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Daz 3D Forums > 3rd Party Software > Blender Discussion

Who said Blender was hard?

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Comments

  • sura_tcsura_tc Posts: 174
    August 2016 edited August 2016

    I think one of reasons that starters are having a hard time at the beginning is because they watch video tutorials and try to mimic their usual fast shotcut methods.

     

    Don't do that. Start without a video with a goal model in your mind. Refer to Blender manual and googling instead of trying to watch videos and take them all in. Don't try to mix others' input and just get used to the default interface. I really struggled to create my first spaceship model but, once I got there, I became already used to basic shortcuts as well as basic functions.

    As I understood the application better, I explored the menu options on my own. Basically, do it on your own pace instead of trying to follow what youtube toturialers tell you.

    The first attachment was the first model I created with Blender about 1 year and 3 months ago. The second attachment is a result of furhter refinement on the first model as I became more familiar with the application. I learned it via googling and using Blender online manual instead of watching video tutorials.

    I use everything at default, so that even if I update Blender, I don't get lost and spend time to re-arrane things if needed.

    first.png
    1920 x 1080 - 594K
    second.png
    1920 x 1080 - 812K
    Post edited by sura_tc on August 2016
  • Joe.CotterJoe.Cotter Posts: 3,362
    August 2016

    Nice work Sura :)

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,847
    August 2016
    ...to really take advantage of Blender's customisation requires knowledge of Python scripting, something I have no expertise in.
  • Joe.CotterJoe.Cotter Posts: 3,362
    August 2016 edited August 2016

    There's a lot that can be done just by changing window layouts. There are videos on that and window layout changes don't use shortcuts (except the 'optional' ctl+left/right arrow to switch quickly betweed different layouts which one can do through the menubar.) In the end though, it's not Hexagon, but then again no program is other then Hexagon itself.

    There might be better videos out there for you but this one hopefully should get you started.
    Custom Layouts in Blender by Blender HD

    One thing you might want to do for your default layout is get rid of the animation window at the bottom. I do. I have no idea why they have that at the bottom of the default modeling window other then it got established a long time ago by people who were proud that Blender did animation and wanted to highlight it. If I'm doing animation I use the window setup that is made for doing animation. It's superfluous to have it in the Modeling window and only adds to clutter while eating up screenspace imo.

    The panel on the right can be closed by dragging it's right edge towards the left edge of the application. There will then appear a small + sign near the top of the left edge of Blender's border which will open it again when clicked on. That panel is a series of quick functions, all of which are in the menus at the bottom of the modeling window but put there (in the panel mentioned) for quick access.

    The Panels on the right are the outliner, just like in most 3D applications and a tabbed panel which is for settings for things, the overal scene, the render engine, the selected object, etc... all of this though is in the manual. The only other thing is the menubar itself which is actually at the bottom of the workspace rather then the top. All of this of course is in the manual and there are videos that show this part of Blender and none of this has any shortcuts involved for the most part. The T and N keys do pop up the side panels, but one can get around that by dragging the edge of the panels till they dissapear or use the + signs to make them reappear.

    If one takes the time to go through the manual and watch some vidoes to get familiar with the interface, everything else can be figured out through experimentation and a little research and no shortcut keys need be harmed in the production.

    Post edited by Joe.Cotter on August 2016
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,847
    August 2016 edited August 2016
    ...videos do not do not much for me. I find I have to replay them over and over again multiple times whereas with a book or PDF, I can keep it open to the page or section that deals with the particular subject. Unfortunately it is easier to create a video than write and illustrate a PDF tutorial
    Post edited by kyoto kid on August 2016
  • Joe.CotterJoe.Cotter Posts: 3,362
    August 2016

    You're in luck then, you have the perfect resource... it's called the manual.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,847
    August 2016
    ...but is it updated for the current stable release?
  • Joe.CotterJoe.Cotter Posts: 3,362
    August 2016

    Have you bothered to look?

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,847
    August 2016
    ...last time I dealt with Blender was almost a year ago.
  • 3delinquent3delinquent Posts: 355
    August 2016

    If DS had a manual like Blender does....

    Since the manual has been written it only has to be updated to reflect any changes that get made from version to version. You can ask about anything you find that doesn't work in the current version in forums with threads like this one, or start your own.

