Get Your Encrypted Daz Connect Content Here Thread - none at the moment 2018-01-30

1679111239

Comments

  • argel1200argel1200 Posts: 722

    Old content won't be encrypted, new content that is encrypted will cease to be encrypted after a year.

    I think Will meant future content say 8 months after release (or longer if DAZ does not follow through on plans to remove the DRM after a year).  In other words, old content in a post DRM Daz world.

    we were told in the past (after asking about 50 times) that PAs would not have a say in what was or wasn't encrypted.

    I think that was reffering to DAZ Originals that alos listed the original PA DAZ purchased the product from.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,241

    Yeah, what argel said. And I'm not saying it's a huge issue for me in particular, but one I've heard people voice.

    So, say it's 8 months after a product got released and a new version of Studio comes out that breaks it. Someone puts in a ticket, Daz says 'hey, this isn't our product, we'll pass it on to the vendor.' But the vendor is doing other stuff and not fixing old stuff.

    And so you just sit and spin and, I guess, wait 4 months for it to no longer be DRM and hope someone can fix it.

     

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,338
    edited July 2016

    Yeah, what argel said. And I'm not saying it's a huge issue for me in particular, but one I've heard people voice.

    So, say it's 8 months after a product got released and a new version of Studio comes out that breaks it. Someone puts in a ticket, Daz says 'hey, this isn't our product, we'll pass it on to the vendor.' But the vendor is doing other stuff and not fixing old stuff.

    And so you just sit and spin and, I guess, wait 4 months for it to no longer be DRM and hope someone can fix it.

     

    I can see the misconception.  People seem to think that Ds49 itself is used to do the encryption but its not.  All the encryption is done on Daz's end prior to release.  Nothing the PAs submits to Daz is encrypted.  And Ds49 does not control encryption at all, it can just read it after you connect it online at least once to your account.  PAs have access to the same versions of DS that they public do.

    Post edited by Mattymanx on
  • argel1200argel1200 Posts: 722

    PostgreSQL does not run as a service, it runs only when DS or DIM (or Carrrara) are running.

    It's still running a databasae server on a client workstation, and if any of those apps are left open, the database is still running whther it is needed or not, such as during that several hour render.... Overall it doesn't bother me that much, but I think the point being made was more about running server systel software on a client system.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,241

    Mattymanx: You misunderstand.

    The problem is that while it is encrypted, random folks can't access or alter the files. Which is a problem if they either want to, or have a script or something that alters or modifies content, or want to download some sort of patch for content that the original vendor isn't fixing.

     

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,338

    Fair enough, i misread that.

     

     

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 1,793
    Mattymanx said:

    Fair enough, i misread that.

     

     

    I love the cars you make Matty, I love the attention to detail you put into them! 

  • mrinalmrinal Posts: 568

    The DRM free version released after an year would be available free for existing customers? Or would it be a separate purchase like the recent iray add-ons? Or would it require a separate license like the game devs?

  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 7,567

    If you have already purchased the product, you would not pay for it again, no.  And no separate license.

    mrinal said:

    The DRM free version released after an year would be available free for existing customers? Or would it be a separate purchase like the recent iray add-ons? Or would it require a separate license like the game devs?

     

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 1,793

    If you have already purchased the product, you would not pay for it again, no.  And no separate license.

    mrinal said:

    The DRM free version released after an year would be available free for existing customers? Or would it be a separate purchase like the recent iray add-ons? Or would it require a separate license like the game devs?

     

    Through all of this one thing keeps bouncing around in the back of my mind. Once the encryption has been removed will these items work in other versions of studio or will you still need to have 4.9 to work? 

  • If you have already purchased the product, you would not pay for it again, no.  And no separate license.

    mrinal said:

    The DRM free version released after an year would be available free for existing customers? Or would it be a separate purchase like the recent iray add-ons? Or would it require a separate license like the game devs?

     

    Through all of this one thing keeps bouncing around in the back of my mind. Once the encryption has been removed will these items work in other versions of studio or will you still need to have 4.9 to work? 

