Indie work just doesn't fit with daz pricing
rampart_1576840087
Posts: 504
Interesting how Daz continues to promote buy this one, 2 or 3 items to get a better price on something.
We are cajoled to buy stuff we don't want to get something we do want.
I rarely participate in any of these sales.
My interest is generally allong a specific type of content or genre.
Yes, I will speculateon something I think I can use at some time soon...
I have alot of content I bought thinking I could use it...3 years ago and still no go.
I think the prices for a lot of content has gone beyond nonsense as well.
Maybe this is Daz3d or the artist.
I think the fact content items are not one shot sales is ignored..
Constantly I see content that was released 2 or 3 years ago and is still at high prices.
I am an indie video producer. What I spend is what it costs me to make a video, which makes me no money.
So....I see a nice Stonemason content, which would be nice in one of my videos...oops it sells for $42.95.
No way I can afford that, prices overall in the shop have gone beyond reasonable.
I look for sales...but mostly I just find other sources for content and now I make alot of my own.
Not that I want to make my own...I have no choice. I cannot do otherwise...to expensive.
Is it just me? I mean everything in the Shop now seems to be a buy this or that content I don't want to get a better price on something I do want.
I don't recall this type of sales being so pervasive a year or so back. Then of course I haven't been around as long as others.
Someone mentioned March madness sales should be a good time to catch up on good prices for content...save my money for then.
March is almost here...so I will act on that recommendation and see what happens.
One thing I think Daz should really think about. Selling content has been a Golden Goose for sometime now, prices are going too high.
Now would be a good time to step up and improve Carrara so we can produce our own charcters and content with all the modeling tools more efficiently.
Someone at Daz needs to wake up because Adobe recently bought Mixamo, free character genrator, free animations, etc.
I got a great offer email offer for a huge package of their creative products at $30 per month for one year contract.
$360 per year, and I get every creative applicaiton they offer.
I appreciate Daz for the free application.
IMO they have moved towards free application to support their sale of 3rd party content items.
Daz appears to be moving completely away from providing state of the art tools for us to create our own content.
Carrara, Hexagon and Bryce are ignored. A shame to let such capable applications be neglected.
I am not priviledge to what works and what doesn't for Daz3d so my discussion is my own opinions... OK
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Comments
I can understand your feelings about the content, buy things for other things you do not really need and would be better spend on content you need.
Carrara, Hex and Bryce (i've got all 3, and don't use them for years anymore) all had there time.
Most content these days are created in zbrush, blender, silo, 3dcoat...
Daz3D is inexpensive compared to other sites like Turbosquid. At the same time what DAZ offers is far different then what Adobe is offering throught Mixamo so find what suits you best and do it. ITs just a different business model in the end
It's just you on pricing. I do 3d modeling in other communities and for other apps and there are quite a few stores that sell non rigged objects and characters for up to 10 times what you pay for assets here.
That is too bad about mixamo (LOVE their auto-rigger), I despise subscription based apps and I am not that fond of Adobe either. Let me purchase a one time perpetual license and I am happy. That is why I have upgraded my 3DSMax to the latest version.
I do agree about Carrara, Bryce and Hex, would love to see DAZ come out with new versions with new features. I wonder if it has more to do with manpower over neglect, guess time will tell.
mebbe they waiting for someone to make a hit movie in carrara. something for the users stories,
like “...accurate character tolerances made Daz a go-to solution on CAPTAIN AMERICA, THOR, and IRON MAN.” - RON MENDELL on the homepage http://www.daz3d.com/
http://www.daz3d.com/explore/user-stories/explore-solomon-jagwe
mebbe
I'd like to see either a more sophisticated built-in sculpting tool ("D-Former Pro"?) or a Blender bridge for those of us who can't afford ZBrush.
I too don't like Adobe - especially since they went to subscription. My old Photoshop CS5 and/or Gimp will have to suffuce.
Consider platinum club items. Although prices have gone up somewhat from a decade ago, with the appropriate sales you can still get many things dirt cheap. That won't work if you only want one or two items, but if you purchase a lot of content the price for joning will be worth it.
