January 2016 New User 3D Art contest “Composition” (WIP Thread)

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  • SaphirewildSaphirewild Posts: 5,963

    Oh nooooo I so hope you feel beter soon Linwelly Being sick is no fun

  • LlynaraLlynara Posts: 4,764

    Well, I'm late to the party, but read all the links and most of this thread, and really love the challenge. There's so much to learn! I wanted to keep mine simple. There's still plenty to tweak. I call this, "Daydream". He'd dreaming of where he'd rather be, and so am I!

    Daydream.png
    1150 x 873 - 1M
  • Get well soon, Linwelly!

  • Thanks Ice Dragon Art!

    Yes, evilded777, I created this composition using the "golden ratio/spiral" as a guide.  I did as you suggested, and cropped mid thigh, it changed the overall perspective in a very negative way.  It compressed the distance between the characters significantly.  I did adjust the minstrels head position, thanks for that insight.  While the focus of this contest is composition, lighting plays a key role compositionally.  As you might notice, several lighting tweaks have focused emphasis as you suggested.  Thank you for forcing me to take a more critical look.  Revised image is currently rendering.  I will post new image shortly.  wink

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,394

    Thanks Ice Dragon Art!

    Yes, evilded777, I created this composition using the "golden ratio/spiral" as a guide.  I did as you suggested, and cropped mid thigh, it changed the overall perspective in a very negative way.  It compressed the distance between the characters significantly.  I did adjust the minstrels head position, thanks for that insight.  While the focus of this contest is composition, lighting plays a key role compositionally.  As you might notice, several lighting tweaks have focused emphasis as you suggested.  Thank you for forcing me to take a more critical look.  Revised image is currently rendering.  I will post new image shortly.  wink

    well, I'm glad it was some help.

  • giovannipaologiovannipaolo Posts: 249
    edited January 2016

    Minstrel and the Maiden Revisited

    Decided to add mat to see what it would feel like.  Thank all who provided comment and suggestion.  Get well soon Linwelly! smiley

     

    Minstrel and the Maiden Revisited.jpg
    1400 x 2100 - 2M
    Post edited by giovannipaolo on
  • LinwellyLinwelly Posts: 5,162

    Thanks for all the well wishes, at the moment my bed is my best friend, but it's getting better already.

  • TeofaTeofa Posts: 823
    edited January 2016

    Thanks Ice Dragon Art!

    Yes, evilded777, I created this composition using the "golden ratio/spiral" as a guide.  I did as you suggested, and cropped mid thigh, it changed the overall perspective in a very negative way.  It compressed the distance between the characters significantly.  I did adjust the minstrels head position, thanks for that insight.  While the focus of this contest is composition, lighting plays a key role compositionally.  As you might notice, several lighting tweaks have focused emphasis as you suggested.  Thank you for forcing me to take a more critical look.  Revised image is currently rendering.  I will post new image shortly.  wink

    It's a nice composition, but honestly, I don't think an arbitrary ratio or fibonacci has much to do with it being so.  Much as neither actually effects the Parthenon or the jillion other things proposed as evidence.  If you look hard enough, you can find a Doctor predicting fertility based on a womans internal reproductive system adhering to the golden mean.  May as well use Ley Lines.

    More of a case of "good eye" rather than trying to superimpose a composition guideline.  I think most compositional guildlines are helpful at some point, but the Golden Mean/Ratio tends to wander off into wishful mysticism.

    And I do think this is pertenant to a new user discussion.  You can religiously apply every "rule" in the book, and if it still looks off you need to use an eye to get to where you want to be.  My opinion.

    Post edited by Teofa on
  • TabascoJackTabascoJack Posts: 865
    edited January 2016

    Here's a last minute render.......

     

    Safe Travels

     

    DS 4.9, Iray, no postwork

    Starship model:  Federation Interceptor Battle Cruiser by herminio

    Safe Travels.jpg
    1024 x 576 - 273K
    Post edited by TabascoJack on
  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,468

    Here's a last minute render.......

     

    Safe Travels

     

    DS 4.9, Iray, no postwork

    Starship model:  Federation Interceptor Battle Cruiser by herminio

    That's pretty cool.  Really like the feeling of her being very very high as she sees them off.  compositon wise I have no advice.  I like but I don't know why if that makes any sense.

