The futile search for Genesis 9 Male clothes
Ron Knights
Posts: 2,045
I haven't purchased many Genesis 9 items. I decided to do some research and update my Wish List.
It took a long time to scroll through the "Unisex" Genesis 9 clothing selection. I giggle when using the word "Unisex" because it's not really accurate. There just isn't any division between male and female clothes.
My arm and hand get tired scrolling though so many ladies garments looking for some good male clothes. And there aren't all that many male clothes.
So I give up for a time and look for male hair. At least there is a better selection of male hair, even if I need to scroll past all the female hair to find it.
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Speaking as someone who buys any reasonable male hair that comes along, there have been a decent number of ordinary guy hair styles for G9.
Ordinary clothes for guys - particularly if you're looking for retro or historical - are comparatively scarce.
I bought some from IH Kang yesterday, the have many "normal" style sets both for G9 and earlier figures, and most are on sale right now. Their older clothing generally also work fine on G9, here's a G3 suit and a G8 oufit autofitted to G9.
If you can find Mal3D, and I can't (thought he was at 3DShards, but I can't see him there, or at the other usual suspect sites of Rendo, DevientArt & RenderHub) he does good male clothing that does not seem to be slightly inflated or grip the wearer too closely. Mal3imagery is really good. I feel that the IH Kang's clothes, particularly the suits seem to grip a bit snugly. , but if that's all there is... Oh well.
Otherwise, I also need to find some good <very cheap> and low system impact male suits myself, and so far the least bad on G8M I have is a freebie Black tie suit from Wilmap for G1.
Regards,
Richard
Edited to correct myself. Sorry
Richard, did you mean https://www.daz3d.com/mal3imagery? He still has a store at DAZ and is my favorite PA for masculine clothing, along with https://www.daz3d.com/ih-kang. Those two have the best supplies for normal, everyday outfits for men. I can autofit the G8/G8.1M clothes to G9B/M pretty easily. Only a few shoes give me fits and I have some G9 shoes I can use.
I had to correct G8B/M to G9B/M. Never type with a headache. And a cat who wants something.
Yes, I did & you have explained why I couldn't find him elsewhere. Doh!
I was sure he'd left. Gaah! I was conflating HyperTaf (of Winter Trendy fame who did/does equal quality female clothing) who has left and Mal3imagery who hasn't. My humblest appologies for the inadvertantly incorrect info.I have edited the post above but left the original struck out to show my stupidity.
Regards,
Richard
Clean shirt, new shoes
And I don't know where I am goin' to
Silk suit, black tie (black tie)
I don't need a reason why
They come runnin' just as fast as they can
I'm never happy with the choices, am I
'Cause every girl crazy 'bout a sharp-dressed man
(ZZ Top)
IH Kang has a lot of male clothing in the Featured artist deal today. I have quite a few, but they are all pretty starchy. meaning stiff looking. I like that relaxed, lived in a bit look
If there's one thing that the release of Genenis 9 absolutely proved, it's that having a unisex base figure wasn't the miraculous "fix"that some thought it would be, as it certainly didn't usher in a huge selection of new male clothing and accessories. Right now the figure with the best selection of male clothing is Genesis 8, but a lot of the stuff made for dforce isn't all that great.
Didn't they do the unisex before? Was it an earlier version of Genesis?
I think there's several reasons for the lack of male content, the biggest one that is often discussed is lack of demand (vs female content).
This is also probably why there hasn't been a flood of male content for Genesis 9, because these assets on female characters wouldn't be deemed "sexy" enough.
That doesn't mean there isn't a dedicated base of customers that would buy male content but as a PA, I have to weigh up whether that niche support and subsequent ROI is enough to justify the cost in time to produce those assets so that I can pay my bills and put food on the table.
This is even more difficult these days because of all the promotions and discounts (and therefore reliance on lower unit pricing/volume of sales vs standard unit pricing). I've even had female content that I thought would do well absolutely tank.
Another reason is that male content can be more complex to make due to layering, multiple assets and looser fit - conversely a lot of female content is tight fitting and is either a single piece like a dress, or separates that don't come into contact with each other. Greater technical complexity = longer time to produce and test = higher barrier for ROI.
I'm just speaking for myself and obviously can't speak for other PA's, but these are all things I have to consider before starting a new project, which is a real shame because I would love to make some clothes for the chaps!
The original Genesis, but they went to seperate male/female bases with Genesis 2 and continued with that model for the next 3 and a half generations (I refuse to consider Genesis 8.1 as a seperate generation) until Genesis 9.
Yep, they did: Genesis 1. And there were some good reasons for going back to separate M&F base figures. I remain unconvinced that those reasons evaporated in the intervening years. More likely forgotten or trumped by arguments that the clothing could/would be shared and have since.proved to be less than accurate. I honestly have yet to see a male body builder in a triangle bikini (and I'd probably laugh hysterically if I ever did) - most clothes are sex diffentiated by cut, style and convention and to say otherwise is to argue against reality.
