Get Your Encrypted Daz Connect Content Here Thread - none at the moment 2018-01-30

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  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 10,404
    xyero said:
    nicstt said:
    Havos said:

    Looks like there is another new one to add to the list:

    http://www.daz3d.com/fw-nadine-hd-for-victoria-7

    As normal it is heavily discounted, with a price under 4$ if you buy one of today's releases.

    Impossible to discount DRMed products enough.

    I'll buy it for free.

    Still too expensive.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 10,404
    bad4u said:
    nicstt said:
    bad4u said:
    lx said:

    The fact is we asked for clear markers / icons on the product icon the same as DO and PC+, or like the 'new' banner, and were completely ignored.

    Any kind of 'marker' or 'banner' for something like encrypted content might raise negative associations or at least the question 'what is it about' for new customers, which doesn't help selling encrypted content, once they start thinking or reading about it. While for marketing people this probably is a no-go, it still would be easy to add some filters with positive associations, e.g. some checkbox like 'show DIM compatible content', which would make life easier for those customers who decide to not buy or cannot use encrypted content.

    It shouldn't say encrypted, but DRM; lots of items are encrypted but aren't a DRM item.

    DRM requires encryption; Encryption does not require DRM.

    Title of the thread should be changed to DRM - it's misleading.

    From marketing pov the label 'DRM' is even worse to sell than the label 'encrypted', so that will never happen. I only suggested a simple way to make buying more comfortable again for customers who don't want to (accidentally) buy encrypted content, without the 'negative touch' some kind of new marker or label might bring up.

    Yeh but this is quite a change that Daz is trying to force down their customer's throats; as it is, folks can find themselves having bought into it completely unaware; the first time they notice is when they have a problem.

    ... With DRM, sooner or later, there are problems.

    Daz does not label the content as "encrypted" - it is labelled, accurately and comprehensively, as "Encrypted Daz Connect".

    But still misleading, Richard. I'm not trying to claim the intent is to mislead for some nefarious purpose; DRM has enough negative connotations that the term makes customers wary; this should really say something to those making decissions.

    Content not available through Connect, has parts encrypted; that encrypted part will never be an issue. Enrypted content that has a DRM component can, and the experience of many says it will, have issues.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 4,321
    Nath said:
    lx said:

    And if not an error, also not introduced at a 'crazy' price...

    And also the first non-DO encrypted release. If it is an error or not, we no doubt will discover.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,240
    The price threw me at first, then I looked at the details. That's a lot of work!! And I can see, if you believe the notion that drm prevents piracy, that you'd be more apt to do it on a more involved product like that.
  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,337
    edited July 2016
    lx said:

    Its not an error.  They are encrypted only.

     

    And thank you Will.

    Post edited by Mattymanx on
  • Mattymanx said:
    lx said:

    Its not an error.  They are encrypted only.

    This is disappointing, to be honest. Most folks know (or should, at least) that at least one person is a legitimate buyer before others can download it illegally. All the encrypting is going to do is slow down how quickly this shows up on the torrent sites. Do let us know if you get a bunch of sales, though. :)

  • AlienRendersAlienRenders Posts: 687

    The problem isn't just DRM. It's applying it on content creation material. DRM on a game is still bad, but once you complete the game, it's over. You don't need the game anymore. With content creation or anything you use a lot (as was the case with music in the 80's), you get into a scenario where it's possible you no longer have access to the original. In the past, it was physical media degradation. Today, it's if something changes on your machine and you don't have access to the Internet at that time or are on a secure network where you don't want access to the outside on the machines where you're actively doing work. It's just not worth the hassle. DRM WILL cost you money if you use it.

     

  • NathNath Posts: 1,931
    Mattymanx said:
    lx said:

    Its not an error.  They are encrypted only.

     

    And thank you Will.

    Okay. Well, thanks for confirming it. It's an excellent set, and I understand that you want to protect your hard work.

    I'll probably buy it once it comes out of DRM in a year's time.

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,337
    Nath said:
    Mattymanx said:
    lx said:

    Its not an error.  They are encrypted only.

     

    And thank you Will.

    Okay. Well, thanks for confirming it. It's an excellent set, and I understand that you want to protect your hard work.

