Buy Something That Doesn't Work in Carrara? Post your Questions and Workarounds here. (please)

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  • Headwax_CarraraHeadwax_Carrara Posts: 7,638

    I purchased Carrara about 3 years ago: I played around with it and lost intrest itin it fast.

     

    Oh you'll have to forgive Wendy et Stezza for their rudness @Softimage_Graphic_Artist .

    I have to admit I admire your intellectual stamina.

    I bought Carrara about 9 years ago and I am still trying to lose interest in it.

    You'll have to give us your secret so we can stop being jealous.

  • MystarraMystarra Posts: 30,489

    i have to say, coming from Poser, i had a few false starts in carrara.

    i was used to parameter dials and poser shader room.

    hair and cloth dynamics in poser was just hype. 

    didnt get physics results until i came to carrara.

    start with customizing the carrara ui, to "own" it, make it yours.
    larger menu font and background colours.

  • UnifiedBrainUnifiedBrain Posts: 1,995

    My request here is not for a product fix, but instead a question about a Carrara function that apparently does not work.

    I want to have some renders printed as posters.  I believe that print shops ask you to provide a 300 dpi image.

    In Carrara, my images are always 72 dpi.  I've changed the preferences to 300 dpi (preferences>render room>300dpi).  I've also changed the render room Output tab to 300 dpi.  To the best of my knowledge, nothing changes in the final render.

    In short, all my renders since the very beginning have aparently been 72 dpi (PNG images).  At least, that is what Photoshop Elements says, when I load them there.  Other renders I load there, such as Ron's Space images, always show up as 300 dpi.

    Am I misinterpreting something here, or doing something wrong?

    Thanks for any responses.

  • BrianP21361BrianP21361 Posts: 553

    UnifiedBrain you are missing something. dpi is really meaningless in Carrara. It's the total number of pixels that count. if you create an image in Carrara that's 800x1000 pixels and print it as an 8"x10" picture then it's 100 dpi. If you print the same picture at 4"x5" its going to be 200 dpi. So, if you want to print an 8"x10" at 300 dpi image created in carrara it should be 2400x3000 pixels. I did this quickly. I hope my math is correct. 

  • UnifiedBrainUnifiedBrain Posts: 1,995

    Thanks Brian.  You say that dpi is more related to total size (number of pixels) than it is an independent adjustment.  But is PSE, it clearly is an independent adjustment.  How can dpi be meaningless in Carrara, when there are (supposedly) two places in the software to make dpi adjustments?

     

  • BrianP21361BrianP21361 Posts: 553
    edited June 19

    Let me try to explain with some images. I created a simple Carrara scene and rendered it at 640x480 pixels at both 72 dpi and 300 dpi. I opened both in PhotoShop Elements (first two screen shots). The images look identical. This isn't a Carrara bug. If I chose resize in PSE you can see the number of pixels, document size and dpi. Both images showed the same dpi (72) when I chose resize. If I change the dpi, the document size decreases by the same amount. Notice that the Resample Image check box is unchecked. If I left the Resample Image box checked and then changed dpi to 300, the document size will stay the same, but the number of pixels increases. Notice at the bottom is says "Bicubic(best for smooth gradients". PSE is using an algorithm to increase the number of pixels in the image. This resampled image won't look as good as an image that's rendered at the full pixel size to begin with, 2000x2667. The file size also increases significantly and it has to because there are more pixels. Does that make sense?

    Screen Shot 2019-06-18 at 7.55.08 PM.png
    1007 x 565 - 143K
    Screen Shot 2019-06-18 at 7.55.49 PM.png
    1008 x 561 - 147K
    Screen Shot 2019-06-18 at 7.58.37 PM.png
    1102 x 702 - 161K
    Screen Shot 2019-06-18 at 7.59.32 PM.png
    1105 x 713 - 154K
    Screen Shot 2019-06-18 at 8.00.30 PM.png
    1126 x 715 - 158K
    Post edited by BrianP21361 on
  • UnifiedBrainUnifiedBrain Posts: 1,995
    edited June 19

    Let me try to explain with some images. I created a simple Carrara scene and rendered it at 640x480 pixels at both 72 dpi and 300 dpi. I opened both in PhotoShop Elements (first two screen shots). The images look identical. This isn't a Carrara bug. If I chose resize in PSE you can see the number of pixels, document size and dpi. Both images showed the same dpi (72) when I chose resize.

    I followed you to this point.  You were comparing the two images, and said that they looked identical.  Then you started talking about what PSE does to an image when you resize.  I also followed that part.

