Help with creating clothes for Genesis.... steps involved?
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Posts: 55
OK, I've got this idea...... create some clothes for Genesis, I know, it's crazy. I'm only used to creating clothes for some of the Poser toon figures. I know the steps involved and what tools to use when it comes to Poser. When it comes to Genesis I'm at a complete loss. The idea is to create clothing and eventually sell them as well in my store(s).
Let's say I've created some clothes in Hexagon for Genesis and I want to use them in DS (and even in Poser with DSON), what do I have to do? What are all of the steps involved? Are there tutorials for this, are there tools that make the process easier.
Once I'm done, will these clothes work on any genesis character or do I need to do special things for that to happen as well? What if I want to use them on Sam & Sadie for Genesis? ( http://www.daz3d.com/shop/sadie-and-sam-for-genesis ) Would there be more steps involved? Do I need to have these figures installed or can they fit clothes from other genesis characters also?
If anyone can point me in the right direction that would be great. Once I got a good picture of this, I can decide if I want to pursue this more or not.
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The following link might have what you need. It's very much like modelling for any other character, but you need to be careful to work with the BASE figure, not the subdivided one. Once it's modeled and you've applied UV you can import it into Daz to rig it. Daz even has handy projection templates which can save you a LOT of work, but are entirely optional. The FAQ is still a work in progress, but it should put you on the right track at least.
http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/userguide/creating_content/projects_overview/tutorials/items_that_fit_genesis/start
Thanks for the link..... help me a little on my way. Shame that the most important steps are still missing......
Basics: Adding Bones
Basics: Adjusting Weight Maps
Basics: Creating Custom Shapes (morphs)
Basics: Setting Up Surfaces
Hopefully they get done soon.
These might be helpful too:
http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/userguide/creating_content/modeling/tutorials/basics_modeling_for_genesis/start
http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/userguide/creating_content/modeling/tutorials/modifying_morphs/start
Purchasable tutorials:
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/utilities-resources/tutorials/genesis-starter-kit
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/utilities-resources/tutorials/classic-bikini
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/utilities-resources/tutorials/rigging-original-figures-in-ds4-pro (
not surethis is relevant)Other purchasable item:
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/genesis-basic-clothing-rig-kit
Forum thread:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/6801/P90/#121452 (not exactly a tutorial, but gives a good sense of all the steps involved)
I've been thinking about experimenting with this stuff...not creating clothing from scratch, but modifying stuff (for personal use) to allow clothing items I own to fit more perfectly to my custom characters. For now this remains a "maybe someday" project, but I'm at least researching what's involved.
To answer one of your questions: Genesis clothing will fit to any Genesis shape (with the possible exception of some extreme ones), but you could see issues like pokethrough breast cling if you use it on Genesis shapes that it wasn't designed for. See this image for an example--the shirt was made to fit the V4 shape for Genesis (and some other shapes), but doesn't look right on the V5-based character: http://forumarchive.daz3d.com/postimages/origimage_1_3368418.jpg (here's the thread with more info: http://forumarchive.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=3367666#3367666)
Yes, it is a shame that a lot of pertinent information is still missing after all this time...
First, and foremost is to get Pro version of DS (if have not already; Still freely available). It contains all the creation tools you will need (other than modeler) to complete your projects; The Content Creator Toolkit (CCT).
I spent way to much time trying to track down ALL information regarding creation for Genesis in DAZ Studio, and almost had everything needed except for hidden details DAZ still has not released to the public.
What finally gave me the missing pieces to complete a project in it's entirety was the tutorial product by blondie9999 that Scott-Livingston listed (very much relevant, Scott. Maybe the most relevant):
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/utilities-resources/tutorials/rigging-original-figures-in-ds4-pro
I found roughly 95% of the information out there for free, but the much needed hidden info will hold up your project if you do not acquire it. I highly recommend the purchase.
One thing that is missing, though, are advanced rigging issues such as Geo-grafting, or Rigidity Maps. You can find basic information if you look for it, and I recommend for Rigidity Maps that you start with the DAZ docs page:
http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/userguide/creating_content/rigging/tutorials/rigidity/start
and then try to digest smay's time-lapse video showing him create them for his product "Bad Guy for Genesis":
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/bad-guy-for-genesis
He shows in good detail some importance of alterations, and ERC freezing for different sizes of Genesis.