    To my understanding they will then be available via DIM (assuming there continues to be demand for it), so whether they will work in older versions of DS will depend on the product.

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,104

    To my understanding they will then be available via DIM (assuming there continues to be demand for it), so whether they will work in older versions of DS will depend on the product.

    The sentence in parentheses makes me scream NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

    Honestly - I am absolutely sure not everybody will change to Connect.

    If you only have the Product library or Connect to download - where does that leave the information about updated products for people not using Connect?

    Iiiiiiieeeek!

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 1,793

    If you have already purchased the product, you would not pay for it again, no.  And no separate license.

    mrinal said:

    The DRM free version released after an year would be available free for existing customers? Or would it be a separate purchase like the recent iray add-ons? Or would it require a separate license like the game devs?

     

    Through all of this one thing keeps bouncing around in the back of my mind. Once the encryption has been removed will these items work in other versions of studio or will you still need to have 4.9 to work? 

    To my understanding they will then be available via DIM (assuming there continues to be demand for it), so whether they will work in older versions of DS will depend on the product.

    OK that doesn't exactly answer my question, I am inquiring about functionality in older versions of studio, not downloading options. You only mention DIM but not direct download as an option once the encryption time limit expires. I ability to use DIM varies on my connection speed over here. If there is plans on no longer offering direct download as an option, that is going to cause even further issues for me.  

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,338

    OK that doesn't exactly answer my question, I am inquiring about functionality in older versions of studio, not downloading options. You only mention DIM but not direct download as an option once the encryption time limit expires. I ability to use DIM varies on my connection speed over here. If there is plans on no longer offering direct download as an option, that is going to cause even further issues for me.  

     

    It would depend on the product.  While the Iray mats for the car would not work in DS 4.6, it should work just fine and the 3DL mats would work as before.  I did use G3F in DS 4.6 when she was first released though mirroring poses did not work right with her in that version.

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 1,793
    Mattymanx said:

    OK that doesn't exactly answer my question, I am inquiring about functionality in older versions of studio, not downloading options. You only mention DIM but not direct download as an option once the encryption time limit expires. I ability to use DIM varies on my connection speed over here. If there is plans on no longer offering direct download as an option, that is going to cause even further issues for me.  

     

    It would depend on the product.  While the Iray mats for the car would not work in DS 4.6, it should work just fine and the 3DL mats would work as before.  I did use G3F in DS 4.6 when she was first released though mirroring poses did not work right with her in that version.

    Thanks Matty, that was wnat I was looking for. I use 4.8 with custom folders and set up and don't want to risk upgrading. I use G2f/m exclusively so once your car is no longer encrypted I will be grabbing it. I just hadn't seen anyone asking if the curently encrypted items would be 4.9 only or if they would work in 4.8. I appreciate you taking the time to answer questions here.

  • If you have already purchased the product, you would not pay for it again, no.  And no separate license.

    mrinal said:

    The DRM free version released after an year would be available free for existing customers? Or would it be a separate purchase like the recent iray add-ons? Or would it require a separate license like the game devs?

     

    Through all of this one thing keeps bouncing around in the back of my mind. Once the encryption has been removed will these items work in other versions of studio or will you still need to have 4.9 to work? 

    To my understanding they will then be available via DIM (assuming there continues to be demand for it), so whether they will work in older versions of DS will depend on the product.

    OK that doesn't exactly answer my question, I am inquiring about functionality in older versions of studio, not downloading options. You only mention DIM but not direct download as an option once the encryption time limit expires. I ability to use DIM varies on my connection speed over here. If there is plans on no longer offering direct download as an option, that is going to cause even further issues for me.  

    I was using DIM as a shortcut for the whole DIM/Zip from Product Library route - Daz has said that as long as a reasonable number of people use DIM it will be available, always subject of course to events that completely change the situation.

  • argel1200argel1200 Posts: 722

    Going back to what do I have against DRM, the above questions about what happens after the product has been out a year raise a lot of questions. One obvious one is will DAZ Studio aumatically download the DRM free update? Or will the user have to uninstall it and then reinstall? If it was automates, that would be a plus. And while we have an idea of what DAZ wants to do, they could decide to change their mind. I don't expect that to happen, but e.g. new management happens.... So, a lot of us want to see what actually happens a year later.

