Use G9 skin on G8

yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 203
edited June 22 in Product Suggestions

Hello, is there a tool or an add-on (or something else) allowing to use G9  skins on a G8 or G8.1 character?

Thank you in advance!

Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
«1

Comments

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,540
    edited June 22

    If you mean on G8F/G8.1F,  as a straight-forward way, use this product: https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-9-uvs-for-genesis-8-and-81-female

    Unfortunately there's been no product for G8F/G8.1M so far...

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 203

    Oh, tnank you very much ! I have several questions about it:

    -  Visually, is it not a problem that it acts as a second skin? Is it as reallistic as an actual skin?

    - I wonder what would happen if I wanted use only a part of the G9 skin. For example, if I want to use the G9 body skin but to keep the G8 eye one, would it be possible, or would I oblige to use the G9 eye material too?

    - Would it be possible to "convert" it into a G8 male skin by using the G8 UV Swap https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-uv-swap-male-and-female-base?

    Thank you in advance for your answer!

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,540

    yuyu.atem said:

    Oh, tnank you very much ! I have several questions about it:

    -  Visually, is it not a problem that it acts as a second skin? Is it as reallistic as an actual skin?

    No, not a 2nd skin or skinsuit...but geografts + G9's UV, after applying a G9 character's skin matetial preset on them, it's just a normal G8 figure but with G9's skin texture, seamlessly.

    - I wonder what would happen if I wanted use only a part of the G9 skin. For example, if I want to use the G9 body skin but to keep the G8 eye one, would it be possible, or would I oblige to use the G9 eye material too?

    Certainly, just keep using G8's eyes texuture as well as G8's UV Set on Eyes related surfaces.

    - Would it be possible to "convert" it into a G8 male skin by using the G8 UV Swap https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-uv-swap-male-and-female-base?

    Nope,  using that product is based on G8's texture maps rather than G9's.

    Thank you in advance for your answer!

  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 203

    crosswind said:

    No, not a 2nd skin or skinsuit...but geografts + G9's UV, after applying a G9 character's skin matetial preset on them, it's just a normal G8 figure but with G9's skin texture, seamlessly.

    Ah, ok! I misunderstood!

    Nope,  using that product is based on G8's texture maps rather than G9's.

    Oh, it's too bad! I guess you don't know when, or if, a G8 male equivalent will be realize, do you? Even if it's more complicated, do you know anotheer way to use G9 skin (https://www.daz3d.com/tt-coco-for-genesis-9) on a G8 character? I would like to use the TT Coco skin an a G8 male..

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 11,275
    edited June 22

    This product doesn't convert G9 textures into G8F ones, it modifies your G8F figure so it accepts G9 textures. To do that, it needs to replace parts of the figure's geometry with geografts, because it needs to redefine G8F surface boundaries in those areas and there aren't polygons in the right place for that.

    The "second skin" term only means that the figure has an alternate option for skin. The visual result is the same as using a skin made for G8F.

    It's worth noting that there might be a few problems if you're using morphs (especially HD morphs) which would alter the areas with the geografts a lot, as the geografts may not be able to react in the same way as the original figure's geometry.


    The eyes are not an area where geometry needed to be replaced, so the product would simply have provided alternate "G9 UVs" for them. So I think G8 eyes should still work, but you might need to change the UVs used for those surfaces manually.


    And no, you couldn't use UV swap to get it to work on G8M. As mentioned it doesn't convert the textures.

    Post edited by Leana on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,540
    edited June 22
    ....

    Nope,  using that product is based on G8's texture maps rather than G9's.

    Oh, it's too bad! I guess you don't know when, or if, a G8 male equivalent will be realize, do you? Even if it's more complicated, do you know anotheer way to use G9 skin (https://www.daz3d.com/tt-coco-for-genesis-9) on a G8 character? I would like to use the TT Coco skin an a G8 male..

    Haha ~ most likely, I don't know 'cause I haven't had such experience.

    But I know there're some alternatives:

    a) convert G9F's texture to G8M in FaceForm Wrap; b) convert them in Blender with UV projection than bake the maps. However, I myself haven't done them before 'cause the process requires even more domain knowledge, while the steps turn out to be cumbersome...

    c) you may convert your G8M figure to G9. (by using SkinSuit method or FaceForm Wrap which you've already known how-to...) That'll be much easier. Then you may freely use any G9's texture maps on it.

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 98,308

    Moved to Product Suggestions as it is a search for an add-on tool, not a post related to the Daz Studio application itself.

  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 203

    Thank you very much!

