
    When it's overwritten, make Genesis visible to make the update show.
    Select the body suit and save as-- And down in the Assets dialogue choose Morph. Check just your morph to save it to the template and the library.

    If you delete the bodysuit and reload from library, it should now properly conform with your altered morph, and I THINK this will cause it to show up when rigging/converting with TU as well. (If not we may need to copy the morph to the Projection Templates folder in data/DAZ 3D/Genesis as well.)


    Repeat this process with the dress and boots to add your morph to those templates.


    EDIT to add:

    Remember, the dress base clings to the legs, but a lot of my FBMs are morphed to hang straight. This is because you don't usually want that coke bottle shape to a skirt or gown. Take this into account when creating your dress base FBMs.

    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • PixolygonPixolygon Posts: 5,989
    edited June 2013

    I don't have many V4 things installed atm (other than scifi/fetish skimpy things hanging on by mere threads), but if the rest of my installs go this smoothly then this product was well worth the purchase. =D

    The Artik-X boots came out good too following that (albeit lengthy) process with the yellow template things. Autofit mangled the toe of one of those. Luckily I don't have much V4 footwear. lol

    Post edited by Pixolygon on
  • PixolygonPixolygon Posts: 5,989
    edited June 2013

    Woman to woman, "I love you, man."

    Bobbie's Alice dress and Cris/Will's Gothic Lolita. These two were pretty much unusable on Genesis last time I tried in DS4.

    GothicLolita.jpg
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    V4Alys.jpg
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    Post edited by Pixolygon on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,324
    edited December 1969

    Awesome. :-) They look very nice.

  • Tman300Tman300 Posts: 36
    edited December 1969

    Product doesn't seem to work for me when I need it to. This is the second time out of 2 tries that it has let me down. What a waste so far.

    I have a V4 skirt (V4 Denim Skirt by BILLY-T (www.billy-factory.com)) and I can't do anything with it to make it fit properly. :(

    Conversion actually decreases the fit of the skirt moving it too far forward rendering it useless. Adding the smooth modifier to the process further distorts the skirt by opening up the seams. I saved it as a wearable hoping that the initial distortion I saw was an artifact but it wasn't. I'm following the instructions and I even tried a number of different clone/projection template combos but to no avail.

    As a matter of fact I get better but still unacceptable results when just using the smooth modifier by itself (again the seam issue).

    If anyone has any ideas I would really appreciate your sharing. Thanks.

  • ArkathanArkathan Posts: 59
    edited December 1969

    Can we get a render of the issue?

    Did you try fitting the dress to the SRMS clothing instead of the figure? That was put forward earlier in the thread and has some advantages.

  • Tman300Tman300 Posts: 36
    edited June 2013

    Arkathan

    "Can we get a render of the issue?

    Did you try fitting the dress to the SRMS clothing instead of the figure? That was put forward earlier in the thread and has some advantages."

    I have no idea what you are saying.

    I tried to use it 2 ways.

    1) I fit the item to genesis then went straight to the Transfer Utility as skirt is now triax weighted.

    2) I kept the skirt off the figure triax weighted it and then fit it to the figure and went on from there.

    You have to fit the garment to a figure in order to use the transfer utility. I used both srms and other choices for the projection template but it didn't matter at all.

    Btw the .dsf that is generated in the data sub folder is useless as it won't load. The .duf saved under figure, which you have to do as part of the saving process (not in the manual btw) reflects the errors I previously laid out.

    Software purportedly designed to help end users shouldn't be written and documented this poorly so that one has to resort to a discussion thread and use workarounds. I used to be a business systems architect and wrote plenty of code in my day so I know whereof I speak.

    Extremely unhappy with this product. Wish I could get my money back.

    Post edited by Tman300 on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,324
    edited December 1969

    Tman300 said:
    Product doesn't seem to work for me when I need it to. This is the second time out of 2 tries that it has let me down. What a waste so far.

    I have a V4 skirt (V4 Denim Skirt by BILLY-T (www.billy-factory.com)) and I can't do anything with it to make it fit properly. :(

    Conversion actually decreases the fit of the skirt moving it too far forward rendering it useless. Adding the smooth modifier to the process further distorts the skirt by opening up the seams. I saved it as a wearable hoping that the initial distortion I saw was an artifact but it wasn't. I'm following the instructions and I even tried a number of different clone/projection template combos but to no avail.

    As a matter of fact I get better but still unacceptable results when just using the smooth modifier by itself (again the seam issue).

    If anyone has any ideas I would really appreciate your sharing. Thanks.

    Yes, pics, please. Did you save to library, delete, and reload before fitting to Genesis? Are you posing with the skirt handles?