    On the plus side, these vehicles will still look great in a year, so age better than figures do. If V8 is out, maybe throw in some new poses for her as a minor update (that may get it to show up as "new" in the store listing).

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 1,793

    If you have already purchased the product, you would not pay for it again, no.  And no separate license.

    mrinal said:

    The DRM free version released after an year would be available free for existing customers? Or would it be a separate purchase like the recent iray add-ons? Or would it require a separate license like the game devs?

     

    Through all of this one thing keeps bouncing around in the back of my mind. Once the encryption has been removed will these items work in other versions of studio or will you still need to have 4.9 to work? 

    To my understanding they will then be available via DIM (assuming there continues to be demand for it), so whether they will work in older versions of DS will depend on the product.

    OK that doesn't exactly answer my question, I am inquiring about functionality in older versions of studio, not downloading options. You only mention DIM but not direct download as an option once the encryption time limit expires. I ability to use DIM varies on my connection speed over here. If there is plans on no longer offering direct download as an option, that is going to cause even further issues for me.  

    I was using DIM as a shortcut for the whole DIM/Zip from Product Library route - Daz has said that as long as a reasonable number of people use DIM it will be available, always subject of course to events that completely change the situation.

    OK with so much back and forth over the last few months I wasn't sure what daz's stance was anymore. Your talking about DIM didn't answer the question I had, and felt like a brush off. Luckily Matty responded with a clear answer.

  • hphoenixhphoenix Posts: 1,325
    Mattymanx said:
    Nath said:
    Mattymanx said:
    lx said:

     

    You're welcome.

    Out of curiosity, and I dont mean to take this thread off topic in anyway but what is it about the encryption that makes anyone here not want to use it?  If its the inability to organize it your way, you can create the link files in DS 4.9.2.x and place them where you want.  That to me is an intelligent move cause you could have an entire "library" of link files in one place organized your way while all the content is elsewhere.  And its ONLY the content you buy encrypted thats encrypted.  It will not effect anything else.  And whether its encrypted or not, the product is still the same.  Anyways, just curious

    First, I'm still using 4.8.  I cannot currently use any Connect Only Encrypted content.  Until they get the DB stuff a bit more stable and consistent, I'm not upgrading.....despite wanting to for some of the non-connect related fixes.

    Second, it is matter of principle (and I'm not the only one with such beliefs) that DRM is both detrimental and inneffective.  DRM is, by its very nature, like putting a huge complex and secure lock on your front door, while leaving the back door unlocked.  It makes normal valid usage more complicated, even sometimes problematic, while anyone who figures out the back door is unlocked can bypass it easily.  Don't bother arguing the analogy, as I know it isn't precisely the same case, though it is arguably similar.  As a matter of such principles, I do not support products that implement any form of on-disk DRM.

     

    You mention that any issues should be bug reported.  Of course, this is true, however if a deadline is looming, that may not be enough.  If I bought content, and I need to use it NOW (for whatever reasons) and I am locked out of a simple fix due to it being encrypted via the Connect system, then what might be a simple fix (simply editing the DUF file, or using a utility that works off of the DUF file) is unavailable, and my schedule is now at risk.  Waiting for fixes to get through QA, packaging, and release could take days, if not longer.  This can be a major problem.

    DRM creates problems for legitimate users, not pirates.  It is only a slight deterrent, and then only until an enterprising cracker finds a simple automated way around it.  And that is only a matter of time.  At that point, it is JUST a potential problem for legitimate users, and no benefit in preventing piracy.

    It is my personal opinion that DAZ made a mistake with the whole DAZ Connect implementation.  Instead of creating a whole new system of content organization, they should have established a standard, and implemented a utility to convert existing (on-disk) products to use that standard.  With that, optimizing the DB usage and interaction becomes much simpler, rather than complicating it with trying to make code and DB use THREE different standards (DS, Connect, and Poser), none of which are particularly firm.  Then the pre-4.9 smart-content implementation would have been much more usable and extensible.  But they have now committed to the whole idea (both Connect and the Encrypted content), and NO amount of arguing or rational debate will change this.  Very few businesses will admit to being wrong about decisions like this.....

