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You've been heard. Response re: 4.9 and Encryption

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  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,010
    Silver Dolphin said:
    lx said:
    Byrdie said:

    All this fuss is making me think I should go back to crayons. They don't have DRM and I don't need to consult a lawyer or any other expert than maybe a 5-year-old as to their use. cheeky

    (I would have said pencils but at least I can see crayons!) 

    Crayola are just waiting for you to fall into their trap, then they'll be coming after you.

    Seriously though reading all this makes me want to go "okay time to just do everything myself in Blender and never go near other peoples' content."

    It would be nice is someone skilled started making charaters for Blender that were opensource. I would pay for skins and clothings as well as morphs. A blender model shop would also be great idea. It could be like a 3D craigslist without the adult stuff and skimpy clothing. Send everyone to regular 3D sites for the adult stuff.

    Makehuman.org

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    KickAir 8P said:
    nicstt said:
    Silver Dolphin said:
    lx said:
    Byrdie said:

    All this fuss is making me think I should go back to crayons. They don't have DRM and I don't need to consult a lawyer or any other expert than maybe a 5-year-old as to their use. cheeky

    (I would have said pencils but at least I can see crayons!) 

    Crayola are just waiting for you to fall into their trap, then they'll be coming after you.

    Seriously though reading all this makes me want to go "okay time to just do everything myself in Blender and never go near other peoples' content."

    It would be nice is someone skilled started making charaters for Blender that were opensource. I would pay for skins and clothings as well as morphs. A blender model shop would also be great idea. It could be like a 3D craigslist without the adult stuff and skimpy clothing. Send everyone to regular 3D sites for the adult stuff.

    But they would get made and distributed somewhere; they would sell.

    Other than no replies to some questions posed; not much is happening now; I hate to let the thread die as it may be taken as a sign of acceptance - or at least indifference.

    Silence (enforced or otherwise) doesn't equal consent, exhaustion doesn't equal acceptance, ten years & way to much money spent here make it really hard to be indifferent.

    I agree, but someone could construe it as such.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,084

    I'm wrapping up my purchases and I've been extremely lucky with sales... everything aligning nicely.

     

  • KickAir 8PKickAir 8P Posts: 1,865
    nicstt said:
    KickAir 8P said:
    nicstt said:
    Silver Dolphin said:
    lx said:
    Byrdie said:

    All this fuss is making me think I should go back to crayons. They don't have DRM and I don't need to consult a lawyer or any other expert than maybe a 5-year-old as to their use. cheeky

    (I would have said pencils but at least I can see crayons!) 

    Crayola are just waiting for you to fall into their trap, then they'll be coming after you.

    Seriously though reading all this makes me want to go "okay time to just do everything myself in Blender and never go near other peoples' content."

    It would be nice is someone skilled started making charaters for Blender that were opensource. I would pay for skins and clothings as well as morphs. A blender model shop would also be great idea. It could be like a 3D craigslist without the adult stuff and skimpy clothing. Send everyone to regular 3D sites for the adult stuff.

    But they would get made and distributed somewhere; they would sell.

    Other than no replies to some questions posed; not much is happening now; I hate to let the thread die as it may be taken as a sign of acceptance - or at least indifference.

    Silence (enforced or otherwise) doesn't equal consent, exhaustion doesn't equal acceptance, ten years & way to much money spent here make it really hard to be indifferent.

    I agree, but someone could construe it as such.

    And it seems like DAZ does, granted.

  • KickAir 8PKickAir 8P Posts: 1,865

    Back when G3 came out (female only), a lot of things were going on in my life:  my semi-estranged father was dying, the "solution" to the latest crisis at work was making it close to intolerable, and one more time DAZ's latest and greatest was useless to me because they left out over half the human race.  I dropped out.  No big thing, just with so many things going on in my life . . . Daz had made 3D art a little too difficult to keep up with right then.

