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PD Howler since no one else will ask, I will

Griffin AvidGriffin Avid Posts: 3,755
in The Commons

Looking at these two.

https://www.daz3d.com/pd-howler-11-1

https://www.daz3d.com/pd-artist-11-powered-by-project-dogwaffle

There's like, 7 bucks between the Pro version and a scaled down "artist version".

Looking at these screen shots and wondering what the heck these are.

ARE THESE A MODERN BRYCE? And does this replace the aged Bryce?

Mostly, aside from the animation tools, is this mostly an app to create backgrounds for your renders- or simply standalone landscape art?

Anyone care?

I'm interested. Says it renders Fast. I have some other TerragenPro? - I think that makes amazing landscapes, but take forever to generate.

I kinda like this for outer space scenes. I can planets, but cool space backdrops would be a great resource and it does clouds....

Smoke.....

I even like the cartoon effect and paint effect too.....

This seems like a landmark release, but no one is talking about it. 

Is this OLD news?

Anybody have the earlier version and have any thoughts?

IS this a great idea? Surpassed by other apps?
Says it can export OBJ - like I'm throwing this landscape into DAZ????????/ Is that what I'm reading?

Would I have textures? Or do I get the general maps and have to use my own textures, materials and shaders is Daz????

 

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Comments

  • dreamfarmerdreamfarmer Posts: 2,128

    I have Artist. It does nice height map landscapes but the plant generation is, while awesome, stylized. Also: the 3d landscape generation is a side function in what is otherwise a quirky general use art program- if I recall correctly you get to the landscape stuff by going into a submenu in the filter menu. It has a few other standout filters (a set of day-to-night ones jump out in my memory). It’s fun to play with the heightmap terrain generation but it’s mostly there to create a background for painting against.  

  • Griffin AvidGriffin Avid Posts: 3,755

    So no, I can't make a 3D landscape for my Daz scenes and/or export the 3D landscape and make full 3D sets???
    And by Stylized, how would Daz photoreal renders look slapped into that landscape?
     


    What do you think?

    And what else interests you?

  • dreamfarmerdreamfarmer Posts: 2,128

    I have not tried to export, although because half of the loveliness is the rendering engine in PD, I think what you'd be getting is just a... rockform? Maybe with textures but not with the skies and haze. And it's JUST the rockforms; no vegetation (although there's altitude-based algorithmic coloration you can assign).

    The plants are brushes, basically. They're not 3d. You make a single stroke and get an algorithmically generated plant of a certain taxonomy. It is a LOT of fun... and looks fantastic... as long as what you want is a simplified watercolor plant. Each of these trees is the same 'bamboo' brush/material, and each is drawn with a single click-drag of the mouse.

    Image 1.png
    1024 x 768 - 524K
  • Griffin AvidGriffin Avid Posts: 3,755

    How fast does it render?
    And have you played with space?

     

    Is the interface easy to use?
    I saw one with coding and that was like......"OH NO..."

  • DustRiderDustRider Posts: 2,691

    There is a thread in the Carrara forum about PD Howler here. It does a lot of things (even video editing), There are a couple of people in the Carrara forums that use it quite a bit. The thread I linked to should giive you a pretty good idea about some of it's capabilities (you can do some amazing post work with it).

  • Worlds_EdgeWorlds_Edge Posts: 2,142

    I wasn't certain about what it does either.  Thanks for the samples @dreamfarmer  When you make the plants, does the result then get saved as a jpg?

  • Tanis VoltaTanis Volta Posts: 550

    you can save it as you want, I have pd howler 10 pro and is fantastic, you can also render animations and create 3d terrain and more. The easier tool to use are the vegetation brushes

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 6,735
    edited January 2018

    I did actually ask about it earlier, but when no one answered, I googled and found this: http://www.thebest3d.com/pda/index10.html  I ended up getting the Howler version because it's the same price as the artist version with a new item from today in your cart. For under $19, it looks like it can do a lot of cool things! (Probably with a major learning curve though...) 

    Post edited by Wonderland on
  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 6,735
    edited January 2018

    Hmm, when I tried to download through DIM, it said download failed... But I was able to download from the product page.

    Post edited by Wonderland on
  • Worlds_EdgeWorlds_Edge Posts: 2,142

    @wonderland The possibility of a huge learning curve scares me since I'm still learning my way around Daz Studio.  If you get a chance to play around with PD Howler, could you check on artistic filters?  Are they like topaz labs or significantly different?

