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It's really the spotty nature of the documentation that's been the problem...it's hard to know what features are present when even the basics aren't well documented.
This.
And the documentation is spotty for two reasons. First of all, it is really hard tro write good documentation to a moving target, and Studio is a fairly rapidly moving target. Second, you need base documentation from the developers along the line of "this option, found in this menu does this when the target is selected". With Studio, the developers seem to be running the red queen's race on the code and what documentation they generate seems to be done in either their down time or personal time. And it is VERY dificult to document a process in Studio without the base function documentation.
So for the most part we stumble upon ways of doing things and then share them here. The result is one part great adventure and one part frustration. :-)
I started with poser. Tried versions 5, 6, and 7 when they were new. Whatched tutorials and bought how to books. To this day i cant get a picture half as decent looking as I can in D|S. I'm a fairly techicnal minded person from my job and yet Poser never -clicked- with me.D|S has always been easier for my brain to wrap around. The only thing I truly miss out of Poser is dynamics.
When i originally started with 3d, i started with DS. After 4 or 5 months i bought poser for some of the features it had that DS did not. When it became clear that Poser was never going to natively support Genesis, i switched back to DS.
So far i do not regret it, and now i do not miss anything from Poser at all. I am not the only one who jumped from Poser to DS either, i followed the example from a handful of artists i follow.
The programs themselves come down to personal preference really. The issue was the content. SM released new figures with poser 11, and most people who have tried them have to compare them G3, and the result of that is pretty much that G3 trumps them by a fair margin. But that is of lesser importance to most people - the crux of it is how much content support they get. Even if the new poser figures were far better, if they had minimal support from content creators, they would be a failure.
...what Ghostly12 said...
...but Uberenvironment was a real memory hog, especially if you were on a 32 bit system which was still somewhat common back then. With only 2 GB (3 if you could use the "3GB switch" in the ini file), it also meant the risk of render crashes. I gave up on it and just stuck with the native 3DL until I built my 64 bit system. Even then, it was slow as molasses and tended to make the system run much hotter than either the base 3DL or Luxrender.
AoA's advanced lights and SSS shader really changed the situation. For example, one scene I created and started rendring with UE would have taken a minimum of 25 hours based on my estimate at a rate of 15 min per 1% (and it hadn't even got to the "difficult" part of the scene yet), while with the AoA lights the entire process took only 14 min and looked incredible. Unfortunately the 4.7 release broke the flagging whne using SSS shaders as there was a change to the shader mixer (most likely to accommodate the forthcoming introduction of Iray).
Also a long time user of Poser (from version 5 to the recent one), but mostly used Daz Studio since a couple of years from now.
It is also true, that I enjoy a lot, all of the features of Daz Studio, especially native support of Genesis 3 line and Iray.
But with the recent Daz acquisition of RuntimeDNA and Mortem Vetus big sale here,
I will start using Poser again. The details of their Michael 4 based characters are amazing
and since I do a lot of close up renders, I really enjoy the speed of Poser rendering
(2-3 minutes in Poser Firefly versus half an hour in Iray, at least on my computer with 2GB of VRAM Nvidia graphic card).
I also agree with Midnight_stories, that the content is more important than the program,
so just use, what suits you best.
I would recomend going to Hivewire and Renderosity forums and asking the same question to get a more all around view of the benifets of Poser. I used Poser for quite a while and only switched because Poser and my laptop weren't getting along well.
Ehm ... no, he is not talking about your tutorial ... it's about this: https://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/genesis-3-poser-updater/76121
What script are you referring to? There is some solution over at Rendo but AFAIR this is windows only?! Would love to find a solution working with DAZ on Mac.
I would only be interested in Pro, and not the Standard version; the HD morph brush (I think its called is not available in Standard), and some other differences; I'd compare the two and see.
Other than the native Poser figures, I'm not aware of anything that can't be got into Daz; and even native ones could be with some tweakage as they are just meshes, rigging and textures. But they aren't well supported, I understand.
There is a free trial of Poser 11 Pro - use it, and wait for it to come on offer again - it will; at least if previous experiences with older versions are any indication.
1. Look at the art produced.
To me either has the tools to create great art.
2. Does the content you have all work in Poser, or Daz; and if so, will it all work in the other.
This answer depends on quantity that favours one or the other.
3. Do you like learning new systems?
Yes might be a take the plunge. No? Well obviously not. Just remember how you felt when you were learning Daz.
4. Whatever tools you used for the commission were missing, and that you could have really used that are available in Poser?
Are those tools available elsewhere? Such as Blender, which is free; from my point of view, I found Blender much easier to learn than Poser; I love the art that Poser users create, but can't get on with the tool.
I don't hate it, and have considered it because of the HD morph brush added to Poser Pro 11, and it's Dynamics system. But I have a lot of G3 items, and even with the new tool available, it requires work. I'm happy enough with using Blender atm.
Depending on how Smart Content - and specifically the DRM component - develops, I may still move over; looks less likely now, but companies change their minds due to market forces.
What DS needs are advanced easy dependency editor features. ERC-freeze appears very limited to me. A morph brush whould be lovley too. Poser is still stuck in the 90s' technologie and its users reject any progress afraid they are loosing V4 compability. I still will use both. I guess Poser mainley because of upcomming ProjectE release.