    I'll probably buy it once it comes out of DRM in a year's time.

    You're welcome.

    Out of curiosity, and I dont mean to take this thread off topic in anyway but what is it about the encryption that makes anyone here not want to use it?  If its the inability to organize it your way, you can create the link files in DS 4.9.2.x and place them where you want.  That to me is an intelligent move cause you could have an entire "library" of link files in one place organized your way while all the content is elsewhere.  And its ONLY the content you buy encrypted thats encrypted.  It will not effect anything else.  And whether its encrypted or not, the product is still the same.  Anyways, just curious

  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 3,218
    Mattymanx said:
    Nath said:
    Mattymanx said:
    lx said:

    Its not an error.  They are encrypted only.

     

    And thank you Will.

    Okay. Well, thanks for confirming it. It's an excellent set, and I understand that you want to protect your hard work.

    I'll probably buy it once it comes out of DRM in a year's time.

    You're welcome.

    Out of curiosity, and I dont mean to take this thread off topic in anyway but what is it about the encryption that makes anyone here not want to use it?  If its the inability to organize it your way, you can create the link files in DS 4.9.2.x and place them where you want.  That to me is an intelligent move cause you could have an entire "library" of link files in one place organized your way while all the content is elsewhere.  And its ONLY the content you buy encrypted thats encrypted.  It will not effect anything else.  And whether its encrypted or not, the product is still the same.  Anyways, just curious

    In my case - my local access is dial-up and I can get connected well enough to get the authentication key into Studio - but I have yet to manage to download any metadata even, I just get timeouts. So I need to download the connect offline installer package at a wifi hotspot, bring it home, and copy to my main system. Which works quite nicely. BUT - I can't get an answer to two key questions: 1) will the off-line connect packages get rebuilt for any and all updates, and 2) how will I know they've been updated? Without answers to those I'm back in the old pre-DIM days of never knowing if something has been updated.

  • NathNath Posts: 1,931
    Mattymanx said:
    Nath said:
    Mattymanx said:
    lx said:

    Its not an error.  They are encrypted only.

     

    And thank you Will.

    Okay. Well, thanks for confirming it. It's an excellent set, and I understand that you want to protect your hard work.

    I'll probably buy it once it comes out of DRM in a year's time.

    You're welcome.

    Out of curiosity, and I dont mean to take this thread off topic in anyway but what is it about the encryption that makes anyone here not want to use it?  If its the inability to organize it your way, you can create the link files in DS 4.9.2.x and place them where you want.  That to me is an intelligent move cause you could have an entire "library" of link files in one place organized your way while all the content is elsewhere.  And its ONLY the content you buy encrypted thats encrypted.  It will not effect anything else.  And whether its encrypted or not, the product is still the same.  Anyways, just curious

    For a start, I have bad experiences with encrypted content not functioning elsewhere (once burned...).

    My main objection, apart from a small matter of principle (which is not wholly consistent, since I do buy locked to license Vue content at C'copia *shrug*), is indeed the inability to organise content the way I want (for example, your car wouldn't have been in 'Vehicles', but I'd have put it in 'Props - Transport - Cars'). I like tidy diskspace, organised in a way that developed over ten years or so and that works for me, and the link files do not solve that problem, in fact they make it worse (adding a whole bunch of files just to do something that I can already do? *shudder*).

    They're just my personal objections, and ymmv.

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,089
    Mattymanx said:
    lx said:

    Its not an error.  They are encrypted only.

     

    And thank you Will.

    Thank you for the information - the items are staying in the list of the first post.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,991
    Mattymanx said:
    Nath said:
    Mattymanx said:
    lx said:

    Its not an error.  They are encrypted only.

     

    And thank you Will.

    Okay. Well, thanks for confirming it. It's an excellent set, and I understand that you want to protect your hard work.

    I'll probably buy it once it comes out of DRM in a year's time.

    You're welcome.