Regards,
Richard
Two good places to start looking for clothes made for men:
1. Daz Original bundle with a male character.
2. Filtering clothes for G8M, to easily see the ones made for G8M and G9.
It would likely show a bit too much to not be moderated pretty fast once shared in the gallery :P
So, not a bodybuilder wearing a bikini, but Ivar 9 wearing clothes and hairs made for Van Helsing 9 with an expression made for Olympia 9:
https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/user/6244146477531136#image=1346635
I can also list a couple of renders where I did the opposite, using products made for men on women, but if you want to see more examples of men wearing women's clothes, check Zicon's gallery:
https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/user/4538512724459520
Ron, when Julian 9 came out, Mada made a masculine outfit that I purchased. Living in Colorado, this one is something that is very relevant to what is recommended, though a brighter color on the jacket or a vest if hunting so you don't get shot by another hunter.
https://www.daz3d.com/trekline-for-genesis-9 and its https://www.daz3d.com/trekline-for-genesis-9-texture-add-on
I also used shaders on it for a more non-hunting version.
Thanks for the responses, friends.
I am in an uncertain holding pattern right now. I've pretty much settled on Senior characters. I want to express emotion and silliness whenever possible.
I want to do acrylic paintings based on them. I live in a senior citizen housing building. So far everyone loves my paintings!
I still look at increasing the variety of my DAZ Studio content...
I agree putting men in dresses is likely to a be a relatively niche requirement, but there is clothing that is more unisex. In particular uniforms, either military, or for trades. A lot of sports clothing is also close to unisex, eg: diving suits, riding gear, baseball etc. Sci-Fi is a pretty popular genre for many users here, and the ability to put the same fleet uniforms on both genders will appeal to a lot of users.
Years ago I read a few novels about Will Trent (he's currently featured on a TV show).
The books went into great detail about how men's police and fire uniforms do NOT work for women.
The proportions are wrong. In addition, most men are bigger & taller than most women. It was dangerous for the women to wear men's uniforms.
It was considered a major accomplishment for women to finally get uniforms for their own sex.
So I won't even consider "unisex" clothes.
Sorry, but I find this reasoning incredibly flawed.
Real world clothing and clothing in Daz Studio are not analogous. Daz Studio clothing does not come in pre-made sizes where you then have to try to find the best size for your characters to try to squeeze into, Daz Studio clothing (mostly) automatically resizes and reshapes itself to fit the character it's put on.
Proportion differences between figures is exactly what morph following exists to address. Differences in the actual styling of men's and women's clothing is potentially a valid objection (although given that many outfits are not meticulously realistically modelled anyway, it's arguable if such gender inaccuracies are actually significant), but any user of DS has to accept that the way the program and content handle clothing fits is inherently unrealistic. In the real world, a 28B bra doesn't magically turn into a 40F bra when a different woman puts it on.
If cross-fitting a uniform is unacceptably inaccurate to you because men and women are different sizes, then by any reasonable interpretation the entire way that DS puts clothes on figures should be too. If those are the standards you're demanding, then I don't see that there is any way that Daz and vendors could expect to meet your expectations without a complete paradigm shift in the way that clothing is handled in the program.
Ron, if you are going to focus on older gentlemen, well by living with a group of them, along with the ladies, I bet you know what you are looking for.
Genesis 8 and 8.1 had older characters, morphs, hair, and clothing that should work on G9 relatively well (clothing that is). Hair may need conversion or help.
There's more examples of both on my own site.
Aha! So that's why all the female clothes have bare midriffs! Thanks for the insight.
Some of us hoped, but day to day life in the Daz store proved the futility of that hope. That being said, I still seem to have a reasonable wardrobe for male characters. A lot of it is armor and fantasy wear, though.
Real life uniforms do not have Daz Studio's autofollow, which naturally 3D ones do, so can adjust to different sizes and proportions pretty well. Naturally extreme shapes like monsters will stretch the outfits in ways that they will look pretty awful.
I was quite happy to find a wealth of "Senior Content" offered for Genesis 8. That includes such characters as Mabel 8.
I made an acrylic painting of Mabel 8 and showed it to my friends. They loved her!
As for men wearing women's clothes, etc. OK I see how DAZ Studio handles the clothing differently.
However, the problem still remains. As someone said above, (to paraphrase?!) My weighlifters won't get caught dead wearing a bikini!
Also, I don't want military or hunting outfits for my senior men.
Edited to add:
My statement listed in the head of this thread still stands. I resent the need to wade through all the ladies skimp wear (etc) in search of men's clothing.There might be a few outfits that would work for both men and women.
But I shouldn't need to wade through all that content to find what I want. It would be better to let men and women have their own sections,
Just to be clear this is my own opinion and a potential reason, rather than insight - but bare midriffs also support the "sexy sells" discussion.
Trust me, you don't want to see my bare midriff or chest!
Maybe men should start wearing coffee shops, there seems to be more than enough of those.
And as if to hammer a nail in the general theme of conversation, today's promotion focusing on male products includes only one new outfit, and that one is clearly leaning towards a more feminine flattering aspect ie: highwater slacks and no socks on a male uniform?
And, for variety, some bus stops and bathrooms.
Got really excited when I saw Aeon Soul promo this morning. Bundle flew into my cart because I thought it was male outfits. Wasn't until I looked at them I realised they were 3 sets of poses :-( Okay MALE poses, but I tend to lean towards Faber and Jepe for that. I already have all the males outfits from previous generations that suit me. I agree about the one male outfit today, disappointing. And the irony - I have all the 'Additional products used in promo images' section. Mal and HnC as recommended above.