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  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,401

    Greetings,

    Ken OBanion said:

    I absolutely will not have anything to do with the 'Cloud' -- especially in a business/enterprise environment.  My attitude is, if you cannot physically lay a hand on the device that holds your business data, then you are not in control of that data.  And if you have sent your data up to the 'Cloud', then you've just handed control of that data to somebody else.  Do you really know who those people are?  Do you trust them?  Really?  That much?

    If you're running a dry-cleaning business, that's fine.  There's a lot of businesses that qualify as dry-cleaning businesses, and that's perfectly okay.  You have one proprietor, every widget/service you sell requires actual labor to produce and sell it, and one computer is pretty much enough to hold all the business data.

    If you're dealing with thousands (or more) of users or clients, or providing a service that requires little or no additional labor per-sale (scalable sales), or you have a widely dispersed sales force, then using a commercial infrastructure is pretty close to a requirement.  There's absolutely no value in building out your own infrastructure when it's available for pennies from a service provider like Amazon, Salesforce, Microsoft, or Google.

    It's akin to saying:

    If you've sent your goods via commercial shipping, you're not in control of your goods anymore. Do you really know who those people are, driving those trucks? Do you trust them? Really? That much?

    In the same way that we don't question shipping goods via commercial transit, there's no question about shipping data via commercial infrastructures.

    Again, if you're sending bespoke items via etsy, or from a sole proprietor craft shop, maybe you can use USPS, or even hand-delivery for local goods, but it's just not scalable for your business.

    --  Morgan

     

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    CypherFOX said:

    Greetings,

    Ken OBanion said:

    I absolutely will not have anything to do with the 'Cloud' -- especially in a business/enterprise environment.  My attitude is, if you cannot physically lay a hand on the device that holds your business data, then you are not in control of that data.  And if you have sent your data up to the 'Cloud', then you've just handed control of that data to somebody else.  Do you really know who those people are?  Do you trust them?  Really?  That much?

    If you're running a dry-cleaning business, that's fine.  There's a lot of businesses that qualify as dry-cleaning businesses, and that's perfectly okay.  You have one proprietor, every widget/service you sell requires actual labor to produce and sell it, and one computer is pretty much enough to hold all the business data.

    If you're dealing with thousands (or more) of users or clients, or providing a service that requires little or no additional labor per-sale (scalable sales), or you have a widely dispersed sales force, then using a commercial infrastructure is pretty close to a requirement.  There's absolutely no value in building out your own infrastructure when it's available for pennies from a service provider like Amazon, Salesforce, Microsoft, or Google.

    It's akin to saying:

    If you've sent your goods via commercial shipping, you're not in control of your goods anymore. Do you really know who those people are, driving those trucks? Do you trust them? Really? That much?

    In the same way that we don't question shipping goods via commercial transit, there's no question about shipping data via commercial infrastructures.

    Again, if you're sending bespoke items via etsy, or from a sole proprietor craft shop, maybe you can use USPS, or even hand-delivery for local goods, but it's just not scalable for your business.

    --  Morgan

     

    This would be a valid analogy, but for one major issue; the product shipped by courier, either arrives, or it doesnt. It really is that clear cut.

    Data, however, is different; it can get to its destination without issue; that, however, doesn't mean it wasn't intercepted, copied, and sent on its merry way; we are none-the-wiser, and we hope that nothing untoward comes from the interception and (likelycopy). Sadly, the days of prank: viruses, trojans, worms, DDoS attacks, spoofing, and I could go on - are a thing of the past.

  • cdemeritcdemerit Posts: 505

    It might just be my paranoid nature, but any company that is pushing this hard to "give" me their newest and best software makes me highly suspisious. If they had simply made the offer and left me alone, I probably would have upgraded by now. But with past experience, I never update windows until after SP2 comes out... and even then I wait a month or so... However with the way this "update" is being pushed, I feel like I'm dealing with a crack dealer or "that guy" at the party that simply cannot accept that you aren't drinking...

