JMC - What is it?

Angel

I was sondering what the red morphs JMC that are always locked were. What they are good for, and why they are locked. I was told you need those, to create your own figure but I don't know what they even are, how to make them, or why they are important. Can anyone tell me? I know it has something to do with making the figure bend well, but.. ERC freezes shouldnt be such a HUGE burdun. I mean if its really like that. That makes the fun of ERC freezing a job nobody wants if you have to create 1000 micro morphs, for each and every single chacter you create. There has to be a faster way... And even if that is the case. I dont know how to get a JMC to work... I know nothing about them as it's never talked about. I just tried to google it and came up with nothing... It's not even mentioned in the documentation about creating you own morphs... Either that, or I didnt read it well. I hope someone here knows what I'm talking about. I love making my own people, it's so much fun, but if their bends fall apart because I didnt spend 6 weeks making micro morphs... Wow... I mean... really there has to be a faster way... That's an unrealistic amount of work.

prixat

Try JCM, Joint Controlled Morphs not JMC! 

kitakoredaz

Hi,, yes JCM = joint controlled morph,, then there are  MCM or ERC , (Erc freeze,,) etc,,,,

I am not old user of  poser and DAZ figure,, then These words actually make me mad before ^^;

After all,,    it is system to make link of parameters, then make parameter to change other parameter values.

JCM is  moprh,,,  when we move Joint =bone,,  the morph auto change  parameter value.

 

as you know,, when we joint rotate,  translation , or scale,, actually we change value of these parameters.

 

Now I have one parameter,,,  "BoneA rotateX"   it is parameter to deform mesh of Figure. 

If I set this parameter value as 30, it  rotate  boneA  with X axis 30 ,. then mesh deform by weight map.

 

but I find,, when I set "BoneA rotateX" = 80,  there is mesh distortion.. then hope to reduce problem.

Fortunately we can make morph.   I make new morphA  (named as "JCMboneArotateX80")

then apply it,, and adjust current (rotateX 80) mesh shape... but,,, as you know, the distortion may change,,

how I set Rotate X value.  no one  hope to make new morphs for all rotationX value,,,(may need minus and plus too)

 

but If  morphA auto applied, and change the parameter  value (delta of vertex movement) with "BoneA rotateX" value,

"approximately" it can auto adjust mesh distortion...  (at least,, it can reduce problem)

 

at start point,,  I know,, when "BoneA rotateX" = 80,  I need "morphA" (JCM) = 100%

(because  I make morphA when BoneA rotateX 80, then it should work well for the pose shape)

and when   "BoneA rotateX" = 0,  (zero pose), I know my actor mesh is clean,, then need to set  "morphA" (JCM) = 0%

 

finally  I set  ERC (make link or set formula,,,)  for two parameetrs,,, "morphA"  and "BoneA rotateX"

  then when "BoneA rotateX" value change "0" to "80", moprhA auto change value as linea from "0" to "100%" ( or 0 to 1.00) .

 

it means,, morphA is controlled by joint rotation  = joint controlled morh..  and I can say,, I made new JCM for boneA rotate X,,,

(hope it can be some help to understand these words ^^;)

mjc1016

Angel - Wings said:

 That makes the fun of ERC freezing a job nobody wants if you have to create 1000 micro morphs, for each and every single chacter you create. AA

And that what separates the good from the really great characters.  The more custom morphs/refinements there are for the specific character the better...and longer it takes to make it.  Because, yes, they do need to be individually done, one at a time.  No, there doesn't have to be thousands of them, but the more the character deviates from the base, the more that will need to be created.  And even with a 100 or more, it is still less work and time than creating a new mesh, rigging it and weight mapping it for each character.

evilded777

mjc1016 said:

Angel - Wings said:

 That makes the fun of ERC freezing a job nobody wants if you have to create 1000 micro morphs, for each and every single chacter you create. AA

And that what separates the good from the really great characters.  The more custom morphs/refinements there are for the specific character the better...and longer it takes to make it.  Because, yes, they do need to be individually done, one at a time.  No, there doesn't have to be thousands of them, but the more the character deviates from the base, the more that will need to be created.  And even with a 100 or more, it is still less work and time than creating a new mesh, rigging it and weight mapping it for each character.

You are just so calm and rational, logical and reasoning in your arguments. Are you a Vulcan? :)

mjc1016

evilded777 said:

You are just so calm and rational, logical and reasoning in your arguments. Are you a Vulcan? :)

No...blood's red and eyebrows don't behave that way...

