Strong Female Characters... I was so hyped...
BlazeMystEra
Posts: 465
Usually I don't start this kind of topic. Usually I'm not on the 'this is wrong' side of the community... usually...
But since this is a topic that is very important for me... I have to post this, because if I don't it would go against what I try to stand for.
Please DAZ, if you advertise for "strong female characters, acessoires and more", please don't go on to give us hair, headwear, one of the 'usual' female characters, clothes that show a lot of skin and seem a bit impractical and cute headmorphs. You not only join the choir of people who unwittingly make it harder for women, but also deminish very good items of your vendors.
Honestly: they all look great and there was a lot of work behind them for the vendors. There were also testers and you yourself had people test these items as I understand it... all people involved in the making of these products did a great work... but really... "strong female" isn't what comes to my mind with these things... and I would SO love to to see more stuff in the store where exactly that comes to my mind.
Yeah I know I'm only one voice and you're a store, you have to sell your stuff, the vendors want to make money and all of you should make money... definitley.
But - dear and awesome team who generates the amazing pics and programming for the sales and the whole site - in the progress of selling and making money, do you think that maybe you could try to work on such wordings? Pretty please? That would be amazing!
Thanks for reading my plea. :)
edit: obviosly I can't type or spell, so if there are still typos... please set them free in a natural environment of your choosing :)
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Comments
Agreed.
Yeah. I love Arki's products to death, and certainly both of them can be worn by a strong female character, that's not something that's any less true for... oh, 90% of the outfits for the ladies in the store. I mean, I'm also a big fan of "Strong does not equal Fighter" (the strongest woman I've seen in movies in a while was the Wife in Red Cliff (don't remember her name). Why would be a spoiler, but she was a complete non-combat character) but if all I'm going on is their wardrobe, hair, and yet another pretty fair skinned girl then... while today's offerings aren't indicitve of a typical DID, they're not especially strong either.
Xiao Qiao? The strategist's wife (who went to talk to Cao Cao and had to be saved, iirc)?
Or Sun Shangxiang? Don't remember if she married Liu Bei in the movie, but she's historically his third (iirc) wife.
Looks like a typical store offering today. When I pulled up the advert it pulled up an image of a sexy woman in a playboy bunny style outft. This is the march madness backdrop I guess. Scrolling down I found the content seems boiler plate. Okay if that's what you're into .But did not give me a strong woman vibe.
What would you like to see that would represent a strong female character? Something like Karen 7 (a superheroine), or something based more in reality like a business suit or poses for a mother and children?
A mix of all of them would easily work
Personally? I'd like to see both. Both of those examples, IMHO, are good examples of strong female characters. I guess you could argue that the ladies dressed up in barely there skimpwear that we get all the time could count too, but if a consumer was fed oatmeal every single day for over a month or two, wouldn't they get tired of it as well?
But yeah, I pretty much second the OP's sentiments. For Daz, today's sale in the store is focused around "Strong female characters". But for me, it was Tuesday.
Not even Tuesday cuz no weekly freebie unless you have $$ to spend on new items :(
Last freebie I got was 3 weeks ago
To me it's more the 'attitude' of the character; the pose, the poise, the predicament that would make a strong female. The clothes she wears would accentuate that - ironic that it's clothes and man that is 'famous':
"Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man,"
The new dress looked ok, but I have enough such items and the other new item did not grab me in the slightest, so I passed on both, but not for any 'not a strong female item' reason.
I was just going to say what Simon did, being "strong" has a lot to do with the character's personality as well. Now DAZ can't really sell personality though, that's something we have to put into our characters ourselves. As a simple example, my own original character wears fantasy skimpwear (in most of her pics at least), and defeats enemies, so you might say she's a "strong woman". However, I also imagine her being naive, innocent and not fond of chores or studies. You could make a complete bimbo in a power pantsuit or a very mature and powerful leader who only wears a semi-transparent robe.
Let PAs know what you like though. Everyone's going to have a different idea of what constitutes a strong female character...obviously, since we're talking about it. :)
:snicker:...is that a reference to a certain fighting game movie? ;)
I would be satisfied with a literal interpretation of strong. Muscles, and poses that accentuate physical strength.
For me, I find all the female poses where the woman's pelvis is tilted way forward and then she's leaning back so her spine looks deformed really makes me roll my eyes.
Any more, I'm more likely to pick up male poses and apply them to women, because they don't look so much like f'in pinups all the time.
The thing is, the market clearly favors sexy bimbo stuff, so it's hard to ask them to throw money away giving us what WE want. :/
True, but it won't hurt if they know. Then at least they can't say you didn't tell them (but they will point out if you don't buy them).
Serene Night: G3 muscle morphs have been on sale recently (I bought them) and most likely the G2F ones too. Do you have all those?
I followed the link hoping maybe there was a sale on Gia products.
Are you sure:
http://www.daz3d.com/i13-casual-male-pose-collection-for-the-genesis-3-male-s
;-)
Aren't you all being equally limiting in your views of a "strong woman"? Opinions expressed so far seem to believe that clothing is the determining factor. I'm personally drawn to strong women, but in my experience, that quality has nothing to do with attire.
Perhaps a challenge for one's abilities.
The one who went to talk to Cao Cao, I believe. Yes, she had to be saved, but that talk had some pretty significant impact on the battle (in the movie, anyway) As I said, Strong does not have to mean combat capable. (I'm actually getting a little tired of Combat Capable = Strong Heroine, if only because in entirely too many cases, their combat skills and attitude is the extent of their personality.)
But then again, I'm in agreement with Simon that "Strong" is really a personality/attitude thing, rather than what the character is wearing. Clothes can help with visual cues, but a stripper can be a strong character as easily as a CEO or a knight.