    Out of curiosity, and I dont mean to take this thread off topic in anyway but what is it about the encryption that makes anyone here not want to use it?  If its the inability to organize it your way, you can create the link files in DS 4.9.2.x and place them where you want.  That to me is an intelligent move cause you could have an entire "library" of link files in one place organized your way while all the content is elsewhere.  And its ONLY the content you buy encrypted thats encrypted.  It will not effect anything else.  And whether its encrypted or not, the product is still the same.  Anyways, just curious

    For me - I don't like Daz Connect. Smart Content is useful as a day 1 user who doesn't know what any files are, but after that I'd rather organise them myself. Connect also has its own filesystem that would be okay if it wasn't hidden away in a bunch of numbered folders with no description. Why add an entirely new system with a whole new system of link files I have to create, when I already have a working system of self created Categories in my Content Library in 4.8? Why build an entirely new system instead of making the Categories system more user friendly and integrated? 

    4.9 (and its subsequent patches) has given me an option between multiple fancy bridges to cross a nonexistent road. I could deal with it as a separate section of content, but I don't want to, and none of the new content is life changing enough to put up with the awful system. Also, I don't want to have to download in the client itself; if the client is open it's generally because I'm rendering. I can open DIM and download at the same time if I want, but not Connect. 

    The encrypted part is okay for me since it's only a year and my internet is decent, but since it's locked into the Connect system...

    Of course this is solely for myself and other people may feel other things and decide otherwise is this enough disclaimers okay good.

  • rippme99rippme99 Posts: 21
    edited July 2016

     

    You're welcome.

    Out of curiosity, and I dont mean to take this thread off topic in anyway but what is it about the encryption that makes anyone here not want to use it?  If its the inability to organize it your way, you can create the link files in DS 4.9.2.x and place them where you want.  That to me is an intelligent move cause you could have an entire "library" of link files in one place organized your way while all the content is elsewhere.  And its ONLY the content you buy encrypted thats encrypted.  It will not effect anything else.  And whether its encrypted or not, the product is still the same.  Anyways, just curious

    Besides principle, as said before this is a hobby for me so I'm not dependant on special products. 

    Stuff that I can't use when I want in whichever shape I want(and if it's just text editing a duf file :P) that can be taken away from me at a whim have no value to me, regardless of the fact that I may never use it in a way not available with DRM.

    That's why I only buy at Gog and never use Steam ie.

    I'll admit I've broken the rule once with Octane Render and I still feel meh about it.

    Besides the only thing that DRM has ever done for the customers is bringing prices up, I'm looking at you PS4 and XBoxOne.

    Post edited by rippme99 on
  • mrposermrposer Posts: 1,095
    Mattymanx said:
    Nath said:
    Mattymanx said:
    lx said:

     

    Out of curiosity, and I dont mean to take this thread off topic in anyway but what is it about the encryption that makes anyone here not want to use it?  If its the inability to organize it your way, you can create the link files in DS 4.9.2.x and place them where you want.  That to me is an intelligent move cause you could have an entire "library" of link files in one place organized your way while all the content is elsewhere.  And its ONLY the content you buy encrypted thats encrypted.  It will not effect anything else.  And whether its encrypted or not, the product is still the same.  Anyways, just curious

    The encryption isn't a major issue with me, I just really love DIM because its a real time saver for installing content and is a great tool for locating where content is installed when its hard to find. I think putting the install function into DAZ Studio is a big drag esp. since its back to product by product installation. I use smart content only as a last resort. Every time I start up DAZ Studio it automatically re-imports about 3000 items and always finds the same 17 or so errors and takes about 4 minutes to complete. After that I try not to click on the smart content tab and everything goes okay.  I really love the car especially those hot looking wheel designs (only negative is I didn't see any driver/rider poses in either product or addon)... but I may buy the product down the road. 

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 10,404
    edited July 2016
    Mattymanx said:
    Nath said:
    Mattymanx said:
    lx said:

    Its not an error.  They are encrypted only.

     

    And thank you Will.

    Okay. Well, thanks for confirming it. It's an excellent set, and I understand that you want to protect your hard work.

    I'll probably buy it once it comes out of DRM in a year's time.

    You're welcome.

