3D Print
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Oh duh, I forgot to keep it in my sig when I updated last. Ha.
Still at http://willbear.deviantart.com/ !
In a perfect world maybe. There are already quite a few stores online selling all kinds of copyrighted 3D printed figurines, including DAZ assets unfortunately. Since there are way too many people that obviously will do as they want, it probably is in the best interest for DAZ to come out with a licensing plan for 3D printing sooner, rather than later.
Thanks. I've watched you now so I'll be able to find you easily. Sometimes I just need a bit of day-brightening.
I've been holding my tongue up to now, but those demanding the right to manufacture 3D prints for money from DAZ content, this is the scenario you are proposing:
Multiple PA's spend anywhere from a week to a few months working on each, individual product, making sure the geometry is right, the textures, the rigging, all of it. They upload it to DAZ with theknowledge that their work will be used by artists and hobbyists to make utterly awesome pictures and animations.
Someone buys the products, assembles them, then says "I'mma sell this after I print it!", when they did not do the vast majority of the actual work involved.
Perhaps, PERHAPS, a license similar to the game content license could be offered, specifically for 3D printing. It would assume the user understands the requirements for 3D printing (such as watertight meshes, manifold surfaces, etc). But that's for someone in the Legal department to decide, not a lowly PA.
Valandar: how is that argument any different than the current situation with 2d art?
Anyone can grab content, slap it together, and sell posters.
This is without any animosity or frustration, I honestly don't understand the distinction being drawn.
I think it falls down to reuse; you generally can't reuse parts of a poster, but you most certainly can use parts of a mesh, especially when distributed.
The topic is selling stuff you've 3D printed, not trading meshes.
The same thing applies, that's probably the part that you're missing. Anything that involves the possible manipulation of the mesh (such as preparing it for 3D printing) would involve a licence. Also the using 3d prints from a brokerage where they don't own all the content a person may want to print would be an issue, like using content for games.
Are you claiming I can't alter a mesh, render and sell the image?
An image is not likely to be just an image of one model rendered onto a plain background. An image for sale, tbh is going to need to be a complete picture. Scenery, background, props, lights good composition, camera setting etc etc.
You can't alter someone else's mesh for commercial use. That's in the EULA. That issue then spills into 3D printing.
EDIT: If you're talking about 2D images and not distributing the phyiscal mesh itself you're fine. 3D, you can't.
I have to agree
A PA spends months painstakingly working on creating the perfect mesh and sells it on Daz. With the current licensing, anyone could take that mesh and create a hit comic, or video game (Using 2d animated sprites) and make a whole lot more than the pa made off his mesh and really I think the market for comics and games is much bigger than the random figurine market. and even if it weren't, the pa wouldn't lose any sales off their mesh because someone was printing them. People would still buy them just the same to create their own art. If anything the pa's market would increase due to people wanting to get the mesh to print it.
The only exception I can see is the one pa who mentioned that they also sell 3d prints, but then at the same time, what they are selling and what someone else would create and print would be completely different figures with completely different looks.
The only way a PA would make money from this is if you have a specific commercial 3D printing licence with that PA, just like you would with a game license. We see no money in the manner with you describe. You're thinking we would get a cut from DAZ, which we wouldn't.. separate products, separate licensing.
Chohole: a fair amount of my paid work is actually a single figure on a simple backdrop (texture, color, transparency)
Props, certainly, but Id expect that to be true of, say, '3D print minis ' that were at all financially viable.
I can understand some arguments to limit 3D printing, particularly the arbitrary and slow nature of legal stuff.
I can somewhat get the not sending files to 3D print services/mesh argument.
But 3D printing something at home and selling it being fundamentally different than 2d prints/images? I don't see it.
I was talking about sales from meshs, selling the products in Daz store and that was exactly my point, Pa's don't get a kick-back when we make games (using 2d animated sprites) or a comic, or a poster or whatever and none of that hurts a pa's sale. 3d printing a figure (which would have to be posed, clothed edited to add thickness in paces that are too thin and painted before being sold) also would not take away from a pa's sales.