    Then the G3 Male comes out.  My father's been dead for months, I've moved in with my Mom to take care of her (switching to a not-intended-for-3D desktop in the process), and I've taken a semi-parttime job at a small non-profit near her.  I'm happier, even though I have less disposable income and I'm really busy.  But I want to show my support, and despite the hiatus I'm still into 3D art, so I sign up for the PlatClub and start buying again.  Desktop's across the room from the modem, haven't plugged in the cable 'cause it's a pain and the wireless is good enough so far, neither DAZ|Studio nor DIM installed so I'm not even downloading, but I'm shopping the sales, catching up on G3 utilities, picking up goodies from my favorite vendors, buying big buckets of store credit for the largest discounts and best savings.

    How is that relevant in this thread?  Because I've realized this is the straw that finally broke the camel's back.  All the time, money, and effort I've put into this artform over the last decade?  If I ever come back to it, it won't be here.  There are good free open-source human figure systems out now, everything else I can make myself if I take the time, so the ease and conveinience of 3D content for DAZ|Studio?  Too much baggage inextricably tied up with it to be worth it to me anymore.

    I just spent the rest of my store credit, deleted my credit card profiles, and quit my PlatClubMinus membership.  Maybe someday I'll set up DIM on a computer and download what I've bought -- the G3 stuff's pretty useless to me now, but geometry'll open in most anything, and the last batch has been scenery & props.

    I doubt this post'll stay up long, which is fine -- I don't want to get into a big goodbye scene.  ::looks up::  Well, not any bigger.  And with the gadfly I've been I doubt DAZ'll be sorry to see the back of me.

  • PetercatPetercat Posts: 2,321
    KickAir 8P said:

    How is that relevant in this thread?  Because I've realized this is the straw that finally broke the camel's back.  All the time, money, and effort I've put into this artform over the last decade?  If I ever come back to it, it won't be here.  There are good free open-source human figure systems out now, everything else I can make myself if I take the time, so the ease and conveinience of 3D content for DAZ|Studio?  Too much baggage inextricably tied up with it to be worth it to me anymore.

    I just spent the rest of my store credit, deleted my credit card profiles, and quit my PlatClubMinus membership.  Maybe someday I'll set up DIM on a computer and download what I've bought -- the G3 stuff's pretty useless to me now, but geometry'll open in most anything, and the last batch has been scenery & props.

    I doubt this post'll stay up long, which is fine -- I don't want to get into a big goodbye scene.  ::looks up::  Well, not any bigger.  And with the gadfly I've been I doubt DAZ'll be sorry to see the back of me.

    I've got a small purchase in my cart right now, a little over $100, mostly using my 40% loyalty coupon, but I'm really having trouble working up enough motivation to make the purchase.
    I'll probably go ahead and buy, as "The Streets of Tuscany" is one of them, and not making the purchase would be too much like punishing Stonemason for Daz's DRM, which I don't want to do.

    But I've already purchased many of Stonemason's products, so maybe I'll let this one slide. My enthusiasm for Daz is fading as a result, not only of encryption, but of the way Daz has handled the implementation and explanation, as well.

    And since no one at Daz will respond to a valid concern that several of us have brought up, it's getting easier to respond in kind: Meh.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,084
    The opposite of love isn't hate, it's apathy.
  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996
    edited February 2016
    Novica said:

    Richard, why don't they do a survey and let people weigh in with an organized format? As long as the survey is designed appropriately, they can have more than one tool (sales) to help make their decisions. I had 18 counties and 3,000 employees to manage as a Regional HRD Director, and when we wanted to get valid input about proposed changes or how things were progressing after something new was introduced, I did the surveys. You do have to know how to do them in an un-biased manner, with some open-ended questions for input in addition to other types of questions, but I think Daz should do one. (There Jon, there's a concrete suggestion from someone who has been in upper tier management for a state agency. And an ex-professor that knows what good research entails. And you need these folks' input, not just sales!) 