    Out of curiosity, and I dont mean to take this thread off topic in anyway but what is it about the encryption that makes anyone here not want to use it?  If its the inability to organize it your way, you can create the link files in DS 4.9.2.x and place them where you want.  That to me is an intelligent move cause you could have an entire "library" of link files in one place organized your way while all the content is elsewhere.  And its ONLY the content you buy encrypted thats encrypted.  It will not effect anything else.  And whether its encrypted or not, the product is still the same.  Anyways, just curious

    Even without the DRM I wouldn't buy as I don't like the car; your implementation is very impressive.

     

    It isn't the encryption; it is the DRM part of the equation. Encryption doesn't need DRM to work; DRM does need some form of encryption to lock out accounts that can't confirm they are legitimately allowed access.

    DRM always causes issues; it's a matter of determining if the issues could be a problem to me; they could. The likelihood can be argued until the heat death of the universe, I avoid DRM. I don't knowingly buy products containing it. I return them if I find out in time.

     

    With DRM it is a balance of deciding if you will loose more sales to legitimate customers, than the pirates who decide to buy it because they want it, and the protection prevents them from stealing it.

     

    Post edited by nicstt on
  • argel1200argel1200 Posts: 722
    edited July 2016

    Out of curiosity, and I dont mean to take this thread off topic in anyway but what is it about the encryption that makes anyone here not want to use it

    Because based on my past experiences with DRM, I exepct I will have problems with this. Because the idea of having e.g. $20,000 worth of DRM'd 3D content is crazy (granted, spending that much on 3D content is also crazy, but I digress). Because DAZ has mentioned the poison pill (to remove DRM if e.g. they go out of business), but I do not believe it has made it into legalese yet. Because DAZ has indicated in the formums that content will e DRM'd for a year then go DRM-free, but I do not beleive that has stated that in legalese yet (it's also painful to to track down the releasse date information).

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • rippme99rippme99 Posts: 21
    Kerya said:

    I could be wrong, but at some point, isn't everything mainstream and niche likely to become encrypted and DRM'ed? Globalisations Big Brother isn't interested in anyones rights. Not only that, but isn't there likely to come a time when you won't be able to use a lot of software without actually being connected to the internet, or at least regularly connected? I don't like it, ..

     

    I don't like it either - which is why I am NOT buying Poser11Pro ...

    I have PP2014, I have DazStudio, I have Bryce, I have an outdated version of Vue, I have a never installed version of Carrara (no time to learn it) ... I think I will not die of boredom. *grin*

    Ahh i was tempted to buy Poser 11 on the 50% of price, so I figure it uses the same alway on DRM as Gamedev ?

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,089
    rippme99 said:
    Kerya said:

    I could be wrong, but at some point, isn't everything mainstream and niche likely to become encrypted and DRM'ed? Globalisations Big Brother isn't interested in anyones rights. Not only that, but isn't there likely to come a time when you won't be able to use a lot of software without actually being connected to the internet, or at least regularly connected? I don't like it, ..

     

    I don't like it either - which is why I am NOT buying Poser11Pro ...

    I have PP2014, I have DazStudio, I have Bryce, I have an outdated version of Vue, I have a never installed version of Carrara (no time to learn it) ... I think I will not die of boredom. *grin*

    Ahh i was tempted to buy Poser 11 on the 50% of price, so I figure it uses the same alway on DRM as Gamedev ?

    Yes - at least "from time to time online and phoning home"

    http://my.smithmicro.com/poser-pro-11-system-requirements.html

    We have a contingency plan to allow you to continue using your copy of Poser, regardless of Smith Micro management, employee or ownership changes.

    Sounds ... familiar ...

  • mrposer said:

    I think putting the install function into DAZ Studio is a big drag esp. since its back to product by product installation.

    Standard multi-selection methods (shift-click to select a range, ctrl(Win)/cmd(Mac)-click to add or remove individual items) work in the Smart Content pane's products tab and in the Install pane.

  • rippme99rippme99 Posts: 21
    Kerya said:
    rippme99 said:
    Kerya said:

    I could be wrong, but at some point, isn't everything mainstream and niche likely to become encrypted and DRM'ed? Globalisations Big Brother isn't interested in anyones rights. Not only that, but isn't there likely to come a time when you won't be able to use a lot of software without actually being connected to the internet, or at least regularly connected? I don't like it, ..

     

    I don't like it either - which is why I am NOT buying Poser11Pro ...