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704

    I did take Microsoft up on updating a previous computer. It upgraded, but the track pad just would not work well in 10. It was like being underwater. Sluggish. There was no update for the driver, so I uninstalled it.

    Uninstalling 10 was easy, but my computer never worked the same again. I think it did something to my comptuer. Shortly after the computer failed and I replaced it anyway.

    I am now wary of windows 10. My experience thus far has been negative.

  • bad4ubad4u Posts: 684
    edited December 2015
    Byrdie said:
     

    To upgrade or not to upgrade, that is the question.indecision

    Glad that won't be a question anymore soon. When Microsoft re-categorizes Windows10 Update from 'optional update' to 'recommended update' most Win7 and Win8 PCs will automatically download and install it through Windows Update, at least if you don't turn off 'automatic updates' before it rolls out. At least that's what MS plans, but they promise they'll gonna prompt you to agree or decline - probably after the 3GB download. Seems they care. Really. ^^

    Have fun ;)

     

    Windows 10 and Windows Update

    We will soon be publishing Windows 10 as an “Optional Update” in Windows Update for all Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 customers. Windows Update is the trusted, logical location for our most important updates, and adding Windows 10 here is another way we will make it easy for you to find your upgrade.

    Early next year, we expect to be re-categorizing Windows 10 as a “Recommended Update”. Depending upon your Windows Update settings, this may cause the upgrade process to automatically initiate on your device. Before the upgrade changes the OS of your device, you will be clearly prompted to choose whether or not to continue. And of course, if you choose to upgrade (our recommendation!), then you will have 31 days to roll back to your previous Windows version if you don’t love it.

    If you are on a metered connection on Windows 7 or Windows 8.1, then you have the option of turning off automatic updates. We strongly discourage this in today’s connected world because of the constant risk of internet threats. If you choose to do so, we recommend manually checking Windows Update frequently, perhaps when you are on a non-metered network and consider the installation of all “Recommended” and “Important” updates.

    from https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2015/10/29/making-it-easier-to-upgrade-to-windows-10/

     

    PS: Just a trivia, but did I mention that blog entry is under the title 'Making it Easier to Upgrade to Windows 10' ?

    lol

     

    Post edited by bad4u on
  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 2,995

    If you want to stop the Windows 10 garbage, block microsoft.com at your router.  Don't allow any communications there at all.  If you need a driver from microsoft (unlikely), open the router only long enough to get the driver and then lock it back down.

    Kendall

  • Ken OBanionKen OBanion Posts: 1,455
    nicstt said:
    CypherFOX said:

    Greetings,

    Ken OBanion said:

    I absolutely will not have anything to do with the 'Cloud' -- especially in a business/enterprise environment.  My attitude is, if you cannot physically lay a hand on the device that holds your business data, then you are not in control of that data.  And if you have sent your data up to the 'Cloud', then you've just handed control of that data to somebody else.  Do you really know who those people are?  Do you trust them?  Really?  That much?

    If you're running a dry-cleaning business, that's fine.  There's a lot of businesses that qualify as dry-cleaning businesses, and that's perfectly okay.  You have one proprietor, every widget/service you sell requires actual labor to produce and sell it, and one computer is pretty much enough to hold all the business data.

    If you're dealing with thousands (or more) of users or clients, or providing a service that requires little or no additional labor per-sale (scalable sales), or you have a widely dispersed sales force, then using a commercial infrastructure is pretty close to a requirement.  There's absolutely no value in building out your own infrastructure when it's available for pennies from a service provider like Amazon, Salesforce, Microsoft, or Google.

    It's akin to saying:

    If you've sent your goods via commercial shipping, you're not in control of your goods anymore. Do you really know who those people are, driving those trucks? Do you trust them? Really? That much?

    In the same way that we don't question shipping goods via commercial transit, there's no question about shipping data via commercial infrastructures.

