Modeling Objects in Carrara - Q&A - Come One and All

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  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634
    edited July 2016

    Up against a wall. I did run into a problem, of course. I think I know what didn't get done properly... this was in Shading Domains. I've choosen to try a simpler approach to an inner and outer wall as 3DAGE suggests... I did however change the type of room the walls are for to one encounters in office buildings, hotels and elsewere that window frames are not used... I can move onto them later.

    1st pic: I've highlighted a few places that are not right at all. The Shading Domain "Glass" I can change to any colour and the glass itself does not change. That is likely due to me not having the glass polymesh selected at the time I tried to assign it. I added a new shader, shader 1, I believe and gave it a clear glass shader to get it to work... why it is a Global Shader I don't know. I'm thinking that it is since I renamed Texture 0 to Walls and not used it... left it set to None.

    2nd pic: Includes instructions on how I connected one wall to the other by connecting vertices between them. Not necessary if you are adding a frame since the space would be covered.
    Note: When using the Bridge Tool a few of he polygons were not filled so I just highlighted the area and chose Fill Pologons. I don't rember if this was only for the first 2 window openings that I did or also after discovering all vertice for the opening could be done at once. Either way it was only one or 2 polygon for at least 2 windows.

    3rd pic: Finally sucess. The window glass is now transparant. Before it was not.

    Note that the entire project is 1 Vertex object.

    Please be patient while I dive deeper into the Vertex Room where I learn something new everytime I venture there.

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  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,575

    The polys you wish to assign should be selected when you add the shading domain (or they won't be assigned). You can always select them later though and assign.

    If you have unused shading domains that you're not going to use, it's good practice to delete them.

    If you delete a shading domain near the top of the list, you'll find that all your shaders have moved and need to be reset. That's because Carrara assigns shaders to a position in the domains list and not to the domain itself (daft, I know)

    When you create geometry via Bridge (or the bevel etc tools), it gets assigned to the first domain in the shading domains list ("Texture 0" if you haven't renamed it). Bear this in mind and reassign should you need to. In your window frame example, since you have split the polys down the middle, I'd assign one side to inner wall and one side to outer. I'm not sure the ledges need a domain of their own.

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    Thanks. Glad you mentioned the Domains shifting when a the top one is deleted. I imagine if you delete one say in the middle of the Domains list add the ones below it would be shifted... that would make sense.

    Oh... the ledges do not have separate domains. Inner Wall and Ledges were assigned to one domain... same way for outer Wall and Ledges. One thing that I did not add is caulking for the inner and outer where window meets the main polymesh which would need either one if they are the same colour or two domains if different.

    I messed up on the window glass. I named only the inner, facing camera, polygon and not all the polygons for the entire window... doh. I should have named the window glass polymesh.

    The project above was just for practice... turned out to be a learning curve in not only tools but also shading domains... I didn't even bother saving the one above since it didn't work out... I do have an original but may start from scratch again for more practice.

    Thanks again for your help.

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634
    edited July 2016

    A fresh start for the wall and a different layout for the window size/location. Did everything basically the same as my earlier try. This time all polymeshs have their own shader domains with no domain left unused. Fooled around with assigning and re-assigning the shader domains... 3 domains total... renamed Texture 0 to Inner walls with ledges... same for Outer walls which are a different domain... finally created one window glass, named the polymesh as well as the polygons created a separate 3rd domain for the window glass. Practice runs now finished... Onto actual room design.

    ToDo List: The method to my madness.

    • Study a few other models and/or architectural design books to get ideas for how far from the floor normal windows are as well as normal door dimensions. This will help for a starting point for the basics. They normally adhere to specific dimensions for different window/door sizes of which there are many for windows but less for doors. A normal window is at the characters eye level, a door high enough for a tall person to walk through easily.
    • Create the wall only first. Save the scene without any window/door openings punched out yet. This will give me a backup should I mess up horribly and need to start over again.
    • Save it also as a version 2 filename to start working on.  It might be best to create all 8 walls first, 4 inner/4 outer, if only designing one room. Then duplicate or copy/paste the blank wall and move it for the outer wall. Do the same for side walls. Name each wall... wall_inner_frt, wall_outer_frt, wall_inner_bk etc. This will allow them to be selected and hidden easily while you work on other walls as well as to assign shader domains to later.
    • Save often to newer version #s before making changes after being sure it is correct first.
    • Before adding too much even the version with the cutouts can be saved as double walled. The polys can either be moved, resized or filled for different designs.

    Makes sense to me... or did I leave something out???... hmm.