I use vlc player to slow down the time-lapse to a viewable 25% (near real time), and pause, rewind, and digest often.
smay's site is here: http://smay3d.com/forum/index.php?board=5.0 (thank you smay for sharing your knowledge, and workflow)
Basic rundown
1. Send genesis to Hexagon via the bridge
2. Create the clothing
3. Send clothing only back to ds
4. I generally export as an object from DS and save it before doing anything else. I've noticed it gets a bit funny if you use the transfer utility before doing this step.
5. Delete your file and reimport the saved file.
6. I'm assuming you already have genesis in your scene, if not load genesis.
7. Click on the transfer utility
8. Select Genesis as the source file and the item you've created as the target file
9. Select the template you want to use eg. skirt pants etc...
10. Click on add smoothing if you want it include to begin with and also choose what you want your item to be classified as. I normally select wardrobe/whatever it is eg. dress, pants.
click okay and it should have been rigged and conformed to genesis.
As I said this is very basic and from memory as I'm currently running a render so can't check. There are some things that may need to be fine tuned but generally items follow most shapes. You may need to create custom morphs for some shapes.
Also if creating female clothing you may wish to work from the basic female and use the Reverse shape option.
Hope this helps.
There is a good tutorial by Sickle for rigging a skirt and also Bobbie25's product for rigging dresses. Sorry I don't have links..
You may need to adjust weightmaps and I've recently seen a post by Sickle where she stated she doesnt' use the templates but chooses none...at least I think it was Sickle, sorry brain is fried it's been a long week at work.
Edited to add Genesis clothing works fairly well on Sadie and Sam. I used them a lot with stuff from previous generations that I've autofitted.
Thanks everyone for all of the replies. I've got a lot of information to go through. I'll think I'll start with Pendraia's steps and work my way up from there. Time to give it all a try and see how far I can get.
Some of the completed sections are from 7 months ago so I doubt these sections will get finished. I would like to see the adding bones section. I saw a video about adjusting weight maps but wouldn't mind a different take on it. I tend to learn best when I can see how different people approach or describe the same thing.
Heres an 8 step Tutorial on Adding custom shapes to clothing Ive just written.
1) Morph Genesis into the shape you want to work on and export it to OBJ. (IMPORTANT: Ensure the Scale of genesis is always set to 100%, V5, A3 Reby, the stephanies and other all reduce Genesis's scale, make them 100% before you export)
2) Import the morphed Geneis in to modller and you wantever poly edit tool you have to fit the clothing well to the shape, (but just make sure you do not add or remove a single vert or poly) - when satistfied export it back to Obj and call it FBMshapename.
Example: 'FBMVictoria5' for V5, 'FBMBasicFemale' for Basic Female... etc. This will save you having to rename it in morphloader pro.
3) Load Genesis and you rigged item in to the scene and select Genesis
4) Dial in the the shape to Genesis that you have just modified the clothing for, then dial it back out again or Zero genesis (This is so Daz Generates one and gives you access the correct Property Group path in morph loader pro.
5) Now unselect genesis an select your clothing item. Open Morph Loader pro, You might need to bind a keyboard short cut for it in your settings. I bind the 'M' key to it.
6) Click choose morph and browes to your exported OBJ.
7) Expand the item in morphloader pro (click on the little down arrow next to its name) and set the following options in the steps below.
Property Group: here you must choose the correct path, Determine the target characters type is it female or male? Toon or realworld?
Victoria and stephanies etc go under Actor/Female/Realworld,
Aiko and Hitomi would go under Actor/Female/Stylized,
Basic Child would go under Actor/universal/realworld.
Michael 4 Would go under Actor/male/Realworld
Got it?
When you did step 4 ^ above, this will make the correct path avaliable to you in the drop down menu in morph loader pro, So you wont have to fiddle about, finding it ot typing it in.
Create Control property: Set to 'NO'.
Reverse Deformations: Set to 'NO'
Overwrite Existing: Set to "Deltas and ERC Links"
8) DONE! Click load and now test, when you dial the shape in genesis, you clothing should morph in to your custom shape.
Trouble shooting: If Morphloader didnt give you an error but it doesnt work, try saving the clothing item and reloading it.