  • TeofaTeofa Posts: 823

    Here's a last minute render.......

     

    Safe Travels

     

    DS 4.9, Iray, no postwork

    Starship model:  Federation Interceptor Battle Cruiser by herminio

    It's really a cool render.  If I were to change anything I might delete the lower starship, but I'd have to then compare the two images.  I think the girl is positioned very well.

  • Teofa said:

    Thanks Ice Dragon Art!

    Yes, evilded777, I created this composition using the "golden ratio/spiral" as a guide.  I did as you suggested, and cropped mid thigh, it changed the overall perspective in a very negative way.  It compressed the distance between the characters significantly.  I did adjust the minstrels head position, thanks for that insight.  While the focus of this contest is composition, lighting plays a key role compositionally.  As you might notice, several lighting tweaks have focused emphasis as you suggested.  Thank you for forcing me to take a more critical look.  Revised image is currently rendering.  I will post new image shortly.  wink

    It's a nice composition, but honestly, I don't think an arbitrary ratio or fibonacci has much to do with it being so.  Much as neither actually effects the Parthenon or the jillion other things proposed as evidence.  If you look hard enough, you can find a Doctor predicting fertility based on a womans internal reproductive system adhering to the golden mean.  May as well use Ley Lines.

    More of a case of "good eye" rather than trying to superimpose a composition guideline.  I think most compositional guildlines are helpful at some point, but the Golden Mean/Ratio tends to wander off into wishful mysticism.

    And I do think this is pertenant to a new user discussion.  You can religiously apply every "rule" in the book, and if it still looks off you need to use an eye to get to where you want to be.  My opinion.

    In my opinion, you are spot on, the challenge though. . .not everyone has an "eye" for what constitutes powerful or pleasing composition.  The "beginner" should at least be aware of these "guidelines" so they can eventually break the "rules," searching for the "best" way of seeing.  This is especially true for the artist.  Until this contest, I had never given the Golden Mean much thought except for Aristotle's philosophical  notion of it.  I love an honest opinion, thanks very much!

     

  • TabascoJackTabascoJack Posts: 865
    edited January 2016

    Changed the color of the crystal in the staff to be more in tune with the rest of the color palette (I though the emerald green was too distracting).

    Per Teofa's suggestion, one image with two ships, the other with three.

     

     

    DS 4.9, Iray, no postwork

    Starship model:  Federation Interceptor Battle Cruiser by herminio

    Safe Travels - Duo.jpg
    1024 x 576 - 253K
    Safe Travels - Trio.jpg
    1024 x 576 - 273K
    Post edited by TabascoJack on
  • TeofaTeofa Posts: 823
    edited January 2016

    I do like the 2 ship version better.  I guess I wasn't liking ship 3 being cut off, or something.  Also her focus seemed more on the two far ships.  Following her implied sight line took me to them.

    I like null space though too.

    One challenge for me is asking.. "Why do I like this over that", which I then apply to myself, or try to.

     

    Post edited by Teofa on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    Teofa said:

    I do like the 2 ship version better.  I guess I wasn't liking ship 3 being cut off, or something.  Also her focus seemed more on the two far ships.  Following her implied sight line took me to them.

    I like null space though too.

    One challenge for me is asking.. "Why do I like this over that", which I then apply to myself, or try to.

     

    I agree, I prefer the 2 ship one, although normally I like things to be in 3s.

  • SaphirewildSaphirewild Posts: 5,963
    Chohole said:
    Teofa said:

    I do like the 2 ship version better.  I guess I wasn't liking ship 3 being cut off, or something.  Also her focus seemed more on the two far ships.  Following her implied sight line took me to them.

    I like null space though too.

    One challenge for me is asking.. "Why do I like this over that", which I then apply to myself, or try to.

     

    I agree, I prefer the 2 ship one, although normally I like things to be in 3s.

    I totally agree with both Teofa and Chohole on the only 2 ships being the best of the 2 renders......as Teofa said her line of sight brings us right to the 2 ships so it is best to have only the 2 ships

  • TabascoJackTabascoJack Posts: 865
    edited January 2016

    Slight change to camera angle and zoomed in closer to the woman.  I'm pretty happy with this one.

