Daz Studio Pro BETA - version 4.9.0.44!

135

Comments

  • hphoenixhphoenix Posts: 1,276

    And what is the big deal about using Connect? Its simple, non-intrusive (ok, less intrusive since they removed the encryption)... I just do not get what all the commotion is about. It works! And Smart Content is finally usable. I had such high hopes for it when they released it, but it never went anywhere.  Now its practically all I use, but I can still fall back to the old way for products not supported or from outside vendors.

    Luddites.

     

    JDStrider said:

    IMHO, things change, so "suck it up buttercup" and move on. If you choose to stand still or not to move forward, then you are being left behind, you will be missed! Everything we get from DAZ3D comes from an on-line connection, so I fail to understand why the Connect method is such a big problem. You don't have to sign in so if you have connection challenges, you can simply work off-line. If you are surfing the site from a different machine to make purchases, then use the DIM to download and you will get all of the information in files that you can trasport to your off-line machine.

    The meta data updates can be obtained in the same manner, simply wait until the backlog of updates is complete and perform a mass update to obtain all of the newest information. There are any number of different ways those individual problems can be addressed. It is not DAZ's responsibility to solve anyones individual connection issues nor should it be. That is not their business, they are in the business of creating and selling products through an on-line (Connected) medium called the Internet.

    To the crew at DAZ, keep up the good work and don't let the negative nellies discourage your efforts in improving the product or any of the products features.

     

    Wow.  Express an opinion on how something is being implemented/not-implemented and people take the opportunity to call you names.

    For the record, I do not have a problem with the idea of DAZ Connect.  I think it could be a very good thing, and very helpful to the new users.  What I DO have an issue with is HOW it is being implemented, and HOW they are trying at each step along the way to FORCE existing users to conform to the new way while still claiming you don't HAVE to.

    They told us "Encrypted"!  We complained that this would limit our ability to modify and manually fix content, so they said "Well, you can still use DIM and there are no plans for DAZ Connect only stuff."

    They told us "New installation directory and naming conventions!"  We complained this would limit our ability to find and search outside of Connect, and make re-structuring difficult, so they said "Well, we're updating metadata so you won't have to do that as much."

    They told us "Metadata updates are DAZ Connect only!"  We complained.  Waiting now to see what they'll do in response to that.  We've noted that there are ways to deliver the content via DIM in much the same way with little change to how DIM works.

     

    How is asking that the current idiom for delivery be maintained during the transitional period (while they are still working out the bugs and design issues in Connect) being either a 'nervous nellie' or a 'Luddite'?

     

    What worries US (as power users who have established workflows, and actually do more than download-pose-render) is how the current design for Connect shows how it is geared only toward THEM (the users who don't use external tools, edit files, and modify things to work better or work around faults/bugs.)  DAZ could make some fairly small changes to the Connect design (while keeping its purpose and function) and satisfy BOTH.  But they seem loathe to do it.

     

  • evilded777 said:

    And what is the big deal about using Connect? Its simple, non-intrusive (ok, less intrusive since they removed the encryption)... I just do not get what all the commotion is about. It works! And Smart Content is finally usable. I had such high hopes for it when they released it, but it never went anywhere.  Now its practically all I use, but I can still fall back to the old way for products not supported or from outside vendors.

    Luddites.

     

    ​DAZ decided to remove the encryption?!?!  Pardon me for being behind the times ( away visiting family for Thanksgiving week) but when did that happen?  And more importantly is it a permanent change?

  • Daikatana said:

    evilded777 said:

    And what is the big deal about using Connect? Its simple, non-intrusive (ok, less intrusive since they removed the encryption)... I just do not get what all the commotion is about. It works! And Smart Content is finally usable. I had such high hopes for it when they released it, but it never went anywhere.  Now its practically all I use, but I can still fall back to the old way for products not supported or from outside vendors.

    Luddites.

     

    ​DAZ decided to remove the encryption?!?!  Pardon me for being behind the times ( away visiting family for Thanksgiving week) but when did that happen?  And more importantly is it a permanent change?

    No encryption on items that are also avaialble through DIM or the Product Library - items that are Connect-only will/may still use encryption. This is in the current beta (though we don't have any Connect-only content, of course).