     

     

     

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 10,821
    argel1200 said:

    Going back to what do I have against DRM, the above questions about what happens after the product has been out a year raise a lot of questions. One obvious one is will DAZ Studio aumatically download the DRM free update? Or will the user have to uninstall it and then reinstall? If it was automates, that would be a plus. And while we have an idea of what DAZ wants to do, they could decide to change their mind. I don't expect that to happen, but e.g. new management happens.... So, a lot of us want to see what actually happens a year later.

    On the plus side, these vehicles will still look great in a year, so age better than figures do. If V8 is out, maybe throw in some new poses for her as a minor update (that may get it to show up as "new" in the store listing).

    I'm not sure but I would think it would come through as an update to get rid of the DRM

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,241

    You know, in a year or so they should have a sale for newly unDRMd stuff.

     

  • You know, in a year or so they should have a sale for newly unDRMd stuff.

    I am sure that's already marked in the calendar.

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,338
    hphoenix said:
    Mattymanx said:

    You're welcome.

    Out of curiosity, and I dont mean to take this thread off topic in anyway but what is it about the encryption that makes anyone here not want to use it?  If its the inability to organize it your way, you can create the link files in DS 4.9.2.x and place them where you want.  That to me is an intelligent move cause you could have an entire "library" of link files in one place organized your way while all the content is elsewhere.  And its ONLY the content you buy encrypted thats encrypted.  It will not effect anything else.  And whether its encrypted or not, the product is still the same.  Anyways, just curious

    First, I'm still using 4.8.  I cannot currently use any Connect Only Encrypted content.  Until they get the DB stuff a bit more stable and consistent, I'm not upgrading.....despite wanting to for some of the non-connect related fixes.

    Second, it is matter of principle (and I'm not the only one with such beliefs) that DRM is both detrimental and inneffective.  DRM is, by its very nature, like putting a huge complex and secure lock on your front door, while leaving the back door unlocked.  It makes normal valid usage more complicated, even sometimes problematic, while anyone who figures out the back door is unlocked can bypass it easily.  Don't bother arguing the analogy, as I know it isn't precisely the same case, though it is arguably similar.  As a matter of such principles, I do not support products that implement any form of on-disk DRM.

     

    You mention that any issues should be bug reported.  Of course, this is true, however if a deadline is looming, that may not be enough.  If I bought content, and I need to use it NOW (for whatever reasons) and I am locked out of a simple fix due to it being encrypted via the Connect system, then what might be a simple fix (simply editing the DUF file, or using a utility that works off of the DUF file) is unavailable, and my schedule is now at risk.  Waiting for fixes to get through QA, packaging, and release could take days, if not longer.  This can be a major problem.

    DRM creates problems for legitimate users, not pirates.  It is only a slight deterrent, and then only until an enterprising cracker finds a simple automated way around it.  And that is only a matter of time.  At that point, it is JUST a potential problem for legitimate users, and no benefit in preventing piracy.

    It is my personal opinion that DAZ made a mistake with the whole DAZ Connect implementation.  Instead of creating a whole new system of content organization, they should have established a standard, and implemented a utility to convert existing (on-disk) products to use that standard.  With that, optimizing the DB usage and interaction becomes much simpler, rather than complicating it with trying to make code and DB use THREE different standards (DS, Connect, and Poser), none of which are particularly firm.  Then the pre-4.9 smart-content implementation would have been much more usable and extensible.  But they have now committed to the whole idea (both Connect and the Encrypted content), and NO amount of arguing or rational debate will change this.  Very few businesses will admit to being wrong about decisions like this.....

     

     

     

    Thats the most well thought out respnse yet.  Thank you

  • pdspds Posts: 547

    I agree with a lot of what others have stated regarding issues/concerns about DRM (and to an extent, Daz Connect as well) and have so far avoided knowingly purchasing a DRM'd product through the store.