    Again, if you're sending bespoke items via etsy, or from a sole proprietor craft shop, maybe you can use USPS, or even hand-delivery for local goods, but it's just not scalable for your business.

    --  Morgan

     

    This would be a valid analogy, but for one major issue; the product shipped by courier, either arrives, or it doesnt. It really is that clear cut.

    Data, however, is different; it can get to its destination without issue; that, however, doesn't mean it wasn't intercepted, copied, and sent on its merry way; we are none-the-wiser, and we hope that nothing untoward comes from the interception and (likelycopy). Sadly, the days of prank: viruses, trojans, worms, DDoS attacks, spoofing, and I could go on - are a thing of the past.

    My point exactly, nicstt! 

    But it isn't just the transmission of that data; one has to be ever-cognizant of where the data actually resides.  Is it stored on a server in Peoria, or Peshawar?  Seattle, or Shanghai?  Every byte of data must physically exist somewhere, and if your 'Cloud' service provider cannot, or will not, tell you up-front where that somewhere is....

    I do, however, have one minor quibble with one thing you noted, to wit: 'Sadly, the days of prank: viruses, trojans, worms, DDoS attacks, spoofing, and I could go on - are a thing of the past.'  Sadly, they are not; they are things of the present, and even more sadly, very likely of our future, as well.

  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 2,711

    If they made a version of windows 10, that was like an improved windows 7, I would probably upgrade. I use a barebones windows 7, I don't need no fancy aero stuff, and smooth animations, pretty this, sparkly that. I don't want it.

    I want all my processing power and graphics card power to be going to my physics calculations, or render, or game, or whatever it is I am doing. I definately don't want my OS using my network for any reason without me telling it to. I don't need that crap at ll.

    I tried windows 8 for a month, and hated it. I want a PC, with a normal desktop, not some iphone garbage. If software and game companies would start supporting linux, I would be there. I use houdini in linux and windows, the linux version is better all around. I suppose because barebones xubuntu takes up a lot less resources than even my barebones windows. I am just fed up with losing control and freedom, for "safety" and "conveniace, in all aspects of my life.  

    My mom got dad a new laptop with touch screen for xmas, has qindows 8 on it. I of course had to get it up and running, take off apps he will never use to streamline it, what a nightmare. Took me forever to figure out how to add things, it's frustrating not knowing how to do things that are simple in win7. He don't know computers at all, and gets frustrated, wanting to learn it all himself, never wanting to ask for help. That is where I get it from I suppose lol. I spent years learning how to manipulate windows 7 to be what I want it to be, and I really don't want to do that again. 

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704

    I agree. I don't want to waste processing power on bells and whistles. 7 has everything I really need. Wish Microsoft would just leave it alone.

  • fred9803fred9803 Posts: 1,565

    And I still remember being able to watch Youtube without having unwanted advertising shoved down my throat every time I tried to watch a video. Like MS, I don't remember them asking us if we wanted this. I guess they already knew what the answer would be.

  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,388

    My laptop is on Windows 10 and is mostly working fine.  Since July, I just let it update whenever it wanted.  It was very convenient.

    Then just after Thanksgiving, I started having graphic driver crashes.  I'm sure something got screwed up in an update from Microsoft.

    So now I have configured Windows 10 Pro (via the group policy) to not apply any updates, but to notify me instead.  I still apply them when they come in, but no way are they automatic anymore.  Because of this screwup, my workstation computer is still Windows 8.1 and will stay that way until just about the last minute before they start charging money for an upgrade to 10.

    Microsoft, this is what your carelessness has done.  It's not my fault!

  • sfaa69sfaa69 Posts: 353

    A cursory search of Win10 drawbacks will result in finding that by using it, you are agreeing(EULA) to allow Microsoft to access anything on your computer and use whatever they find for any purpose they wish. In addition, they may use your computer to assist them in whatever they want to do to other Microsoft computers, using your bandwidth. Think your data is safe on your hard drive?

