It's not V4 customers DAZ needs to capture.
ColemanRugh
Posts: 511
V4 has everything she could ever want and then some. More than any DAZ character ever made. If these sales are to help the Runtimedna vendors I get it. If it's to try to capture the last V4 stragglers... that wagon has rode out of town a long time ago.
The V4 buyers got hooked on Genesis 2 female. Then quick as a sneeze DAZ went to Genesis 3. Then another sneeze... everything IRAY.
Sloooooooooow it down. Just slow it down a tad. DAZ is always in a hurry to change it up all the time. It's why Daz Studio is constantly being updated.
You're now selling stuff to folks who made the jump to G2F but there's very little for her because DAZ jumped to the next thing so quickly. And IRAY has me thinking about Poser more and more. Everything high resolution and with IRAY shaders. Deal breakers.
Slow down.
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Comments
After all... who want's more and better functionality? Or improved figures? Or realism when needed?
I mostly use G2F/M, but I like earlier stuff for cool skins and occasional morphs I can migrate with GenX2.
I don't need a Hi Def Mike7 using IRAY waiting a week for the render to end. Nor the newest Daz Studio update where the content library just disappears and you have to CONSTANTLY update the damn content manager... because they rushed it out to have the public Beta test the screw ups they missed... which doesn't happen with actual PRO software. I have DAZ Studio Pro... it should be PRO... not 'forever beta'. Wait, it's the user's problem - something they did wrong because they didn't update from Daz Studio 4.9.555.666.777 that was updated 5 hours ago. Can the user please keep up with the hourly updates of this PRO software?
But, you are right Chuckdozer. You are right. In you're snarky way - you are right.
I'm with you Timmins.William. I use 'base' everything and using mainly Genesis1 and 2 with everything.
@Wolf359 - because not everyone can afford the computer specs demanded by an IVAN 7 hi def morphs with IRAY in a populated scene... animated ( holy crap! - you doing that? I doubt it ) unless the customer has tons of money to spend... and I spend a lot already... it must be going to a very very posh customer base here.
I mean the customer has tons of money to spend on the hardware to drive the ultra hi res stuff being sold here storewide all the sudden. It's like it went from hobbyist to a production company spending level overnight
Do you mean pro software like Poser - cause I lost the library in my version of Poser 10 after an update and have never been able to get it back, and isn't PP11 on its 5 SR already.
Also I don't have a fancy high powered new computer I just learn to work with what I've got, personally I would hate to see Daz stop implementing improvements into DS, however hard it might be for me to use them.
However it's the customers that drive the demand, so if customers didn't want better figures and iray shaders none of the new stuff would sell and we'd still be using the older generation figures and more 3Delight sets. As Wolf said everyone is free to set their own pace; however, it wouldn't be fair to ask others to slow down because you feel the pace is too fast for your needs.
I'm not a v4/m4 fan personally but I liked the alien pod bundle in the store today. Kinda been wanting some cybernetic props and those look useful. In general my preferred generation is Genesis 3 so I don't spend much time looking back. But the more the merrier.
Poser is like a Ford Shelby Mustang with no frills... but you can make it drive as fast as you can. Daz Studio is like a Cadillac with power everything. It needs the meta data in so and so. It's why you get the 'Duplicate ID' warning all the time. But they tell you... it's YOU... you did something wrong. Not because they're cranking out updates like mad and spitting it out to the public. I've never had a library disappear on me in Poser. It's usually a Windows thing... or antivirus.
With the store the aggravation is that the new norm is to keep pushing the newest thing then push out the next newest thing... but it seems without regard for the cost to the custoimer all of the sudden. And I see DAZ doing all these Mike4/Vicki4 sales and wondering if they get that no one is buying that stuff anymore. It's like when Vicki3 came out... and you're selling to the Posette crowd... and that hanger on crowd of Posette... was never buying anything to begin with. This store is moving so fast they';ve lost track of who their prime customers are and what they want to buy because the store and vendors are pushing the newest stuff so fast to new buyers... leaving long-term buyers sitting in the stands confused
No - the store pushes IRAY no matter what because they BOUGHT a license for it and need to make a profit from that investment ( regardless of customer needs) and the store pushes IRAY. Lie to me sweetly and tell me business happens without investment and profit in kind. I applaud you're never ceasing support for DAZ Male M3dia. One would think you were getting paid yourself to defend them.
While I do agree that advancement simply for the sake of advancement is unnecessary and annoying, I can tell you that form my perspective that isn't what we're looking at here.
If you really, really want the figure to do something, and it can't (or struggles to) and you know how to solve it, then it is worthy of looking at adnvancing. Genesis 2 really struggled with good expressions. The teeth looked weird. The hands and feet needed to be improved. The spine and overall core struggled to show certain poses and movements. The ability to leverage the figure in other software platforms left a lot to be desired as it was so off from many standards of 3D software.
We knew how to fix those things. We knew how to make a figure that could be more expressive, more realistic, and move better. I don't hink that was a wrong step.
Similarly, if you look at the general quality of renders in the Gallery pre Iray vs. Post Iray it has hard to argue with the improvement.
As for the changes that 4.9 brings over 4.8, and the move toward Daz Connect, the most common problem that customers contact support with is troubles installing and finding their content. We are (and will continue to) makign improvements to try to make that easier, while we try to balance that wih not hurting the experience of long time customers.
These things are not just advancement for the sake of advancement. They are improvments based on needs. I'm not apologetic that we are always updating. I'd be worried if we weren't.