  • dreamfarmerdreamfarmer Posts: 2,128

    The filters are pretty straightforward, except when they're a whole landscape rendering engine. (That's the stuff like 3d Designer and Puppy Ray under Transform.) If you have a full set of Topaz stuff and you don't want the landscape tools or plant brushes, you probably won't use PD much? But if you're on the prowl for an art program that suits you, it's worth a try.

    Screenshot 2018-01-22 15.56.33.png
    3840 x 2160 - 2M
  • Griffin AvidGriffin Avid Posts: 3,755

    Anyone answer about render times.

    Coming from iray, what are the loosely comparitive times like?

    It says quick on the box.

  • Griffin AvidGriffin Avid Posts: 3,755

    Actually it's the exact same price with a new item from today in the cart!

    Just submitted a ticket. Grabbed the wrong one this morning.
    A little too anxious.

  • Charlie JudgeCharlie Judge Posts: 12,316

    If PD Howler 11.1 is purchased at DAZ can it be upgraded to PD Howler 11.2, so that an mtl file can be exported with the obj file?

  • Worlds_EdgeWorlds_Edge Posts: 2,142

    Thanks @dreamfarmer, that was very helpful.  

  • Sfariah DSfariah D Posts: 25,689

    My question is there an upgrade from PD artist 10 to the PD Howler 11.1 or PD Howler 11.2?  artist or pro?

  • dreamfarmerdreamfarmer Posts: 2,128
    Griffin Avid said:

    Anyone answer about render times.

    Coming from iray, what are the loosely comparitive times like?

    It says quick on the box.

    Puppy Ray (the RayTracer) comes with a both CPU version and a GPU version. The GPU version has inconsequential render times and renders as you make adjustments. It also has more options (like a water plane and stuff) over the CPU one. The CPU one has a quality setting above 'final' that is called 'hours will seem like days'. It's not taking an hour, though. You do have to order it to 'raytrace' to see the effects of your changes. The other landscape renderer (3d Designer) also doesn't seem to take much time.

    A couple of notes. Both landscape renderers need you to start with some kind of image. They're in the filter category because they work on existing images. I believe the tutorial I did (very simple and their YouTube is full of 'em) had me generate some perlin noise and then soften and blur it. Once you start the filter tool, you leave it open and adjust it, including stuff like camera angles, lighting, erosion, etc, until you're done. After you close it, you have a flat image that will be turned into a heightmap for a new (probably much less attractive) landscape if you relaunch a landscape generator filter. (I found 'save Obj' in 3d-designer within the filter window itself.) Fortunately, 'undo' works as expected....

    The other, and possibly most unique thing about the PD line, is that while they have layers like any other modern art software, they also have a concept called the 'swap', which is conceptually described as the 'back of the paper'. You use the 'swap' to store things like texture files and other modifications to your main document; the filter will access it and save to it automatically as part of generating the landscape. It's probably the weirdest thing to wrap one's mind around.

    For reference, I have not used PD extensively. I really, really like it but I picked it up as a landscape generator myself and haven't yet found a use case for the very nice watercolor plant life. I HAVE used some of the filters quite a bit as part of postwork. Day For Night I particularly like.

    They have a neat subtool in which, when you're drawing brush-stroke vegetation, you can have it automatically diminish with perspective as you place it 'farther back' in the image. This is not a function of 3d, just a perspective grid (I believe).

    Oops, that's the dinner timer.

  • Griffin AvidGriffin Avid Posts: 3,755

    Thank you. And thank you, again.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,146

    I thought I read on one of their pages at their home site that they do have an OBJ export for the generated landscapes.

    I've been upgrading mine since they were beta back in the day. I RARELY use it though I have to admit.  Too many other things I need to do.  I am glad they are doing amazing things with getting their feet wet in the ocean of 3D... More the merrier and looks like they are doing it right.  Some of the renders look better than stuff I've seen created in Vue! 

  • chickenmanchickenman Posts: 1,202
    edited January 2018

    Check out this thread in the Carrara forums for mor info on Howler There is links to resources and 24 pages of comments.

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/16925/project-dogwaffle-howler

    Tiffinanie Grey just had a webinar on creating landscapes using howler which was done through digital art live.

    howlers animation tools also allow cell animation, animated brushes and a variety ofother things.

    Post edited by chickenman on
  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 6,735
    Worlds_Edge said:

    @wonderland The possibility of a huge learning curve scares me since I'm still learning my way around Daz Studio.  If you get a chance to play around with PD Howler, could you check on artistic filters?  Are they like topaz labs or significantly different?

    Sorry, I haven't had time to check it yet, but it looks like dreamfarmer answered your question. I got the Howler version because I thought the video effects could be interesting (if I can figure out how to use them) and also interested in the 2D painting aspect.