  • fred9803fred9803 Posts: 1,565
    edited December 2015
    sfaa69 said:

    A cursory search of Win10 drawbacks will result in finding that by using it, you are agreeing(EULA) to allow Microsoft to access anything on your computer and use whatever they find for any purpose they wish. In addition, they may use your computer to assist them in whatever they want to do to other Microsoft computers, using your bandwidth. Think your data is safe on your hard drive?

    MS and Widnows is essentially like the Nth Korean Red Star OS in that is peppered with back doors to allow security services to remotely access your HD data. Regimes, ethier ours or others, only do so because they can. The need to do so is insignificant, and the rationale for doing so is simply the ability to do so.

    Post edited by fred9803 on
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    edited December 2015
    Ken OBanion said:
    nicstt said:
    CypherFOX said:

    Greetings,

    Ken OBanion said:

    I absolutely will not have anything to do with the 'Cloud' -- especially in a business/enterprise environment.  My attitude is, if you cannot physically lay a hand on the device that holds your business data, then you are not in control of that data.  And if you have sent your data up to the 'Cloud', then you've just handed control of that data to somebody else.  Do you really know who those people are?  Do you trust them?  Really?  That much?

    If you're running a dry-cleaning business, that's fine.  There's a lot of businesses that qualify as dry-cleaning businesses, and that's perfectly okay.  You have one proprietor, every widget/service you sell requires actual labor to produce and sell it, and one computer is pretty much enough to hold all the business data.

    If you're dealing with thousands (or more) of users or clients, or providing a service that requires little or no additional labor per-sale (scalable sales), or you have a widely dispersed sales force, then using a commercial infrastructure is pretty close to a requirement.  There's absolutely no value in building out your own infrastructure when it's available for pennies from a service provider like Amazon, Salesforce, Microsoft, or Google.

    It's akin to saying:

    If you've sent your goods via commercial shipping, you're not in control of your goods anymore. Do you really know who those people are, driving those trucks? Do you trust them? Really? That much?

    In the same way that we don't question shipping goods via commercial transit, there's no question about shipping data via commercial infrastructures.

    Again, if you're sending bespoke items via etsy, or from a sole proprietor craft shop, maybe you can use USPS, or even hand-delivery for local goods, but it's just not scalable for your business.

    --  Morgan

     

    This would be a valid analogy, but for one major issue; the product shipped by courier, either arrives, or it doesnt. It really is that clear cut.

    Data, however, is different; it can get to its destination without issue; that, however, doesn't mean it wasn't intercepted, copied, and sent on its merry way; we are none-the-wiser, and we hope that nothing untoward comes from the interception and (likelycopy). Sadly, the days of prank: viruses, trojans, worms, DDoS attacks, spoofing, and I could go on - are a thing of the past.

    My point exactly, nicstt! 

    But it isn't just the transmission of that data; one has to be ever-cognizant of where the data actually resides.  Is it stored on a server in Peoria, or Peshawar?  Seattle, or Shanghai?  Every byte of data must physically exist somewhere, and if your 'Cloud' service provider cannot, or will not, tell you up-front where that somewhere is....

    I do, however, have one minor quibble with one thing you noted, to wit: 'Sadly, the days of prank: viruses, trojans, worms, DDoS attacks, spoofing, and I could go on - are a thing of the past.'  Sadly, they are not; they are things of the present, and even more sadly, very likely of our future, as well.

    Indeed, but they are rarely the result of pranks, the intent is malicious; invarialby an attempt to extract financial or other gain; the early viruses used to display messages on the screen, or simiar harmless pranks.

    Post edited by nicstt on
  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 4,453

    I've an XP system that does not connect to the internet that I use for viewing video, listening to music, and running my scanner/OCR software and Libre Office. All these are working just fine, so there will never be a reason to update the system. My render system is running Win 7 pro and also has no internet connectivity - and will only need updates if and when DAZ Studio no longer supports Win 7.