    It's possible the seam issue is just not resolvable owing to the initial geometry being split there (some artists will do that, most know not to now). Turning down the smoothing samples to 1 may help avoid that while still letting you have collision.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,324
    edited December 1969

    Tman300 said:
    Arkathan

    "Can we get a render of the issue?

    Did you try fitting the dress to the SRMS clothing instead of the figure? That was put forward earlier in the thread and has some advantages."

    I have no idea what you are saying.

    I tried to use it 2 ways.

    1) I fit the item to genesis then went straight to the Transfer Utility as skirt is now triax weighted.

    2) I kept the skirt off the figure triax weighted it and then fit it to the figure and went on from there.

    You have to fit the garment to a figure in order to use the transfer utility. I used both srms and other choices for the projection template but it didn't matter at all.

    Btw the .dsf that is generated in the data sub folder is useless as it won't load. The .duf saved under figure, which you have to do as part of the saving process (not in the manual btw) reflects the errors I previously laid out.

    Software purportedly designed to help end users shouldn't be written and documented this poorly so that one has to resort to a discussion thread and use workarounds. I used to be a business systems architect and wrote plenty of code in my day so I know whereof I speak.

    Extremely unhappy with this product. Wish I could get my money back.

    Do a support ticket and ask to return it. DAZ will give you your money back.

  • Tman300Tman300 Posts: 36
    edited December 1969

    Sorry Sickleyield I was just venting at the end of that last comment as I've been working on this for hours now. Really would like to get this to work.

    To clarify the process I am following let me list the steps.

    1) I bring the skirt into the scene attached to nothing.
    1) I triax rig the skirt.
    2) I start the transfer utility and enter the info as laid out in the manual.
    3) The skirt automatically snaps to the genesis figure.
    4) I save the duf and enter the info as set forth in the manual.
    5) I delete the skirt and exit DazStudio without saving the scene.
    6) I restart DazStudio and try to use the skirt.

    Getting into more detail has raised some other questions as well.

    1) I am choosing bodysuit tight as the projection template as I write this. Haven't gotten the bodysuit/dress/pants sms to yleld good results with the skirt so far. Is it required that we use them?

    2) During the save process, what content type is the garment supposed to be saved under?
    I keep choosing garment/skirt although it defaults to actor. Should I leave it alone?

    3) One thing that I do notice is that the default genesis figure is used in all the manual illustrations. Is this to a requirement as I am using a customized genesis character?

    Here is a pic of the seam issue with smooth modifier applied in the new rigging of the skirt. I have no explanation, but the really poor fit issue seems to have gone away.

    Thanks

    Seam_Issue.jpg
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  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,324
    edited June 2013

    Tman300 said:
    Sorry Sickleyield I was just venting at the end of that last comment as I've been working on this for hours now. Really would like to get this to work.

    To clarify the process I am following let me list the steps.

    1) I bring the skirt into the scene attached to nothing.
    1) I triax rig the skirt.
    2) I start the transfer utility and enter the info as laid out in the manual.
    3) The skirt automatically snaps to the genesis figure.
    4) I save the duf and enter the info as set forth in the manual.
    5) I delete the skirt and exit DazStudio without saving the scene.
    6) I restart DazStudio and try to use the skirt.

    Getting into more detail has raised some other questions as well.

    1) I am choosing bodysuit tight as the projection template as I write this. Haven't gotten the bodysuit/dress/pants sms to yleld good results with the skirt so far. Is it required that we use them?

    2) During the save process, what content type is the garment supposed to be saved under?
    I keep choosing garment/skirt although it defaults to actor. Should I leave it alone?

    3) One thing that I do notice is that the default genesis figure is used in all the manual illustrations. Is this to a requirement as I am using a customized genesis character?

    Here is a pic of the seam issue with smooth modifier applied in the new rigging of the skirt. I have no explanation, but the really poor fit issue seems to have gone away.

    Thanks

    If you're using bodysuit tight you're not actually using SRMS. That's a default DAZ template.


    The content type (actor vs. skirt) doesn't matter to functionality; it's metadata. Just make sure you save as a figure/prop, not as a wearables preset. Wearables presets are intended for loading multiple preexisting pieces onto a figure at once, not for saving a clean base copy to library.


    Ideally you should be using the SRMS dress template for a skirt and then following the JCM instructions to improve bending with the skirt handles.


    You absolutely do need to use default Genesis when rigging, or you will get bad fit results. This falls under "do not morph or move
    before saving to library." The skirt will try to pick up those morphs from the figure and will therefore ruin fit in most cases. That's why that instruction is repeated so many times.


    (EDIT TO ADD) There's nothing you can do about the seam issue except turn smoothing off in Parameters. The skirt wasn't made to be conversion-friendly and the geometry is inappropriately split for that application.

