I'm surprised at some of the copyright comments. I would have thought that I retain the rights to any image I have created unless I actually sign them or any part of them over to someone else via contract. I wouldn't have thought Wonderland could give anyone copy permissions that I had not agreed to. Anything done under false pretenses in that regard should be able to be challenged under the law. Liability should go to anyone who gives or takes rights they don't own. Then again the law tends to be a wild donkey.
Sorry I can't contribute anything wonderland. Most of my stuff that I would show is a bit toonish. I wouldn't want to if I was a professional artist but under the circumstances it's probably the only way I'd get any exposure apart from the galleries here. I know I miss heaps of what goes into the galleries simply because I can't browse them often enough.
If you can work something out that will be good for those contributing then good luck to you all.
Your assumptions about copyright are correct. Contributors would be granting Wonderland license to use their copyrighted work, not transferring copyright. In exchange for that license, Wonderland appears to be giving "exposure" and access to a gallery.
I usually render at about 2400x2400 or one side at 2400 if it's vertical, then blow it up in Photoshop making sure it doesn't become pixelated. My biggest art piece is I think about 3'x3' on stretched canvas, and really looks like art, not a render... At one gallery, some people walked right up to my art about an inch away, trying to figure out what medium it was LOL. Postwork is really needed I think. I don't think I've ever seen a straight render that couldn't use a bit of postwork, even photographers do now with their photos...
And of course the copyright remains with the artist! Just because your art is in a book or on a wall of a gallery does not make you lose your copyright! (Unless you were selling an original oil painting or something, but even then I think you can retain print rights.) Someone would have to offer you a contract that you would have to sign and it would usually involve a work for hire for you to lose the copyright of your art. However, people can illegally steal your art online which is why I watermark my work to death. Some artists have found their work that they've only posted online on products sold from China on Amazon, but that's another story... And no one is selling originals, you are selling prints, so the buyer is just getting one print that you should number as 1/10 or another relatively small number to make it more valuable.
Be very careful with what you are doing (you as in general you) when it comes to numbered prints. People don't always understand the responsibilities of doing numbered runs and what that really means. Keep in mind that if you say you are selling 10 copies, you mean that is how many you will EVER produce as a print for a limited run. Otherwise numbering is meaningless and you have broken the trust of your clients (who WILL tell their friends). There are also many other conditions to understand and take care of when working in limited editions. Your printer, whether you do it or have it done, is a key element. If you don't know about inks or paper and use the wrong kind, it may be worth no more than printing at Kinko's on bond paper, which I don't think anyone would imagine would be suitable to sell as a piece of original art they expect to retain value. I suggest anyone getting into numbered editions, or any printed means to selling your work as art pieces, should read a good article such as this one:
I have to strongly disagree with this, exposure is not crap. Exposure is how you go from making images that a handful of people see on your social media site to being able to do commissions, find work, and become a respected artist. Wonderland may not have had all of the specifics worked out, but her intentions seem good and I'm also surprised at the responses here.
I am good friends with one of the most popular artists on deviantArt. We make different kinds of art (she draws, I use 3D), but if she ever recommended me and showed off my work, I would probably get twenty times the number of visitors and views that I normally get. If I were capable of doing commissions or seeking possible work, the exposure I would get from her recommendation would be invaluable.
It's kinda funny how so many here talk about this being a hobby until there's a hint of possible money to be made, then everyone's time is suddenly worth $80 an hour. We all need to work our way up, and increasing your exposure is the most basic way to do it. I think Wonderland would need to work out exactly what is done with any profits from book sales, but having your art seen by those who wouldn't normally see it is never "crap".
Please dont quote me out of context. I post art on DA simply to share and it has been a form of exposure as I have had people approach me for work through there. Everyone deserves to be paid for their work however. If one wishes to volenteer their time then that is fine as we all do it. But asking people to submit their art for free with the empty promise of exposure is to me worthless. If anyone here REALLY wants exposure on a level that is commercially viable then they should be looking to do that online first via the different art sites and communties setup for such things and maybe establishing their own site. No one works for free and giving away freebies does NOT guarantee sales.