    If you really want to give it a go, work out where all the menus are and go from there. There are only a bare handful of main menus and everything else is contained within those menus as submenus. If you don't want to or can't use shortcuts there are only about four levels of menu maximum that you have to delve into and the deepest is generally for specific not often used tools.

    Awesome thread Gedd, and thanks to all the contributors.
     

     

  • KnittingmommyKnittingmommy Posts: 8,191
    August 2016

    So far, I've liked Blender this time around.  I've had an easier time modeling in it.  However, one thing I miss using Blender is that the Transform Manipulator is separated out so that Move, Scale, and Rotation are all on different tool widgets.  In Hexagon, they are all there on the same tool and I like that.  Does anyone know if there is a custom Transform Manipulator widget with all three on the same tool?  I read one page on the Blender Development Blog where there is a Custom Manipulator Project and someone was working on new widgets, but, so far, I haven't been able to find any that I  can use with Blender.  It said some had already been implemented, but didn't give any other information and I can't seem to find any info when I Google as I get a ton of other stuff when I search for something.

    Anyone know anything about custom widgets?

  • DaremoK3DaremoK3 Posts: 798
    August 2016

    Gedd:

    I usually agree with most of your Blender assessments, but I have to disagree with your statement above regarding the Animation Timeline.  Yes, like you, I always found it annoying and in the way for modeling, and it's the first thing I get rid of when I download a new version.  I don't do animation, and, like you, I would use the dedicated animation setup (room/tab) if I was going to do animation.

     

    However, with that said, just today I was in need of it, and I wasn't doing animation.  I was modeling, and needed a quick cloth sim to drape a head cloth for the inside of my Japanese sugegasa hat, so I had to add one to my modeling room to run the sim.  I agree that 99% of the time it is not needed, but it is needed for other things besides animation (this is for newbies following along).  I am going to keep my modeling room without it, but make a dedicated cloth simulation room with one in it for the draping.

     

    Knittingmommy:

     

    You can activate the widgets (gizmo) to be a translate/scale/rotate combination widget by multi-selecting the widgets with SHIFT-LMB.

     

     

     

  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996
    August 2016
    DaremoK3 said:

    Gedd:

    I usually agree with most of your Blender assessments, but I have to disagree with your statement above regarding the Animation Timeline.  Yes, like you, I always found it annoying and in the way for modeling, and it's the first thing I get rid of when I download a new version.  I don't do animation, and, like you, I would use the dedicated animation setup (room/tab) if I was going to do animation.

     

    However, with that said, just today I was in need of it, and I wasn't doing animation.  I was modeling, and needed a quick cloth sim to drape a head cloth for the inside of my Japanese sugegasa hat, so I had to add one to my modeling room to run the sim.  I agree that 99% of the time it is not needed, but it is needed for other things besides animation (this is for newbies following along).  I am going to keep my modeling room without it, but make a dedicated cloth simulation room with one in it for the draping.

     

    Knittingmommy:

     

    You can activate the widgets (gizmo) to be a translate/scale/rotate combination widget by multi-selecting the widgets with SHIFT-LMB.

     

    It takes like 2 seconds to drag up an extra window and assign it to animation for those 1% of times though.

  • DaremoK3DaremoK3 Posts: 798
    August 2016

    lx:

    Two seconds, huh?  I did it in one...

    This was to illustrate a point that the default Animation Timeline is needed for more than just animation, and more directed towards newbies (Gedd is a seasoned veteran), or those who would like to try Blender without being discouraged by those who continue to perpetrate the UI as some unwieldy beast when the truth is just the opposite.

     

    I'm one of the advanced UI-ests that some find customizing to my extent daunting.  I customize with Python scripting, and am working on one in the scope of Sensei Format, and Fluid Designer with a focus on Marvelous Designer emulation for cloth simulation.  Mostly, right now, I am emulating Hexagon, and my workhorse 2.71 on my X64 box has a Hexagon emulated UV room.

  • Joe.CotterJoe.Cotter Posts: 3,362
    August 2016 edited August 2016
    DaremoK3 said:
    Knittingmommy:

    You can activate the widgets (gizmo) to be a translate/scale/rotate combination widget by multi-selecting the widgets with SHIFT-LMB.