    My laptop, used to drag files from a wi-fi hotspot, runs Win 8.1 - and has been configured to NOT look for Microsoft updates - and is an early enough build to obey that restriction. My XP laptop is still working - need to find a home for it - and it never did updates; after 6 years of daily wi-fi access it also never got contaminated with any detectable malware.

    So Microsoft can take their Windows 10  - I've no interest in it, and from the sound of it, I'd actually class it as malware, to be deleted if it ever showed up.

  • fred9803fred9803 Posts: 1,565

    I suspect the only way to remain free of regime (NSA) surveillance is to not to be online at all or at least give the appearance of state support. North Koreans know how everyone is being watched, and behave accordingly.  We should do likewise.

     

     

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,773

    This is starting to get into politics - please drop that aspect of the discussion.

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 12,166
    edited December 2015

    Oh, I miss the good old days (1970s).  The first computers I was in charge of for a corporation (Computer Sciences Corp at the Kennedy Space Center) had pretty good security.  My office desk was in the lab where the two computers were,  I was in the lab all day.  Of all the people permitted access to the room, I was the only one who knew anything at all about how to enter data or run programs.  The computers were each the size of two large chest freezers with the processing power of a 20 year old calculator and there was no communication between them or to the outside world until a year or so after I took over and then the data flow was only out, under my control.  Security was a key in the door at night.   Bugs had six legs and usually died in the cabinet and could be vacuumed out, viruses were present but if you washed your hands conscienciously you kept them under control.  The computer manufacturer (Raytheon) sent me updates in the post mail and they included new pages for the documentation manuals which I religiously kept updated.  The operating system was simple enough that I was able to read the entire code listing from microfiche and produce a flowchart from which I found a logic error in their handling of real-time multi-task process switching which they fixed after I sent them my flowchart and documentation, implying that updates were a two way street! yes

    Shortly after that, some upstart in the northwest created a computer cheap enough for regular people to buy and the world went to hell! crying

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • BobvanBobvan Posts: 2,653

    M$ is very sneaky. I left 10 on my 2 newer machines. It would not work well on my older laptop (took several mintutes for the screen to appear) I had a fresh 7 re installed, hid the "update to 10" files. Every so often in spite of having them hidden, the main one (finishes with 83 I think) tries to rear it's ugly head and comes unhidden on it's own every once in a while...

  • ByrdieByrdie Posts: 1,783

    After hearing all this, plus the further reading I've done, I am thinking I'll stick with Win7 Pro on the new machine. Is there any sort of list anywhere that can give me a clue as to which updates out of all those 210 -- 219 if I count the optional ones -- are absolutely necessary? With so many having practically identical descriptions, it's hard to know what's what.

    Days like these, I wish corporate "personhood" was a reality and not just a legality. Then I could put Microsoft across my knee for a well-deserved spanking.

  • N-RArtsN-RArts Posts: 1,606

    When I got my laptop, the keyboard didn't work, but when they released the upgrade to Win 8.1, the problem was fixed. I suppose that's another reason why I'm not in a hurry to upgrade (just in case the keyboard stops working again). 

    I received a Windows 10 tablet for Christmas. The only thing that I've used it for (so far) is gaming. Tbh, I'm trying to stop/resolve the privacy/spying issues that I keep hearing about (oh, and disabling one drive). I just wish that I could use Daz3D on it.   

    I know it's only a tablet, but if that's what Win 10 is like... I'm not really impressed. At the end of the day, it is just another OS system (at least, that's what I think about it).

     

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,090

    My only big complaint about Win10 (I have many small ones) is that I REALLY miss the robust 'previously used files/folders' that 8.1 had.

    I so often have to end up pinning stuff or searching yet again for files, unlike before. Ugh.

    Yeah, there's a Recent function in 10, but it's a much smaller and more limited list. I used to be able to go through 20+ entries to find stuff I've been using.

     

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,282
    timmins.william said:

    My only big complaint about Win10 (I have many small ones) is that I REALLY miss the robust 'previously used files/folders' that 8.1 had.