    Fragg1960 said:

    First really useful suggestion I've seen here in a while if (as Novica suggested) its done correctly.  Of course if you ask the public directly if they want DRM they're going to say no.  That's not how you get useful answers in a survey about the impact of change on spending habits.  Questions should be something along the lines of: 

    If you see an item you want in the DAZ store and notice that it is encrypted, does it influence your purchase decision in any way ? (  ) YES  (  ) NO

    If you see an item in the store you need for a render, are you more likely to buy it, less likely to buy it, or indifferent to whether it's encrypted or not?  (   ) MORE LIKELY   (   ) LESS LIKELY   (   ) INDIFFERENT

    As long as a product works as intended, it's irrelevant whether it's encrypted or not.  (    )  TRUE   (    )  FALSE

    Of course there would have to be a lot more questions to weed out the weight of the answers per user such as "What is your average spend/month at the DAZ store?"   That way people who spend $20/year versus those who spend $500/year or more wouldn't get the same level of %weight.  And before everyone freaks out about that statement being elitist, remember it's a statistical game of numbers for DAZ, so knowing the spending habits driving the input matters a lot.  To be transparent, my input probably have very little weight.

    (Sorry I spent long enough finding those ones I couldn't be bothered finding the relevant quotes for the other questions, but these aren't my questions; they were just lost and unanswered.)

    Open Questions:

    - Has there been any thought toward a customer survey?

    - What are people locked offline meant to do about products moving to Connect?

    - What are Carrara, Bryce, Poser users meant to do about new Connect-only products?

    - Another open question is what is the long term support story for DAZ Studio and Connect.  Will only the current version of DAZ Studio be supported or will DAZ backport and future patches to keep DAZ Connect in 4.9 working if they have to make a client side breaking change. (-RoboHeadArt)

    Post edited by lx_2807502 on
  • ByrdieByrdie Posts: 1,783

    Well, I just spent around $20, with my PC+ Bonus coupon, on a few M4 items I'd been wanting that went on sale at 80% off when you put 3 or more in the cart. So my wish list is getting slowly cleared. Never even looked at the G3 stuff since I can't use it, same for most of the G2 items. Maybe a couple of those I really want, if only I can get them to work in Poser, but it's darned hard to figure out which ones, now that everyone else (seems to have/mostly) dropped support and don't include PCFs. sad

  • RobotHeadArtRobotHeadArt Posts: 917
    edited February 2016
    lx said:
    Novica said:

    Richard, why don't they do a survey and let people weigh in with an organized format? As long as the survey is designed appropriately, they can have more than one tool (sales) to help make their decisions. I had 18 counties and 3,000 employees to manage as a Regional HRD Director, and when we wanted to get valid input about proposed changes or how things were progressing after something new was introduced, I did the surveys. You do have to know how to do them in an un-biased manner, with some open-ended questions for input in addition to other types of questions, but I think Daz should do one. (There Jon, there's a concrete suggestion from someone who has been in upper tier management for a state agency. And an ex-professor that knows what good research entails. And you need these folks' input, not just sales!) 

    Fragg1960 said:

    First really useful suggestion I've seen here in a while if (as Novica suggested) its done correctly.  Of course if you ask the public directly if they want DRM they're going to say no.  That's not how you get useful answers in a survey about the impact of change on spending habits.  Questions should be something along the lines of: 

    If you see an item you want in the DAZ store and notice that it is encrypted, does it influence your purchase decision in any way ? (  ) YES  (  ) NO

    If you see an item in the store you need for a render, are you more likely to buy it, less likely to buy it, or indifferent to whether it's encrypted or not?  (   ) MORE LIKELY   (   ) LESS LIKELY   (   ) INDIFFERENT

    As long as a product works as intended, it's irrelevant whether it's encrypted or not.  (    )  TRUE   (    )  FALSE

    Of course there would have to be a lot more questions to weed out the weight of the answers per user such as "What is your average spend/month at the DAZ store?"   That way people who spend $20/year versus those who spend $500/year or more wouldn't get the same level of %weight.  And before everyone freaks out about that statement being elitist, remember it's a statistical game of numbers for DAZ, so knowing the spending habits driving the input matters a lot.  To be transparent, my input probably have very little weight.

    (Sorry I spent long enough finding those ones I couldn't be bothered finding the relevant quotes for the other questions, but these aren't my questions; they were just lost and unanswered.)