If that fails, re run ML Pro check your property group path and OBJ file names are correct, because those are the only other things that can cause it to fail if you make a mistake.
Lastly - just as an F.Y.I, your Custom morph .DSF's are save to My Library/Data/Your Name/Your Product/Clothing Item name/Morphs.
Also Im happy to answer questions too, feel free to PM me.
Good luck.
Bookmarked. Thank you for sharing that, Dogz!
The transfer utility gives you all the FBM's that is installed to your genesis character ie V5 M5 S5 H5 etc. Is that correct??? Is that tut that dogz posted for 'custom' FBM's (Something only necessary if distortion is prominent with that shape and you wish to fix it)? - I'm still learning about all this LMAO
It's also really helpful to see all these links and tuts compiled in one thread :)
No transfer utility doesnt make the custom FBMs, DS creates those on the fly when you dial in the shape.
The purpose of making custom FBMs yourself is that you can make them look better than DS Autofit can.
It depends on the garment and shape in question. Sometimes an Autofit can look fine (no need to make a custom FBM) but alot of the time it distorts in an ugly way.
'Dog chewed up' looking Shoes, and shirts that shrink wrap the breasts come to mind :P
Yeah that's what I meant... Transfer tool gives to default FBM's (Fits) But with many items of clothing (Especially footwear) Custom FBM's need to be made, which is where your tut comes in real handy. I'm very much new to genesis clothing making, so all this is very much helpful :) - Just getting my head around it all lol
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EDIT: Yep, I just trialled some things I'm working on and I totally see the requirement for 'custom FBM's' without them, it really messes up your models lol. (I wish there was a GOZ to 3ds Max...)
and why do you think this information is not given?
otherwise, anyone can create content.
once you know how it is here sometimes to go, you lose all your interest in your hobby 3d.
move on to digitaltutors, go there to learn more.
Heh intreasting theory. but its a double edged sword for Daz, at the same time, more people learn to rig = more published artists = more products for Daz to sell and get 50% commission,
So I really doubt there is any grand conspiricy here, its just Daz being slack at documentation, its just not their highest priority, thats all.
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EDIT: Yep, I just trialled some things I'm working on and I totally see the requirement for 'custom FBM's' without them, it really messes up your models lol. (I wish there was a GOZ to 3ds Max...)
If you have Max check out the 'morph modifer' its really handy for adjusting UVs on custom FBMs,
E.g You made a female top, for Genesis but the UVs streatch when you dial in a shape with large breasts (like a Vicki or an Aiko):
1) Export the top with the Large breastes shape dialed in.
2) Import it to a max scene with the default mesh clothing loaded, (then move it to one side so its position doesn't overlap the original)
3) With regular item selected, add the Morph modifier to the stack and define the large breasted one as the morph target.
4) now that you can dial in the morph in Max - (Just like you can in Daz Studio); you can relax the UVs around the breasts a bit so they dont streatch as bad.
5) Dial out the morph and re export to DS and save it over the old version of your top.
Of course you can also do this via saving and loading UVs, but i find that in Max that doesnt work very well. (its buggy and some times screws the UVs up completely)
Thanks for the good info Dogz. I've got a question to other Max users. How can I get DS to recognize elements or material ID's I created in Max as separate surfaces? I'm a bit rusty but I seem to remember a fair bit from back in the Max 3-5 era, and was able to get a dress set up with 3 mat id's and UV mapped them separately. I even tried detaching them as elements. In DS you can see that the UVmapping is right with three distinct areas, but they are all one surface. I don't want to have to use Hexagon or DS to redefine the surfaces since I prefer the selection tools in MAX. Also it would be double work to set things up in Max and then have to do it again.
Just wondering if there are any particular steps I should be taking.
After a long absence from the Max scene I got back into it yesterday (because hexagon failed me over the weekend and I don't like how blender looks, and I really, really was missing Max). In just a few hours I had a few poorly built tops a couple of dresses and a skirt made and brought into DS as triax items. The joy, lot of technique to relearn though. Forgot how satisfying turning edges is :)
If you have Max check out the 'morph modifer' its really handy for adjusting UVs on custom FBMs,
E.g You made a female top, for Genesis but the UVs streatch when you dial in a shape with large breasts (like a Vicki or an Aiko):
1) Export the top with the Large breastes shape dialed in.