    Here is my redesign with windows at a somwhat realistic height.

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  • MystiaraMystiara Posts: 38,107

    stymied by the sweep tool 

     

    lathe tool - no problems smiley

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634
    edited July 2017

    It is very much like Lathe when starting out. The end result is quite different. See my silly example below. In a different thread 3DAGE shows how to use Path Sweep to make a picture frame... I need to find it again.

    Have you watched Carrara Vertex Modeling Tutorial Part 1 as well as Part 2 "Links no longer exist". These both show all the tools and how to use them. In Part 1 sweep is about 1/2 way through video and in Part 2 it is just past halfway... it's also shown elsewhere in one of the them. Be sure to watch both as Part 2 shows an easily fixable problem and how to fix it.

    First draw a path you want something to follow on any plane, left is most easy. Then drop either one of the preset objects or flat circle/square. Highlight that object and click on the Path Sweep tool. It will work on any object. Note that you can draw multipe paths on all planes and then weld them before using it.

    See also my first try at a plantlike stem for a different approach in this discussion on page 4.

    Edit:  for the links that no longer exist I have been adding examples in this thread when they are not shown by others.

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  • MystiaraMystiara Posts: 38,107

    thanks for the links !

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634
    edited August 2016

    Wonders never cease.... found the link mentioned before. http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/1259091/#Comment_1259091 ... my mystake it was for a table top by 3DAGE. Path sweep was used to make it which is a better example than my messy example. Note his example shows the frame of the outer edge of the table top... all that needs to be done is to fill the top poly and tessalate it for the top itself. Hmmm... probably add a bit of Thickness would also help for the top itself.

    Another short but good thread is My First Prop which goes into more detail but not about Path Sweep. Seems no mater where I go I end up learning alot. Still have a long way to go yet.

     

    Post edited by wgdjohn on
  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634
    edited August 2016

    What have I gone and done now??  At it again modeling something new.

    Woke up thinking about a concrete Sidewalk or Street curb with at the corner for where 2 streets meet. After finally starting on it this evening I've included a few pics to show it in progress. While making this I thought of quite a few ways it could be done... Dynamic Extrusion, just dropping a flat rectangle down duplicating it and moving it for using Ruled Surface to connect the two rectangles and a few others that I chose not to try first.

    My reasoning for the method I used was to have more control over the height or thickness of the concrete... you will see that I made this one have a 6" curb... I think they are normally an inch or two shorter. Please excuse me for not making it wheelchair accessible. :)  I thought about that after the fact but it wouldn't be hard to modify the corner I made.  NOTE: Pavement for either Driveways or Sidwalks are not square but rectangular... those can be added later in the same way and settings except I'll want to change them to not be square as the corner. Concrete has a divider, expansion joint, between most sections while others only appear to be sectioned... they are instead beveled, rounded with the proper tool, to give it a sectioned look. Another thing to know is that a driveway or sidwalk also has pitch so the water, rain, can be directed away from a house and off the concrete itself.

    I think I caught someone yawning... Ok, Ok I'll bore you no longer... on with the pics.

    But wait... Forgot to mention that I did have to crease the edges at corners to make it look nice again. If using Fillet you can either use Fillet or Quick Fillet. Don't make fun of the simple concrete shader I just created. :)  Ok now on with the pics.

    Modeling in Carrara is funnnnn!

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  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,575

    In step 2, you can select all the edges you want to remove, then loop and delete in one go. Just saves a bunch of time and repeated steps. smiley

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634
    edited August 2016

    In step 2, you can select all the edges you want to remove, then loop and delete in one go. Just saves a bunch of time and repeated steps. smiley

    Thanks. I experimented with it later last night... holding down the shift key I selected only one polygon's edge at a time from each line of edges, chose loop then dissolve or backspace key and poof they were gone. A huge time saver.

    Post edited by wgdjohn on
  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634
    edited August 2016

    Tips for Sidewalks and other objects.

