Too rich for my blood...
RitaCeleste
Posts: 625
I have just tried to look at daz after a year of being away. Now there is a Genesis 3....More and more people to buy for morphs. The club seems to cost more and I never got all the $2 stuff I wanted. I was over-sold I suppose. I spent a lot of money before I knew it. I am going to play with my old stuff and get it installed. I am just going to have learn to build more instead of buy more. I would love some morph packs. I would love some skin textures to tinker with. But I am sick with how often they roll out characters. Environments are safe, maybe, everything else will be outdated before I can use it. Anyway, I am choosing to bead and color mandalas etc and have other hobbies because this just costs me so very much in time and money. I will just be playing with what I have for a bit if I play when I get it all installed. Just wanted to say something about where I am at and why I am not spend, spend, spending anymore. Perhaps I just need time to enjoy what I have already. I love beads, making makeup, things where you have raw materials and you turn them into something. The idea of one model that could be a 1000 dolls just blew me away. But now the morph packs don't make me feel like I can turn it into much without spend spend spending. Maybe if I win the lotto, yeah, that's the ticket....
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Hi RitaCeleste,
I never understood the outdated mentality. Victoria 4, for example, continues to have enormous support, so does Michael 4. They can still be used in Poser and DAZ Studio. I can understand having an issue if Poser and DAZ Studio stopped making the applications compatible with past figures, but that's not the case.
I still use figures like Michael 3 and Victoria 3 when I have no other choice; for example, when there is a clothing piece I just can't auto-fit it to any of the Genesis figures reasonably well.
on the bright side the older stuff is often on sale and I have grabbed a lot this year
After much thought, I might like to build morphs for genisis 5 or 6 only and body textures and clothes. It will take me that long get the software together to do this not to mention the time after my kids are grown up. I could never plan on being a merchant because I'd refuse to buy Vicky and Micheal and 100 other dollies so I could transfer morphs to clothes I created. The idea that poser had that people could save all the poses, morphs etc and share them and that people would never need to reinvent the wheel so it would save time is lost, gone, obliterated. Need a mini-skirt to sell with cool shirt, you gotta build it again, copyrights ya know...To save time you gotta buy and spend. I have more time than money and this is a poor hobby fit for me. Sometimes it just makes me sad, really sad. Making the clothes fit and morph is great, so much progress and wonderful improvements. At the end of the day, it is not what I fell in love with when I first saw Poser years ago, when I bought Traveler's Morph World CD and loaded all those morphs and made Silly Puddy Vicky. I think I'd rather play with silly puddy vicky, now she was morphable..... not very bendy but morphable......lol. Really, the community is shrinking for a reason. By the time Genisis 6 comes out, I hope someone will try to recapture some of what has been lost. Until then, I will take raw materials and cook great meals, turn beads into jewerly, minerals and mica into makeup, make mandalas to color in 2d software. I am not a thing of beauty, I make things of beauty. I take cheap things and use what skills and creativity I have to make them more than the sum of their parts and create value where there was little value before. Poser, Daz is not working for me at the moment. Until next year,
RitaCeleste
Far be it from me to defend Daz's business practices, BUT this
I'd refuse to buy Vicky and Micheal and 100 other dollies so I could transfer morphs to clothes I created
is factually incorrect. You make clothes for G2F (which is free), and it works for all G2F figures (and generally G2M). You make clothes for Genesis, and it's good for all genesis, same for Genesis 3. And there's fairly decent (free) cross generational support.
Anyone know if the Victoria 7 bundles will go on-sale soon? A reall soon, not a DAZ soon.
i have a new spending mentality, buy if i'll actually use it. haz enough to cover the 'in case i'll need it' lol
and i'm pretty much full time carrara user now. narrows down my pickings.
While it's good to be practical and there's a lot of great Generation 4 characters, one investment worth its weight in gold is GenX2 to transfer that generation onto (at least) Genesis. The bends and creases on Generation 4 aren't up to par with the latest generations. (There are bend-fixer products, here and Rendo btw.) So yes, it's to make money, DAZ is a business, but the figures are an improvement with bending/flexibility. It's fun to note Rendo, also a business, has so much support for Generation 4, and they wouldn't do that unless it was selling well. (Again, great characters!) But you don't see that level of support here, not even remotely.
Whatever you do, I hope you have fun doing it! Will miss you.
Add up the cost of all those bend fixers...and compare to the cost of the transfer utility (GenX2)...
Or, alternately, there is a manual method...
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/24093/transferring-morphs-from-genesis-to-g2m-g2f-and-from-g2m-g2f-to-genesis-now-with-clones-works-on/p1
I agree 100% with you Novica. The GenX application along with DraagonStorm skin converters and the iray skin shaders have allowed me to take the old and new generation 4 characters to a whole new level. I constantly purchase new Gen4 content on Rendo whch still has huge support for that figure.
I feel your pain.. I stopped buying new characters here at daz3d.com for a couple of reasons. But mostly because of the ridiculous increase in prices..And like you said in a year or 2 there will be another complete new set of characters you will need to buy support items for.. no thanks. Airing your complaints about here in the forums does no good. because you'll get attacked for your opinions because others have not reached the level of spending that some of us. or the furom police will remove your post ,.. .This is only my opinion But Daz is kind of like the politicians of the US government they don't seem to listen to the people, they just dangle something new and shiny in front of you hoping you'll buy it.