2) Import it to a max scene with the default mesh clothing loaded, (then move it to one side so its position doesn't overlap the original)
3) With regular item selected, add the Morph modifier to the stack and define the large breasted one as the morph target.
4) now that you can dial in the morph in Max - (Just like you can in Daz Studio); you can relax the UVs around the breasts a bit so they dont streatch as bad.
5) Dial out the morph and re export to DS and save it over the old version of your top.
Of course you can also do this via saving and loading UVs, but i find that in Max that doesnt work very well. (its buggy and some times screws the UVs up completely)
I use OBJ as the file type to export files from 3ds Max to Daz, I've worked out the scaling to be spot on... The prob I have is that when I export a file from daz to max so I can make a morph... after making the morph when I go to import the 'morphed' OBJ as a morph with morph loader in DAZ it goes all distorted and crazy. Instead of the nice neat morph I made, the slider destroys the model.
If I could make it work... custom FBM creation and morphs would be so much more easier to deal with. (I'm not fond of hex and don't have zbrush) I've got a number of items I need to create FBM's and morphs for. :)
While i'm up to date with creating things and exporting them to DAZ from MAX... bringing things back from DAZ to MAX is difficult for me. I use OBJ, and it doesnt give me material zones/rigging/morphs. There is a thread on 3ds max where ppl would export their daz stuff to max for rendering in Art Studio forum. They a helpful bunch :) But they work opposite to me lol I send stuff to daz instead... (Prob why I have trouble getting daz stuff to work in max lol)
- Dispite this I fail at creating morphs for files in daz from max... Which is why I'm asking Dogz lol
Well Mat IDs to Surface Groups is a no brainer. :)
In Max open the material editor Create A new material for each suface group you want to create. be sure to name them properly so you know what they are.
Lets say you have shirt and you want a different goup for the sleeves.
1) In material editor rename one of the material slots to 'Sleeve'
2) Then in Edit poly mode select your faces for the sleeve and drag and drop the Sleeve material from the edior on to the select faces of your mesh.
3) Lastly, make sure you check 'export materials' on your OBJ export in Max
Thats all there is to it. Daz will automatically interpret the different mat IDs as 'Surface groups', and it will Retain the same name you called it Max.
*One other handy tip, if an area of geometry is tricky to select in 'Edit poly mode' but you have it UV mapped already. Got to your Edit UV modifier and select the UVs in face mode. then convert to Editible Poly and go to face mode - it will bring back the face selection you medit in Edit UVs.
In Edit poly mode you can all so select by Smoothing group in the Editable Poly Roll out.
What do you mean by 'Elements'? In Max, an Element is part of the mesh where the verts are not joined. Id avoid doing that for Genesis clothing, weld everything if possible, or else it might come apart in DS when you autofit to a shape or pose. You dont want big holes in your clothing :)
If you mean to make a visible seam for say where a sleeve joins at the shoulder, just bevel it in and Define a seperate smoothing group for the sleeve. Then when you add your subdivisions in Max (mesh smooth or Turbo Smooth) Check the 'Smoothing groups' check box in the Modifiers roll out. This will tell Max to use use the smoothing groups bounderies as limits when it sub divides.
Daz applys smoothing rather differently to Max, but Maxs smoothing groups translate quite well to DS, so long as you define the smoothing groups on your low poly mesh in max and tell your subdivision modifier to leave them intact.
I got this to work after trial and error. I don't know exactly what got it to work though. I made a breast morph in max and exported it about 6 times before I got the settings correctly. But I know what you are talking about. I should have wrote down my settings but I just figured it out last night after midnight and I really needed to be in bed. I'll try to figure it out at lunch...
Thanks for this. Will try when I get home. I didn't originally want to use elements for the reasons you mentioned but I noticed some of the clothing I was studying used elements for certain pieces and figured it was worth a shot. I appreciate the quick reply and the step by step info.
In this case it sounds to me like you have changed your vert order somehow when editing/importing/exporting the target mesh. I would have to ask you to run me though eveything you are doing and exacly how your are doing it, in order to try and identify the problem.
Try and study the way in which the mesh gets destroyed by the slider in DS, e.g what faces are shifing and to where?, this can sometimes give you a valuable clue.