    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • Tman300Tman300 Posts: 36
    edited December 1969

    Ok just tried to use it and none of the fit morphs are working. The original shaping morphs (length width... of the skirt function just fine however.

    Pics

    1) a wild choice for a fit morph that yields nothing

    2) the skirt adjustment morphs ok.

    I'll try everything as vanilla as possible using sms bodysuit and then pants

    Skirt_Adjust_OK.jpg
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    Fit_Morph_Issue.jpg
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  • Tman300Tman300 Posts: 36
    edited December 1969

    Thanks Sickleyield. I'll follow what you laid out in your last post.and give it a whirl. Thanks again for your quick replies.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,324
    edited December 1969

    Tman300 said:
    Thanks Sickleyield. I'll follow what you laid out in your last post.and give it a whirl. Thanks again for your quick replies.

    No problem. Sometimes it can take a little practice to get going on the process.

  • Tman300Tman300 Posts: 36
    edited December 1969

    Ok Sickleyield, I've done everything as instructed - used default genesis actor, used the SRMS dress template for projection template. None of the fit morphs are working and I have no clue as to what might be wrong. I even reinstalled the whole runtime for the outfit and tried again but to no avail. The outfit was designed in 2007 according to the readme so that might have something to do with it.

    Other possibilities/fixes:

    1) Could DazStudio crashing a couple of times today have corrupted the SRMS installation? Maybe I need to delete it and reinstall it from scratch. I rebooted each time it happened.

    2) Could installing the new 4.6 (I currently run 4.5.1.56 Pro 64 bit) fix this? I am really grasping at straws here.

    I had fit morphs working on the skirt but I can't remember what morphing scheme I had injected (v++, midori?). I have used that technique somewhat successfully with other clothes that didn't have good fit morphs, although it probably shouldn't have worked.

    At this point I'll just look for another denim mini skirt. Shame to have wasted $18 on the outfit and textures. I'll thoroughly check the readme next time before I buy.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,324
    edited December 1969

    Tman300 said:
    Ok Sickleyield, I've done everything as instructed - used default genesis actor, used the SRMS dress template for projection template. None of the fit morphs are working and I have no clue as to what might be wrong. I even reinstalled the whole runtime for the outfit and tried again but to no avail. The outfit was designed in 2007 according to the readme so that might have something to do with it.

    Other possibilities/fixes:

    1) Could DazStudio crashing a couple of times today have corrupted the SRMS installation? Maybe I need to delete it and reinstall it from scratch. I rebooted each time it happened.

    2) Could installing the new 4.6 (I currently run 4.5.1.56 Pro 64 bit) fix this? I am really grasping at straws here.

    I had fit morphs working on the skirt but I can't remember what morphing scheme I had injected (v++, midori?). I have used that technique somewhat successfully with other clothes that didn't have good fit morphs, although it probably shouldn't have worked.

    At this point I'll just look for another denim mini skirt. Shame to have wasted $18 on the outfit and textures. I'll thoroughly check the readme next time before I buy.

    1) No, probably not. I mean I can't rule it out, but it's unlikely.

    2) It won't make a difference.

    Why are you trying to use V4 fit morphs on an item conformed to Genesis in the first place? They're not going to fit correctly even if they did work. SRMS comes with morphs for a large number of FBMs including all the official ones by DAZ.

  • Tman300Tman300 Posts: 36
    edited June 2013

    To clarify Sickleyield, I am not applying V4 morphs to the skirt after I used the SRMS and it became a genesis conforming garment, I first tried using just the mesh smoothing modifier method, but the seams opened up. Then I injected the V4/other morphs. I didn't save the scene because they didn't work well enough, but they did work. I was able to adjust the hip/waist which is all I thought I needed to fix the fit, but the skirt deformed in other ways I didn't like (most likely issues with the underlying mesh) so I thought I'd give the SRMS rigging method a try.

    To be quite frank, I do whatever I can to get Gen4 things to fit. I am a bit disappointed that I couldn't get even the SRMS FBM morphs to become active with this garment, but one can't expect perfection.

    Using just the mesh smoothing modifier under geometry has worked most of the time in addressing clothing fit. It only fails when the garment mesh has issues with seams (like the skirt which prompted my posts).

    This was only the second garment on which I tried the rigging modification technique. It now looks like I gave up way too early on the first attempt as I now have a better idea on how to properly apply it. I'll revisit it when I have some time and apply what I have learned.

    Thanks again.

    Post edited by Tman300 on
  • kevinMontagkevinMontag Posts: 3
    edited December 1969

    Not sure what I'm doing wrong, but for "What type of item is it" I'm not getting SRM as an option...just the default 'dress/tight'.

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