    With that said, Mattymanx, the apparent quality and effort that went into creating your new car really makes me want to take a chance on an Encrypted Daz Connect product for the first time and support a talented artist--in spite of my misgivings about DRM and Daz Connect in general. I suppose some may view that as being hypocritical, but I also respect your right to want to protect your hard work. I just wish there was a better way to do so that didn't encumber legitimate purchasers.

    Decisions, decisions.

    On a related topic, there was a thread a while back in which people were asked to share their "immediate-buy" vendors. I wonder how many of them would continue to view their favorite vendors' latest products as "immediate-buy" if they were only available as Encrypted Daz Connect products? How many top tier PAs would risk their income by jumping on board the EDC train? I suspect there are folks working in Daz's marketing department who would love to know the answers to such questions...

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,104
    pds said:
    ...

    On a related topic, there was a thread a while back in which people were asked to share their "immediate-buy" vendors. I wonder how many of them would continue to view their favorite vendors' latest products as "immediate-buy" if they were only available as Encrypted Daz Connect products? How many top tier PAs would risk their income by jumping on board the EDC train? I suspect there are folks working in Daz's marketing department who would love to know the answers to such questions...

     

    As Mattymanx is the first PA to try that route I am sure his car (shiny it is!) is watched closely by Daz.

  • hphoenixhphoenix Posts: 1,325
    Mattymanx said:
    hphoenix said:
    Mattymanx said:

    You're welcome.

    Out of curiosity, and I dont mean to take this thread off topic in anyway but what is it about the encryption that makes anyone here not want to use it?  If its the inability to organize it your way, you can create the link files in DS 4.9.2.x and place them where you want.  That to me is an intelligent move cause you could have an entire "library" of link files in one place organized your way while all the content is elsewhere.  And its ONLY the content you buy encrypted thats encrypted.  It will not effect anything else.  And whether its encrypted or not, the product is still the same.  Anyways, just curious

    First, I'm still using 4.8.  I cannot currently use any Connect Only Encrypted content.  Until they get the DB stuff a bit more stable and consistent, I'm not upgrading.....despite wanting to for some of the non-connect related fixes.

    Second, it is matter of principle (and I'm not the only one with such beliefs) that DRM is both detrimental and inneffective.  DRM is, by its very nature, like putting a huge complex and secure lock on your front door, while leaving the back door unlocked.  It makes normal valid usage more complicated, even sometimes problematic, while anyone who figures out the back door is unlocked can bypass it easily.  Don't bother arguing the analogy, as I know it isn't precisely the same case, though it is arguably similar.  As a matter of such principles, I do not support products that implement any form of on-disk DRM.

     

    You mention that any issues should be bug reported.  Of course, this is true, however if a deadline is looming, that may not be enough.  If I bought content, and I need to use it NOW (for whatever reasons) and I am locked out of a simple fix due to it being encrypted via the Connect system, then what might be a simple fix (simply editing the DUF file, or using a utility that works off of the DUF file) is unavailable, and my schedule is now at risk.  Waiting for fixes to get through QA, packaging, and release could take days, if not longer.  This can be a major problem.

    DRM creates problems for legitimate users, not pirates.  It is only a slight deterrent, and then only until an enterprising cracker finds a simple automated way around it.  And that is only a matter of time.  At that point, it is JUST a potential problem for legitimate users, and no benefit in preventing piracy.

    It is my personal opinion that DAZ made a mistake with the whole DAZ Connect implementation.  Instead of creating a whole new system of content organization, they should have established a standard, and implemented a utility to convert existing (on-disk) products to use that standard.  With that, optimizing the DB usage and interaction becomes much simpler, rather than complicating it with trying to make code and DB use THREE different standards (DS, Connect, and Poser), none of which are particularly firm.  Then the pre-4.9 smart-content implementation would have been much more usable and extensible.  But they have now committed to the whole idea (both Connect and the Encrypted content), and NO amount of arguing or rational debate will change this.  Very few businesses will admit to being wrong about decisions like this.....

