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I saw this and I don't usually post but i felt I had to. I am a black woman and I don't find "Sapphire" is a slur name for black women. I don't think that the vendor meant it that way. It's and obsure refference. I work in a large urban hospital in New York City, and the amount of black females with that name is too large to count. I'm not offended and it seems like a large amount of the black population isn't either.
I love the Sapphire character. Raiya keep up the good work.
And to those of you who don't think she looks like a black woman, she looks black (or african american) to me. I think that alot of people think that black women all have dark skin and heavy features, and that is not the case. We come in all shades of brown. My sister and I aren't the same color brown and neither one of us is the same color brown as our parents. So I guess what I'm saying is don't judge by what you think a black woman should look like we are just like everybody else.
You're right, Tigerlily, thanks for posting. Black women come in all shades of brown, and all shades of red, and all shades of yellow, and all shades of olive, and all shades of peach/pink.
A quick use (DS4.9 and Iray):
May I add a quick clarification: I'm am not arguing that the artist or Daz3d was either intentionally or unintentionally using the name as in either a malignant or intentional way. Unfortunately, partly because of the multinational nature of the store, there have been some rare instances where a product was pulled because the marketing group was unaware with the implications of a name of a product. I am fascinated by Tigerly37 running into women with the name. One of my interests is how common are various names and the statistics for the name "Sapphire" are so low that the name doesn't even show up in most of the databases which suggests less than 5000 out of a US population of over 300 million. I include a little quote so that the historical context is clearer ("Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. George Santayana"):
"The name Sapphire is loaded with racist overtones, which is why the author Romona Lofton uses Sapphire as her pseudonym. The cultural association of Sapphire with the image of a "belligerent black woman", goes back to the 1920s-1950s radio/television series Amos 'n' Andy. In it's time, Amos 'n' Andy was extremely popular and unfortunately it popularized racial caricatures of blacks. The character of Sapphire was a "domineering, aggressive, and emasculating shrew" and that characterization became popularly associated with the name Sapphire. I'd think very hard before naming a child with such a loaded name."
My original comment was more about seeing the name which is exceedingly rare here in the West Coast for black people and so connected to some tropes in the arts...
Funny, I'm black, 50 years old and from the Southern US, and I didn't know about the stigma behind the name. I think maybe it would be great if the name were not connected to such a meaning any more, because the number of people who would even associated is probably relatively small these days.
I'm.. 42, white (female), and have lived in 5 US states, including the mid-south, and I've never heard of Sapphire being used as anything derogitory. But from your little history lesson I gather the traditional term repsresents a strong black woman that doesn't take crap from anyone... yeah.. real derogitory... (that was sarchasm)
Exactly. I work in Pediatrics and we get all kinds of names. I remember a little girl from the clinic, we asked her how she got such a pretty name and she proudly said she was her mommy's jewel. So I think that black people who are giving their children the name aren't associating it with that meaning . They are just giving their child a name they love, which is how it's suppose to be.
;
I think no one should be stigmatized by a name they didn't choose though I would give the side-eye to anyone with the last name of Manson who thought naming their child Charles would be a good idea... I am a tad suprised that the stereotype was not well known. In my circles, that was a lot of discussion about the stereotype of the Angry Black Woman in reference to topics as diverse as Michelle Obama, Beyonce and her Formation video, and a current one about a comedienne from a tv show Saturday Night Live, Leslie Jones, and her portrayal of in a Ghostbusters remake (http://www.inquisitr.com/2851130/ghostbusters-is-a-disgrace-and-its-not-because-of-the-all-female-cast-opinion/). The stereotype has been name-checked from Youtube (
), to the Root (http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/09/the_angry_black_woman_stereotype_s_long_history.html), universities (http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/sapphire/), the Guardian newspaper in Britain (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/08/stereotype-angry-black-girls-racial), parodied by performers as diverse as Niki Minaj, Rihanna, etc...
There is probably a place of balance that doesn't require forgetting history, perhaps?
I don't think we should forget history.. but this example has little relivance today.. in the time period it was used as derogitory woman with their own opinions who weren't afraid to let others know them were considered angry/bitchy/etc/etc.. exactly what you said Sapphire meant. Today it's called wearing the pants, being strong, being a feminist, or just a type-A personality. So if you want to name a daughter Sapphire in the hopes that she will grow up to be an emotionally strong and independant woman I think that's fabulous.
Fisty, I'd agree with you if the stereotype was one of feminist strength but it is more of a long American trope of black women as animals who are either motherly (Mammie), seductress (Jezebel), or shrew (Sapphire) which is unfortunately very much in play. Its context is different for women of other races; the expectations are different; I once thought about how to explain the film 9 to 5 to my grandmother who had worked and done man's work since she was a child. The film's premise requires that you emphathize with characters of a certain race and class where they were not expected to work in the outside world.
Nonetheless, this isn't knowldege that is universal in America let alone the world. I would not expect people around the world to know it though I would hope that Daz3d's marketing people have access to Wikipedia to occasionaly check a name or two. And I reserve the right to roll my eyes if any black family in America names their little boy Rastus
!
The gemstone descriptor Sapphire may have had a slang meaning 100 years ago, but it doesn't today.
I have some advice.
Stop searching for reasons to be angry and upset and you will find fewer of them.
Living a life of hatred and animosity is a life wasted.
I'm sure you can find many slang terms in many languages over the last 7,000 years of humanities written history that you can choose to be angry over. Refusing to perpetuate those slang terms isn't forgetting history, it's refusing to be part of the hate that wrought then in the first place.
well said, icecrmn!!!!!!! my sentiments exactly!
The Amos and Andy show on CBS was 1953 (roughly the time my parents were married) not 100 years ago....