...creating gallery quality digital prints doesn't require canvas. However, to get a decent print size, like 20 x 15 you have to render really, really large and to get a really sharp high quality print, rendering at a larger resolution the final output size is almost a given. I'm talking in the 10s of thousands of pixels on each side (not sure what the maximum render limit of Daz is). Printing can still be a fairly expensive prospect whether at DA or a high quality commercial print service. If you are looking to have a gallery accept your digital work, you better to put your best foot forward. Even when I was still working in traditional media, the presentation standards that were expected, were often extremely high, to the point having 2D work under glass in the case of drawings, photos, and limited edition prints. Unless you know exactly what you are doing, be prepared to spend a bit at a professional mat and frame shop that does gallery quality work (I learned that lesson after a plate of glass I was placing over a drawing before securing the frame to it bowed and shattered, damaging the work, and this was for a show at my college's gallery which had the frame and glass requirement).
Galleries also make their money off art sales. If your work is not deemed saleable (and CG art still has detractors in the fine art field for various reasons) or list it as "NFS", they most likely will not want it taking up valuable "real estate" on their walls/panels no matter how good it looks and how well it is presented. Yes, they can be very picky (and I live north of LA in "weird" li'l ol' Portland").
Even at SF conventions, it has been an uphill struggle for CG art to be accepted in art shows. More often than not the only way to sell a digitally produced work is at the show's "print shop" or in the con's dealer room where prices will average around 10$ - 20$ per print (no bidding allowed). Because most digitally produced art can often be viewed online and is seen bys some as easy to reproduced with the click of a mouse button, it doesn't hold the same special "attraction" that a physical work like a painting, sculpture, handcrafted item (like jewelry, a costume, glassware, etc), drawing, or even mixed media piece does, particularly if said work is a "one of a kind" piece or part a very "limited" print/casting series (and a run of 2,000 - 5,000 is not very "limited").
Be very careful with what you are doing (you as in general you) when it comes to numbered prints. People don't always understand the responsibilities of doing numbered runs and what that really means. Keep in mind that if you say you are selling 10 copies, you mean that is how many you will EVER produce as a print for a limited run. Otherwise numbering is meaningless and you have broken the trust of your clients (who WILL tell their friends). There are also many other conditions to understand and take care of when working in limited editions. Your printer, whether you do it or have it done, is a key element. If you don't know about inks or paper and use the wrong kind, it may be worth no more than printing at Kinko's on bond paper, which I don't think anyone would imagine would be suitable to sell as a piece of original art they expect to retain value. I suggest anyone getting into numbered editions, or any printed means to selling your work as art pieces, should read a good article such as this one:
...pretty much what my last comment involved. I've seen "limited" print runs with numbers as high as 10,000 15,000 and at one con, even 20,000. At that level of output, it becomes little more than a poster.
Another issue digital art has with regards to acceptance in this respect is the "original" is not a painting, or drawing, in a public gallery, but a file of 0s and 1s that resides on someone's computer. There is no "original" the public can go and view. Also there is an air of skepticism, as you mention, that even a limited print run may not end up so "limited". The only way to ensure so would be to delete both the master scene and all render files after the prints are struck and even then, there will be some who will not believe it just due to their views on the technology. If a limited print run is created, it is best not to exhibit the image online at all (where again, people can download or copy it). You could very well end up with a number of very angry customers.
Be very careful with what you are doing (you as in general you) when it comes to numbered prints. People don't always understand the responsibilities of doing numbered runs and what that really means. Keep in mind that if you say you are selling 10 copies, you mean that is how many you will EVER produce as a print for a limited run. Otherwise numbering is meaningless and you have broken the trust of your clients (who WILL tell their friends). There are also many other conditions to understand and take care of when working in limited editions. Your printer, whether you do it or have it done, is a key element. If you don't know about inks or paper and use the wrong kind, it may be worth no more than printing at Kinko's on bond paper, which I don't think anyone would imagine would be suitable to sell as a piece of original art they expect to retain value. I suggest anyone getting into numbered editions, or any printed means to selling your work as art pieces, should read a good article such as this one:
...pretty much what my last comment involved. I've seen "limited" print runs with numbers as high as 10,000 15,000 and at one con, even 20,000. At that level of output, it becomes little more than a poster.
Another issue digital art has with regards to acceptance in this respect is the "original" is not a painting, or drawing, in a public gallery, but a file of 0s and 1s that resides on someone's computer. There is no "original" the public can go and view. Also there is an air of skepticism, as you mention, that even a limited print run may not end up so "limited". The only way to ensure so would be to delete both the master scene and all render files after the prints are struck and even then, there will be some who will not believe it just due to their views on the technology. If a limited print run is created, it is best not to exhibit the image online at all (where again, people can download or copy it). You could very well end up with a number of very angry customers.