    You can also do this without shortcuts. If you look to the bottom menubar of the 3D View window where the widget symbol is, you can toggle the xyz looking widget to show the various sub widgets.. the rotate, scale, and translate. If you click on one, then shift click on the other two, it will highlight all three and all three will be active. (This is one I never remember the shortcut key to.) ;)

    About the widget project, I seem to remember someone talking about creating widgets to rotate, zoom and zoom to selection for the screen space as an add-on, but that was a while ago and I haven't seen anything for quite a while on it. I think it would be nice if someone did develop that set of widgets for people that would find more comfortable then shortcut keys.

     


    This particular thing about having multiple things selected points out something. I switched to the Modo theme (under user preferences) because it makes things stand out better for me (and I like the look of it.) In the area of selections, it changes selected items to orange and text boxes are a light grey on a darker grey background. There are themes for most popular alternative packages (and key mappings as well.) There's even a theme for Hexagon.

    Blender_MODO_theme.jpg
    1279 x 778 - 113K
    Post edited by Joe.Cotter on August 2016
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    August 2016
    Gedd said:
    DaremoK3 said:
    Knittingmommy:

    You can activate the widgets (gizmo) to be a translate/scale/rotate combination widget by multi-selecting the widgets with SHIFT-LMB.

    You can also do this without shortcuts. If you look to the bottom menubar of the 3D View window where the widget symbol is, you can toggle the xyz looking widget to show the various sub widgets.. the rotate, scale, and translate. If you click on one, then shift click on the other two, it will highlight all three and all three will be active. (This is one I never remember the shortcut key to.) ;)

    About the widget project, I seem to remember someone talking about creating widgets to rotate, zoom and zoom to selection for the screen space as an add-on, but that was a while ago and I haven't seen anything for quite a while on it. I think it would be nice if someone did develop that set of widgets for people that would find more comfortable then shortcut keys.

     


    This particular thing about having multiple things selected points out something. I switched to the Modo theme (under user preferences) because it makes things stand out better for me (and I like the look of it.) In the area of selections, it changes selected items to orange and text boxes are a light grey on a darker grey background. There are themes for most popular alternative packages (and key mappings as well.) There's even a theme for Hexagon.

    Hitting the period, iirc, focuses the viewport on the selected vert/face/line item. It can zoom in too, although if it doesn't it means zooming in will focus more accurately; that seems to do what you suggesting?

  • Joe.CotterJoe.Cotter Posts: 3,362
    August 2016 edited August 2016
    nicstt said:

    Hitting the period, iirc, focuses the viewport on the selected vert/face/line item. It can zoom in too, although if it doesn't it means zooming in will focus more accurately; that seems to do what you suggesting?

    Yes, I use the period key for zooming to selected all of the time, and it works great. It was just a comment for those that would prefer to not use shortcuts. The zero key for viewing through the selected camera is also a 'basic' key imo, although an alternative is to set up a separate small window that is always viewing through the camera. (* number pad zero and period keys btw.)

    Post edited by Joe.Cotter on August 2016
  • Joe.CotterJoe.Cotter Posts: 3,362
    August 2016 edited August 2016
    DaremoK3 said:

     (Gedd is a seasoned veteran)

    Thanks for the compliment, but I'm still learning also. Blender is such a full featured piece of software that it's hard to become a seasoned veteran. That's why communities such as this where we can share are so helpful. :)

    Post edited by Joe.Cotter on August 2016
  • Joe.CotterJoe.Cotter Posts: 3,362
    August 2016 edited August 2016

    Referring back to the sculpting in Blender convesation earlier, here is something people might be interested in if they decide to play with sculpting. It's not remesh, but it's pretty powerful. Some might even like it better. ;)

    How to Retopo a Head in a Few Minutes With bsurfaces and the Grease Pencil by Jose Antonio Molinero Reina

    I have to do more playing with this to make a full assessment of it, but it appears to be powerful enough for me to rethink my "model the low polly and use sculpting just for details" to considering sculpting then retopoing in some cases.

    Remember, you can get these at my Pinterest boards.

    Post edited by Joe.Cotter on August 2016
  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996
    August 2016
    DaremoK3 said:

    lx:

    Two seconds, huh?  I did it in one...

