Sapphire & the Coloured Girls
xyer0
Posts: 6,408
I was waiting for one of the usual suspects to post something commending Raiya on her most recent beauty, Sapphire, but no one has. When Eva 7 followed Victoria 7, there was a lot of talk about the relative paucity of non-Caucasian characters, to which I added my voice. However, while using Fixmypcmike's brilliant "My Products" bookmarklet, I see Sapphire HD, P3D Adele, Brook for Genesis 3 Female(s), & Lynsey for Genesis 3 Female(s), not to mention The Many Faces of Nelly, which has a golden tan alternate skin that would be suitable for Latinas or light-skinned black females. FWSA Rahele HD for Olympia 7, Maret for Victoria 7, Amandla for Teen Josie 7, EJ Etta for Genesis 3 Female(s), & Raiya's Kelly for Victoria 7 round out the list. This gives us all but the darker tones, and the series of characters from Monique's lineage covers those tones thanks to CaymanStudios's Legacy UVs for Genesis 3. With his corresponding V4 utility, all of the shades that were available then become available now. And he's doing Victoria 5 after he finishes the M4 to G3M version; so, there will be a way to use all skins from V3 to G2F on G3F.
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Comments
Well honestly, Sapphire looks very Caucasion to me and I'd guess from the Sapphire name she might be from the Kashmir. There have always been plenty of dark skins, tanned skins, and ethnicity morphs. It's up to the customers to use them in their art work. I'd like to see some traditional Kashmir clothing.
Remember that the majority of Indians, in particular those from Kashmir, are caucasian. Naturally there are facial differences from European's, but they are much closer to caucasian looks rather than the mongloid features from people further east (China, Thailand etc). Skin tone for Indians is naturally different from Europeans (particularly south India where the tone is darkest).
I was just guessing based on the name and I know to a degree in general about those things you spoke of but I don't fret about not knowing exactly as it's why would I know exactly? I couldn't begin to guess without the Sapphire hint the character's ethnicity and I may be wrong about the character being from Kashmir but hey, it's a DAZ model. I couldn't guess accurately in real life either so the modeler shouldn't fret too much about that. I know more than average because of my genealogical research and the associated forensic archaelogical DNA research but I stay away from those forums and leave the facts to forensic archealogical matches software on GEDMatch. And the results the SW can be biased although they are getting rather good at weeding that bias out with enough DNA population samples. The bias isn't intentional but the nature of making for can't find what you don't know about. GEDMatch is sort of neat. There are some hobbyists that are very good at puzzling through that DNA evidence though and often precede scientists at making the correct interpretation of the forensic data.
It is a very pretty model though.
Sapphire is a beautiful and striking model, but I honestly didn't get any ethnic vibe from her at all, other than her having tanned skin. But then it is all in the eye of the beholder, as they say :)
OT but I think that My Products bookmarklet is Cyberfox's.
And my first impression of Sapphire was; that'ill do great for polynesian-european. But that's just what I'm most used to seeing around me.
Initially, I was a little torn over this figure. I am a huge fan of Raiya and her characters on one hand. On the other hand, she looked preliminarily like a black character (which Raiya does a beautiful job of, incidentally) and the name "Sapphire" is a slur name for black women in the US : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angry_Black_Woman. Rarely, in Daz3d's history, a slur has slipped through accidently (the artists are international and don't always know that a term used in their country is impolite in another through no fault of thier own), the product gets pulled and feelings hurt. From this discussion, I am guessing she is more likely some other ethnicity where the name isn't a problem and the quality is superlative. As redz says, she is beautiful and striking.
I'm from the Southern US and didn't know this.
I get the Mediterranean/Aegian feel from this character myself.
I think her features are sort of stylized so tough to peg an ethnicity on her. She has the typical large eyes big lipped dolly look that is popular in many stores and isn't race specific. If I had to choose I'd say she looks mixed race part black. But tough to tell with figures that are stylized.
I was going to pick her up but changed my mind. She looks a bit youthful to me. I like females with a more age and maturity.
I knew about "Sapphire;" although it may be a slur when used by a non-black, blacks themselves (mainly the older generations) use it jokingly or affectionately, (much like another term). Whatever Sapphire's supposed racial background, I'm just glad to get another high-quality vendor-made skin texture for non-white characters so I can make my stories look as diverse as possible. As has been pointed out, that skintone can be used for many ethnicities. Once Skin Builder for Genesis 3 comes out, I can easily fix the eyebrows so I can use it for males.
I had no idea about that sapphire thing, so I've learned something new today too.
But I think it's difficult to name someone/-thing without someone somewhere taking offence to it, especially in a global community. It wasn't that long ago there was a pose in a promo that caused commotion here as it was offensive in someone's part of the world.
And off topic, but still related, is my favourite story on this subject, about the car brand that had to rename a model of theirs for the swedish market as the name here was a vulgar word for the female "anatomical element"...
Well jeez, the DC comic series "Star Sapphire: Blackest Night" should probably have caused a small riot then.
I thought calling someone a "gem" was a compliment. So I'm confused. But I guess I have never understood the Southern U.S.