You don't have to destroy it, but you must ensure it's not going to be sold "by you" again. If someone copies it and then sells it, it will not come with your certificate of authenticity and will therefore be a counterfeit. I have friends who do art prints and they paint on the pieces thus making them unique. When digital is handled correctly, it is far more accepted in a physical state. If you are not going to do what it takes to ensure that it is a limited run, then keep your customers happy by providing a print and don't number them. That's all you need to do. At the very least, however, so that they may have long enjoyment of your work, make sure you use archival papers and pigmented inks. :)
...and yes, I would go to a high quality print service. Fortunately to just sell at a con's art show print shop, I do not have to deal with frames or even mats. The cost of just getting the prints made as well as the cut (I believe 10 - 15%) the con takes of sales will figure into the price so I'm not feeling like I would be giving them away. Heck if I could just make back the cost of the con and hotel room, I'd be happy. I'd still exhibit larger high quality versions but with "NFS" as the price, a note where prints can be purchased, and a holder with business cards on the panel.
Of course as I mentioned earlier I would not post the works I plan to sell anywhere online.
I hope this question doesn't get burried by opinions of your request but you mentioned that images should be at least 300 dpi
How do you make sure of that since none of Daz's output settings let you select or change the dpi? (at least none that I've found)
Print size and render size are separate (but related) things. If I want an image that will print 8" x 10" (standard portrait photo size) at 300 dpi, that means the render needs to be 2400 x 3000 pixels.
If you need a wall poster at 24" x 36" at the same dpi, the render has to be 7200 x 10800 pixels. You base the resolution of the image to render off of the print size and dpi (dots per inch) of the printer.
Ok, That's easy enough. I must first decide how big I want the final product to be (in inches) before I can input a render size and click the button :)
Comments
Your assumptions about copyright are correct. Contributors would be granting Wonderland license to use their copyrighted work, not transferring copyright. In exchange for that license, Wonderland appears to be giving "exposure" and access to a gallery.
I usually render at about 2400x2400 or one side at 2400 if it's vertical, then blow it up in Photoshop making sure it doesn't become pixelated. My biggest art piece is I think about 3'x3' on stretched canvas, and really looks like art, not a render... At one gallery, some people walked right up to my art about an inch away, trying to figure out what medium it was LOL. Postwork is really needed I think. I don't think I've ever seen a straight render that couldn't use a bit of postwork, even photographers do now with their photos...
And of course the copyright remains with the artist! Just because your art is in a book or on a wall of a gallery does not make you lose your copyright! (Unless you were selling an original oil painting or something, but even then I think you can retain print rights.) Someone would have to offer you a contract that you would have to sign and it would usually involve a work for hire for you to lose the copyright of your art. However, people can illegally steal your art online which is why I watermark my work to death. Some artists have found their work that they've only posted online on products sold from China on Amazon, but that's another story... And no one is selling originals, you are selling prints, so the buyer is just getting one print that you should number as 1/10 or another relatively small number to make it more valuable.
Be very careful with what you are doing (you as in general you) when it comes to numbered prints. People don't always understand the responsibilities of doing numbered runs and what that really means. Keep in mind that if you say you are selling 10 copies, you mean that is how many you will EVER produce as a print for a limited run. Otherwise numbering is meaningless and you have broken the trust of your clients (who WILL tell their friends). There are also many other conditions to understand and take care of when working in limited editions. Your printer, whether you do it or have it done, is a key element. If you don't know about inks or paper and use the wrong kind, it may be worth no more than printing at Kinko's on bond paper, which I don't think anyone would imagine would be suitable to sell as a piece of original art they expect to retain value. I suggest anyone getting into numbered editions, or any printed means to selling your work as art pieces, should read a good article such as this one:
http://www.artbusiness.com/aprtprm.html
Good info Chris, thanks.
Please dont quote me out of context. I post art on DA simply to share and it has been a form of exposure as I have had people approach me for work through there. Everyone deserves to be paid for their work however. If one wishes to volenteer their time then that is fine as we all do it. But asking people to submit their art for free with the empty promise of exposure is to me worthless. If anyone here REALLY wants exposure on a level that is commercially viable then they should be looking to do that online first via the different art sites and communties setup for such things and maybe establishing their own site. No one works for free and giving away freebies does NOT guarantee sales.
..too true.