    • Any sidewalk does not need a bottom or any side which butts up against another object. This includes another side walk part, a building, unseen by grass or any other object.
    • For my sidewalk part that I show earlier it could easily be designed with the connecting sections as one single object.
    • I would also create a single, double and perhaps triple or longer, section for piecing together. Keep in mind that the older the sidewalk/driveway is that sections will tilt/shift and not line up perfectly with other sections. Give the sidewalk some character so it does not appear perfect.
    • There are many different types of curbs. IE: subdivision where the are commonly sloped to direct rain/water, side streets can either be sloped as with subdivisions or have a more vertical look as my example which still needs work.
    • All curbs will have a slope. Some are only sloped at the top outer, street, corner. Some have a continuous slope running from the entire outer edge to the inner edge, yard etc, side. A lot I saw via Google pics are not rounded but have angles which only taper inwards... these may have only a taper near the top while others have 2 tapers one starting from the bottom then tapering, beveling, more at the top.
    • Take into account for older street curbs. Each time the street is resurfaced a bit of the curb height will be shorter.This is especially true when the street is blacktop.
    • Curbs... most are in sections of various lengths.
    • Curb height: This can be anywhere from 4-6 inches. I noticed one tonight which was 4-5". I must keep a tape measure in my car.
    • Don't leave out parking curb or stops that you see in parking lots and around a some buildings. These are easiest to make. Most are simply thin, 6 in at bottom and 3 in at top, rectangles with 8 sides which taper twice on each long side an are flat on the ends... and can be a rather low poly object. If you make one of these don't forget that some if not most show 2 holes on the top face for the rebar. If you want holes you can simply tesselate the 2 polys you choose for their location and then perhaps extrude each towards the bottom. You may even give their poly their own "material" name.
    • I do create an early, not changed version, of the object which has all faces, sides, so that I can always go back an edit any unseen sides out or change it in anyway for an entirely different project and a new design. I usually append the name with name_original or name_vanilla
    Post edited by wgdjohn on
  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634
    edited August 2016

    As TangoAlpha pointed out multiple lines can be selected to save time. The pic below shows how.

    The same is true for multipe polygons. If the polygons end up looping in the wrong direction one method is to select 2 pologons next to each other in the direction you want them to loop in.

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  • MystiaraMystiara Posts: 38,107

    are splines less resource intensive?

    are they better for animation, faster rendering?
     

    thanks smiley

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    Simple Stuff: The Ruled Surface tool

    The pics below show hopefully show how to use the Ruled Surface tool. I created it very quick and the object ain't that great.

    Let me know if you have any questions about any stage of the examples.

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  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,102
    MistyMist said:

    are splines less resource intensive?

    are they better for animation, faster rendering?
     

    thanks smiley

    I'm not aware of any significant differences between vertex objects and spline objects in terms of resource usage and rendering times. Splines are good for certain types of shapes, but I'd hate to model anything highly complex using them.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,309

    Splines are made from two paths,. (shape and length)  the paths are made from vertex coordinates with either a curved or straight line connecting the points,.

    what's stored should be that basic points and lines info,. just like vector graphics.

    polygon models have several vertices for each face in the model,. each vertex is connected to other vertices by edges which form faces.

    so,. there's more memory needed to store all of those vertices.

     

    When it comes to resources,. the more points (vertices) in your model,. the more resources will be used to display and manipuate all of those points.

    that's why it's easier to work with a simple naked Base figure,.or a simple model,. rather than a fully dressed and textured model with lots of morphs.

    When it comes to rendering ,. then the Lighting,shadow. colour, etc are being processed to create the image, and the same principle applies,. the more complex your scene, lighting, models, and their materials,. the longer it'll take to calculate lighting and render the image.

    You can use compositing techniques such as rendering out a image of a detailed scene,.(or using Video / animation) as a "background" then add a detailed figure to an empty scene and use the background image/video. rather than having a detailed scene, with detailed figures, complex lighting,.. and a longer render time.

    I also agree with PhilW splines are the perfect tool for some objects,.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,130
    edited August 2016

    What Phil said. (and what 3DAGE said - got in while I was typing). In support of spline models, what I would emphasize is time savings for support objects that might need a morph or have  a logo on it.  For me, it is much faster to make a beer glass or a rocket engine and put a logo on it in the spline modeler than the vertex modeler primarily because of the uvmapping.  Also, the beveling is much easier to adjust if you change your mind.  Same for placing logos.  You use the layer's list tool to place the rectangle where you want the logo and projection mapping.  With the vertex modeler,I have to fiddle with beveling the edges, getting the uvmaps clean, etc.  However, if you plan to export the model to another program, starting in the vertex modeler probably makes more sense.

     

    Here is an object with rounded ends but a squared off middle portion (maybe a rocket?) with a logo applied.  There are only 5 cross sections, and only two actually needed adjusting.  Placing the logo was just a matter of using the rectangle tool in the shader room.  Quick and easy.  Vertex modeler?  Maybe if you are really good with the smoothing function, this could be modeled as quickly (though I doubt it), but just trying to draw the seams and unfold the uvmap would take longer than the entire spline process.