    What was missing - for me at least - was a conclusion about if the Carrara 72 dpi image was different in some way from the 300 dpi image. If the 72 and the 300 are indeed identical, right from Carrara, then Carrara is not functioning as the menus suggest.  And, that there is no value in choosing the 300 dpi value as a Carrara output.

     

    If I change the dpi, the document size decreases by the same amount. Notice that the Resample Image check box is unchecked. If I left the Resample Image box checked and then changed dpi to 300, the document size will stay the same, but the number of pixels increases. Notice at the bottom is says "Bicubic(best for smooth gradients". PSE is using an algorithm to increase the number of pixels in the image. This resampled image won't look as good as an image that's rendered at the full pixel size to begin with, 2000x2667. The file size also increases significantly and it has to because there are more pixels. Does that make sense?

     

    Post edited by UnifiedBrain on
  • Stezza_Carrara9Stezza_Carrara9 Posts: 4,514

    Say you have an image that is 500 x 500 with a 72dpi. You can go into image size (with the re-sampling checked) and make it 300dpi. This will give you a bigger image but it is probably not what you want. This will give you an image of 2083 x 2083. You will see that it will not change the inches.

    If you want to change to a higher dpi for printing but do not want to change the onscreen image size, then you uncheck re-sampling. Un-checking sampling will give you the same pixel size (500 x 500) but will change the print size to 1.667 inches down from 6.944.

    I just did a test render at 640 x 380 x 300dpi and saved as jpg .. working as expected. yes

     

  • UnifiedBrainUnifiedBrain Posts: 1,995

    Stezza, if my question was "How do I change an image I made in Carrara to 300 dpi in PSE, " then you answered it (as did Brian).

    In fact, I have done this many times myself.  And now that I am getting into printing, it will likely be the method I use for future printed work.

    But that is a workaround.  I brought up the subject of PSE only as a means to verify the dpi rate coming from Carrara.  And based on what the menus say in Carrara, I am supposed to be able to create a 300 dpi image, without doing a conversion in another software.

    I was hoping that maybe I was overlooking something, but it appears that the dpi settings in Carrara don't do anything.  The output stays at 72 dpi regardless what you select.

    To me, this is a bug. :)

  • SelinitaSelinita Posts: 1,083

    UnifiedBrain,

    The Resolution setting works as follows:

    1. In the Image Size dialogue to the right of the Width: and Height: setting there is a drop down unit box - set this to anything other than px (pixels)
    2. Change the Resolution dpi and look at the Properties: Image Aspect Ratio, Pixel size and File size change accordingly!
    image image image

    Hope that helps... so just to reiterate, Set your print size in cm (centimetres) or in (inches) and change your dpi accordingly to create the correct sized image in pixels.

  • UnifiedBrainUnifiedBrain Posts: 1,995

    Awesome, Selina!  It looks like you have the answer.  I will experiment with it later today.

    Many thanks for the replies and efforts to help, folks.  Cleared things up a bit. yes

  • SileneUK_CarraraSileneUK_Carrara Posts: 1,442
    edited June 19

    Awesome, Selina!  It looks like you have the answer.  I will experiment with it later today.

    Many thanks for the replies and efforts to help, folks.  Cleared things up a bit. yes

    It works... without fail.  If you are using a version of Photoshop, be sure you check your colour settings in PS. You can end up with a different set of colours on your image when you open it there and I am not talking about the RGB vs CMYK profile. If you see a rusty colour dominating your images in PS, go to Edit>Colour Settings and see if you are using Monitor Colour or some other colour setting. It does make a difference. Depending upon your system and software version you will have to have a play around to get your PS images to look the same as the ones you saved in the Render room.  Also I use TIFF or PSD and not jpgs... at 300, you don't want to lose any clarity.

    smiley  Silene

    Post edited by SileneUK_Carrara on
  • UnifiedBrainUnifiedBrain Posts: 1,995

    Thank you Silene.  Yes, it works great, now that I understand the bigger picture (literally) and the missing step.  It was a bit obvious, but I easily miss the obvious. :)

    Thanks for the additional tips!

    I'm looking forward to what advice the local printshop gives as well.

  • SelinitaSelinita Posts: 1,083

    When going from screen to print there is a conversion from one colour space to another, ie RGB (screen) to CMYK (print). At the printshop their monitors and printers will have been calibrated so that what you see on screen is what you will get in print. The difficulty lies in the fact that your home machine probably isn't and my advice to you is to do your own printout and adjust it to get the colour you want in photoshop and take this along with your file to the printers as they will be able to match your paper copy to the finished print run.

    When I was working as a Graphic Designer I used to supply all artwork to the printers in PDF format as it contained valuable CMYK separation information and the correct colour profile to get the results I was expecting along with a hard copy printed on the company's printer which I had already adjusted by eye to get the desired result.