    Open Questions:

    - Has there been any thought toward a customer survey?

    - What are people locked offline meant to do about products moving to Connect?

    - What are Carrara, Bryce, Poser users meant to do about new Connect-only products?

     

    Another open question is what is the long term support story for DAZ Studio and Connect.  Will only the current version of DAZ Studio be supported or will DAZ backport any future patches to keep DAZ Connect in 4.9 working if they have to make a client side breaking change.

    Interesting thing about the customer survey, they had sent one out before 4.9's beta was over so they have a baseline to compare a new survey should they send one out.  One of the questions was something like How do you view your experience with DAZ (positive/neutral/negative).  There was also a freeform field too for comments which I had left.  I know I would certainly put a different answer down now, post 4.9 release.

    Post edited by RobotHeadArt on
  • DWGDWG Posts: 770
    Sorel said:
    DWG said:

    So came by to check the shop, found 4 freebies, was feeling pretty happy about DAZ

    Went to download them, found two were DRMd and 10 times the hassle to install. This does not leave me feeling positive about my DAZ experience.

    It's bad enough when they're freebies, if it comes down to paying for being irritated, well there are other places to spend my money.

    may I ask how it was 10 times the hassle? Everything I have downloaded through connect was literally click to install. Didn't have to do anything else >_>

    Because I want to have my own off line copies installed precisely where I want, just as is the rest of my DAZ content - I spent a lot of years working as a configuration manager on very large projects and the whole Connect model sets off my professionl heebie-jeebies.

     

  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996
    RobotHeadArt said:
    lx said:
    Novica said:

    Richard, why don't they do a survey and let people weigh in with an organized format? As long as the survey is designed appropriately, they can have more than one tool (sales) to help make their decisions. I had 18 counties and 3,000 employees to manage as a Regional HRD Director, and when we wanted to get valid input about proposed changes or how things were progressing after something new was introduced, I did the surveys. You do have to know how to do them in an un-biased manner, with some open-ended questions for input in addition to other types of questions, but I think Daz should do one. (There Jon, there's a concrete suggestion from someone who has been in upper tier management for a state agency. And an ex-professor that knows what good research entails. And you need these folks' input, not just sales!) 

    Fragg1960 said:

    First really useful suggestion I've seen here in a while if (as Novica suggested) its done correctly.  Of course if you ask the public directly if they want DRM they're going to say no.  That's not how you get useful answers in a survey about the impact of change on spending habits.  Questions should be something along the lines of: 

    If you see an item you want in the DAZ store and notice that it is encrypted, does it influence your purchase decision in any way ? (  ) YES  (  ) NO

    If you see an item in the store you need for a render, are you more likely to buy it, less likely to buy it, or indifferent to whether it's encrypted or not?  (   ) MORE LIKELY   (   ) LESS LIKELY   (   ) INDIFFERENT

    As long as a product works as intended, it's irrelevant whether it's encrypted or not.  (    )  TRUE   (    )  FALSE

    Of course there would have to be a lot more questions to weed out the weight of the answers per user such as "What is your average spend/month at the DAZ store?"   That way people who spend $20/year versus those who spend $500/year or more wouldn't get the same level of %weight.  And before everyone freaks out about that statement being elitist, remember it's a statistical game of numbers for DAZ, so knowing the spending habits driving the input matters a lot.  To be transparent, my input probably have very little weight.

    (Sorry I spent long enough finding those ones I couldn't be bothered finding the relevant quotes for the other questions, but these aren't my questions; they were just lost and unanswered.)

    Open Questions:

    - Has there been any thought toward a customer survey?

    - What are people locked offline meant to do about products moving to Connect?

    - What are Carrara, Bryce, Poser users meant to do about new Connect-only products?

     

    Another open question is what is the long term support story for DAZ Studio and Connect.  Will only the current version of DAZ Studio be supported or will DAZ backport and future patches to keep DAZ Connect in 4.9 working if they have to make a client side breaking change.