     

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  • MystiaraMystiara Posts: 38,107

    there some spline objects in native content.  learning how to edit those, sounds like is worth the time  lol

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,130
    edited August 2016

    There are definitely some tricks to using the spline modeler.  Some of the advanced uses that are good to know include

    - combining shapes to poke a hole in your object (windows, doors, swiss cheese holes), use   ARRANGE : COMBINE AS COMPOUND

    - transition from one shape to another sharply, first create multiple sections and go to the transition portion, select the section and use  SECTION : CROSS-SECTION OPTIONS : DISCONNECT FROM NEXT CROSS SECTION, the pull back the next section to same spot and draw the new shape.

    - to fill or empty a cross section, use SECTION : CROSS-SECTION OPTIONS: FILL CROSS SECTION

    - changing symmetry options, use GEOMETRY : EXTRUSION ENVELOPE : (then choose which type of symmetry, if any)

    Post edited by Diomede on
  • pnewhookpnewhook Posts: 70

    Hey all,

    I have a terrain I'd like to export and 3D print.  But I cant export just a surface, it needs to be a 3D object.  Does anyone have an idea of how to have the top face of a cube be a terrain?  Its conceptually simple but I'm having a brain cramp and cant think of a nice way.

    Thanks!

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634
    edited August 2016

    I watched cripeman's Modeling Pipes video tutorial. I was able to follow his instuctions and re-create what he did. Now have some pipes to use in a future project. There are some other videos on YouTube releated to Carrarra Spline modeling.

    Post edited by wgdjohn on
  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634
    edited July 2017
    pnewhook said:

    Hey all,

    I have a terrain I'd like to export and 3D print.  But I cant export just a surface, it needs to be a 3D object.  Does anyone have an idea of how to have the top face of a cube be a terrain?  Its conceptually simple but I'm having a brain cramp and cant think of a nice way.

    Thanks!

    There are a few ways to do this, me thinks. I'd first save it as a Vertex objec, Edit/Convert to other Modeler/Vertex Model. Then load it into the Vertex room where I would add a cube and join the two objects as one single polymesh. Another way, if you have the edges zeroed, would simply be to select all the outer edges and extrude them to make a cube, using Dynamic Extrusion... you probled don't need the edges zeroed but that way sounds easier/quicker to me. I would think that by using Model/Add Thickness you could also extrude it. I've only had 1 encounter with 3D Print which required the object be in .STL format which required polygons to be triangulated, triangles. I don't know if all 3D printers require this.

    Correct me if I'm wrong above... I often am. :)

    Post edited by wgdjohn on
  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,102

    Just building on what wgdjohn has suggested, once converted to a vertex object you could try adding a little thickness, you should see that the upper surface is still selected.  Move that up so that the upper and lower surfaces are well away from each other, then select and scale the lower surface to 0% in the z-axis.  You can then scale and move the upper surface to give the effect you want. I just tried it and it took only a minute or two.

  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,575

    I'd go with what Phil said, but with a little tweak:

    Add negative thickness. This'll ensure the extended surface goes down, and all your normals are pointed outwards. Only add the defaut amount, otherwise you'll get the terrain start to do some squirrely things (basically, just put a minus sign in front of whatever's in the box).If you do it the other way around and you end up with the top surface selected, you'll need to reverse normals.

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    Goodness... I tried it before you posted and instead used a positive value of 5 ft... the terrain used was one I'd done with mountains with a zeroed edge.

  • pnewhookpnewhook Posts: 70
    Adding a small(!!) negative thickness, then separating and flattening was the easiest and exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for the help guys!
  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    John's Crazy Objects: The Lathe Tool

    Below are single page instructions to get stated using the Lathe tool. If anyone wishes I'll add another page to show the result in Vertex modeler. I have taken the time to add a few texture zones for the white stripes for what I'm calling Indian Pottery. Looks like I'm going to be adding some Indian or Aztec symbols.

    The plain was created in the Vertex room by dropping in a grid for what the vase sits on and textured with the Carrara shader rooms's Turbulance with multi shader colors... except for the turbulance I started with my own sand shader... quite a different look than sand... I was surprised at the huge change to it.

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  • MystiaraMystiara Posts: 38,107

    just had an idea from olympics to model a trophy cup/

    sweep for the handles, lathe for the cup, ruled thingee for the trophy pedestal laugh

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    Check this out by 3DAGE http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/1325436/#Comment_1325436 ... it's on P1 here. Might give you a few ideas with only using Dynamic Extrusion. I'm wondering if Ruled Surface could have a round lower base and change to a square upper base and even create the rounded cup all in one go... hmmm.... gotta go play with that idea... worth a try.

     

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