EDIT:
You know, I'm not going to go there. All I will say is that I found the initial history parts of this thread very informative. I was unaware of the history associated with the name; understandable, since the Amos and Andy show has been off the air longer than I've been alive, and buried by various association nearly as long. I didn't find the product itself at all offensive, and really like Raiya's products. I found the early parts of this discussion very interesting.
And I'm not saying anything beyond that right now.
If think I am precipitating something going from a polite conversation to something less pleasant so I will mention that I'm pleased with my purchase and thank Raiya again for her beautiful characters and drop out.
Fun thread?
From what I see this is a mistunderstanding at most. Nothing here really worthy of getting too upset about so long as we remain focused on what matters, which is to bring out the best in our artists and our community.
Most of us belong to one demographic or other, and for that reason we are especially sensitive to references made about people like ourselves. So it doesnt surprise me too much that women are more aware of this particular naming reference than males. I don't think people need to look for reasons to be offended, most of us are already on guard for issues that relate to us. For example most Women are more concerned about unwanted sexual advances than most men. I dont think it's because women are anxiously looking for reasons to be offended, its simply because statistically women are the more likely targets of such advances so they SHOULD be more on guard regarding such issues. As African Americans are more likely targets of racism, it is only natural that this group is more sensitive to issues related to racism than other groups. Cause and effect.
And as any group of long term injustice well knows, you have to call out each and every single example of misconduct if you ever want things to change. So again, there's nothing wrong with speaking up when you feel offended. Just keep in mind that offense is not always intentional, and to always be willing to forgive and move on.
I'm indeed black (African American), I'm 41 years old and I was completely unaware of this Sapphire reference until this thread. I don't know of many black people born after the 60's who ever actually WATCHED or listened first hand to an episode of Amos and Andy outside of an African American Studies classroom. I've never seen Amos and Andy advertised on Netflix or Nickelodeon...this is no longer a relevant social concern. All exposure to that sort of nonsense would do after all these years is to further perpetuate it in todays society, and to re-open wounds that time might have already begun to heal. Not everyone has actively studied every single injustice of history. There are a lot of bad things that have happened and that are happening today that people know nothing about. This is good in some ways because it allows us to move beyond it, but bad in other ways because some people would be likely to repeat these injustices simply out of ignornace of their prior existence. Still, the benefit of moving on is valuable. Like spring cleaning, maybe its good to throw out the stuff that we simply don't need anymore. There are so many offenseive references that people have fogotten about completely.
I was in a play once called "Dutchman" by Amiri Baraka. This play is a two character cast and it is set on a subway train in NYC in the 60's. Just a black male and a white female. I learned a few new words of hate. Until that experience, I had no idea that the there existed a term "ofay," and that the word "ofay" was a durogutory term for white people used by blacks at the time. I mean seriously, does anyone today know what ofay means and when is the last time anyone actually used that stupid term?..,.especially with the intent to cause offense to another person? Before I'd been taught this new word of hate I was free from its influence. It was powerless over me. If I had seen a promotion for the new Ofay flavored Coffee at Starbucks, I would have wondered what kind of fruit an ofay was. I would have no reason to associate it with negativity, because to me it is just a new word with no strings attached. So it seems quite likely to me that the parties in question had no intention to cause offense.
If a male character was released that was named "Sambo," I'm pretty sure I'd freak out. But you'd be surprised how many people have no idea what Sambo means in 2016. If the artist was unaware of the meaning of the name, I'd gladly explain it to them, and would even help them to come up with a more appropriate name. And I'm fully convinced it is a matter of ignornace of the meaning, because all of us have better things to do than to go around being offensive to people for no good reason. Most of us aren't Donald Trump. I digress...
Black people in particular are often called out for inventing admittedly very strange names for their children, especially in recent years. Naming a child after a polarity on a compass seems just wrong to me. Yet, while it strikes me as odd, I can also see the benefit of starting over, picking a new name that has no historical or cultural baggage, to start anew.
Let's hope that indeed the name Sapphire was intended as a reference to a rare and beautiful gem stone, and be impressed with the obviously awesome quality of the content.
And before anyone comes out and says that I always come to Daz's defense, I want you to know that if I truly felt Daz had been remiss I would surely call them out on it. I've often been critical of Daz and have even stopped posting in the forums for the most part because of disagreements with the moderators and the policies of the forums in general. I speak for no one but myself, I just want to focus on the positive, and even when dealing with negative things, to seek the most positive outcome possible for all parties as equals. I dont think anyone needs to be given a spanking, no, just some simply conversation is all that is due.
Best to all.
This topic is really not appropriate for the Daz 3D forums because of the potential to offend, so may we please ask everyone to drop it. If you have concerns about the product name, please submit a support ticket so that Daz 3D marketing can take it into consideration.
Sapphire: Greek: σάπφειρος; sappheiros, 'blue stone'
I went for purple rather than blue though. Here's the Sapphire Bundle.
Now please be gentle with her, she seems to be shy. It took me 5 tries to get the image to attach...
Beautiful render isidorn! Cool chiaroscuro too. Thanks for sharing.
Never mind
I was instantly drawn to the figure (as I am with most of Raiya's beauties) because I thought she looked a teensy like Rhianna, who is from Barbados and whose father is part Irish (and therefore definitely mixed race). I had no idea about the Sapphire thing, but I am of the belief that's its only a big deal if people make it a big deal ;).
Cara is far and away my favorite character of ANY Genesis variety - her delicate beauty and skin color beat all the other characters hands-down ;).
Laurie
I concur. Here's a 3Delight test render of Cara's skin with a custom face morph.
Riaya, your characters always have unique facial morphs and excellent skin. I bought Sapphire right away. Excellent work!
This character is unbelievably beautiful
.