...creating gallery quality digital prints doesn't require canvas. However, to get a decent print size, like 20 x 15 you have to render really, really large and to get a really sharp high quality print, rendering at a larger resolution the final output size is almost a given. I'm talking in the 10s of thousands of pixels on each side (not sure what the maximum render limit of Daz is). Printing can still be a fairly expensive prospect whether at DA or a high quality commercial print service. If you are looking to have a gallery accept your digital work, you better to put your best foot forward. Even when I was still working in traditional media, the presentation standards that were expected, were often extremely high, to the point having 2D work under glass in the case of drawings, photos, and limited edition prints. Unless you know exactly what you are doing, be prepared to spend a bit at a professional mat and frame shop that does gallery quality work (I learned that lesson after a plate of glass I was placing over a drawing before securing the frame to it bowed and shattered, damaging the work, and this was for a show at my college's gallery which had the frame and glass requirement).
Galleries also make their money off art sales. If your work is not deemed saleable (and CG art still has detractors in the fine art field for various reasons) or list it as "NFS", they most likely will not want it taking up valuable "real estate" on their walls/panels no matter how good it looks and how well it is presented. Yes, they can be very picky (and I live north of LA in "weird" li'l ol' Portland").
Even at SF conventions, it has been an uphill struggle for CG art to be accepted in art shows. More often than not the only way to sell a digitally produced work is at the show's "print shop" or in the con's dealer room where prices will average around 10$ - 20$ per print (no bidding allowed). Because most digitally produced art can often be viewed online and is seen bys some as easy to reproduced with the click of a mouse button, it doesn't hold the same special "attraction" that a physical work like a painting, sculpture, handcrafted item (like jewelry, a costume, glassware, etc), drawing, or even mixed media piece does, particularly if said work is a "one of a kind" piece or part a very "limited" print/casting series (and a run of 2,000 - 5,000 is not very "limited").
...pretty much what my last comment involved. I've seen "limited" print runs with numbers as high as 10,000 15,000 and at one con, even 20,000. At that level of output, it becomes little more than a poster.
Another issue digital art has with regards to acceptance in this respect is the "original" is not a painting, or drawing, in a public gallery, but a file of 0s and 1s that resides on someone's computer. There is no "original" the public can go and view. Also there is an air of skepticism, as you mention, that even a limited print run may not end up so "limited". The only way to ensure so would be to delete both the master scene and all render files after the prints are struck and even then, there will be some who will not believe it just due to their views on the technology. If a limited print run is created, it is best not to exhibit the image online at all (where again, people can download or copy it). You could very well end up with a number of very angry customers.
You don't have to destroy it, but you must ensure it's not going to be sold "by you" again. If someone copies it and then sells it, it will not come with your certificate of authenticity and will therefore be a counterfeit. I have friends who do art prints and they paint on the pieces thus making them unique. When digital is handled correctly, it is far more accepted in a physical state. If you are not going to do what it takes to ensure that it is a limited run, then keep your customers happy by providing a print and don't number them. That's all you need to do. At the very least, however, so that they may have long enjoyment of your work, make sure you use archival papers and pigmented inks. :)
...that is pretty much my plan, no numbering.
...and yes, I would go to a high quality print service. Fortunately to just sell at a con's art show print shop, I do not have to deal with frames or even mats. The cost of just getting the prints made as well as the cut (I believe 10 - 15%) the con takes of sales will figure into the price so I'm not feeling like I would be giving them away. Heck if I could just make back the cost of the con and hotel room, I'd be happy. I'd still exhibit larger high quality versions but with "NFS" as the price, a note where prints can be purchased, and a holder with business cards on the panel.
Of course as I mentioned earlier I would not post the works I plan to sell anywhere online.
I hope this question doesn't get burried by opinions of your request but you mentioned that images should be at least 300 dpi
How do you make sure of that since none of Daz's output settings let you select or change the dpi? (at least none that I've found)
Multiply the target render size (in inches) by 300. For example, an 8x10 inch image should be rendered at 2400x3000 pixels for 300dpi.
Print size and render size are separate (but related) things. If I want an image that will print 8" x 10" (standard portrait photo size) at 300 dpi, that means the render needs to be 2400 x 3000 pixels.
If you need a wall poster at 24" x 36" at the same dpi, the render has to be 7200 x 10800 pixels. You base the resolution of the image to render off of the print size and dpi (dots per inch) of the printer.
Ok, That's easy enough. I must first decide how big I want the final product to be (in inches) before I can input a render size and click the button :)
This is a cover I painted at 6000x3754 pixels (which includes bleed) to print as a book that is 6x9 inches and is a wrap-around.
Here's a list in standard paper sizes:
A4 @ 300dpi = 3507x2480
A3 @ 300dpi = 3507x4960
A2 @ 300dpi = 4960x7015
A1 @ 300dpi = 9933x7015
A0 @ 300dpi = 9933x14043