    Interesting thing about the customer survey, they had sent one out before 4.9's beta was over so they have a baseline to compare a new survey should they send one out.  One of the questions was something like How do you view your experience with DAZ (positive/neutral/negative).  There was also a freeform field too for comments which I had left.  I know I would certainly put a different answer down now, post 4.9 release.

    Added your question to the same post so we have them all in one place to quote so they don't get lost.

    I never received any customer survey about 4.9 changes (or anything actually.) So if they did send one then it was only to a select group, not to all active customers.

  • RobotHeadArtRobotHeadArt Posts: 917

    It wasn't about 4.9 specifically, it was before 4.9 was officially released.  I think it was in December when they sent it out because I left a note about all the broken sales around cyber Monday.

  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996
    edited February 2016

    Yeah, I was active then (and had tested 4.9) but to the best of my knowledge I never received one. Judging by many peoples' startled reactions, they didn't either. Or perhaps none of us read them. Who can say?

    Post edited by lx_2807502 on
  • pearbearpearbear Posts: 227
    lx said:

    Yeah, I was active then (and had tested 4.9) but to the best of my knowledge I never received one. Judging by many peoples' startled reactions, they didn't either. Or perhaps none of us read them. Who can say?

    I received and filled out a survey from DAZ at the beginning of the year. I just rechecked my email to see when - it arrived at my inbox on January 8th. The link to the survey doesn't work anymore, since the survey is closed.

    What struck me as odd about the survey (at least the one I got) is that it had no questions even remotely related to encryption or any of the controversial topics discussed here. I remember this distinctly, because I had been upset about the DRM issue since it first started to be discussed on the forum at the end of October. When the survey came into my inbox I thought, "Okay, well good, they're going to have us customers officially weigh in with our feelings about the upcoming big changes to DAZ." But no, it was just a few benign questions related to purchasing habits, whether I liked seeing frequent releases in the store etc. Filling out the multiple choice questionnaire in which no question related to the things responsible for my recent dissatisfaction, general bad feeling about the future of DAZ, and almost complete withdrawal as a customer felt like ignoring the elephant in the room.

  • PetercatPetercat Posts: 2,321
    Petercat said:

    I've got a small purchase in my cart right now, a little over $100, mostly using my 40% loyalty coupon, but I'm really having trouble working up enough motivation to make the purchase.
    I'll probably go ahead and buy, as "The Streets of Tuscany" is one of them, and not making the purchase would be too much like punishing Stonemason for Daz's DRM, which I don't want to do.

    But I've already purchased many of Stonemason's products, so maybe I'll let this one slide. My enthusiasm for Daz is fading as a result, not only of encryption, but of the way Daz has handled the implementation and explanation, as well.

    And since no one at Daz will respond to a valid concern that several of us have brought up, it's getting easier to respond in kind: Meh.

    Well, the clock ran out. I just couldn't get motivated to leave my chair and go get my Visa. It's a very nice chair. It's hard to get motivated about Daz anymore. Meh.

  • CrescentCrescent Posts: 333

    The survey wasn't very good, in my opinion.  There was only 1 open ended question where you could write a response and it wasn't a question which I wanted to address with a long answer.  There wasn't an " Additional Comments" box at the end, which surprised me.  I backtracked and added a bit to the only response I could, but I wish I'd gone back and used that one box to comment on what I thought was important, not what they'd asked.

  • frogimusfrogimus Posts: 200
    Petercat said:
    Petercat said:

    I've got a small purchase in my cart right now, a little over $100, mostly using my 40% loyalty coupon, but I'm really having trouble working up enough motivation to make the purchase.
    I'll probably go ahead and buy, as "The Streets of Tuscany" is one of them, and not making the purchase would be too much like punishing Stonemason for Daz's DRM, which I don't want to do.

    But I've already purchased many of Stonemason's products, so maybe I'll let this one slide. My enthusiasm for Daz is fading as a result, not only of encryption, but of the way Daz has handled the implementation and explanation, as well.

    And since no one at Daz will respond to a valid concern that several of us have brought up, it's getting easier to respond in kind: Meh.

    Well, the clock ran out. I just couldn't get motivated to leave my chair and go get my Visa. It's a very nice chair. It's hard to get motivated about Daz anymore. Meh.