    I so often have to end up pinning stuff or searching yet again for files, unlike before. Ugh.

    Yeah, there's a Recent function in 10, but it's a much smaller and more limited list. I used to be able to go through 20+ entries to find stuff I've been using.

    Try Listary, it's a fantastic tool for accessing files and folders.

    http://www.listary.com/

  • macleanmaclean Posts: 2,438

    I've never seen a Windows 10 pop-up yet.

    I run Win 7 Pro with automatic updates switched off, and I recently did a clean re-install. After install, I activated Win7, downloaded the updates (choosing what to install), then switched auto updates off.

    Not that I'm anxious to see an annoying pop-up, but I wonder why I don't ever see it.

    Btw, I also recommend Listary. I use it to access all my favorite folders, (I always remove MS Libraries and all that other useless junk).

    mac

  • ValandarValandar Posts: 1,417
    Ken OBanion said:

    I absolutely will not have anything to do with the 'Cloud' -- especially in a business/enterprise environment.  My attitude is, if you cannot physically lay a hand on the device that holds your business data, then you are not in control of that data.  And if you have sent your data up to the 'Cloud', then you've just handed control of that data to somebody else.  Do you really know who those people are?  Do you trust them?  Really?  That much?

    And according to a quick check, the Adobe Cloud, just as an example, has been hacked or cracked many, many times since it came out - sometimes for account info, other times for actual image info.

  • Stryder87Stryder87 Posts: 899

    The more Microsoft pushes, the more I resist.  They have their agendas and I plan to be no part of them.  I work in IT.  I used to love it.  Now I hate IT, tech, computers and mostly the invasive companies (ie-Microsoft) that assume they know what's best for me.  No they don't, and Windows 10 will NEVER go on my box at home.  I have a couple more years before support ends for Win7, then a few more after that that it will still run fine.  Then I go to 8.1 until it's not going to work any longer.  Just with those two options I have another, maybe 8 years.  After that, I take my box offline and put a dummy box on the internet, probably with Server on it as they can't force any of their crap onto a server (esp Win10), or perhaps a Mac of some kind.  That box will only be used to download updates, DAZ purchases etc.  Microsoft has become nothing but a spyware-infested, arrogant company that I despise.  They are NOT smarter than me, and they do NOT know what's best for me.  They know what's best for their bottom line.  Well they can kiss my bottom line.  I will not surrender control of MY hardware.

    My two-bits.  smiley

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 3,278
    edited January 2016
    Kendall Sears said:

    If you want to stop the Windows 10 garbage, block microsoft.com at your router.  Don't allow any communications there at all.  If you need a driver from microsoft (unlikely), open the router only long enough to get the driver and then lock it back down.

    Kendall

    not a useful solution you stream video from your ms account, have Hotmail, onedrive or own a 360 or xbox 1

     

    @stryder87

     win7 support ended months ago, we get security patches but no fixes any longer. 

    Post edited by StratDragon on
  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 2,995
    StratDragon said:
    Kendall Sears said:

    If you want to stop the Windows 10 garbage, block microsoft.com at your router.  Don't allow any communications there at all.  If you need a driver from microsoft (unlikely), open the router only long enough to get the driver and then lock it back down.

    Kendall

    not a useful solution you stream video from your ms account, have Hotmail, onedrive or own a 360 or xbox 1

     

    @stryder87

     win7 support ended months ago, we get security patches but no fixes any longer. 

    If you're at this stage, you've already drank the Kool-AId and there isn't any way to save ya.  Sorry, prognosis -- terminal.  :)

    Kendall

  • AnotherUserNameAnotherUserName Posts: 2,727
    Kendall Sears said:

    If you want to stop the Windows 10 garbage, block microsoft.com at your router.  Don't allow any communications there at all.  If you need a driver from microsoft (unlikely), open the router only long enough to get the driver and then lock it back down.

    Kendall

    I never would have thought of this! Thanks for the suggestion.

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