    I have PP2014, I have DazStudio, I have Bryce, I have an outdated version of Vue, I have a never installed version of Carrara (no time to learn it) ... I think I will not die of boredom. *grin*

    Ahh i was tempted to buy Poser 11 on the 50% of price, so I figure it uses the same alway on DRM as Gamedev ?

    Yes - at least "from time to time online and phoning home"

    http://my.smithmicro.com/poser-pro-11-system-requirements.html

    We have a contingency plan to allow you to continue using your copy of Poser, regardless of Smith Micro management, employee or ownership changes.

    Sounds ... familiar ...

    Hehe

    Thanks for the link! Poser Pro 2014 and Daz Studio 4.8 is good enough anyways for what I do.

     

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,240

    Another problem people have mentioned is that it makes it very hard to make changes to content or use scripts to change content or to pass around fixes for content.

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,337

    Errors should be reported to Daz so an official fix can be made.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,240
    edited July 2016

    Except old content, or stuff that Daz doesn't control, or vendors that have dropped out of touch, or...

    Which has happened before.

    I mean, there are a number of problems with content that's a few versions behind and either the vendor is unwilling or unable to fix it, or not around any more. If it wasn't for the ability for people to pass around fixes, that would be content sold in the store that doesn't work.

     

    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • mambanegramambanegra Posts: 506
    Mattymanx said:
    lx said:
    Out of curiosity, and I dont mean to take this thread off topic in anyway but what is it about the encryption that makes anyone here not want to use it?  If its the inability to organize it your way, you can create the link files in DS 4.9.2.x and place them where you want.  That to me is an intelligent move cause you could have an entire "library" of link files in one place organized your way while all the content is elsewhere.  And its ONLY the content you buy encrypted thats encrypted.  It will not effect anything else.  And whether its encrypted or not, the product is still the same.  Anyways, just curious

    For me, it's not the encrypted part, though, I am one who has edited files using a text editor in order to hack a few files now and again-but it's not really a huge issue for me. No, I dislike Connect all around. I don't use the Smart Content and strongly disagree with installing a DB server on end user's machines. I want my machine to be as pristine as possible, and junking it up with various services isn't good for me and is lazy programming, in my opinion. There are other solutions out there, since it's not like you'll have multiple versions of DAZ Studio running and need an independent source for data lookups. 

    Connect is also wasteful in other ways. I am a mac user. As such, I don't have access to a decent nVidia solution so I have a windows computer which acts solely as a render machine. DAZ Encrypted connect items must be duplicated on both machines, which is wasteful. Also, the general approach for DAZ Studio to duplicate the entire runtime structure for every single item installed means hundreds of thousands of redundant directories are created if you have a few thousand products. Again, incredibly wasteful. This is neither good for the machine nor is it necessary. 

    Now, with all of that, I disliked Connect, but I was willing to give it a try way back when they were asking us to consider it. But, the link solution they offer to allowus to integrate connect based stuff into our file organization requires a lot more work than just dragging a directory to it's new home. With connect, I have to create links for each item, organize them into their respective subdirectories, etc. This is a waste of my time, so, after doing it for a single item, I decided that I would no longer consider anything DAZ Connect only a likely purchase. I have since made a single purchase unwittingly...but, thanks to this thread, I don't think it will happen again. 

    If DAZ moves to only selling Connect only content, I'll have to make a decision to change with them, or more likely, be highly selective of which content I tolerate the inconveniences for and spend most of my money elsewhere. If they truly address the problems with Connect, I'm open to switching, but I think many bad decisions have already been made and it is highly unlikely they will undo them just because they've lost a few customers. 

  • Except old content, or stuff that Daz doesn't control, or vendors that have dropped out of touch, or...

    Old content won't be encrypted, new content that is encrypted will cease to be encrypted after a year.

    For me, it's not the encrypted part, though, I am one who has edited files using a text editor in order to hack a few files now and again-but it's not really a huge issue for me. No, I dislike Connect all around. I don't use the Smart Content and strongly disagree with installing a DB server on end user's machines. I want my machine to be as pristine as possible, and junking it up with various services isn't good for me and is lazy programming, in my opinion. There are other solutions out there, since it's not like you'll have multiple versions of DAZ Studio running and need an independent source for data lookups. 