Watch for fastgrab items and special sales that offer 70% or more off. I think I've seen 95% off on rare occasions. Obviously you will need to not be on a deadline for these items. The fastgrabs benefitted me much more when I was unemployed and home during the day to watch for tham rather than at work, but I now still regularly find good deals in there on things I've wanted for a long time.
Don't think of the "buy this one, 2 or 3 items to get a better price" deals as sales. Ignore them if they aren't what you want, consider them just a nice bonus if you happen to want several of the new releases at once.
Consider bundles. If there are several things you want, you can can sometimes get a deal on them if you buy them all together in bundle form, whether a bundle normally found in the store or a special limited-time bundle like during the platinum club anniversary sale.
Look for more versitile items. I might see something that costs more than your average item, but it might be a construction pack that allows one to create dozens or hundreds of different combinations that if purchased as separate items would be unaffordable. I've seen pose packs with just a few poses in them, and pose packs with I think hundreds of poses in them. Sometimes products will be textures intended primarily for one product (example, the MFD) but they will also include textures for one or two other products (scarves, shawls, boots, etc.) which gives you a bit more of a deal than a single-item product. Sometimes I see things that in addition to being whatever they are, have pieces that could very easily be modified to be part of something else, thus doubling your value.
Don't forget to suplement your purchase items with free items. While you do have to do some weeding of items with problems and take the time, there are zillions of good items out there. (But, also remember they aren't really "free"... I just had to purchase a pair of 4TB backup drives... ouch... haha!)
Consider older items. Not to discourage you from new items, but to complement them. Items that have been around for many years are sometimes reduced greatly in price, even though they are just as good as brand new items. You might not even be aware of them since they don't make the news as a new release, you might ask around if you are looking for something specific, or burn a weekend and do a marathon browse the entire store. Themed sales also help remind people of some of the older content.
If you get a good deal on a gift card and know that you will use it eventually, take it. It's free money, unless you have no spending self control or something. Incidentally, I've been able to make use of the "buy x and get y% off a gift card", pick a cheap item you don't need and get a big gift card and you are still ahead.
Most importantly, don't stress out over sales. If there's an offer you can't effectively take advantage of, just ignore it, it's not a sale for you, it's just somebody else's sale.
If you were very careful, you could probably get away with not spending ANY money.
There's loads of free content out there, on ShareCG, Renderosity, and random stuff in other sites. I mean, go to the Freebie forum. Between Wilmap and all the lists of uniforms, morphs, etc? LOADS of stuff.
Plus the Friday Freebies and other stuff Daz gives out.
Then you can pick up free object modelers and UV mappers, and be able to make some content. Then there are free sites of textures, and so on.
So... there are a lot of options.
I pretty well said my thoughts. Yes, I have found and acquired alot of content a no charge. This is excellent,but requires alot of time trying to find something.
I am not married or joined to Daz3d. It has been a good source for my work.
It would be nice to know other members were concerned as I, in lieu of defending status quo.
As Mattymanx said, the prices here are a fraction of what you'll find in a lot of places for high quality stuff. Something else to consider as well; many, if not all, of the vendors here do this for a living, and find selling through DAZ much more rewarding than through some of the other similar shops you might find throughout the Internet.
I think DAZ is very well-suited to indie creators. The price point is incredibly accessible for what you get. Try getting a full cityscape the size of Urban Sprawl from any other 3D source for an equivalent price.
Even if prices are trending upwards a little, everything here is still incredibly affordable. And I'm not one to deny the skilled artists here a fair payday.
I sympathize with your concerns about the pricing becoming more aggressive; it's part of why Genesis 2 didn't get much traction with me. Stonemason's not a great example because he's been putting out (extremely good quality) work at premium prices for as long as I've been in this hobby, and that's been nearly seven years now. (in other words, Stonemason being expensive is not a new development).
Not so sympathetic to your concerns about spending time looking for free stuff; most things in life require you to spend either time or money, whichever you have more of.
Even some other sites that sell Daz items are even more expensive than Daz and Rendo.
While rendo seems about even on prices with Daz, places like sixus1 are a little steaper. But none of these sites compare to "professional" sites because then you are talking about hundreds-thousands of dollars.
When I first started making my first android game, I was quoted $600-800 just for a sprite sheet of a zombie animation. And that was just 1 character out of 22 I needed for my game. Also, that wasn't even for the model.