    This was to illustrate a point that the default Animation Timeline is needed for more than just animation, and more directed towards newbies (Gedd is a seasoned veteran), or those who would like to try Blender without being discouraged by those who continue to perpetrate the UI as some unwieldy beast when the truth is just the opposite.

     

    I'm one of the advanced UI-ests that some find customizing to my extent daunting.  I customize with Python scripting, and am working on one in the scope of Sensei Format, and Fluid Designer with a focus on Marvelous Designer emulation for cloth simulation.  Mostly, right now, I am emulating Hexagon, and my workhorse 2.71 on my X64 box has a Hexagon emulated UV room.

    That's some fast menu searching.

     

    My point was that for a beginner "I created a separate layout for times I need it for x" is too complicated. What a beginner really needs to know is how to rearrange the windows (making fewer, making more) and that they can assign them to anything they want. When I first opened Blender that was about all I could do - drag the canvas wondering why I couldn't select anything and keep making more and more windows by accident until I had to consult the manual.

  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996
    August 2016
    Gedd said:

    Referring back to the sculpting in Blender convesation earlier, here is something people might be interested in if they decide to play with sculpting. It's not remesh, but it's pretty powerful. Some might even like it better. ;)

    How to Retopo a Head in a Few Minutes With bsurfaces and the Grease Pencil by Jose Antonio Molinero Reina

    I have to do more playing with this to make a full assessment of it, but it appears to be powerful enough for me to rethink my "model the low polly and use sculpting just for details" to considering sculpting then retopoing in some cases.

    Remember, you can get these at my Pinterest boards.

    Waiiit Blender has this installed but not enabled by default and doesn't tell anyone it exists? o.o

    I was about to buy RetopoFlow but I'll have to check this out first now, thanks.

  • Joe.CotterJoe.Cotter Posts: 3,362
    August 2016 edited August 2016
    lx said:

    wondering why I couldn't select anything and keep making more and more windows by accident until I had to consult the manual.

    I think that is part of the trial by fire for new users. ;)

    Realistically though, since almost all new users (including me at one time) complain about that it would seem obvious that a redesign of some of that might help remove a barrier to people wanting to get started with Blender.

    Post edited by Joe.Cotter on August 2016
  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996
    August 2016
    Gedd said:
    lx said:

    wondering why I couldn't select anything and keep making more and more windows by accident until I had to consult the manual.

    I think that is part of the trial by fire for new users. ;)

    Realistically though, since almost all new users (including me at one time) complain about that it would seem obvious that a redesign of some of that might help remove a barrier to people wanting to get started with Blender.

    I think it's an awesome design, but also that say there was an intro screen the first time you opened the program that was like "drag here to create a new window, drag here to merge them again" as a once off 'checkbox don't help me again" type thing, imagine how much time and frustration you could save new users without having to redesign a thing. I don't think Blender should try to work the same as every other piece of software the way some say, because once you understand it Blender feels more efficient to me than the usual methods. It's just getting that across to people that could be friendlier in order to draw in more people.

  • KnittingmommyKnittingmommy Posts: 8,191
    August 2016

    @DaremoK3  @Gedd  Thanks for the widget advice guys.  Worked like a charm.  Much better!

     

    DaremoK3 said:

    lx:

    Two seconds, huh?  I did it in one...

    This was to illustrate a point that the default Animation Timeline is needed for more than just animation, and more directed towards newbies (Gedd is a seasoned veteran), or those who would like to try Blender without being discouraged by those who continue to perpetrate the UI as some unwieldy beast when the truth is just the opposite.

     

    I'm one of the advanced UI-ests that some find customizing to my extent daunting.  I customize with Python scripting, and am working on one in the scope of Sensei Format, and Fluid Designer with a focus on Marvelous Designer emulation for cloth simulation.  Mostly, right now, I am emulating Hexagon, and my workhorse 2.71 on my X64 box has a Hexagon emulated UV room.

    When you say emulation, you mean that the whole workspace looks like those programs, but still uses Blender as the workhorse behind it?  I'd be interested to see what a Hexagon emulated room looks like.  Any idea where I would find such a thing?  How exactly does a MD emulation work?  Would you make clothes the same as in MD with pattern pieces or would you still use the method most tutorials for Blender use?  or is it just set up similar for just the cloth simulation part?  I haven't gotten that far in my experiments with clothing in Blender yet, still trying to figure out how to make a decent outfit which might be easier now that I have the widget thing the same as what I'm accustomed to using.