    You too? I put a couple of the 80% off V4/M4 things in my cart. Left them there a few hours. Emptied cart. Went through the same process a little later with some 1.99 PC+ items. If I'm not mistaken, I did the same on a couple of forum replies. Started reply, went to settings and deleted draft.

    Too bad that their beloved statistical models don't include the increased cashflow I've given other marketplaces.

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 7,019

    Considering that currently most of the items are unencrypted and are delivered the usual way, I can't help the feeling of the sky being painted darker than it is.

    That's why I have decided to quit reading this thread, as the constant outpours of OMG in perptual rerun is bad for my creative juices and makes me depressed.

    Off to buy a jetpack to escape. Have fun. heart

  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 1,582
    BeeMKay said:

    Considering that currently most of the items are unencrypted and are delivered the usual way, I can't help the feeling of the sky being painted darker than it is.

    That's why I have decided to quit reading this thread, as the constant outpours of OMG in perptual rerun is bad for my creative juices and makes me depressed.

    Off to buy a jetpack to escape. Have fun. heart

    I think the reason most items are still unencrypted is DAZ is still testing to see if they can get wide enough adoption of encrypted content. Ultimately if they decide to go through with this I'd expect to see all new DAZ originals encrypted, with PA items depending on whether DAZ allowed them a choice in the matter.(exceptions of course being anything specifically made for Bryce or Cararra, or unable to be delivered through Connect) Anything less would just be rather pointless, like saying 'don't steal these, just take this stuff'. 

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    BeeMKay said:

    Considering that currently most of the items are unencrypted and are delivered the usual way, I can't help the feeling of the sky being painted darker than it is.

    That's why I have decided to quit reading this thread, as the constant outpours of OMG in perptual rerun is bad for my creative juices and makes me depressed.

    Off to buy a jetpack to escape. Have fun. heart

    At the moment.

    It's been posted that it would be pointless to DRM the older stuff as it is out there. Doesn't mean it won't happen anyway, if DRMd products are accepted.

    I'll remain paranoid, you remain complacent; we all do what is right for us. :)

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,084

    I don't think it's rampant speculation or even particularly odd to note that if Daz decides DRM is working/safe that they will migrate to making all new products Encrypted-only.

    Why wouldn't they?

     

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,573
    timmins.william said:

    I don't think it's rampant speculation or even particularly odd to note that if Daz decides DRM is working/safe that they will migrate to making all new products Encrypted-only.

    Why wouldn't they?

     

    It's unlikely they will encrypt tutorials, or photoshop brushes, plus some other product types, likewise those fully or partially aimed at apps other than DS. However for content deemed to be only for DS, I suspect you are correct, if indeed it makes no difference to sales

  • ByrdieByrdie Posts: 1,783
    edited February 2016

    In fact, it would be very odd if they didn't. Except, of course, for what (as of yet) can't be encrypted. 

    Post edited by Byrdie on
  • wsterdanwsterdan Posts: 3,042
    edited February 2016
    timmins.william said:

    I don't think it's rampant speculation or even particularly odd to note that if Daz decides DRM is working/safe that they will migrate to making all new products Encrypted-only.

    Why wouldn't they?

    Anything is possible. My take on dropping DAZ completely to show your dislike of DRM is that it actually doesn't send a clear message. Old users drop off the map constantly, while new users enter the game daily as well. As much as some of us here purchase regularly, we're still a very small portion of the total. If one of us stops buying completely, the level for all products dips a little, but it's not clear as to the cause. I think a much clearer message, if you want to make one, is to continue buying non-encrypted items and just refuse to buy encrypted or connect-only items. Sales overall up or down doesn't always clearly indicate the cause, but a dramatic difference in sales -- and expected sales -- between encrypted and non-encrypted is a much clearer demarcation. The difference is "Hmmm, sales are a little down overall this month" as opposed to "Wow, look at how much better non-encrypted stuff sells.".