Maybe that is why I see no reason why daz and the venders do not still create support items for older characters that they once sold. I'm glad auto manufactures do not stop supporting car parts for the cars they sell.
I can see & understand creating the new & updated products to compete in the industry. but lets not forget about the other characters you sold in the past that we long time users spent tons of money on.. especially when its props and poses sets. .. what would makes sense is to make poses that support all generation of characters so the vender will be able to sell these poses for a long time when someone has a huge library of older content they are looking to buy products for. .instead of just catering to one character set of poses.. because once that character generation fads gone they won't sell as many pose sets in the future as if they had created them for all generations of characters past & present.. I have noticed that a few of the venders(1 example) at other 3d web sites have started adopting this philosophy. so those are the venders I have been buying my poses and props from. But on the flip side not buying things here at daz anymore. I have had a heck of a lot more money in my pocket lately for other things I like such as video games, REAL clothes that I can wear my self, that are cheaper that the clothes I buy at daz that I can never wear. . Ask any author or writer of books they will tell you they rather sell a lot a volume of books at a lower price then sell their books at ridiculous price that will only sell a few copies. But that is just my opinion. and I sure my post will be removed by the PC police for my opinion on the Politician remark I made about daz management. c'est la vie
imagine if they came out with a David4? would be hilarious april fool joke
And new people comming in wont have the huge libraries we all have. While there is nothing wrong with continuing with old figures and not buying new ones, technology moves on and failure to move forward will kill your business. I was an Aiko 3 user for 9 long years but as much as I enjoyed using the figure and content the technology that it uses really showed in the way she bends and morphs. It was not until I started working with G2F that I let Aiko 3 go. While I skipped two generations, it was still the advancement in technology that really made me want to switch. So for me at the moment, G2F is my main figure with G3F as a backup but I will buy something I like for either.
And if you are doing a series/comic/graphic novel that has a particular style...there is nothing preventing the continued use of the assets that give you that 'look'.
I'm pretty happy with the M/V4 - Genesis 2 'stretch,' because with key products (like GenX2 and map transfer) you can migrate stuff you like back and forth.
Right now Genesis 2 > Genesis 3 has a little more of a barrier, but there are already ways people have worked on surpassing it, and eventually there will be content available that will make G3 reasonably diverse.
That said, I think there's not a particularly strong need, as a customer, to go with the latest and greatest; I've been pretty happy with both Genesis and Genesis 2 figures and go back and forth. Given most of the skins are sharable without much work and GenX2 to ensure morphs are shared, my decision to use one or the other is often driven simply by what geografts I want to use. I usually lean toward using Genesis 2, all things being equal, but it really doesn't matter a LOT.
Hi Matty Old friend.
A yup! I can understand the bright and shiny and coming out with new characters designs to stay competitive in the industry. But when it comes to character support for Poses and Props that come with poses , those items I would believe do much better in sales if offered for all past generations as well. only because myself, like you Matty, as long time users we have a huge library of content with mixed generations we can use with it. lets be real not as many new users buy into the bright and shiny at first or at all. Do you remember being a new user? Most new users are much more cautious in buying 3d items only because they are not sure if they want to invest the money for all the bright and shiny. so new users usually buy as cheap as they can or look for free items to learn the 3d industry before spending $1000's on content. I know, I was a new user once, I did not jump in all at once it was a growing process. and I can assure you i have way more than thousands invested in 3d now. it took me a long time before i moved into genesis 2. only because i was successful using generation 4. I have pass on a lot of prop items lately only because the supporting poses were offered for genesis 3 only and not for Genesis 2 and generation 4 items as well and were priced at $20 or more. Really! $20 for poses for one set of characters. If it was offered for more generations. I might have at least gave it some consideration of purchase.... Just like you and countless others here, I have been using daz & poser long enough that I have about everything Daz3d.com has to offer for v4 and m4, and genesis 2 and some stuff i have bought is not even offered on this site anymore. So seeing new products come out for those older characters are a big deal for me anyway because I still buy and use those items regularly . I may be wrong here. But if daz is depending only on new users to keep them in business I wish them good luck with that. . I can say this in all honesty as person fully invested in Daz & Poser programs & 3d content. I have had a budget for buying content because I am not a content creator. most of us here aren't content creator.. so as to where i spend my budget does not matter to me. but I'm going to buy what I can use for multi character support not just the new ones.. so I am voice my opinions about it and keep requesting for supporting older content especially poses & props. But it feels like it falls on deaf ears. so I guess my money does not mean a lot here & that makes me very sad. Long time loyalty has no rewards when it comes to daz. and that makes me very sad as well.
I can understand how many people feel some of the current prices are very high, but DAZ does run various sales fairly frequently. I almost never buy at list price, and rarely buy at the 30% off new price either (although the 30% is often higher during sales). I am not sure what you consider to be a "fair" price for digital content, but I recently bought 40 or so items here at just 40 cents each. All of it M4/V4 stuff, and none that I will actually use on those figures, but I will use on Genesis 1-3. You will find it difficult to find those sort of deals at other stores.