  • hphoenix said:
    They told us "Encrypted"!  We complained that this would limit our ability to modify and manually fix content, so they said "Well, you can still use DIM and there are no plans for DAZ Connect only stuff."

    They told us "New installation directory and naming conventions!"  We complained this would limit our ability to find and search outside of Connect, and make re-structuring difficult, so they said "Well, we're updating metadata so you won't have to do that as much."

    They told us "Metadata updates are DAZ Connect only!"  We complained.  Waiting now to see what they'll do in response to that.  We've noted that there are ways to deliver the content via DIM in much the same way with little change to how DIM works.

     

    How is asking that the current idiom for delivery be maintained during the transitional period (while they are still working out the bugs and design issues in Connect) being either a 'nervous nellie' or a 'Luddite'?

     

    What worries US (as power users who have established workflows, and actually do more than download-pose-render) is how the current design for Connect shows how it is geared only toward THEM (the users who don't use external tools, edit files, and modify things to work better or work around faults/bugs.)  DAZ could make some fairly small changes to the Connect design (while keeping its purpose and function) and satisfy BOTH.  But they seem loathe to do it.

    Older/existing content will not be encrypted - see my above comment.

    Files installed via Connect cannot be seen in the file based views or moved (actually, I think the non-encrypted stuff could be moved but it would confuse the issue with the CMS and with updates) but it is now possible to create, via drag-and-drop, a pointer file in the file-based view which can be moved around freely.

    It's metadata-only updates that won't be in DIM, nott hat the DIM metadaat will be frozen even if the product has a general update.

  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 2,677

    And - to get the metadata updates - all yyou have to do is onnect to the store wih ds-connect. The metadata will automatically download and update. Takes about 15 minutes or so. amounts to a couple hundred KB. You can disconnect (log off) when the update finishes. No need to download any content.

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,116
    hphoenix said:

    And what is the big deal about using Connect? Its simple, non-intrusive (ok, less intrusive since they removed the encryption)... I just do not get what all the commotion is about. It works! And Smart Content is finally usable. I had such high hopes for it when they released it, but it never went anywhere.  Now its practically all I use, but I can still fall back to the old way for products not supported or from outside vendors.

    Luddites.

     

    JDStrider said:

    IMHO, things change, so "suck it up buttercup" and move on. If you choose to stand still or not to move forward, then you are being left behind, you will be missed! Everything we get from DAZ3D comes from an on-line connection, so I fail to understand why the Connect method is such a big problem. You don't have to sign in so if you have connection challenges, you can simply work off-line. If you are surfing the site from a different machine to make purchases, then use the DIM to download and you will get all of the information in files that you can trasport to your off-line machine.

    The meta data updates can be obtained in the same manner, simply wait until the backlog of updates is complete and perform a mass update to obtain all of the newest information. There are any number of different ways those individual problems can be addressed. It is not DAZ's responsibility to solve anyones individual connection issues nor should it be. That is not their business, they are in the business of creating and selling products through an on-line (Connected) medium called the Internet.

    To the crew at DAZ, keep up the good work and don't let the negative nellies discourage your efforts in improving the product or any of the products features.

     

    Wow.  Express an opinion on how something is being implemented/not-implemented and people take the opportunity to call you names.

    For the record, I do not have a problem with the idea of DAZ Connect.  I think it could be a very good thing, and very helpful to the new users.  What I DO have an issue with is HOW it is being implemented, and HOW they are trying at each step along the way to FORCE existing users to conform to the new way while still claiming you don't HAVE to.

    They told us "Encrypted"!  We complained that this would limit our ability to modify and manually fix content, so they said "Well, you can still use DIM and there are no plans for DAZ Connect only stuff."

    They told us "New installation directory and naming conventions!"  We complained this would limit our ability to find and search outside of Connect, and make re-structuring difficult, so they said "Well, we're updating metadata so you won't have to do that as much."

    They told us "Metadata updates are DAZ Connect only!"  We complained.  Waiting now to see what they'll do in response to that.  We've noted that there are ways to deliver the content via DIM in much the same way with little change to how DIM works.