In the end I will go with that software, that offers pro features for pro figures. Just pose Genesis3F next to Poser's Pauline and you know who has really blown it.
One thing I forgot to mention -- w/Poser 11, you do get two figures -- Paul and Pauline -- that are "open source," although the interpretation of "open source" seems to be open to interpretation. :-)
But supposedly, you can use Paul/Pauline as bases for your own figures, if you ever intend to enter that arena.
I am not loving the P11 HD morph tool, but I have ZBrush.
Your question -- Poser vs DAZ...which is better -- really has no answer. You won't know if you like Poser, especially Poser 11, till you use it. Experimenting w/a trial version makes a ton of sense, if there's a trial version available.
Edit/Correction: Paul and Pauline are considered "merchant resources," not "open source." I'm sorry for the error.
This is actually Midnight_stories's method with an additionnal script that fixes expressions.
Anybody might clarify on that dymanic clothing script and whether it works on Mac? Thanks!
Amusingly, I started doing 3d stuff with Ray Dream Studio, maaaaany years ago. (Which eventually evolved into Carrara)
Search Dyncreator over at renderosity, the operating system says Windows 95, Win7 so it doesn't look like there's a Mac version yet.
I don't know how Optitex dynamic clothing compares to Poser's clothing room, since I haven't owned Poser in 15+ years. Optitex stuff can be a little finicky -- I prefer to try to use conforming clothes whenever possible, although the Dyncreator script can be good because you can conform to mostly right, convert, and let the clothes 'settle'.
+1 Quote above is the best advice given in this thread.
Poser 11 is half off over at Rendo until the 31st of March, good time to get it. As for me, I use both programs, but I tend to prefer DAZ Studio, as it seems to load content faster, and is a bit more intuitive for me to work with. Not to mention the ever so awesome price tag!
As a third of a century veteran of commercial computing, I couldn't agree with this more. My advice before buying anything computer related is always as follows:
1) What task do you wish to perform?
2) What software do you need to best perform that task?
3) What hardware and operating system do you need to run the software that performs your task?
I evaluated Poser and found it difficult to use but I loved the 830 page manual. I found DAZ Studio much easier to use but I hated the (at the time) zero page manual. This is, of course, based entirely on my own subjective experience.
Cheers,
Alex.
With Daz Studio you get 5 free figures. Genesis, Genesis 2 Female, Genesis 2 Male, Genesis 3 Female & Genesis 3 Male. All genesis figures have the ability to mix morphs very easily to get a more custom appearence.
I bout Poser 10 at 49.99 about a year or so back, and still haven't put the work into it to say I've "got my money's worth" because I just generally use DAZ|Studio. I like Poser's dynamic cloths when they work (instead of bogging down the whole laptop), and I learned node-based shaders on P5 & P6, but DS has always had a better UI for my liking, and has always had at least one edition offered for free. I'm not upgrading Poser unless it's free, or I have reason to spend the asked price on it.
Yes, DAZ figures are top of the line. Everyone wants them. :-) Are they merchant resources though?
When I put "open source" in my previous post -- I know better than to post before daylight -- I was wrong. Paul and Pauline are "merchant resources." But my understanding of their EULA is...someone could take Paul/Pauline into ZBrush, re-sculpt them into other figures, then retopo (or not), and sell the sculpted figure. For a game engine or whatever.
I posted that interp on another forum, and a couple of members agreed...then another said, "better contact SM to be sure." I never did write SM because the idea of resculpting Pauline turned out to be a passing fancy, as usual. But if someone did want to sculpt figures for games or whatever, it'd be convenient to start w/a pre-made base. :-)
Genesis is not a merchant resource. not any of the 3 generations of Genesis
That sounds iffy to me...
Better just to read the EULA yourself:
http://store.smithmicro.com/sellers/cpstaff/license/PoserPro-EULA.pdf
I think the general problem is a lack of understanding what a merchant resource is, so when Nerd3D used the term merchant resource to distinguish Pauline from an Open Source figure, a lot of people simply didn't understand what it meant. A merchant resource is an item that is specifically produced for a purchaser to buy and resell in it's entirety, provided that the second party makes X number of modifications and follows whatever other restrictions the creator of the merchant resource tacks on. That's as opposed to open source , which means that the item is completely free to use, for any purpose, without restriction. This means that the Poser figures are no more or less a merchant resource in the traditional context than the DAZ figures are. Yes, you can do radical morphs and redesigns to the base figure, add new textures, etc., and put those modifications up for sale, BUT, that is contingent on whoever buying the item already having purchased Poser 11/Pauline from SMicro and you can't include any of her geometry or rigging as part of your package. As near as I can tell, the sole difference between Pauline and the new DAZ figures or Dawn, is that you MAY be be allowed to use Pauline in a videogame without an additional licencing agreement from SM, though I haven't seen that directly confirmed.
best $8 I've spent yet. I use this script all the time for clothes to look more natural.
best $8 I've spent yet. I use this script all the time for clothes to look more natural.
If you're doing renders for images, I'd stick with Daz. Take the $200 and get an iClone package. Poser doesn't offer much else that Daz doesn't.