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175
    August 2016
    Gedd said:

    Some things just occurred to me about how tutorials do start immediately into using shortcuts, which upon reflection I think could do some unintentional disservices.

    First, I agree that for a substantial amount of people, possibly the majority, would find it easier to start with tutorials that use menus for everything, other then perhaps rotating the screen around. Even for that I think the shortcuts should be rethought to make them more intuitive. Also, it would be helpful if there were a visual widget or widgets like DAZ has for those that would rather use that.

    Second, starting right into using shortcuts gets people focused on a workflow that minimizes the use of menus to the point that people aren't either as encouraged or as likely to explore the other menu items. This can in turn stint the overall workflow. I see a consistant trend to use a couple basic functions, mostly a repetition of extrude, scale, rotate, of a basic box modeling technique when other techniques such as modifers, curves, etc.. would be substantially more efficient.

    I'm currently taking a few Udemy courses on Blender that do just that. Use just the menus at first and then start introducing the shortcuts. It seems to work better for me since I at least know where to find things if I can't memorize the shortcut right away. In doing so, I normally stumble upon things and since I'm the "I wonder what this button does?" type, I normally end up learning new things that way as well ;).

    Laurie

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175
    August 2016 edited August 2016
    DaremoK3 said:

    lx:

    Two seconds, huh?  I did it in one...

    This was to illustrate a point that the default Animation Timeline is needed for more than just animation, and more directed towards newbies (Gedd is a seasoned veteran), or those who would like to try Blender without being discouraged by those who continue to perpetrate the UI as some unwieldy beast when the truth is just the opposite.

     

    I'm one of the advanced UI-ests that some find customizing to my extent daunting.  I customize with Python scripting, and am working on one in the scope of Sensei Format, and Fluid Designer with a focus on Marvelous Designer emulation for cloth simulation.  Mostly, right now, I am emulating Hexagon, and my workhorse 2.71 on my X64 box has a Hexagon emulated UV room.

    Normally I close the timeline too since I don't do animations either (also do the same in Poser and DS), but at least in Blender one can pull the timeline down and hide all but it's toolbar to gain a bit of screen space :). And yeah, it only takes a sec to make a new window.

    Admittedly, Blender is a very scary program to a beginner like me. My only leg up compared to some other people is that I already know how to model. Having said all that, I'm liking Blender. It has just about every tool one could want in one package (with maybe a few exceptions).

    Laurie

    Blender.JPG
    1920 x 1040 - 227K
    Post edited by AllenArt on August 2016
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,343
    August 2016

    I love your theme AllenArt.  Does that come with Blender or can you share if you can export and import themes? 

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175
    August 2016 edited August 2016
    RAMWolff said:

    I love your theme AllenArt.  Does that come with Blender or can you share if you can export and import themes? 

    Isn't that nice Ramwolff? It's in the latest Blender (and likely previous ones). It's called Science Lab. There's some extra things you need to check to get the transparent tool boxes tho :). If you want those you need to go to the System tab in User Preferences and check "Region Overlap". Remember to save the settings :). I also checked and unchecked a couple other things too in order to make it look that way but at this point I don't know what is part of the theme and what I changed. LOL. If you want it set up like that tho and aren't quite getting it, I can give ya my settings.

    Laurie

    Post edited by AllenArt on August 2016
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,343
    August 2016

    Oh goodie.  Thanks so much Laurie!  laugh

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,847
    August 2016
    DaremoK3 said:

    lx:

    Two seconds, huh?  I did it in one...

    This was to illustrate a point that the default Animation Timeline is needed for more than just animation, and more directed towards newbies (Gedd is a seasoned veteran), or those who would like to try Blender without being discouraged by those who continue to perpetrate the UI as some unwieldy beast when the truth is just the opposite.

     

    I'm one of the advanced UI-ests that some find customizing to my extent daunting.  I customize with Python scripting, and am working on one in the scope of Sensei Format, and Fluid Designer with a focus on Marvelous Designer emulation for cloth simulation.  Mostly, right now, I am emulating Hexagon, and my workhorse 2.71 on my X64 box has a Hexagon emulated UV room.

    ...but, can you move around the workspace like in Hexagon with just a pointing device and no keyboarding?

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