So yeah, while I haven't made a return on investment yet, I'm still able to re-use what I do have for other projects as well and eventually (finger's crossed) will come out ahead.
For the price per value I think the DAZ store is very compelling currently. If you can't afford the non-discount price of items just wishlist them and watch for the sales and deals. If you're smart you can combine multiple sales/offers plus PC+ discounts and get huge savings. Example stacking sales from a week ago:
Subtotal $117.42
Discount-$99.94
Grand Total$17.48
I failed to mention.. My work is video production. Where many Daz3d users are doing static images, which don't require anywhere near as much content.
Some of my work is 60 frames per second, not 1 frame. I use alot of content.
I do find Daz3d sales OK on occasion. Yet, I think the prices have really moved upward alot over the past few months on new items.
The sales for buy 1,2,and 3 items with 50,55,60 percent discount respectively are not very good when you apply the stuff you have to buy you don't want to the total.
I don't try to calculate the actual anymore... I just don't participate unless something really tweaks my interest for a current project..
I have been at this for over five years and I have alot of content from different vendors.
Usually I can edit some of the things I have with a modeler and don't have to buy content.
I do agree the PC+ is a good deal overall, and I have bought alot of PC+ items.
I also agree daz does make reasonablel efforts for bonus sales at various times.
The recent bonus packs for PC+ didn't save alot of money over regular PC+ prices, but they were attractive priced for me to participate.
I don't even look at Turbosquid, as I consider it more of a content site where buyers have serious backers for commercial work.
Yes, I do agree many sites that offer content are nowhere reasonable in price or quality as Daz3d. I don't buy from them.
If I were doing commercial work, prices probably wouldn't matter that much to me, especially if I had to make a payroll every week to a crew of developers.
Payroll and production expenses can make expensive content items more attractive even at higher prices.
If I had to produce the Urban Sprawl 2 mentioned above it would probably take me a day or more at least. On sale, it made sense for me to buy it
No, that doesn't mean I could do as good a job as Stonemason, but I could produce something passable for scenes (not closeups)
Since all my work is "create now, hopefully get paid later" I too have yet to ever take advantage of the "buy 1, 2 or 3 items" sales as they are never anything I need. Occasionally there is something I would like, but usually only 1 item so it goes in my wishlist for when it's on sale buy itself later on.
Half my work is comics and the other have is android games (which is like you, using many frames of animation)
When I was able to afford the PC membership, I was able to get many items I wanted as they were really cheap. But now I'm forced to budget maybe about $30 each pay (every 2 weeks) to get Items I need.
Perhaps once I catch up with the items I need, I can skip a pay of purchasing every 3 months to get the membership again.
I don't buy the PC+ subscription until I need it, and I wait until it goes on sale as well. I buy a 3 months only. I do that, because I have to maintain a better discipline to not buy content I would like to have, but don't need it now.
I am not presumptuous to think the artists aren't getting their fair share. Stonemason is still a vibrant seller of content in the Daz store and everything he develops continues to sell for years after it was originally released in the shop. When content cost me more than a steak dinner I evaluate carefully, especically since my work is gratis indie videos. Would I rather have the steak dinner or the Stonemason Tuscany content at $42.95. This is a no brainer for me. LOL
I realize Stonemason doesn't get all the money from a sale, but I am certain he gets a fair share..or he would long ago have moved onto better things.
I agree some content prices are sensible and fair, and I agree some are not. However, I think it shoudl be said... you can't make decisions from another persons purse or wallet based on your own financial situation.
seriously?!
you should get into making content then,you'd be a top seller in no time if you can produce sprawl 2 in a day or two .
Oooh a Blender bridge would be great. If Hex is not going to be fixed how about a silo or blender bridge so we can fix the stuff we need to. On adobe photoshop I upgraded to Adobe CS6 and that is the last version until they get off the subscription squeeze. By the way gimp is great, I now almost use it exclusively. For people who use the software for making money I can understand paying so much but for homeuser not making a profit it is wrong. This goes for all software.
Actually, just the other day someone pointed me to the fact that Hex has a version in private testing currently :)
Very few PA's are eating steak dinners...
If any of them are, Stonemason would be one of them :)
I want a steak dinner!