  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,806
    Charlie Judge said:

    If PD Howler 11.1 is purchased at DAZ can it be upgraded to PD Howler 11.2, so that an mtl file can be exported with the obj file?

    There's a free update to 11.2: here's the link

  • chickenmanchickenman Posts: 1,202

    In the above link I provided to the disuccions in the Carrara forums they are discussing bringing the obj's from PD Howler into Carrara and what needs to be modified and there are some screen shots if you are interested.

     

  • Peter WadePeter Wade Posts: 1,603
    edited January 2018
    RGcincy said:
    Charlie Judge said:

    If PD Howler 11.1 is purchased at DAZ can it be upgraded to PD Howler 11.2, so that an mtl file can be exported with the obj file?

    There's a free update to 11.2: here's the link

    Did you get this to work? I've tried it but I get an error message that just says "Unexpected error;quitting" and the application won't start. I don't know it this is registration issue or I have done something wrong.

    Sorry, my mistake. You have to run it once as administrator after the update, then it works OK.

     

    Post edited by Peter Wade on
  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    Peter Wade said:
    RGcincy said:
    Charlie Judge said:

    If PD Howler 11.1 is purchased at DAZ can it be upgraded to PD Howler 11.2, so that an mtl file can be exported with the obj file?

    There's a free update to 11.2: here's the link

    Did you get this to work? I've tried it but I get an error message that just says "Unexpected error;quitting" and the application won't start. I don't know it this is registration issue or I have done something wrong.

    Sorry, my mistake. You have to run it once as administrator after the update, then it works OK.

     

    not for me - crash and burn

  • Charlie JudgeCharlie Judge Posts: 12,316
    RGcincy said:
    Charlie Judge said:

    If PD Howler 11.1 is purchased at DAZ can it be upgraded to PD Howler 11.2, so that an mtl file can be exported with the obj file?

    There's a free update to 11.2: here's the link

    Thanks. I went ahead and bought 11.1 and then updated it to 11.2. Unforunately, with the free update it is not working well for me  Since I wanted Howler for the landscape capalities and exporting the texture file with the obj filewas important to me, I am considering returning it

  • Charlie JudgeCharlie Judge Posts: 12,316
    RGcincy said:
    Charlie Judge said:

    If PD Howler 11.1 is purchased at DAZ can it be upgraded to PD Howler 11.2, so that an mtl file can be exported with the obj file?

    There's a free update to 11.2: here's the link

     

    bigh said:
    Peter Wade said:
    RGcincy said:
    Charlie Judge said:

    If PD Howler 11.1 is purchased at DAZ can it be upgraded to PD Howler 11.2, so that an mtl file can be exported with the obj file?

    There's a free update to 11.2: here's the link

    Did you get this to work? I've tried it but I get an error message that just says "Unexpected error;quitting" and the application won't start. I don't know it this is registration issue or I have done something wrong.

    Sorry, my mistake. You have to run it once as administrator after the update, then it works OK.

     

    not for me - crash and burn

     

    Charlie Judge said:
    RGcincy said:
    Charlie Judge said:

    If PD Howler 11.1 is purchased at DAZ can it be upgraded to PD Howler 11.2, so that an mtl file can be exported with the obj file?

    There's a free update to 11.2: here's the link

    Thanks. I went ahead and bought 11.1 and then updated it to 11.2. Unforunately, with the free update it is not working well for me  Since I wanted Howler for the landscape capalities and exporting the texture file with the obj filewas important to me, I am considering returning it

    Update: Correspondence with the Project Dogwaffle people indicates there is a bug with Howler 11.2 and 11.2b would be required instead.

  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    Charlie Judge said:
    RGcincy said:
    Charlie Judge said:

    If PD Howler 11.1 is purchased at DAZ can it be upgraded to PD Howler 11.2, so that an mtl file can be exported with the obj file?

    There's a free update to 11.2: here's the link

     

    bigh said:
    Peter Wade said:
    RGcincy said:
    Charlie Judge said:

    If PD Howler 11.1 is purchased at DAZ can it be upgraded to PD Howler 11.2, so that an mtl file can be exported with the obj file?

    There's a free update to 11.2: here's the link

    Did you get this to work? I've tried it but I get an error message that just says "Unexpected error;quitting" and the application won't start. I don't know it this is registration issue or I have done something wrong.

    Sorry, my mistake. You have to run it once as administrator after the update, then it works OK.

     

    not for me - crash and burn

     

    Charlie Judge said:
    RGcincy said:
    Charlie Judge said:

    If PD Howler 11.1 is purchased at DAZ can it be upgraded to PD Howler 11.2, so that an mtl file can be exported with the obj file?