     

    How is asking that the current idiom for delivery be maintained during the transitional period (while they are still working out the bugs and design issues in Connect) being either a 'nervous nellie' or a 'Luddite'?

     

    What worries US (as power users who have established workflows, and actually do more than download-pose-render) is how the current design for Connect shows how it is geared only toward THEM (the users who don't use external tools, edit files, and modify things to work better or work around faults/bugs.)  DAZ could make some fairly small changes to the Connect design (while keeping its purpose and function) and satisfy BOTH.  But they seem loathe to do it.

     

    Um... I don't see anyone asking that things be "maintained during this transition". I see people screaming that they don't want change.

    Frankly, the most troubling part for me is the new directory structure which breaks a lot of things... that really ought to have been better thought out; and I was one of the first people to bring that up.

    But since I'm not a power user and I don't do anything more than download-pose-render, I guess my opinion isn't as relevant as yours.

    That's sarcasm, in case you missed it. I figure you must be humor impaired because you took my Luddites remark far too seriously.

    And it seems you missed the irony of your own post: complaining about "name calling" and then proceeding to suggest that you were part of some elite group that is clearly better than the rest of us peons.

    This post is made with little rancor and tongue slightly in cheek with the intended aim of putting a needle in something that clearly needs to have a little air let out of it.

    Sometimes I am not a gentleman.

     

     

  • Please keep comments addressed to the topic, not other members.

  • takezo_3001takezo_3001 Posts: 567
    edited December 2015
    hphoenix said:

    And what is the big deal about using Connect? Its simple, non-intrusive (ok, less intrusive since they removed the encryption)... I just do not get what all the commotion is about. It works! And Smart Content is finally usable. I had such high hopes for it when they released it, but it never went anywhere.  Now its practically all I use, but I can still fall back to the old way for products not supported or from outside vendors.

    Luddites.

    "Constructive discussion, both critical and sympathetic, pertaining to these objectives is encouraged. Anything that is degrading or otherwise harmful to such an environment is strictly prohibited."

     

    JDStrider said:

    IMHO, things change, so "suck it up buttercup" and move on. If you choose to stand still or not to move forward, then you are being left behind, you will be missed! 

    "Constructive discussion, both critical and sympathetic, pertaining to these objectives is encouraged. Anything that is degrading or otherwise harmful to such an environment is strictly prohibited."

    • Criticism should be directed towards the subject or topic at hand, rather than an individual.  Posts which make blanket, unreasoned criticisms - of other members, of Daz 3D, of products or applications, or of merchants and their products - may be removed in a general effort to control negativity.

    To the crew at DAZ, keep up the good work and don't let the negative nellies discourage your efforts in improving the product or any of the products features.

     

    Wow.  Express an opinion on how something is being implemented/not-implemented and people take the opportunity to call you names.

    For the record, I do not have a problem with the idea of DAZ Connect.  I think it could be a very good thing, and very helpful to the new users.  What I DO have an issue with is HOW it is being implemented, and HOW they are trying at each step along the way to FORCE existing users to conform to the new way while still claiming you don't HAVE to.

    They told us "Encrypted"!  We complained that this would limit our ability to modify and manually fix content, so they said "Well, you can still use DIM and there are no plans for DAZ Connect only stuff."

    They told us "New installation directory and naming conventions!"  We complained this would limit our ability to find and search outside of Connect, and make re-structuring difficult, so they said "Well, we're updating metadata so you won't have to do that as much."

    They told us "Metadata updates are DAZ Connect only!"  We complained.  Waiting now to see what they'll do in response to that.  We've noted that there are ways to deliver the content via DIM in much the same way with little change to how DIM works.

     

    How is asking that the current idiom for delivery be maintained during the transitional period (while they are still working out the bugs and design issues in Connect) being either a 'nervous nellie' or a 'Luddite'?

     

    What worries US (as power users who have established workflows, and actually do more than download-pose-render) is how the current design for Connect shows how it is geared only toward THEM (the users who don't use external tools, edit files, and modify things to work better or work around faults/bugs.)  DAZ could make some fairly small changes to the Connect design (while keeping its purpose and function) and satisfy BOTH.  But they seem loathe to do it.

     

    Um... I don't see anyone asking that things be "maintained during this transition". I see people screaming that they don't want change.