    -- Walt Sterdan

    Post edited by wsterdan on
  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 1,582
    wsterdan said:
    timmins.william said:

    I don't think it's rampant speculation or even particularly odd to note that if Daz decides DRM is working/safe that they will migrate to making all new products Encrypted-only.

    Why wouldn't they?

    Anything is possible. My take on dropping DAZ completely to show your dislike of DRM is that it actually doesn't send a clear message. Old users drop off the map constantly, while new users enter the game daily as well. As much as some of us here purchase regularly, we're still a very small portion of the total. If one of us stops buying completely, the level for all products dips a little, but it's not clear as to the cause. I think a much clearer message, if you want to make one, is to continue buying non-encrypted items and just refuse to buy encrypted or connect-only items. Sales overall up or down doesn't always clearly indicate the cause, but a dramatic difference in sales -- and expected sales -- between encrypted and non-encrypted is a much clearer demarcation. The difference is "Hmmm, sales are a little down overall this month" as opposed to "Wow, look at how much better non-encrypted stuff sells.".

    -- Walt Sterdan

    That's why I'm still shopping here. Won't buy encrypted, even free encrypted items, but I'll still get normal content.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,084

    If they have good data mining and metrics (which I think has been claimed at least a few times?), then it should be obvious when a bunch of people who buy regularly all cancel memberships and stop buying at a given point. It should also be clear what magnitude this dip represents -- perhaps it'll turn out to be inconsequential compared to the imagined benefits of DRM. Perhaps not.

    And if they do not have good data mining/metrics, then all of this is speculation and nothing we do will send a perceptible message. At which point you just have to do what works for you.

     

  • DaikatanaDaikatana Posts: 830

     

     

    wsterdan said:
    timmins.william said:

    I don't think it's rampant speculation or even particularly odd to note that if Daz decides DRM is working/safe that they will migrate to making all new products Encrypted-only.

    Why wouldn't they?

    Anything is possible. My take on dropping DAZ completely to show your dislike of DRM is that it actually doesn't send a clear message. Old users drop off the map constantly, while new users enter the game daily as well. As much as some of us here purchase regularly, we're still a very small portion of the total. If one of us stops buying completely, the level for all products dips a little, but it's not clear as to the cause. I think a much clearer message, if you want to make one, is to continue buying non-encrypted items and just refuse to buy encrypted or connect-only items. Sales overall up or down doesn't always clearly indicate the cause, but a dramatic difference in sales -- and expected sales -- between encrypted and non-encrypted is a much clearer demarcation. The difference is "Hmmm, sales are a little down overall this month" as opposed to "Wow, look at how much better non-encrypted stuff sells.".

    -- Walt Sterdan

    This is the best way to show them what we want.  If they can't even GIVE the encrypted stuff away, that's a pretty pointed statement.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715

    I'm not stopping buying; I'm taking a break, I'll add things to my wishlist, although I've just removed a few. I've spent some time checking out alternatives, and have bought four times before getting something from Daz. I gave Daz my loyalty; the products looked great, generally, and the refunds were easy, although I have used it very few times. I feel there (I don't expect loyalty from a company) was nothing reciprocated (not with the Connect, or DRM) but how this was handled, and to a lesser extent, how it continues to be handled.

    Try things out, change direction even, in the pursuit of profit.

    But treat me like a human being - we haven't been.

  • pearbearpearbear Posts: 227

    I'm still making small purchases at DAZ here and there, much less than I was in the past though. My change in spending isn't due to me trying to send a message to DAZ about DRM. It's just a natural byproduct of my wanting to break away from an ecosystem that is going places I don't want to follow. Because it looks quite likely that all new DAZ products will be encrypted soon, I'm migrating my workflow habits away from the use of new DAZ content. That way if DRMing everything comes to pass, I won't be stuck with no choice but to start buying DRM content - I'll have other methods, habits, and options already in play.

    The DAZ store used to be the first website I opened when I needed some 3D content, or just wanted to window browse for deals. The store has a lot of wonderful qualities and some excellent artists. It's shifted to near last on my list though, and will stay at the bottom as long as DRM is on the horizon.

This discussion has been closed.