    Hope that helps (?)

  • SileneUK_CarraraSileneUK_Carrara Posts: 1,442
    edited June 20
    Selinita said:

    When going from screen to print there is a conversion from one colour space to another, ie RGB (screen) to CMYK (print). At the printshop their monitors and printers will have been calibrated so that what you see on screen is what you will get in print. The difficulty lies in the fact that your home machine probably isn't and my advice to you is to do your own printout and adjust it to get the colour you want in photoshop and take this along with your file to the printers as they will be able to match your paper copy to the finished print run.

    When I was working as a Graphic Designer I used to supply all artwork to the printers in PDF format as it contained valuable CMYK separation information and the correct colour profile to get the results I was expecting along with a hard copy printed on the company's printer which I had already adjusted by eye to get the desired result.

    Hope that helps (?)

    What she said!! I still work as a 2D designer for my old employer when they get busy... can't seem to let it go. Feeds my expensive habit of 3D angel

    What are you rendering... can you post a sample?

     Also, if most of your colours are within the 'natural world' gamut, eg no overly bright/vivid colours, some of which you can get in RGB mode which is what your screen uses, then converting to CMYK for printing won't make a big difference.  EG, if your render is more photo-realistic and uses colours we see everyday, then it should be OK.  You can save a pdf in PS using 'save as' if you want to get an idea. It will automatically take your RGB render and change the colour profile to CMYK for most images.  You can also change your colour mode to CMYK in most photo programmes (eg PS) or if you cannot make a pdf. Then you will see your screen image change or not change depending upon the colours you used.  If not happy or sure about the colour result, then give the printer a PSD or TIFF file. They can tweak it to get a pleasing appearance.  

    Your print bureau can help if they are printing on the premises by giving you a proof. Some will only give you a digital proof, though. Depends on where you go.   Be aware that if you are using a local business printer, their ethos will be to get a close to result. If it is a very important artwork, you need to go to a fine-arts printer.

    If you have colours that your artwork must have as vivid and outside of the normal natural gamut like those vivid pinks, greens and turquoises, then you can pay for a Pantone colour to be added to the printing process to capture that colour.  Extra cost.

    Here's a screenie of what I mean about the colour gamuts for RGB and CMYK.  The K of CMYK is represented by the black bit in the centre. CMYK is a pigment/ink based system. Even our home printers are now mostly a passable CMYK,.  RGB is a light based system, and what you can see on your monitor and the centre bit is white.   Pantone is an ink mfr who create specific pigments for the printing industry. They can do anything, eg metallics and day-glow colours. It's added to the printing press to get special colours and of course costs more.  

    Just changed the image which gives a better view of RGB vs CMYK... the first screenie was not very explanatory and one I substuted and took off had it backwards. Shame on a printing site for doing that!

    yes  SIlene

     

     

    Post edited by SileneUK_Carrara on
  • UnifiedBrainUnifiedBrain Posts: 1,995

    Thanks gals, for those great tips.  I'm sure that there will be a learning curve, and you helped smooth it.yesheart

    I have had several things printed in the past, but never any of my Carrara artwork.  What I will bring them are mostly PNG versions of renders I have entered in the Challenge.  I'm particularly interested in large sized posters, such as 24 x 36 inches.  At 300 dpi, those will be some weighty renders!

    The print company I use is interesting because they only do work for other printing companies.  In other words, they don't deal with the general public.  I got an exception because I self-publish a book, and they took me on as a client almost 20 years ago.

  • SileneUK_CarraraSileneUK_Carrara Posts: 1,442

    Thanks gals, for those great tips.  I'm sure that there will be a learning curve, and you helped smooth it.yesheart

    I have had several things printed in the past, but never any of my Carrara artwork.  What I will bring them are mostly PNG versions of renders I have entered in the Challenge.  I'm particularly interested in large sized posters, such as 24 x 36 inches.  At 300 dpi, those will be some weighty renders!

    The print company I use is interesting because they only do work for other printing companies.  In other words, they don't deal with the general public.  I got an exception because I self-publish a book, and they took me on as a client almost 20 years ago.

    Well done! Are you doing another book or set of illustrations now? enlightened  Silene

  • UnifiedBrainUnifiedBrain Posts: 1,995

    Nope, just exploring the idea of doing posters. There is another book I am working on, but that is another story. smiley

  • mindsongmindsong Posts: 1,075
    edited June 25

    Nope, just exploring the idea of doing posters. There is another book I am working on, but that is another story. smiley

    i see what you did there... :^)

    (and thanks selinita and selineUK_Carrara for the tips - I've PDF-d and offlined this page for future reference)

    --ms

    Post edited by mindsong on
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