Angel

K, so how do you go about createing JMC's?

Richard Haseltine

Well, first you need a morph that needs to kick in when a joint moves - a morph to correct bending, or a muscle morph for example. Set the joint to the bend and the morph to the value it should have (100%, usually) at maximum and then right click on the paarmtrs pane and set ti to Edit mode, then right-click on the joint rotation and select ERC Freeze. The joint should be listed as the controller, the morph should be the controlled item - if it is click Accept and check it works, if it does File>Save as>Support Asset>Morph Asset to save the morph.

Angel

Well, first you need a morph that needs to kick in when a joint moves

Don't know how to do that.

Set the joint to the bend and the morph to the value it should have (100%, usually) at maximum

Don't know how to do that.

 

 

 

Angel

Are you telling me, that if I pose legs out (Because thats where the deformation happens most. That, and sitting poses. That if I bend the legs with pose out and fix it, in zbrush, and the ERC freeze, that my morph that I have applied will for ever, when I do leg out poses, will use the zburhed morph? I don't wanna sound like a noob, but when it comes to joints, ERC freeze, saving morphs. I'm as noob as it comes. Try not to expect me to know what you are talking about, or assuming I know how to Set the joint to the bend and the morph to the value

kitakoredaz

"if I bend the legs with pose out and fix it, in zbrush, and the ERC freeze, that my morph that I have applied will for ever, when I do leg out poses, will use the zburhed morph?"

Yes, it seems almost right I think.

 

then Richard adviced you to use ERC freeze way,, it is easy way I think.

but at same time,, I recommend to try more  manuall way, to understand clear,, what actually doing, about JCM and bone rotation.

then recommend try this tutoriall.

 

http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/userguide/creating_content/assembling/tutorials/creating_joint_controlled_morphs/start

it is a little old tutoriall made for ds 4 (not 4.5 or 4.8 4.9)

,, but most of principal not change.. then If you find something wrong, or something not work,,or can not find tool (which is replaced)

, ask again please.  some tools has already changed. then ask here, which process you get difficulity,, or can not find way etc. 

 

kitakoredaz

The tutroiall, show more smart JCM . the JCM work only when you applied one character morph, and bend sholder.

because Same JCM can not fit different character mesh.. then we need to set ERC (link) for JCM  with  bend rotation, and with  character morph too.

 

Choose for which character morph,  you make JCM to reduce which joint rotation,,

 you said,, pose legs out .(deformation happens most).

 

then,,  when you set "left Thigh bend" node >side-side(Z rotate)  to limit value,, you make morph to correct current shape by z brush and import it 

( I suspect, you already know, how to make morph for posed figure.  ) and make new controller .  then save it as morph first.  

after that try ERC freeze, or the document tutoriall with Legs Out parametrer. ("left Thigh bend" node >side-side(Z rotate) )

Angel

Thank you. I'll run some tests later and see what happens.

Angel

I hate to necro this thread but I'm stuck. On Daz 4.9 I dont know how to link a morph to a bend. Can anyone help? I get stuck after Morph Loader Pro... I could use a short step by step instruction perferable with print screens or a video on what to do next.

Zev0

Male-M3dia

mjc1016 said:

Angel - Wings said:

 That makes the fun of ERC freezing a job nobody wants if you have to create 1000 micro morphs, for each and every single chacter you create. AA

And that what separates the good from the really great characters.  The more custom morphs/refinements there are for the specific character the better...and longer it takes to make it.  Because, yes, they do need to be individually done, one at a time.  No, there doesn't have to be thousands of them, but the more the character deviates from the base, the more that will need to be created.  And even with a 100 or more, it is still less work and time than creating a new mesh, rigging it and weight mapping it for each character.

This takes the longest time when I make my shapes for the store. Because the shapes are generally larger than the default M7/G3M, they become extreme shapes and need corrections in the shoulder and thigh/hip area. Luckily once you get used to it you can generate lots of jcms by bending the joint, set the corrective morph on then right-click and select the ERC option (not at my computer so someone can give the correct option. Making jcms and mcms are far easier than doing them for V4.

Angel

k so i went to link it to a character in the Hierarchy and then this pops up... No idea what this means. I got it to work the other way he shows how in the video but the first way in the video messes up.

kitakoredaz

 you seems tried to set Character (Alexiia) as "sub-component" of JCM (leg Forward R?) .  that means when you change JCM value, it will be multipled and change Character morph value, f you had set the Character morph as Controller of JCM already, both will  become "controller" for each. it should circulate,, then  cause erroer. (though I do not know, how you set etc)

 In your pic, you set ERC on JCM (leg Forward R) in property hieralchy pane , then you  only need to set  Character morph(Alexia) as "Controller" of JCM  (= sub component) .