    Frankly, the most troubling part for me is the new directory structure which breaks a lot of things... that really ought to have been better thought out; and I was one of the first people to bring that up.

    But since I'm not a power user and I don't do anything more than download-pose-render, I guess my opinion isn't as relevant as yours.

    That's sarcasm, in case you missed it. I figure you must be humor impaired because you took my Luddites remark far too seriously.

    And it seems you missed the irony of your own post: complaining about "name calling" and then proceeding to suggest that you were part of some elite group that is clearly better than the rest of us peons.

    This post is made with little rancor and tongue slightly in cheek with the intended aim of putting a needle in something that clearly needs to have a little air let out of it.

    Sometimes I am not a gentleman.

    • Criticism should be directed towards the subject or topic at hand, rather than an individual.  Posts which make blanket, unreasoned criticisms - of other members, of Daz 3D, of products or applications, or of merchants and their products - may be removed in a general effort to control negativity.
    • Posts that are obviously designed to provoke, shock or anger will be removed and action taken as needed.  This includes posts attempting to provoke a “site” or “app” war, the excessive use of strong language, or any content designed to create a negative emotional response.
    • Attacks towards any member, moderator, admin, or Daz Staff will not be tolerated.
    •  

    It's ok, at least you're one of the favored few who can get away with argumentative and easily interpreted insults meant to cause an angry response without having your entire post removed...Furthermore since others have voiced their concerns without breaking the rules they earned the right to express their opinions, because they did so without stooping to thinly veiled insults and verbal abuse!....

    Ya know what's worst than actually breaking these rules is when it is accepted to let some slide over others, as this encourages favoritism, which can cultivate a much more hostile environment than one riddled with negative comments, as it validates certain member's use of breaking rules/negativity over others which eventually undermines and defeats, the entire  purpose of having these rules to begin with!

    Delete this if you must, but I already saved it for my own records, and I am only speaking the truth as I see it.

    Post edited by takezo_3001 on
  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,116

    Yeah, perhaps I crossed a line.

    I honestly apologize; to hphoinex for taking that pot shot and to anyone else I offended.

    I was exasperated and trying to be humorous initially. I should know better, it doesn't translate well in this medium. 

    That remark about power users, however, was a little over the top. And since I was quoted, one would naturally assume that the remark was aimed at me. I took offense and didn't respond well.

    I tried to make it clear that I understand some of the issues and that they also effect me. What I do not get is the vehemence with which people reject these concepts, because that is what I see: rejection. And very few people are championing the good parts of the changes, only lambasting the ill-concieved ones.

     

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited December 2015
    namffuak said:

    And - to get the metadata updates - all yyou have to do is onnect to the store wih ds-connect. The metadata will automatically download and update. Takes about 15 minutes or so. amounts to a couple hundred KB. You can disconnect (log off) when the update finishes. No need to download any content.

    If it work so, it is  wellcome.  please check these, and if it is wrong, correct it.smiley

    1.   User can use DAZ connect  for installing meta-data only too , (there should be option, to install meta-data only ) .

    2No need to use DAZ connect to get up-dated (or bug reomoved)  contents about products which have installed by DIM.

    3.  User  can use DIM to up-date these contents , or Download ZIP manually.

    4.  But to get  new meta-data about products which have not been up-dated , User must need to use DAZ connect. 

    5.  When there is no up-date about contents,   DAZ do not offer  new meta-data for DIM. (at least they plan so)

    6. It is same about products which  have offered without meta-data,(only add  product name) for DIM package. (V4,  or A3 etc)

    7.  But,  DAZ promise to offer clean reliable meta-data about all producs by DAZ connect. when DS 4.9 become product build.

     

    You may feel strange why I shout and cry then be joker ,  (and I understand I confirmed , I never join here, but DAZ deleted it, then  I join again to all things more clear)

    My main purpose is all things more clear, what will change, and what will not change.

    then it needs to be discribed as Official DAZ announcement.   You native may can easy understand, or ask here and there, directly or through forum.  then may say,  thank you DAZ mans. 

    but most of users (non native)  need to see clear,  What daz actually will change. 

    I know Company  like to discribe and announce only for good things,  and which they hope to be.