Did you try to work with a low poly mesh in DS (just to generate morphs) then smooth it in Max and re-export? If so i think that DS wont like it very much.
Why do you need to bring that info from DS in to Max?
Rigging and Morphs are not something OBJ format has really been written to accomadate.
OBJ exports, Vert co-ordinates, Normals, UVs, material IDs and Smoothing groups - thats about it.
When making a morph target version of your Mesh, All DS & Morph Loader Pro cares about (on the target OBJ) is Vertex count, order and postion. it discards everything else like normals, UVs, Material zones etc as it already has all this information from the main mesh.
If you are making clothing, the fact that you lose this info going from DS to MAX really shouldnt matter, Since Daz Studio doesn't need that information back again for the morph targets...So with that in mind, Max doesnt need it back either,
The only time I could imagine this being important is if you where trying to add DS content to a Max scene to render in Max, in which case you would want to use FBX or something.
But If you do ever want to combine scenes between Max and DS - its logstically 100 times easier to bring Max stuff over to DS than vice versa.
(Unless you desperately need to render it with mental Ray or something.)
Thanks Dogz! I'm glad I found another group of people that use 'Max for Daz' :) I will try again with some simple morph perhaps tomorrow, as it is late here. I've learned a heap in these last few posts. If you dont mind, could I PM you some questions in the future in regards to making morphs and FBM's and importing them to Daz, should I have difficulties?
And thanks also Lars! :cheese: I look forward to learning what it is that solved the issue we share :)
Cheers :)
NOOOOOOOO!!
Only Joking - of course you can, anytime mate :P
glad i could help and good luck. :)
Dogz, that worked wonderfully. Thanks again.
Spyro, To stop the morph from exploding when exporting from Max uncheck vertex optimization. I thought that was it but didn't want to say anything until I was able to confirm it wasn't something else I did. It seems to be that one box is really the most important thing. There may be something else going on for you, but this is what fixes/breaks it for me.
Thanks for that lars ^- good to know.:)
Couldnt help noticing you have Faces set to 'Triangles' there in your screenshot, im guessing that was just an export for demonstration purposes?
You probably knew this already ...and Im probably about to patronise you :(...... but just in case you didnt know - ALWAYS use Quads. triangulated meshes are pure evil as they subdivide very badly.
Oopsies, yeah leave to quads. When I couldn't figure out why things were exploding I tried switching to Tri's. In a former life of mine tri's was the only thing allowed... but that was long ago and not really relevant anymore. I'll be sure to switch that back when i get home so I'm glad you mentioned it.
Umm...adding custom FBMs to an item sure takes a lot of time.
It's taking me at least half an hour to add each one and I'm not sure I'm getting everything matched between them, so there's slight differences in the 'fit' of the item. Of course most of that time is spent in the modeller, adjusting the fit. I'm not counting the time spent exporting the various 'shaped' objs I'm using to model to...because those will be reusable for many items. I'm setting up a 'work area' on my hard drive that's going to contain the various resources, like the shape objects...probably divide them up into folders...one for females, one for males and so on.
I do have to say it does definitely add that 'something' that makes the whole thing look more 'professional'.
Now does anyone know if there is any advantage of making some general fit morphs...something that can cover a range of figures.
For example, I'm working on a shirt. It's going to be a unisex item, but it does not look very good with the 'painted on' look you get with the standard set up tools...which is the point of adding the custom morphs in the first place. But what I was thinking was making a couple of morphs for the item based on extremes...basically from just adding in nipples to the biggest breast morphs found and giving them control sliders to allow a mix/match fit.
It will probably look better than not doing any, but probably not quite as good as doing each and every one custom. A couple advantages, I can see...it will take a lot less time and it will make a much smaller file (there's no way I can actually include everything...V5, S5, A5 and then the Gen4...and then the things like Troll, Annubis, Gorilla, 'weres' and so on)
Ah Thanks heaps Lars!!
I knew it would be something very simple... This all is going to save me $ for not getting Zbrush... And Massive time for using max not other software that I'd have to learn. :)
my settings have always used polygon... quads is also an option (I thought they were the same)
Optimized has always been set ON for me lol, I'll switch these off in future. I never use Tri's (I learned that the hard way)