    This product doesn't convert G9 textures into G8F ones, it modifies your G8F figure so it accepts G9 textures. To do that, it needs to replace parts of the figure's geometry with geografts, because it needs to redefine G8F surface boundaries in those areas and there aren't polygons in the right place for that.

    Couldn't it make some issue when I use clothes, hair or wings for G8 with it?

    It's worth noting that there might be a few problems if you're using morphs (especially HD morphs) which would alter the areas with the geografts a lot, as the geografts may not be able to react in the same way as the original figure's geometry.

    Would it ocurs when the morph was used before using the G9 UVs for G8, or only if I want to use a morph after using it?

    But I know there're some alternatives:

    a) convert G9F's texture to G8M in FaceForm Wrap; b) convert them in Blender with UV projection than bake the maps. However, I myself haven't done them before 'cause the process requires even more domain knowledge, while the steps turn out to be cumbersome...

    Do you know some tutorials that explain how to do?

    c) you may convert your G8M figure to G9. (by using SkinSuit method or FaceForm Wrap which you've already known how-to...) That'll be much easier. Then you may freely use any G9's texture maps on it.

    I would like to use the Avija Wings (https://www.daz3d.com/avija-wings-and-tail-for-genesis-8-and-81-males) on my character; do you think I could use it on a G9 character, even if it created for G8? Wouldn't it create some isses?

    Thank you in advance for your answers!

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,540

    yuyu.atem said:

    Thank you very much!

    This product doesn't convert G9 textures into G8F ones, it modifies your G8F figure so it accepts G9 textures. To do that, it needs to replace parts of the figure's geometry with geografts, because it needs to redefine G8F surface boundaries in those areas and there aren't polygons in the right place for that.

    Couldn't it make some issue when I use clothes, hair or wings for G8 with it?

    In my experience, nope, it won't bring issues to wearable ~~ not relevant.

    It's worth noting that there might be a few problems if you're using morphs (especially HD morphs) which would alter the areas with the geografts a lot, as the geografts may not be able to react in the same way as the original figure's geometry.

    Would it ocurs when the morph was used before using the G9 UVs for G8, or only if I want to use a morph after using it?

    It's a well-known issue that geo-graft cannot perfectly support HD morph especially with high SubD Level, no matter you dial HD before or after... Like the screenshot attached, it's a V8.1 HD using V9's textures with this product. If you view or render SubD Level 4, the issue can be apparently seen.

    But I know there're some alternatives:

    a) convert G9F's texture to G8M in FaceForm Wrap; b) convert them in Blender with UV projection than bake the maps. However, I myself haven't done them before 'cause the process requires even more domain knowledge, while the steps turn out to be cumbersome...

    Do you know some tutorials that explain how to do?

    Rarely ~~ You may search on youtube / internet.

    c) you may convert your G8M figure to G9. (by using SkinSuit method or FaceForm Wrap which you've already known how-to...) That'll be much easier. Then you may freely use any G9's texture maps on it.

    I would like to use the Avija Wings (https://www.daz3d.com/avija-wings-and-tail-for-genesis-8-and-81-males) on my character; do you think I could use it on a G9 character, even if it created for G8? Wouldn't it create some isses?

    Nope, you cannot, this Wings product is a geo-graft for G8.X which cannot be used on G9. Besides, this Wings cannot adopt G9's Body texture either, you have to convert G9's body textures as well so as to apply on the head / body surfaces on the Wings.

    Thank you in advance for your answers!

     

    SNAG-2024-6-23-016.png
    2024 x 1389 - 2M
  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 203
    edited June 24

    Thank you very much! I found a tutorial on the internet : https://www.versluis.com/2022/11/converting-skin-textures-for-use-with-genesis-9/. I am to thos stape:

    However, I am encountering an issue that I don't know how to fix on the TransferTexture node:

    Image removed

       

    It's the first time I use this node, so maybe I made a mistake, but I don't know what... Do you have an idea where this issue comes from? Could it come from the wrapping itself? it look pretyy ggod on the viewport...

       

    Thank you in advance!

    Post edited by yuyu.atem on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,540

    Your screenshots have been removed... It's not allowed post texture maps in here. Well, what was the issue on earth ? Texture maps not aligned ? Broken ?

    I'm not 100% sure, but maybe we can add an overlay color to hide the maps. Like the one I attached... (but if moderator deletes mine... I'll ask to confirm how to attach these things or it's 100% not allowed...)

    SNAG-2024-6-24-018.png
    1251 x 814 - 245K
  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 203
    edited June 24

    crosswind said:

    Your screenshots have been removed... It's not allowed post texture maps in here. Well, what was the issue on earth ? Texture maps not aligned ? Broken ?