    DS 4.9, Iray, no postwork

    Starship model:  Federation Interceptor Battle Cruiser by herminio

    Safe Travels B.jpg
    1024 x 576 - 258K
    Post edited by TabascoJack on
  • SaphirewildSaphirewild Posts: 5,963

    Slight change to camera angle and zoomed in on the woman.  I'm pretty happy with this one.

    DS 4.9, Iray, no postwork

    Starship model:  Federation Interceptor Battle Cruiser by herminio

    I am really liking this last render WOW is all I can say about this, She looks great close up and still draws me to the 2 ships......simply amazing render Jack!!

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,468

    Slight change to camera angle and zoomed in closer to the woman.  I'm pretty happy with this one.

    DS 4.9, Iray, no postwork

    Starship model:  Federation Interceptor Battle Cruiser by herminio

    Definitely the 2.  and you were spot on as far as the staff lighting goes as well, the blue looks much better

  • LlynaraLlynara Posts: 4,764
    edited January 2016

    Second try. I cropped the image and gave the background a guassian blur to add more depth of field. Just a figure study really, to practice composition. I like the golden light and soft shadows as they play across his features. I think it looks pretty good for not being Iray.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • Thanks to Teofa, Sonja, Chohole, and Saphirewild!  I greatly appreciate the feedback.  Communities like this make such a huge difference.

     

  • Lynara, can you pull the camera back a bit?  

    From a composition point of view, I feel like he completely dominates the vertical spacing.

  • GallowsGallows Posts: 95
    edited January 2016

    the Captive...with posing changes.

    Image removed for nudity (aerolas and nipples could be made out).  http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/3279/acceptable-ways-of-handling-nudity#latest

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • TeofaTeofa Posts: 823
    edited January 2016
    Llynara said:

    Second try. I cropped the image and gave the background a guassian blur to add more depth of field. Just a figure study really, to practice composition. I like the golden light and soft shadows as they play across his features. I think it looks pretty good for not being Iray.

    I would agree, with this pose he is filling a bit too much of the image.  I would pull back and move him a little left, and go a little more with a landscape style framing with a bit more image on the right side.

    3Delight still has plenty of legs.  I'm not liking the flatness of many IRAY renders, it seems more optimized for typical close up minimal background photorealism portraiture and less ideal for landscapes and a more stylized realism.  My opinion though.  I'm not a fan of photorealism, I may be drawn and quartered for not being one.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • SaphirewildSaphirewild Posts: 5,963
    edited January 2016
    Llynara said:

    Second try. I cropped the image and gave the background a guassian blur to add more depth of field. Just a figure study really, to practice composition. I like the golden light and soft shadows as they play across his features. I think it looks pretty good for not being Iray.

    I agree with Teofa he does seem to dominate the render and you should pull him back a bit and the lightng on him seems to be real strong maybe tone it down just a little bit.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,307
    Holloko said:

    Okay, my novice state will be evident as I was unable to complete some of the advice given for a lack of resources or knowledge as to how to do it... FYI, I do not have Photoshop. Any postwork I do I complete using OnOne Software.

    I pulled the shot back so the spiral centered on the eye and Marc Antony does not look decapitated. I also lightened it significantly. I replaced the "plastic" dress with this blue one. I realize the hair is not great and the beads look neon, but I am on a tight budget and cannot purchase another, better headpiece, so it will have to do. I tried to tone down the beads a bit during postwork, but they are still bright. 

    As for the tone of the piece: I don't want Cleopatra to be weeping. She was a brutal tyrant, so I am affording her a single tear over the loss of Antony (I did not spend much time trying to figure out how to make the tear shimmer since I don't have Photoshop). I did change her hand position so she is cradling his head more and stroking his temple area with her thumb (thanks to my wife for the time to model this together to find the natural look!). I want it to be a tender moment saying goodbye to her lover, not a grief-stricken moment.

    To assure viewers that Antony is dead, I've added blood to the floor and some sublte splatter on his armor. Overall, I am hoping to convey in Cleo a sense of sorrow mixed with acceptance. I tried to bring into focus the things of which she is aware: herself, Antony, and the blood. I have gone back and forth several times about the snake. I kind of want her to be aware of it (so it would be in focus, or coming into focus to indicate she is becoming aware of it), but it looks a little funny if it is in focus while the rest of the background is not.