    About these good thing, it is really easy to find them.

    But  not discribe well about things, which may cause problem or limit user.  or they have not finished yet.

    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
  • takezo_3001takezo_3001 Posts: 567
    edited December 2015

    Yeah, perhaps I crossed a line.

    I honestly apologize; to hphoinex for taking that pot shot and to anyone else I offended.

    I was exasperated and trying to be humorous initially. I should know better, it doesn't translate well in this medium. 

    That remark about power users, however, was a little over the top. And since I was quoted, one would naturally assume that the remark was aimed at me. I took offense and didn't respond well.

    I tried to make it clear that I understand some of the issues and that they also effect me. What I do not get is the vehemence with which people reject these concepts, because that is what I see: rejection. And very few people are championing the good parts of the changes, only lambasting the ill-concieved ones.

     

    I have gained an incredible amount of respect for you right now, I always try to remember to never take anything said online personally, as being offended is a choice, especially when someone intends to offend you, as the best way to nullify it's effects is by not giving those the satisfaction of being offended! wink

    As for my part, my irritation is not towards DAZ's online integration, so much as the fact that I and others like me are not guaranteed a stable choice in ISPs, I for one have three ISPs in my small city, yet I am still mandated in having Comcast as a viable choice, (Unless I get DSL at 768kbps for $60, $10 less than my current 75, or downgraded to 1.5 mbp) and unlike those in the north east/west, the south eastern US has a 300gb data cap with a 75-90mbps connection speed, which is by a leaked omission by an employee, not needed as it's only a way of testing a new involuntary micro transaction, furthermore, I and everyone else I know in my area bought the monthly service as "unlimited"....

    So yeah, if this was the Netherlands/South Korea/Japan, there would be no issue, so tying a vital operating component into an unstable third party utility, is somewhat of a concern for long time users who have already invested a lot with this program.

    EDIT I should've noted that most of my online concerns are laid to rest about daz for the most part but not for comcast,  and I was simply relaying my earlier concerns, I should've been more clear.

    Post edited by takezo_3001 on
  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 2,677

    Takezo_3001 - I envy your connectivity. My only access from home is dial-up, with a 210 minute (3.5 hour) maximum connect time - if the line is stable enough to stay up that long. As such, my main system doesn't have internet connectivity; I run a separte box for that. And I drag a laptop to Starbucks to do my downloads on their wi-fi. I can't even view the store pages frrom home most days - I end up with the browser timing out showing a page of black boxes with no way to find out what they are.

    But I've no issues with DS-Connect. Yet. I don't see using it to obtain content, but I can see using it for metadata. I'm experimenting with the 'Export Metadata' process Rob mentions up in the release notes. It seems a bit clunky, but it looks workable (I'll know more by the end of the weekend). And I can see not rebuilding DIM packages just for metadata updates (How many times do you want to download a 600 MB package just because the metadata changed?).

    The jury's still out, but I'm willing to wait and see.

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited December 2015

    My request about meta-data was to offer each product meta-data divided from contents for DIM too.

    I leep these image. (though  my request was deleted for another reason)

    It  is not unique idea at all.  because before some user had offered  their hand made meta-data as zip  in share CG,about DAZ product which daz did not offer meta-data. of course formal way. 

    Then,,,  offer  meta-data as one  package  with each contents, was  not user request.   DAZ  decided so then , DAZ had  offered contents with meta-data as one package zip.  then we needed to download contents and meta-data as one package.

    Actually I do not know, why daz can not do it.  And if  DAZ can offer meta-data only, for daz connect, I think  they can offer them as individual data for DIM and manuall download too.  Zip each meta-data  file.(dsx dsa, image) by batch,,  then locate them on current DIM contents server,  is so  difficult?  of course may need to add option filter  as same as current filter (for user who  may need not up-date meta-data at all)

    But,,  if I can install meta-data only  by DAZ connect ,with option to see clear about each product,  and If I  can choose which meta-data I install , l use daz connect to get new meta-data. (I may not request ,to offer meta-data by DIM . though I worry about user who can not use DAZ connect)

    After all,  How to offer  meta-data is different problem, to enclypt contents . (and actually DAZ need not to use DAZ connect to offer them)

    newmetadata.PNG
    597 x 624 - 57K
    productpage.PNG
    882 x 482 - 58K
    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
  • DAZ_JonDAZ_Jon Posts: 561

    1.   User can use DAZ connect  for installing meta-data only too , (there should be option, to install meta-data only ) .