    PostgreSQL does not run as a service, it runs only when DS or DIM (or Carrrara) are running.

    Now, with all of that, I disliked Connect, but I was willing to give it a try way back when they were asking us to consider it. But, the link solution they offer to allowus to integrate connect based stuff into our file organization requires a lot more work than just dragging a directory to it's new home. With connect, I have to create links for each item, organize them into their respective subdirectories, etc. This is a waste of my time, so, after doing it for a single item, I decided that I would no longer consider anything DAZ Connect only a likely purchase. I have since made a single purchase unwittingly...but, thanks to this thread, I don't think it will happen again.

    With 4.9.2.70 there is a new "virtual" folder named Daz Connect under DAZ Studio Formats and Poser Formats which aggregates all of the Connect-installed content. You can use that as a way to browse a more file-based layout in its own right or you can right-click on a folder at any level in the hierarchy and create a hierarchically arranged set of tlinks for everything in that folder or that folder and its sub-folders in a location of your choice. No need for file-by-file drag-and-drop.

  • Peter FulfordPeter Fulford Posts: 1,325

    I can't help but be amused at the irony of the first full-priced non-DO encrypted / digital rights managed release at DAZ being a derivitive design extremely closely based on the (2012) Lamborghini Aventador.

    Not saying the product isn't entirely above board, etc, but if I was Mr Launch at DAZ I'd have made the first big non-copyable release something truly original; something that wasn't actually, you know, a copy.

    Anyways, the comedy fake name did make me think of Rama Lama (Lama Lama) Ding Dong, which leads us to some car-related light entertainment:

    https://youtu.be/KStsPPgeka4

     

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,337

    I can't help but be amused at the irony of the first full-priced non-DO encrypted / digital rights managed release at DAZ being a derivitive design extremely closely based on the (2012) Lamborghini Aventador.

    Not saying the product isn't entirely above board, etc, but if I was Mr Launch at DAZ I'd have made the first big non-copyable release something truly original; something that wasn't actually, you know, a copy.

    Anyways, the comedy fake name did make me think of Rama Lama (Lama Lama) Ding Dong, which leads us to some car-related light entertainment:

    https://youtu.be/KStsPPgeka4

     

     

    The encryption and the content was my choice, not Daz's.  The first Amenazador was made in May 2013 followed by the Gallopngo in Sept 2013.  So its not the first time I made an Aventador look-a-like.    And what in the store is NOT copied from something else.  Art imitates life.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,991
    Mattymanx said:

    I can't help but be amused at the irony of the first full-priced non-DO encrypted / digital rights managed release at DAZ being a derivitive design extremely closely based on the (2012) Lamborghini Aventador.

    Not saying the product isn't entirely above board, etc, but if I was Mr Launch at DAZ I'd have made the first big non-copyable release something truly original; something that wasn't actually, you know, a copy.

    Anyways, the comedy fake name did make me think of Rama Lama (Lama Lama) Ding Dong, which leads us to some car-related light entertainment:

    https://youtu.be/KStsPPgeka4

     

     

    The encryption and the content was my choice, not Daz's.  The first Amenazador was made in May 2013 followed by the Gallopngo in Sept 2013.  So its not the first time I made an Aventador look-a-like.    And what in the store is NOT copied from something else.  Art imitates life.

    I'm glad to hear that, because we were told in the past (after asking about 50 times) that PAs would not have a say in what was or wasn't encrypted.

     

    I can see the new one has many more materials and features - does it use the same base model or did you completely remake it?

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,337
    lx said:
    Mattymanx said:
     

    The encryption and the content was my choice, not Daz's.  The first Amenazador was made in May 2013 followed by the Gallopngo in Sept 2013.  So its not the first time I made an Aventador look-a-like.    And what in the store is NOT copied from something else.  Art imitates life.

    I'm glad to hear that, because we were told in the past (after asking about 50 times) that PAs would not have a say in what was or wasn't encrypted.

     

    I can see the new one has many more materials and features - does it use the same base model or did you completely remake it?

     

    It is all brand new.  Nothing from the first one went into the second one.  The only thing that got "reused" was some photo references.

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