    Oh, sorry, I didn't know! Yes, the texture map is broken... I show here just a little part, I hope it will be ok.

    I'm not 100% sure, but maybe we can add an overlay color to hide the maps. Like the one I attached... (but if moderator deletes mine... I'll ask to confirm how to attach these things or it's 100% not allowed...)

    For TT Coco I used these settings:

        

    But I am surpise, it seems I have not exactly the same settings as you...surprise Do you think it could be the cause of the issue?

    For the G8M, I used these ones:

         

     

    Edit:

    After making some tests, I have the impression that my TT Coco have no eyes in Wrap, only eyelids:

    It's the first time I export a G9 character in obj, so maybe I made a mistake?

    Thank you in advance for your help!

    Post edited by yuyu.atem on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,540
    edited June 24

    Well, I always like Jay's tutorial... But pls be noted that his tutorial is for G8 > G9... what you want is G9 > G8, so if you completely follow the tutorial, you won't get the expected results.

    A couple of key steps as below:
    - G8.1F UV from Atlas is just fine.
    - for G9's UV, check the above screenshot I posted (if it's not removed by mod...).  Be noted : before using Atlas, you have to assign texture maps to Fingernail, Toenail and Mouth Cavity with different file name, otherwise Atlas won't show them... (screenshot 1)
    - you'll use G8.1 to wrap G9, so you have to use SelectPolygon node to hide Mouth and Teeth. (screenshot 2)
    - use G8.1F to wrap G9, it's difficult to wrap Mouth and get the converted textures... (I could not make it for the time being..). So you may just leave it alone. Use a Mouth texture from a G8.1F character instead. It's not a big deal...
    - besides, when you export G8.1F and G9's figure to OBJ files, use Scale 100% rather than 1% ! otherwise you'll have trouble when setting point pairs and brushing the mesh if needed.

    Then after wrapping, you should get the correct result ( screenshot 3 ).

    PS: I forgot to mention... before exporting G8.1F to OBJ, dial G9 Clone on it! It'll be much easier to get a good wrapping result (screenshot 4)

    SNAG-2024-6-24-020.png
    2354 x 1341 - 498K
    SNAG-2024-6-24-021.png
    2558 x 1348 - 609K
    SNAG-2024-6-24-019.png
    2555 x 1345 - 311K
    SNAG-2024-6-25-022.png
    2560 x 1392 - 642K
    Post edited by crosswind on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,540
    ....

    Edit:

    After making some tests, I have the impression that my TT Coco have no eyes in Wrap, only eyelids:

    It's the first time I export a G9 character in obj, so maybe I made a mistake?

    Thank you in advance for your help!

    Having no eyes is correct ! You use G9 as the fixed geometry with a UV Prep Pose, Eyes are useless.

  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 203

    Thank you very much! In fact, I haven't understood that I had to remove the G8 eyes before using the TransferTexture node, since I don't want to convert the TT Coco eyes... I removed them, and it is not perfect yet, but it works better. I will try what you said.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,540

    You don't need eyes on G9, Jay also mentioned that, only export G9 Root Node to OBJ without any attachements. Actually you don't need eyes on G8 neither... but since the UV Pose makes the figure's eyes closed, there should be no big issue when you use G8 with Eyes to wrap G9.

    But better check the wrapping result... if the eyelids are not smooth, use Brush node to relax the mesh on the eyelids a bit.

  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 203
    edited June 29

    crosswind said:

    - for G9's UV, check the above screenshot I posted (if it's not removed by mod...).  Be noted : before using Atlas, you have to assign texture maps to Fingernail, Toenail and Mouth Cavity with different file name, otherwise Atlas won't show them... (screenshot 1)

    Hi, to be sure to not make a mistake, have I to do that for every Nails map (NM, R, SO and SSS), or only for the D map?

    I see also a file TTCoco_Mouth_D_1001 already exists; have I to replace it? May I to give another name to the new one?

    Thank you in advance for your answer!

    Post edited by yuyu.atem on
  • EightiesIsEnoughEightiesIsEnough Posts: 1,077

    crosswind said:

    If you mean on G8F/G8.1F,  as a straight-forward way, use this product: https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-9-uvs-for-genesis-8-and-81-female

    Unfortunately there's been no product for G8F/G8.1M so far...