    This is the behavior of Daz Connect if you log in and don't install anything through it. It will just auto-sync your product list / meta data for everything you have purchased at time of sync.

    2No need to use DAZ connect to get up-dated (or bug reomoved)  contents about products which have installed by DIM.

    3.  User  can use DIM to up-date these contents , or Download ZIP manually.

    For current content and any content in the future which is available through DIM, that is correct. For content in the future that is Daz Connect only, you have to install through the Daz Connect mechanisms. However, there are offline zip package options for that if you don't want to download and install through the app. Those packages are going to be downloadable through the Product Library on the store.

    4.  But to get  new meta-data about products which have not been up-dated , User must need to use DAZ connect. 

    5.  When there is no up-date about contents,   DAZ do not offer  new meta-data for DIM. (at least they plan so)

    6. It is same about products which  have offered without meta-data,(only add  product name) for DIM package. (V4,  or A3 etc)

    Again this is correct. To trigger downloads of hundreds of megs or hundreds of gigs at a time for just meta-data updates is not feasable. Given splitting out one part of the package naturally led to the question of "why just the meta-data part and not the entire contents of the package to be able to be updated on a per-file basis to reduce the bandwidth cost and time of updates as well?" So, even outside of meta-data, if something like an object gets a rigging fix, instead of having to download 600MB package to get it, you get it in, say, a 1MB file or whatever the size of that the change is.

    7.  But,  DAZ promise to offer clean reliable meta-data about all producs by DAZ connect. when DS 4.9 become product build.

    This is the one thing I can't say is correct. We are working to clean up the meta-data on all of our products that need it. It is a monumental task to ensure our entire product catalog of 20,000+ products are all cleaned up, and is one that has to be done by someone who really knows the products. Daz Studio 4.9 will almost certainly release before it is all fixed. We are committed to correcting / improving the meta-data and are updating it as fast as we can, but this is one of those cases where "perfection is the enemy of progress."

  • lxlx Posts: 2,882
    DAZ_Jon said:

    For current content and any content in the future which is available through DIM, that is correct. For content in the future that is Daz Connect only, you have to install through the Daz Connect mechanisms. However, there are offline zip package options for that if you don't want to download and install through the app. Those packages are going to be downloadable through the Product Library on the store.

    That says two different things to me. "you have to install through Daz Connect" but "there are offline zip package options."

    Will we be able to download the encrypted Connect-only files as normal zips from the Product Library? And if so can we via DIM? I'm okay with the encryption to a point, but not being able to control the files anymore is a massive downgrade.

  • DAZ_JonDAZ_Jon Posts: 561

    My request about meta-data was to offer each product meta-data divided from contents for DIM too.

    I leep these image. (though  my request was deleted for another reason)

    It  is not unique idea at all.  because before some user had offered  their hand made meta-data as zip  in share CG,about DAZ product which daz did not offer meta-data. of course formal way. 

    Then,,,  offer  meta-data as one  package  with each contents, was  not user request.   DAZ  decided so then , DAZ had  offered contents with meta-data as one package zip.  then we needed to download contents and meta-data as one package.

    Actually I do not know, why daz can not do it.  And if  DAZ can offer meta-data only, for daz connect, I think  they can offer them as individual data for DIM and manuall download too.  Zip each meta-data  file.(dsx dsa, image) by batch,,  then locate them on current DIM contents server,  is so  difficult?  of course may need to add option filter  as same as current filter (for user who  may need not up-date meta-data at all)

    But,,  if I can install meta-data only  by DAZ connect ,with option to see clear about each product,  and If I  can choose which meta-data I install , l use daz connect to get new meta-data. (I may not request ,to offer meta-data by DIM . though I worry about user who can not use DAZ connect)

    After all,  How to offer  meta-data is different problem, to enclypt contents . (and actually DAZ need not to use DAZ connect to offer them)