     

     

     

    Thats the most well thought out respnse yet.  Thank you

    Btw, Mattymanx......I do like the llamaghini.....though I must admit I rarely find much use for the exotics/supercars in my rendering.  More useful to me would be a more 'generic' car with varied morphs so that it could 'become' other cars.  A subcompact.  A sport sedan.  A sports car.  An exotic.  A muscle car.  And more.  A few 'pieces' that can be turned on and off (like spoilers, air dams, scoops, ground effects, etc.) and a variety of textures/shaders to give it both pristine and 'used' appearance.

    Now THAT would be worth a good price!  Might even tempt me to buy encrypted.....oh, wait.  Still on 4.8.  Damn.  Well, hopefully such a product would be available on DIM......

     

  • HavosHavos Posts: 4,327
    Kerya said:
    pds said:
    ...

    On a related topic, there was a thread a while back in which people were asked to share their "immediate-buy" vendors. I wonder how many of them would continue to view their favorite vendors' latest products as "immediate-buy" if they were only available as Encrypted Daz Connect products? How many top tier PAs would risk their income by jumping on board the EDC train? I suspect there are folks working in Daz's marketing department who would love to know the answers to such questions...

     

    As Mattymanx is the first PA to try that route I am sure his car (shiny it is!) is watched closely by Daz.

    Since What's Hot has been broken for a number of days, the rest of us have no idea how well this first non-DO DRM product sold.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 10,480
    Havos said:
    Kerya said:
    pds said:
    ...

    On a related topic, there was a thread a while back in which people were asked to share their "immediate-buy" vendors. I wonder how many of them would continue to view their favorite vendors' latest products as "immediate-buy" if they were only available as Encrypted Daz Connect products? How many top tier PAs would risk their income by jumping on board the EDC train? I suspect there are folks working in Daz's marketing department who would love to know the answers to such questions...

     

    As Mattymanx is the first PA to try that route I am sure his car (shiny it is!) is watched closely by Daz.

    Since What's Hot has been broken for a number of days, the rest of us have no idea how well this first non-DO DRM product sold.

    That's a convenient time for it to break. cheeky

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,104
    nicstt said:
    Havos said:
    Kerya said:
    pds said:
    ...

    On a related topic, there was a thread a while back in which people were asked to share their "immediate-buy" vendors. I wonder how many of them would continue to view their favorite vendors' latest products as "immediate-buy" if they were only available as Encrypted Daz Connect products? How many top tier PAs would risk their income by jumping on board the EDC train? I suspect there are folks working in Daz's marketing department who would love to know the answers to such questions...

     

    As Mattymanx is the first PA to try that route I am sure his car (shiny it is!) is watched closely by Daz.

    Since What's Hot has been broken for a number of days, the rest of us have no idea how well this first non-DO DRM product sold.

    That's a convenient time for it to break. cheeky

    It might be deliberately broken because of the wave of "new old" Runtimedna products at an interesting sale price.

    I don't think Daz wants V4 content in the What's hot ...

  • Kerya said:
    nicstt said:
    Havos said:
    Kerya said:
    pds said:
    ...

    On a related topic, there was a thread a while back in which people were asked to share their "immediate-buy" vendors. I wonder how many of them would continue to view their favorite vendors' latest products as "immediate-buy" if they were only available as Encrypted Daz Connect products? How many top tier PAs would risk their income by jumping on board the EDC train? I suspect there are folks working in Daz's marketing department who would love to know the answers to such questions...

     

    As Mattymanx is the first PA to try that route I am sure his car (shiny it is!) is watched closely by Daz.

    Since What's Hot has been broken for a number of days, the rest of us have no idea how well this first non-DO DRM product sold.

    That's a convenient time for it to break. cheeky

    It might be deliberately broken because of the wave of "new old" Runtimedna products at an interesting sale price.

    I don't think Daz wants V4 content in the What's hot ...

    Not deliberate, the Men in Black are investigating and will patch your mem...the site in due course.

Sign In or Register to comment.