Would DAZ even accept stuff for only Generation 4? AntFarm was saying how they were hesitant to accept adorable cute robots (ridiculous! They are really well made and AntFarm's, for heavens sake) so I'm wondering if any vendors have even tried to do V4 only and got shot down?
Would LOVE to see some of those Aiko 3 renders Mattymanx!
And RitaCeleste, the fact that you can make makeup is intriguing. I'd look like a clown if I tried to do that! (wait, that would be an improvement...)
As has been said a billion times, the problem is that the bulk of profit seems to be 'hot white chicks, within a few days of release.'
There really isn't a good solution other than people going for a patronage sort of approach (like make free stuff and hope for donations), something like kickstarter, or some sort of patreon/dev group thing where you put money toward people to encourage them to make stuff you like. Or something.
Expecting, right now, developers to take big risks upon themselves for their livelihood is not really reasonable.
Now, I do wonder if older content should be on sale more aggressively. I've seen a bunch of M4/V4 stuff for prices akin to what I'd expect to pay for a new item (like certain scifi armors/suits). THAT strikes me as a bit weird.
Then again, lots of other older stuff is very cheap, so hey.
Hi Novica, I would bet if a vender created a pose/prop set that offered support poses for all generations that daz has put out over the years, that it would be accceptable to daz.
Totally off topic, Ivy had a link banner to Daz on an EQ forum back in 2005, she's the reason I found assessable 3D art.
I can respect where I think you are coming from, a community like it was when i first started with poser and it was more of a gaming/modding type of atmosphere and less buisness oriented. There are still areas in this community like that. look at the community that got behind Dawn, look at all the poser users still using with possette and V4. Just because DAZ has upped their game with DS and their latest figures, doesn't mean you have to be on the band wagon or left behind. I cringe when I think of how much I have spent on 3D, but I also make money off of it and make lots of my own props and other odds and ends. In addition I use most of the figures out there, V4, M4, M3, V3, genesis 1, 2 and 3. If anything this is probably the best time to be into 3D, with a few addons, you can use all figures clothing and most textures with all figures, it's amazing the options you have now and how much more simplified your workflow can be unlike how it was when V4 was out.
...spot on about the transition from G2 to G3. Clothing transfers and hair work OK however when it comes to skins you are stuck, as the change in mapping makes it extremely difficult to use older skins (even G2) with G3. I wouldn't have even bothered with G3 had it not been for the extreme discounts I received on the basic morphs, Gen4/Genesis fit clones and the Josie 7 character during the sales last month.
Two days ago another important resource that I have been waiting for, an updated Growing Up morphs, was released. Basically all I need now is an updated Skin Builder Pro and Skin Overlay utility for G3 and I'll have enough to keep me busy for a while until the update to GenX is released.
Amusingly, for me one of the big barriers is the lack of Aging for G3 (yet, which is just a matter of time). I find it easier to fake youth than age...
I'm a little curious how well GenX would work for G2 > G3, because I'd save myself a metric arseload in avoiding repurchasing several hundred dollars in stuff.
...the tough part of going younger with female characters is breast reduction. The Breasts Gone morph tends to distort the breast region, particularly the areola, and nipple which can carry through into clothing fits, thus distorting the texture of the short/blouse. The Growing Up morphs Youth Morph minimises this effect.
Yeah the G2 - G3 Gen-X update will be most welcome as then I can transfer Genesis morphs through G2 using Gen-X 2.
Have you seen Odelle? (Link goes to my render on my Art Studio thread.) Over at Rendo, she's a mature woman, excellent materials, and if you go to that link and scroll down, that vendor posted a preview with the next mature character coming up. (Aged Asian, looks really good.) He said he's making a male senior after that one is released (getting a really positive response to Odelle. )
The lack of Carrara and Poser support for new stuff mainly stops me spending
I do use workarounds for props but the newest human figures not much use.
Rendo still has PA's who only do poser products and for them V4 is still the character they depend on finacialy. And some of them have had to drift over to genesis 1/2 to maintain income. You don't see the support here for V4 because it wouldn't sell nearly as well as genesis products. You also might want to take note of the volume of genesis products that are in the "what's hot" vs the volume of v4 products that end up there these days. This time last year rendo had pretty minimal support for the genesis figures but now you see strong sales for even genesis 3 (which can not be used by poser at all).
Actually Daz does listen. But your view point may not be the view point of the majority. Daz frequently does surveys and works off what those surveys tell them. They have all the sales data to look at and can work off what that tells them. And they read the forums and take what they see into consideration. As far as pricing goes the prices for products at Daz and the rest of the brokers are bargain basement much of the time compared to similar products in other long term market places. If Daz were even a quarter as insidious as people want to paint them they would have worked hard to make sure that anything from old figures could not be used on new figures. The opposite was true. The only time that has not been the case is when they have updated to more modern things like the UV layout for Genesis 3.
Wait a minute...y'all are starting to confuse me. What is "Gen X"?
Genesis Generation X2 . A neat product!