    The concept of just a seperate package for meta-data, without updating any existing packages, would work poorly and often incorrectly with how the current system works (for instance, you download two packages to install, the meta-data package finishes first and installs, then the package with content finishes and installs and still has meta data and it overrides it, returning you to the older meta-data), and for the non-power users or newer users, or users that want to bulk install stuff, it would be troublesome to bad and end up causing more problems than it would fix. I'm not going to get into the how something like this would potentially be implemented as it was discussed briefly and we went down a quick list of all the things that would need to change, but basically, its significantly more complicated to do it in a way that wouldn't end up making the experience more difficult and confusing and would be a significant effort to change the current DIM system (client software and web services up through the store). This is something that has to work for both the power users who know what they are doing, but also new users who have next to no idea what they are doing, without making the experience worse for anyone. Thanks for the suggestion on it, and the idea of separate meta-data type functionality in DIM is something I'll request to be considered if we do an overhaul of the current DIM system. 

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526

    7.  But,  DAZ promise to offer clean reliable meta-data about all producs by DAZ connect. when DS 4.9 become product build.

    This is the one thing I can't say is correct. We are working to clean up the meta-data on all of our products that need it. It is a monumental task to ensure our entire product catalog of 20,000+ products are all cleaned up, and is one that has to be done by someone who really knows the products. Daz Studio 4.9 will almost certainly release before it is all fixed. We are committed to correcting / improving the meta-data and are updating it as fast as we can, but this is one of those cases where "perfection is the enemy of progress."

    So that,,   I simply ask then at current how many meta-data- of product can be downloaded  from DAZ connect, which have not offered by DIM?    because  

    "there is a dedicated librarian with dedicasted systems, and the internal processes are being (or have already been) updated to improve things in future. By the list I saw something on the order of 3,500 items have been updated over the last four weeks or so with more being worked on"

     

    then How many products meta-data  have not been offered still?  actually  I do not hope, (though I emhasize intentionally) real perfect,

    ( no miss category etc)   but  I strongly push DAZ to offer meta-data about products  which have not offered at all , long time.

     

    then I do not know why DAZ can not show time table or plan clear?  

    why keep thrid and four generation figure  items without meta-data (so long time) still?

     now I serch items from your shop "people and wealable"  , then filtered by "victoria 4 to Hiro 4"(4th generation figure only)

     

    (Actually I find,, and disapointed now, why there is no filter about AIko3 , and these thrid generation figure,, animore,,,

    but may repuest it another chance)

    then the sum of product which filttered is 2919.   OK?  if you have clear plan to offer meta-data (and DAZ really think so )

    at least you can say "we  have finished  this work, about this category , already"

    then you can say "next month we correct about other generation figure," etc.

     

    I really often heared daz best effort,, "We are committed to correcting / improving the meta-data and are updating it as fast as we can"

    then why so long time some items are leave it off without meta-data, even though you can easy check them.?

  • DAZ_JonDAZ_Jon Posts: 561
    lx said:
    DAZ_Jon said:

    For current content and any content in the future which is available through DIM, that is correct. For content in the future that is Daz Connect only, you have to install through the Daz Connect mechanisms. However, there are offline zip package options for that if you don't want to download and install through the app. Those packages are going to be downloadable through the Product Library on the store.

    That says two different things to me. "you have to install through Daz Connect" but "there are offline zip package options."

    Will we be able to download the encrypted Connect-only files as normal zips from the Product Library? And if so can we via DIM? I'm okay with the encryption to a point, but not being able to control the files anymore is a massive downgrade.

    You'll be able to download what we're calling an "Offline Package" to install Daz Connect only content. DIM isn't able to support it.

    The steps to use it is basically you download the package file (this is a file is the same for everyone) and the offline auth (this is a user specific generated file) from your Product Library and put it in a specific directory for Studio (it will be documented where to put it). When you start Studio up, it automatically installs the package for you. So, the Daz Connect processes basically goes "oh, this product is right here, I'll just use this as my source to install from instead of the online service." Once it does that, it is installed like all other Daz Connect files.