    I really fought the lighting. That is definitely one of my greatest weaknesses (3delight by the way). I tried single lights, no ambient, ambient and different levels, 3-point lights, distant lights, two-point light, etc. I ended up using low ambient light (about 30%) with a two-point spot light. These are also low intensity (about 50%). All of them are blue tones. I found if I used a backlight, it light Antony's face and/or armor too much regardless of where I placed it and how low I set the intensity.

    Thanks for the advice so far; sorry for the items I was not able to do for one reason or another.

    All right, let me have it!

    Sorry I haven't been here in a while.  I've been pretty busy. 

    First of all, I LIKE this one!  They are interacting, Marc isn't headless, the blue dress works, the tear is great and the snake and background out of focus is wonderful! 

    No complaints.

  • Hi all, just popping my head in.  I've been playing with shaders and refraction rates.  All I can say is if you move the dial on the refraction rate for water, you sometimes get totally weird renders.  I think I'm sticking with the current water shader as the other I tried don't have nearly the effect I want as the one from the Liquid Pack.  Anyway, I should have something up tomorrow.

    @cherpenbeck - I really like the second one.  It is a definite improvement over the first.  I think moving the smaller ship was a good move.  I like the overall black and white composition.  I like how the lights and shadows interact in the render.

    @giovannipaoloartist - I love this composition and I think you did it really well.  I have absolutely no idea how you could improve it.

    @TabascoJack - I really liked your last render with the closer view and two ships.  It is a nice composition.  I don't really have any insight or suggestions for improving it as I think it looks nice the way you have it.  You have a nice color palette.  If I were to make a suggestion it would be to have the ships a different color to make them really stand out, but I'm not familiar with that ship and don't know how labor intensive something like that would be.  And even if I might wonder how it would look with a more dramatic ship color, doesn't mean my opinion has any merit, just that my first thought when seeing this was I wonder how it would look if the ships had more focus or stood out from the background more.

    @Llynara - I'm with most of the others on pulling back a little.  Either that or go in closer.  Portraits like that have a comfort threshold that people subconsciously expect.  The figure either needs to be at a certain distance for the eye to take in more or it needs to be closer with something the eye can focus on.  With the current frame up, the goes all over the place and isn't comfortable looking just at the figure.  I have no idea if I'm explaining this so others can understand it, though.  You need to decide if you want that close up, if so go in way closer, or if you want that overall distant portrait feel, if so pull back and let those palm trees frame your figure more.  Maybe change the angle slightly and see if you can get more of the palm tops in the shot.  You can always shorten the palm trees if needed.  With the current framing he feels uncomfortable.  However, you have a great expression on him and it would actually look great as a close up.  Since this is a composition themed month, I have no idea which route would be better, my guess is the distance shot and not the close up.  Although, a great close up is usually comprised of some very good compositional techniques.

    Well, that is it for my dubious pearls of wisdom.  It is crunch time now and everyone (me included) needs to step it up before the deadline gets here.

  • TeofaTeofa Posts: 823
    edited January 2016

    Last minute wip.  I found this lovely char, Lenore, in DS Creative Magazine. Love the Asian cast to her eyes.  I had been listening to Chess, the musical earlier.  Yes, still a fan of Murray Head and ABBA.

    This just popped into my head.  Its rough and I need to fiddle with posing details and such.  I'd just love some critique on the basic composition and image concept.

    "Not Much between Despair and Ecstasy"

    Not Much.jpg
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    Post edited by Teofa on
  • LinwellyLinwelly Posts: 5,162
    edited January 2016
    Llynara said:

    Second try. I cropped the image and gave the background a guassian blur to add more depth of field. Just a figure study really, to practice composition. I like the golden light and soft shadows as they play across his features. I think it looks pretty good for not being Iray.

    I agree with Teofa he does seem to dominate the render and you should pull him back a bit and the lightng on him seems to be real strong maybe tone it down just a little bit.

    Lynara, I think you should try to move the camera to a position where the palm trunks are not growing out of his back, Not sure if you can move him closer to the palms so that the trunks show up on the side of his shouders, alternatively rotate him a bit with the camera.

    Post edited by Linwelly on
  • LlynaraLlynara Posts: 4,764

    Here's attempt #3. I've pulled back a little and toned down the lighting. I'll play with positioning/palm trees tonight.

    Thanks for the feedback!

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