 DS auto set JCM as sub-component of Character (you can check it, when you change current working property from JCM to Character)

 

 

 

 

Angel

i got it to work but now i run into a new issue... leg forward works when i move the thighs forward but now all the sudden if i move the shin backward the rigging goes nuts on me but i never altered or even touched the shin rigging... am i supposed to adjust rigging to shape when I do a JMC? or... or am i not loading the morph right? or is there another reason why it would do that?

kitakoredaz

No. adjust rigging to the shape may only need when you make FBM .

If it work correclty, when you bend foward, your import , and setting seems right.

but  you may need to set limit JCM (leg Forward L)  to wrok  between min 0 to max 1.

With out it,  JCM change value to minus, then apply inverse defomation, with  rig rotate backwards. 

Angel

kitakoredaz said:

No. adjust rigging to the shape may only need when you make FBM .

If it work correclty, when you bend foward, your import , and setting seems right.

but  you may need to set limit JCM (leg Forward L)  to wrok  between min 0 to max 1.

With out it,  JCM change value to minus, then apply inverse defomation, with  rig rotate backwards. 

I did set the limit. =(

 

0% Low and 100% High

kitakoredaz

If you alredy set JCM limit, it not work to minus. then when you rotate backward, the JCM never change value.

I suppose you set JCM as sub-component of the rig rotation, type delta add.  

if it still change value to plus,  you need to set ERC correctly.

 if it deform by weight map only, then when you rotate rig backward , it show ugry defomation,

you may need to think make Backward JCM as same as Foward JCM.  

 

kitakoredaz

Then If you feel, there was something wrong about ERC setting and need to confirm, hope  you show more detail , of your JCM in property hieralchy, how you set up . (step value,  minus plus etc, subcomponent, controller etc). without it, I can only suspect what is going on.

eg,, if you have not set adjust rigging to the shape for your FBM,, or you miss erc freeze, then when you pose, joint move without intention,,etc etc.

Angel

I think what it is is that my JMC is too big of a "fix" lol... i have to ajudt rigging to shape in order for it to work..

Angel

Somethins not right though cause doing a JMC for the bend of upper arm or thigh results in the forearm rigging or shin becoming distorted and still messed with the rigging when its at 0%

I did Leg Foward L to be at 0% when in T-Pose. If I bend the leg forward and bend the shin gets screwed If I bend it as well...  so I have to adjust rigging to shape. Then when I do that. If I have the shin still bent and bend the leg backward, it deforms again when the the leg is at -35... I'm really confused here this rigging stuff is... just... OO

 

lol

 

Angel

There is one other possability. What if your morph is really extreame? The Natural Hip Rigging of G3 is very anti clothing when she is in a sit pose. the purpose of this JMC is to fix that. In this snip the red is the natural and the blue is the morph. I mean maybe I'll just save it as a normal morph... if I cant get this to work But I would rather it be part of the G3 if I can.

Zev0

You are dislodging the leg from the hip, causing the glutes to over expand in size. You are going to run into all sorts of issues. Have you tried Bend Control? It adresses this problem. Also you are posing the leg up with the pelvis tilted backwards. Straighten that out then pose leg. Here is an example of a leg bent with Bend Control. I made BC because of the pinching around the groin area and unnatural thigh curve that used to bother me when a leg was bent.

Angel

Zev0 said:

You are dislodging the leg from the hip, causing the glutes to over expand in size. You are going to run into all sorts of issues. Have you tried Bend Control? It adresses this problem. Also you are posing the leg up with the pelvis tilted backwards. Straighten that out then pose leg. Here is an example of a leg bent with Bend Control. I made BC because of the pinching around the groin area and unnatural thigh curve that used to bother me when a leg was bent.

Yeah I have your bend control pack. Had it for a while now. What slider specificly are you using in the hip control pack in that image?

Zev0

All I did was tilt the pelvis forward.  Then applied hip and leg controller from BC then dialled up the Hip Adjuster morph (located under hip\bend control) on the corresponding leg. Sometimes you have to adjust the pose a bit to unsquash everything.

Angel

By tilt the pelvis foward you mean Pelvis Bend in the negitive value, right? Just want ot make sure its not a morph I dont see.

Zev0

Ye just bend it. It's not a morph.