    Actually, there is one for G8/G8.1 Male: https://www.daz3d.com/legacy-uvs-for-genesis-9-genesis-3-8-and-81-male

  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 203

    EightiesIsEnough said:

    Actually, there is one for G8/G8.1 Male: https://www.daz3d.com/legacy-uvs-for-genesis-9-genesis-3-8-and-81-male

    Oh, thank very much, it's great!heart

    But in fact, I just succed to fix the issue I encountered when I tried to convert G9 skin into G8M skin by using Wrap, so, I would like to try to finish it, to learn how to do, and also because it's fun! wink
    However, there is something I don't understand yet: in the TT Coco surface pane, there are also transluency map, specular maps, ambiant occlusion map, etc... But the Texture Atlas pane only saved a normal map and a diffuse map. As the same way, it only saved a bump map and a diffuse map for the G8M. Isn't it a problem to convert TT Coco's skin into G8M's skin?
    Especially, I'm interested by the transluency 45% material settings. Can it be correctly recreated by using only the TT Coco's diffuse and normal maps?

    Thank you in advance for your answer!

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,540
    edited June 29

    EightiesIsEnough said:

    crosswind said:

    If you mean on G8F/G8.1F,  as a straight-forward way, use this product: https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-9-uvs-for-genesis-8-and-81-female

    Unfortunately there's been no product for G8F/G8.1M so far...

    Actually, there is one for G8/G8.1 Male: https://www.daz3d.com/legacy-uvs-for-genesis-9-genesis-3-8-and-81-male

    This is the product bringing Legacy UVs from G3/G8 to G9, not the OP's case in which he needs G9's UVs and/or textures on G8...

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,540

    yuyu.atem said:

    crosswind said:

    - for G9's UV, check the above screenshot I posted (if it's not removed by mod...).  Be noted : before using Atlas, you have to assign texture maps to Fingernail, Toenail and Mouth Cavity with different file name, otherwise Atlas won't show them... (screenshot 1)

    Hi, to be sure to not make a mistake, have I to do that for every Nails map (NM, R, SO and SSS), or only for the D map?

    I see also a file TTCoco_Mouth_D_1001 already exists; have I to replace it? May I to give another name to the new one?

    Thank you in advance for your answer!

    You don't have to... actually the nails maps of Coco G9... at least to me, is not really neccessry on your G8 figure. If I were you, I would not convert them as it'll be a bit cumbersome, hoho ~

    As for TTCoco_Mouth_D_1001, that is for the attachment of "Genesis 9 Mouth" rather than the Mouth Cavity surface on G9 itself...You don't have to need and convert it, use any Mouth texture from a G8M character that you like on that figure.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,540

    yuyu.atem said:

    EightiesIsEnough said:

    Actually, there is one for G8/G8.1 Male: https://www.daz3d.com/legacy-uvs-for-genesis-9-genesis-3-8-and-81-male

    Oh, thank very much, it's great!heart

    But in fact, I just succed to fix the issue I encountered when I tried to convert G9 skin into G8M skin by using Wrap, so, I would like to try to finish it, to learn how to do, and also because it's fun! wink
    However, there is something I don't understand yet: in the TT Coco surface pane, there are also transluency map, specular maps, ambiant occlusion map, etc... But the Texture Atlas pane only saved a normal map and a diffuse map. As the same way, it only saved a bump map and a diffuse map for the G8M. Isn't it a problem to convert TT Coco's skin into G8M's skin?
    Especially, I'm interested by the transluency 45% material settings. Can it be correctly recreated by using only the TT Coco's diffuse and normal maps?

    Thank you in advance for your answer!

    It is also a problem to me... it seems that the atals does not recognize or really supports translucency... the roughness map in Dual Lobe, as well as AO maps, no matter on Iray Uber shader or PBRSkin shader...

    I don't know.... Maybe @Jay Versluis knows or other folk know...

  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 203

    crosswind said:

    It is also a problem to me... it seems that the atals does not recognize or really supports translucency... the roughness map in Dual Lobe, as well as AO maps, no matter on Iray Uber shader or PBRSkin shader...

    I don't know.... Maybe @Jay Versluis knows or other folk know...

    Thank you very much! Anyway, I almost succeeded to convert the diffuse map, but when I use it in DS, I have an issue on the eyelids lower:

    I don't know how to explain, I hope you can see it on the sceenshot... It looks like the eyelids was not smooth...

    In comparison, here are the eyelids of the G8 default texture:

    And here, the eyelids of the actual TT Coco:

    I guess it can be fixed in Wrap, but I don't know how to do. Here is what I obtained after wrapping:

        

    I have not manu experience with the brush node, and I didn't succeed to fix eyelids by using it. So, since the eyelids upper seemed to be too much behind the eyelids lower, I used a fix intersection node and a transform node on the eyelids upper (after making a subset of them). I obtained that:

        

    But in DS, it didn't fix the issue...