While obviously you need to worry about your own finances ahead of the finances of PAs, Stonemason is AFAIK the top selling PA and has been for years, so he's by no means a typical example of a PA's gross revenue, and that's without getting into any discussion of his expenses or the number of hours he spends producing products. Most PAs would probably make more money in fewer hours flipping burgers, let alone steaks.
I could make Sprawl 2 in a couple days. On Venus... So about 486 Earth days. If I did nothing else but work on it. Seriously the level of detail is crazy. Maybe three or four Venusian days...
I had Carrabas, but then I have a full time gig and do content on the side ;)
I'm not sure the OP has a firm understanding of how much time goes into the models sold here.
I'm going to do some maths based on certain assumptions. Anyone in the know, please feel free to update these calculations with correct figures.
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Let's say it takes a minimum of two weeks of full time work to make a detailed urban environment (I reckon it would take waaaaaay longer, myself, but for the sake of this calculation, let's say two weeks). A graphic designer working at an established medium-level salaried job would earn around $50k a year (again, an assumption just for the sake of the calculation).
So, that's $2k that the vendor needs to earn in order to break even. (And in the US, I understand you'd need to also factor in retirement savings, and health insurance and other workplace benefits, etc). So let's say the actual break even point is $2500.
If you price an item at $24.95, and then subtract DAZ's cut (I'm assuming 50%, but honestly have no idea what the DAZ cut is), you'd need to sell 200 units at full price to break even. If you assume that most of the sales occur in the first two weeks, when the item is discounted between 30-50%, that number jumps to 300-400 units. If that target isn't hit in that period, I imagine you'd be relying on future sales to incentivise purchase, and those sales would net you only about 15% of the full value of the item (figuring a 70% discount and a 50% DAZ cut from that).
I don't know how realistic those numbers are, but I know I'd be holding my breath every time I released a new product, hoping it came off okay. Especially if I'm not one of the highest-regarded most-established PAs.
And that's without factoring in the inherent risks of operating in a freelance context or the inconvenience of delayed paydays.
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Now I'm not saying that content creators are necessarily entitled to earn the equivalence of a salary, but that would be the ideal, if we want to keep them making new content for us.
The thing to remember is that the majority of the products you see here were made by independent artists who're trying to make a living doing this, with nearly 2/3rds being sold directly by the artists while a large percentage of the DAZ Originals were also originally created by independent artists. While it's possible that DAZ itself could sell the DO products for even lower prices and hope to make the difference up on greater volume, I really don't know how the individual artists would make enough to justify the amount of work that goes into each item if the price was cut even further. (And, needless to say, the individual/store owned product ratio at the other sites that support the DS/Poser market make them even less able to start slashing prices.) In the end, there just aren't that many people who have a need for this kind of thing, and I suspect that the various companies have all done enough testing by now to have a good idea of what kind of pricing tiers and marketing strategies return enough to make the business profitible enough that the artists don't find better paying jobs doing things like working at McDonalds.
Seriously, as someone who's worked professionally in film and animation for four decades and knows the amount of time and effort that goes into producing a single CG asset (let alone the old old-school approach of machining metal armatures and casting bodies in foam latex,) I've always been amazed that the products at DAZ and the other DS/Poser centric sites are as cheap as they are. Especially when the average DAZ product EULA is basically a buy-out contract that lets you use the item in multiple projects, and the software that uses them comes free as well.
It would be nice if they could, but looking at how many promising artists pop up and then release only a few products before vanishing, it's clearly not a quick ticket to being rich.
I've read some 3 or maybe 4 posts since the initial post and only I see a dude ranting about high prices.
what's the point?, Daz is not low its prices just for satisfy you or they will be broken.
asides that, saying "I do video, not still images", looks like minorizing the works from others, what if I tell you I'm on the videogame industry?, can I insult others minorizing still images and video who nobody see?, NO.
what if somebody hires you and after your production the client says "oh no you cost is too high!", all have a value, if some of us can do the same products like stonemason for just name an artist, you will see how that hard work have a value.
I guess I had forgotten how comprehensive it actually is. I have not used it, because I've been working on indoor scenes for the past couple of months. Don't take it personal I do appreciate your work. OK