Not that it matters right now anyway. All my budget for this month went to the 7th Sea Kickstarter, so I'm out for the rest of March Madness, so my dollars aren't going to vote.
Funny you should say that. I own lots of pose sets that I use for starters and awhile back I was trying for specialized looking pinup poses, but always felt they were a little off, not feminine enough IMO. I was trying to emulate some fashion model poses I had seen at a photoshoot. Then I discovered Shimuzus Inspire set and discovered that the very feature of tilting the hip and spine was a core part of the package and made the difference for what I was trying to achieve. I now find that I manually add this to other pose sets when needed.
I have tried male poses for warrior type women, but there are small features in stance and movement that are different between the sexes and I want to see this when possible.Whenever I use male poses on females, the usually look masculine to me.
Like one of the "40 worst Rob Liefeld Drawings"? Seriously, vulgar language aside, I think people doing render art could learn a thing or two from the examples on that page. And, conversely, Liefeld could storyboard with Studio or Poser and be able to draw feet that look like feet, and swords that point in the right directions.
http://www.progressiveboink.com/2012/4/21/2960508/worst-rob-liefeld-drawings
Mothers, Businesswomen, Sportswomen, Policewomen, Firewomen, Armywomen, Politicians and what have you not... but all that without the garage-calender-vibe.
Poses and Clothing especially. But also Characters of all ages and with skin that shows that they're alive. There are amazing characters in the store and with the morphs available there's much that can be done to work on age and shape... and yeah... one could pose themselfes...
I mean... there's nothing wrong with showing skin and there's nothing wrong with being sexy, absolutley not. The problem for me is: sexy, skinshowing, thin, beautiful women in poses that are everything other than comfortable (I always wondered why there are so many poses that have the woman's buttock stuck out like she had a bad hipproblem, not just for sexy poses, but - less often but still - also for everyday poses) are not what depicts a strong woman per se. sure they can be strong. But I doubt female soldiers or firewomen would run around with their buttocks stuck out, wearing high heels, showing a lot of skin, when they do their job. I doubt a mother would do it while just caring for her kid. OK... she might stick her buttocks out, so the kid can sit comfortably.
It's not like I wasn't happy to see the "Ravendress" for G3. And I always love me some additional Morphs. Todays stuff's awesome and I admire the people who are able to create these things... It's just not a symbol I'd choose to advertise strong women. I mean... if I had to advertise strong men I'd not choose underwearmodels how ever muscular they might be... it is sexy, sure... and they might be strong men... but if I wanted to symbolize a strong man I'd choose a father, a guy in uniform... just like I'd choose for women.
Actually that's exactly what Simon and I were both saying. Personality, personal responsibility, and accomplishments are how one should really judge a "strong woman", but DAZ isn't selling any of that. :)
Eschergirls (I think that's the name?) is a site dedicated to that, but I don't like them because they come across as being authorities on the female anatomy and nitpick absolutely anything wrong with a drawing. That example you posted however is hilarious.
Yep, it's why both pose creators and artists alike need to use the waist and neck posing dials (the "Waist Bend, Neck Side-Side, etc ones.) . Genesis 3 has even more torso sections to screw up poses with, which is why those dials are more important than ever.
Those are all good examples Blaze and I hope PAs will consider them. Even if it's just poses interacing with children that come included with a texture or character with a "motherly" theme, it would be nice.
What is this thread in relation to? I've seen no ads?
... Read the 40 worst Liefeld images. Then read the update with 40 more. Has the man never seen another human being in his life? He clearly seems to think women are made of some kind of rubber or something.
But yes, we could use a greater variety in the female characters and clothing. I love that we got a fuller figured character this generation, and Sickleyield's Big Beautiful Genesis 2 morphs so we can more easily have characters that aren't built like the common Hollywood types. But we could use some more realistic clothing and poses. I know there's a few sets, but G3F has a glut of pinup and sexy poses these days.
Liefeld..and I am not a fan of his work...was not about anatomy or storytelling or even consistency. He was about image and energy and kinetic action.
Are his women any less anatomically inaccurate than say Jessica Rabbit?
I mean, he's not good at art, but judge his baness on what he was trying to do and failed at.
this :)
yeah, i was hyped too.
'NEW Strong Female Characters, Accessories' was a great tagline, but this was totally not the day to run it.
me, i was hoping that marketing was finally ready to give us a nice price on the Gia 7 HD add-on...
but no. it was not to be. :)
Liefeld wasn't just bad at drawing women. He had a lot of trouble with male figures too. The problem I had was not with his style but that he had so many imitators. He changed a lot of my favorite books with artists stylistically imitating him which was a shame. But I did get weaned from my comic book habit at least until digital ones appeared.
And feet.
I don't think clothing demonstrates a woman's strength either, although anyone who can stagger around in six inch heels all day is made of tougher stuff than I am. What demonstrates a woman's strength is her response to the situation she finds herself in - land girls, suffragettes or the Essex factory workers who downed tools in the seventies to strike for equal pay and kept going until the bitter end, long after it began to get uncomfortable for them. Characters like Daz's Mildred come to mind - she looks like she's got a bit of gumption and could easily see off Typical Vicky with the business end of her frying pan before putting in a full day's work and then shedding her pinny for Friday night at the dance hall. I bet Vicky can't tackle a glass of stout like Mildred can either :)
+1
EDIT
I though, cool, not yet been impressed with most of the products on offer; they were well made etc, but nothing to tempt other than a couple.
This email came and I thought cool, lets see.
Well it was more of the same. Girly stuff.