You stated above... why slow down? ivan is the newest thing. Gather your thoughts and come to the table with an actual argument, my friend. I've watched many posts with you and know you love animation. Give me an example of the "DAZ going for the newest thing" that you support with your money in the last 6 months with high definition characters of your choice... using IRAY rendering... with your animations. Because THAt is my argument... and what you are arguing against. Argue against my point... don't be a veteran who starts arguing about the individual words. We're arguing ideas.. not IVAn or Mike7 or Rune... I'm saying high definition characters... in a populated scene... that is animated... using the IRAY render engine.
No, customers want iray. That's what brought a lot of people over to use DS, combined with Victoria 7. And yes DAZ3D is a business and businesses are supposed to cater to the customers. They won't fill everyone's needs like, like me trying to by another mac computer because it is too thin and underpowered to do my work. That doesn't mean that they are going out of business or not listening to their customer's needs. Most of their customers want thin, light, portable machines and that's what they provide. Are they concerned about my 3D rendering on a mac? Not really because that's not who they are targeting. Can't be mad at them at that though.
I wish I was getting paid. I simply like the guys they make and they're easy for me to make what I want with them. To be honest, if all I saw was a picture of Ryan in a speedo instead of Michael 4 in an ad to try to use, I would still be up in the VIP lounge with all those boys and porn stars, giving them backrubs instead of purchasing licenses for zbrush to make products. ;)
I love DAZ... a lot!! and this is why it makes one so frustrated.
I never intend to use Connect. With the last DAZ Studio update the content library just disappears... all the time. I don't use the Smart Content. I'm using basic elementary based content management and it's worse with the newest update.
I will not but high definiton morphs nor most IRAY shader based characters or sets... I don't have a $5,000 computer.
You guys could milk the hell out of a customer base but you're focused on the next thing. Thank you for responding though. I appreciate it.
I'd bet Daz3D went with Iray because of consumer demand for more realistic renders. The market has been moving to PBR engines, now that cheap consumer hardware is capable of it it's becoming mainstream.
As a 3D hobbyist that started 3 or 4 years ago, all the top artists were saying I had to move to a PBR engine if I wanted better results. I resisted for a while. When I finally did, I was glad I did. You can buy a video card for $200 or less that will smoke what we had just 5 years ago.
Also, to add I almost forgot the gaming industry has also switched to PBRs. Again, consumers want more realism and cheap hardware can provide it.
They wouldn't keep having the v4/m4 sales if not one bought anything during it. Does it sell like it did 8 years ago? No of course not, but it does sell. There is pretty much no hair that can not be fit to genesis 1/2/3 either with auto fit or manually. Many of the clothes can be fit with varying results. I still use the v4 dynamics all the time as well. And lets be honest, at this point it goes on sale so cheap that a bit of fiddling is worth your time.
When you say "the store" what you really mean is the PAs because they are the ones who do pretty much all the production work. And frankly the PAs have no investment what so ever in if Daz paid for Iray. What they do have is an investment in a living wage and these days that means Iray. Not to mention nearly every PA I know much prefers to work with and in Iray. In fact I have never heard a single PA gripe about supporting Iray. Which I can't say is true for 3dl or poser for that matter. Lastly, Iray is clearly what the majority of customers want and are using so it would be foolish to not support it where possible.
By the way, insinuating that a PA is not being honest simply because they are a PA is a flawed assumption. Over the years I have seen it used repeatedly as a reason to refute something someone didn't want to hear rather than being open to what is read.
I edited this because I was being a real rude bastard. My apologies
I apologize for bringing this up. I probably did it with a lot of negative energy. I love DAZ and Daz Studio. I'm just frustrated with the current events and perhaps I am in the extreme minority. Thank you everyone who replied to this thread.
You need to realize and accept that new things will surface as time moves forward.
Daz chose Iray as their new standard rendering engine. You need to accept that and you do have the choice of staying with 3Delight.
It's same with other applications as well. Recent Poser released a new rendering engine and Blender chose a new rendering engine in 2012 also. They still give you a choice of using their old engines.
I personally don't see a huge deal with Daz leaning toward Iray. It's not like they are removing 3Delight, yet anyway, and I am leaning toward Iray also.
I'll take angst over ambivalence :)
It's tempting to continue trying to talk it out but I got my true answer with DAZ Steve. He answered for the store. All else here is just us blowing hot air back and forth. Thanks Sura_tc!
Why do are we seeing V4 stuff on sale? BECAUSE IT STILL SELLS.
I, for one, am making out like a fat rat today. I use V4 almost exclusively. Yes, I have all of the genesis versions. No, I don't like any of them as much as I like my V4 figure with all those damned morphs and poses (extremely important) I've bought over the years.
And no, I'm not ready to relearn Daz, AGAIN, just for Iray. I've finally gotten to where my results with 3DL are what I want, and unless forced, I am not about to change it now. So why 'update' and 'upgrade' when what I have now is what I and my clients want?
It's also not because my system 'can't handle it'. I have a new Alienware. I use 3DL because I like it. I use V4 because I like her. And Daz and some PAs will be glad of it this weekend, lol.
You blew me off, DAZ Steve. That's how I took it. No ambivalence.
Alien pod bundle? What alien pod bundle???
I think you took my comment wrong. I'm saying I understand you're upset. You're upset because you care. I would rather have people care, even if we don't agree than to have people just not care at all. That's what I mean by prefering angst over ambivlance.
And they took away the blue highlight in Content Library that some of us used to catagorise our content, making it much harder for us to find and catagorise our purchases, especially 3rd Party content. How does that help us?
My apologies Steve. I wish I could delete this whole post. I came to it with a lot of negative energy and I jumped on folks and you. My bad.
I'm not saying that upgrades are painless. I thinkw e actually created a LOT of problems in the content library in 4.9. But 4.9.1, 4.9.2, and 4.9.3 are taking steps to help. There will be further improvements as well. (edited to include correct version numbers:)
Steve