    There's a free update to 11.2: here's the link

    Thanks. I went ahead and bought 11.1 and then updated it to 11.2. Unforunately, with the free update it is not working well for me  Since I wanted Howler for the landscape capalities and exporting the texture file with the obj filewas important to me, I am considering returning it

    Update: Correspondence with the Project Dogwaffle people indicates there is a bug with Howler 11.2 and 11.2b would be required instead.

    thank you - do they post the fix yet ?

  • Charlie JudgeCharlie Judge Posts: 12,316
    bigh said:
    Charlie Judge said:
    RGcincy said:
    Charlie Judge said:

    If PD Howler 11.1 is purchased at DAZ can it be upgraded to PD Howler 11.2, so that an mtl file can be exported with the obj file?

    There's a free update to 11.2: here's the link

     

    bigh said:
    Peter Wade said:
    RGcincy said:
    Charlie Judge said:

    If PD Howler 11.1 is purchased at DAZ can it be upgraded to PD Howler 11.2, so that an mtl file can be exported with the obj file?

    There's a free update to 11.2: here's the link

    Did you get this to work? I've tried it but I get an error message that just says "Unexpected error;quitting" and the application won't start. I don't know it this is registration issue or I have done something wrong.

    Sorry, my mistake. You have to run it once as administrator after the update, then it works OK.

     

    not for me - crash and burn

     

    Charlie Judge said:
    RGcincy said:
    Charlie Judge said:

    If PD Howler 11.1 is purchased at DAZ can it be upgraded to PD Howler 11.2, so that an mtl file can be exported with the obj file?

    There's a free update to 11.2: here's the link

    Thanks. I went ahead and bought 11.1 and then updated it to 11.2. Unforunately, with the free update it is not working well for me  Since I wanted Howler for the landscape capalities and exporting the texture file with the obj filewas important to me, I am considering returning it

    Update: Correspondence with the Project Dogwaffle people indicates there is a bug with Howler 11.2 and 11.2b would be required instead.

    thank you - do they post the fix yet ?

    They have 11.2b for sale on their site; but I don't know of any working upgrade from 11.1 (which is what DAZ sells). Since I just got it, I guess I could return Howler 11.1 to DAZ.

  • Tiffanie Gray - IDLMTiffanie Gray - IDLM Posts: 552

    If you talk to the Howler people, they will get you the update fix, no matter where you bought it, here, steam, btmicro, etc. They are very good about it.

    As for the render times, it rarely takes me more than a minute for a finished render in Puppy Ray, at final quality. Way faster than Iray, more on par with 3Delight.

    The GUI/learning curve is not that difficult, and I have a bunch of videos on navigating the basics on YouTube here:  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCokbGIIM9CTT35_B2erkjIg

    As for visibility, PD Howler (both Artist and Full version) have been gaining traction over the years, but really getting notice in the last year or so. The difference between Artist and Full version is the Animation suite. Artist doesn't have it, it has all the rest that the Full version has.

    You can use it for Photo processing, but that is not it's main purpose. It's original purpose was to be a painting suite like Correl Draw/Paint or Amiga Paint if you remember that one. It does have filters, and even has Lua integrated so you can write your own filters. And can do post processessing. It has particle brushes as well as the foliage brushes, orbicle brushes and a particle style paint brushes. It also has dynamic type brushes and animated brushes. I'm sure you can see all that on the web site info.

    As for landscapes, there is the 3d designer version, which is the one that can export objects, and there is the Puppy Ray version, which makes the landscapes youare talking about with the water plane integral to the scene. These can then be used as backdrops for 3D renders, or as mattes for digital painting.

    Miss Bad Wolf asked about upgrades from Artist to Full, and if you talk to the guy there (Philip) at thebest3d.com he will get you the discount code to do so.

    So, to finish up, Yes! it should be a landmark release! My webinar will be out in the Daz store in the next couple of weeks, I'm working on a new webinar for Postwork in PD Howler, as well.

    I'm always happy to answer questions about PD Howler, but, I'm over at the Carrara Forum for PD Howler, more, and the Facbook PD-Project Dogwaffle forum more than that. So, I'll check back here for the next bit, but if you want further answers, that is a place to get me quick. There is also a yahoo group for Project Dogwaffle (Which is what the PD stands for), that I'm a member of, and a forum thread at HiveWire3d about Howler there, too.

    I'm happy to see your enthusiasm for this gem of a program, and hope to see it used more and more, especially considering it's price in comparison to PS and some of the others out there, that don't do as much.

     

     

     

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