    Could you help me, please!

    Thank you in advance!

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,540

    Yes, Brush node will work in this case ~ You just need to turn on Symmetry on X axis, and smooth the mesh with Relax Brush. Lessen the distortion on the quads, make the eyelids just well close, no more no less, i.e. no overlapping. That'll do.

    Besides, the original Head map on G9 doesn't look really good... It seems to me that what you saw on G8 is almost the same texture as G9's... especially on the lower eyelid ~~

    SNAG-2024-6-30-000.png
    2560 x 1392 - 2M
    SNAG-2024-6-30-001.png
    2560 x 1392 - 1M
  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 203

    Thank you very much! I used the same settings as yours for the brush, and eyelids look better now! laughI have just some questions about it:

    - there iare spome parts where I relaxed too much and the eyelids become a bit too opended:

    I tried to use ctrl + left click + drag, since Wrap said it would invert the bruch effect, but it continued to open the eyes instead to close them... Is it possible to close them with the brush?

     

    - below the eye corner, there is a part not "smooth" (I show it with a red arrow); can it be fixed by a relax brush? Since I am not familiarized with the brush node, I am note sure about how to fix it...

        

    On the other eye, it looks different, so I am not sure if it could be a problem or not:

     

    - on the Viewport2D, we can see pretty well the issue on the map:

    Do you think it could be fixed directly on the map, maybe by using Gimp? I am a biginner with Gimp, so I am not sure what would be the best way to fix it... Do you think clonning the eyelid upper and paint the eyelid lower with it could be a good way? Or maybe it would exist a way to directly fix the map in Wrap (without  modifying the wrapped mesh itself, I mean)...

    Thank you in advance for your advice!

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,540

    Well, Ctrl + Drag... is for Sculpt Brush rather than Relax Brush. So the easy way might be using Undo and carefully Relax the mesh with proper brush size and strength... or you have to use a VertexMask node + Move Brush. Brush tools in Wrap is not as strong as the brush in Blender or ZBrush.

    As for the "difference", it may come from some characters that have asymmetrical mesh (no matter with fixed or floating geometry) ... so just separately fix them as much as you can.

    And certainly, you can directly fix the texuture maps in Image editing software. I frequently use this way.

  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 203

    Thank you very much! laugh I am working directly on the TT Cococ head map with Gimp. I used the Corrector tool (I am not sure what is its name in English, it can be activated from the H key), and I almost succeded to fix the issue on the eyelid. Here is a render of TT Coco with the modified skin:

    In comparison, here is the original TT Coco skin:

    But there is still a bit problem that I haven't succeded to fix yet:

    There is like a bump below each eye, so I guess it could be fixed with Gimp, but I have difficulties to identify the corresponding zone on the map:

    I tried to modify this zone because it seemed clearer the the other part around it, but I have not the impression it really improves:

        

    Do you have an idea about which zone needs to be modified on the map to fix it? I have difficulties to imagine which zone in 2D corresponds to which zone in 3D...

    Thank you in advance for your advice!

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,540

    Ha, sorry, I saw no difference on my side with my "old and dizzy eyes"... but I usually fix this sort of defect with Spot Healing Brush in Photoshop.

  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 203
    edited July 6

    Ah? You don't see the difference between these two versions?

       

    Anyway, I reazlized that the "bumps" I was talking about in my previous post was not in the skin itself: I appied another skin to TT Coco and there still were these bumps, so I guess it should be into the basemesh...

    I applied the diffuse map I obtained in Wrap to G8M, and now, I am trying to apply the same surface presets as TT Coco's ones. But I don't find exactly the same options in TT Coco's surface pane and in G8M's one:

        

    For example, I don't see TT Coco's "Metallicity Enabe" and the "Diffise Enable" in G8M's surface pane, and I don't see G8M's "Base Mixing" in TT Coco's suface pane. So, I wonder if it won't be a problem to obtain the correct skin on G8M... Is it possible to make appear TT Coco's options in G8M's surface pane?

    Thank you in advance for your help!

    Post edited by yuyu.atem on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,540

    Now I can see some difference... but I don't it comes from Base mesh other than texture maps...

    As for  the shader issue, G8M uses Iray Uber Shader while COCO G9 uses PBRSkin shader... they have different structure of shader as well as properties. You can apply PBRSkin shader to G8M and reconfigue the properties on skin surfaces of G8M

Sign In or Register to comment.