The only problem is if a customer sends the mesh to a company to be printed rather than home printing, at which point the mesh is being shared which is against the EULA, unless there were some special "3rd party printing" license kind of like the game licenses for making 3d games.
And of course, the problem with that is, how is anyone to know if the model was printed at home or sent to a 3rd party to be printed.
That problem exists for 2d, though it's an open argument whether an obj file is more or less 'useful' for 2d images than a mesh file would be for 3d. It's also FAR easier to do it in 2d (I mean, Export. Done)
But the mesh is in a form that it can be altered and reused in another product, hence the issue and licensing.. So yes a PAs can incur a loss if that mesh is used for other than printing. but the issue is thorny enough where there hasn't been much movement on 3D priniting licencing issues other than personal use.
Im intrigued but most of my budget for such things is consumed by my computer and, well, Daz. ;)
How is a physically printed model in a form that can be altered and reused? Sure, I could take an xacto knife and chop the head off, or cut the arms and legs and reposition them, but how does that apply?
This is a situation where there are a lot of things in play:
1) you may make 2d images and use them in a way that is pretty much unencumbered; you have contractually agreed to do so and no assets are transfered,
2) you can print for yourself 3d models for your own use; Daz grants this and no assets are transfered,
3) you may not print 3d models for sale; you have contractually agreed not to do and you do not have rights to distribution i.e.. the difference between watching a movie with your friends and renting a theatre and charging people to see the same movie,
4) you may not send out out 3d models for others to print: again, you have contractually agreed to do and you do not have rights to distribution as well as assets being transfered from you to the printer.
The rule is that you have the rights to the stuff that is contractually agreed but anything outside the contract is excluded as opposed that you can do anything tha isn't mentioned in the contract.
The transferred file itself, not the result. The licensing issue would be due to the multiple PAs and DAZ content... like game content, not everyone is signing off its use.. and ultimately it's their product, not DAZ's.
I know what the current EULA is and what is/is not allowed, which is why we are discussing if there is a possible way and the reason's that 3d printing is currently not allowed with the home 3d printing becomming more common place
But I don't have to transfer any files. I have a kinda decent Qidi Tech x-one printer right next to me...
But I do understand that if I didn't, I would have to send the mesh to a printing company which is clearly against the EULA, printing aside, it still violates the sharing meshes part. That part I understand and even though a printing company is super unlikely to do anything with the meshes sent to them, I understand that part of it.
It just really stinks that there's nothing I can do as a 3d printer owner except make novelty prints for myself.
I don't think they are worried about someone getting hold of a 3d model then making a 3d scan of it because #1 - the quality would be very poor, #2 - it would have no rigging or weight maps so all that would have to be done, and #3 - there are no textures so those would have to be created as well as all the UV maps. Plus, depending on the model pose, many parts would have to be remodeled like fingers and toes as they would all be 1 piece after the scan instead of seperate digits, eyes, mouth would have to be remodeled, etc.
With all that work, might as well just buy the 3d figure.
If you make your own meshes and sculpts, you could make as many prints as you want. If you are relying on the work of others, you would have to abide by their licenses until they find something that works for both the PAs and the customers.
There is lots you can do, grab a modeling program and make your own meshes. I have quite a bit of meshes I have made over the years and I am on the brink of getting a 3D printer, but quality and cost have made me pause several times already. I have a buddy I know from a game studio I did work for and he has a Formlabs form 2 resin printer and i tried a few aircraft, a ship and even took some makehuman figures, posed them and added some armor I made to them and they came out pretty nice, so I am also waiting for a 3D printing license from DAZ to see what new options I might have when I decide to get a printer.
My buddy printed an Abrams tank he developed for a game his studio was working on and added more detail to it, and it is amazing looking and sits on his book shelf.
DAZ assets aren't the only game in town, they are just the easiest and of a higher quality which is why they should have a special license to use them for commercial 3D printing.
Yeah, I tried sculpting at one point, my human head looked like a bad Salvador Dali painting...
As all views seem to have been expressed and are now covering the same ground, we are locking the thread.