Serene Night, I am actually quite pleased with that she isn't so ethnically defined; as someone ethnically ambiguous, she is a lovely woman with a distinctive name rather than a black character with a disturbing name. I think I was most aware of the name from a very famous book of film criticism that I read in the 70's: "Toms, Coons, Mulattoes, Mammies & Bucks; An Interpretive History of Blacks in American Films by Donald Bogle"... America is pretty complicated too since we used two separate systems for slavery: Plaçage with all of that negro, mulatto, quadroon, octaroon business and Hyperdescent with the one-drop rule (you were black if any ancestor was black)... Other countries retain elements of either systems have use words that would be considered very rude here. I have to search the store to see if that tee shirt that would commonly be called a "wife beater" here in America but probably a tank top in Europe...
Huh. I never heard of that term, either.
This is an interesting read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotypes_of_African_Americans
For what it's worth, the Sapphire model looks pretty cool, does not explicitly look African American (I mean, she could be a bunch of different ethnicities).
(Mind you, I'm not doing Genesis 3 right now, but ... if I was, I'd want this)
Thanks, timmins.william. It is amazing to me the level of cruelty in these sterotypes. It makes me at all the racism I don't experience as a white woman.
I actually prefer mixed-raced characters. I'd actually like to see more male characters who are. but I wouldn't say is so much ethnically undefined as being stylistically rather ordinary in shape.
There is no crime in being ignorant and privileged, only for turning away when you find out.
A quick render with Raiya's Kelly!
I'm really sorry and also quite shocked. I'm from Germany and had no idea that the name Sapphire might have a racial meaning. I thought that the name of a gemstone was just a nice, 'neutral' name for a pretty girl and it never crossed my mind to actually google it and check out if there was more to it. I'll talk to Daz about this.
Concerning her ethnicity: She definitely mixed-race and somewhat stylized. When creating her, I always imagined her in a fantasy- rather than a real world setting.
No need to apoloize; as always, your products are an instant buy. Our conversation in the thread was actually politely civil and our knowledge that you have been more than gracious in creating diverse characters made it much easier to discuss the topic without thinking that the name would affect us buying the product. I am very happy with it and she is gorgeous (she looks like she could be a member of my family i.e. afro-celtic)!
I'm not aware of any unpleasant overtones in the UK; I considered it a nice name, a little unusual perhaps, but far better than names used recently for children - poor little sods. Now sod could be taken badly (but is unlikely to be), but was a common term at one time; a sod is a piece of earth with grass attatched for those unaware.
People find words ( some of specific ones) offensive; personally I'd sooner go off the intent behind a word. In this case Raiya didn't mean, and was totally unaware of any negative connotations, and this is frequently the case.
I've lived in the US all my life, and never knew about the term. I figured that using the name of a pretty gem was appropriate for a pretty lady.
I did pick up on your creation being mixed race; she looks a lot like one of my cousins.
Thank you, Raiya, for all the beautiful characters you have made and are making. You are the gem! You are the jewel of photorealistic texture PAs. Keep up the great work, and thanks for providing so many different shades of beauty. Now, please, for some honey, caramel, and cafe au lait men.
Hmmm, quote doesn't seem to be working? This was suppsoed to be a quote of Raiya's post!
It's a lovely name, and she looks to be a lovely character and skin texture (I'll know as soon as I get her downloaded). I'll have to admit I never knew that Sapphire could be used as has been mentioned, but then I'm not American and not female and, I hope, not racist! I haven't read of it's derivation, but to me it's almost the exact opposite of 'damning iwth faint priase' and goes more to the stpidity of those coining and using the term than any thing else! "Yeah, I'm gonna insult you, I'm gonna call you a name that is that of a beautiful gem stone whose usual colour is nothing like your skin tone ... yeah, haha, take that!" ;) In other words, please keep the name, unless you really feel you must change it.
@maxamillion You missed Taia and Samira.
@Raiya Sapphire is beautiful and don't feel bad about your choices.
On the name choice topic, I think it's pointless to worry about someone being offended by a name or pose or whatever. The word being used in a racist way by some Americans in the past does not change its other meanings nor present meaning. The character doesn't even have any of the correct characteristics for it to fit, so the only stretch anyone could manage is "her skin is a bit dark" which is awful profiling itself. So long as you aren't using the name in a racially slurring way now, it's irrelevant.
Words change meanings all the time. Boys were called girls in the 16th century. As recently as a hundred years ago, boys that were now boys were still dressed in manly pink and girls in the girlish blue. Bad means bad but bad also means good. Calling someone a monkey is apparently some horribly racist term in America, but in England and other places it means you're calling someone silly (no racial association at all.) It's also the term for a specific species of animal. What matters is how you use a word, not what that word is.
Yes, I know. I haven't purchased them yet because I'm waiting to get the Mega Bundle once it is no longer a New item and can be discounted. Those are beautiful skintones, but that PA makes textures that are evidently meant to look like a skilled photographer Photoshopped them into pseudo-perfection.
Nobody's offended by Sapphire's name, and young black Americans by and large are just as ignorant of this term as are non-Americans. Thanks everyone for an interesting discussion.
Ix: I think there is a reasonable middle ground between 'ignore all offense' and 'hide under your desk twitching.' :)
The only thing remotely "offensive" here is the title of this thread. "Coloured" is a more widely known term and is concidered a racial slur. :P
Thanks for your support and loyalty, guys! I know that I'm not the most visible PA in the forums (due to lack of time) but that doesn't mean I don't read and appreciate your comments.