    If you want to catergorize with files in the filesystem from that point, there is the new generated file type that you can have Studio make (I think the extension is .DJL but I could be wrong.. its in the change log) that you can use to categorize how you want on disk in a way that won't break functionality. You have full control of what is going on if you want it. You control where Daz Connect installs to through your Studio preferences, and you can control your categorization through the database methods or file system methods. 

  • takezo_3001takezo_3001 Posts: 567
    edited December 2015
    namffuak said:

    Takezo_3001 - I envy your connectivity. My only access from home is dial-up, with a 210 minute (3.5 hour) maximum connect time - if the line is stable enough to stay up that long. As such, my main system doesn't have internet connectivity; I run a separte box for that. And I drag a laptop to Starbucks to do my downloads on their wi-fi. I can't even view the store pages frrom home most days - I end up with the browser timing out showing a page of black boxes with no way to find out what they are.

    But I've no issues with DS-Connect. Yet. I don't see using it to obtain content, but I can see using it for metadata. I'm experimenting with the 'Export Metadata' process Rob mentions up in the release notes. It seems a bit clunky, but it looks workable (I'll know more by the end of the weekend). And I can see not rebuilding DIM packages just for metadata updates (How many times do you want to download a 600 MB package just because the metadata changed?).

    The jury's still out, but I'm willing to wait and see.

    I feel for you, as well as those poor souls out in the county with satellite, yeah I did the same for years, (No internet for 7, 8? years) having to go down to the public library to stock up with my Jurassic laptop (That's dead BTW, involuntary Laptop slaughter) And I was quite heartened by our last conversation as the system is not too harsh as I previously thought, though I'm still not happy about the offline file system of near impossible to find textures/Obj/etc..As it's tied into sku numbers rather than actual human names not spat out by automatons.

    (Though I do admit, it's a lot better than the cluster-schmuck that was the tri-library assets folders that I finally was able to consolidate under a single directory!)

    I was relaying why I held my perspective of my problems with a program's integration with a third party, and how it pertained towards this last post I made on the subject of the furor over the new system that some were questioning about..I should've been more clear about that in my last post, I'll fix it..But yeah, some of my own fears were put to rest...

    "For current content and any content in the future which is available through DIM, that is correct. For content in the future that is Daz Connect only, you have to install through the Daz Connect mechanisms. However, there are offline zip package options for that if you don't want to download and

     

     Thanks Daz_Jon! You made my month! I feel much safer now with my investment!

    Post edited by takezo_3001 on
  • lxlx Posts: 2,882
    DAZ_Jon said:
    lx said:
    DAZ_Jon said:

    For current content and any content in the future which is available through DIM, that is correct. For content in the future that is Daz Connect only, you have to install through the Daz Connect mechanisms. However, there are offline zip package options for that if you don't want to download and install through the app. Those packages are going to be downloadable through the Product Library on the store.

    That says two different things to me. "you have to install through Daz Connect" but "there are offline zip package options."

    Will we be able to download the encrypted Connect-only files as normal zips from the Product Library? And if so can we via DIM? I'm okay with the encryption to a point, but not being able to control the files anymore is a massive downgrade.

    You'll be able to download what we're calling an "Offline Package" to install Daz Connect only content. DIM isn't able to support it.

    The steps to use it is basically you download the package file (this is a file is the same for everyone) and the offline auth (this is a user specific generated file) from your Product Library and put it in a specific directory for Studio (it will be documented where to put it). When you start Studio up, it automatically installs the package for you. So, the Daz Connect processes basically goes "oh, this product is right here, I'll just use this as my source to install from instead of the online service." Once it does that, it is installed like all other Daz Connect files.

    If you want to catergorize with files in the filesystem from that point, there is the new generated file type that you can have Studio make (I think the extension is .DJL but I could be wrong.. its in the change log) that you can use to categorize how you want on disk in a way that won't break functionality. You have full control of what is going on if you want it. You control where Daz Connect installs to through your Studio preferences, and you can control your categorization through the database methods or file system methods. 

    Basically all I want is the ability to download the things I buy and keep them offline for myself so I can install and reinstall whenever I need to without hoping I'll be able to download at the time. It sounds like there will be ways to do that even if it's a bit of workaround but that's fine.

  • DAZ_JonDAZ_Jon Posts: 561

    7.  But,  DAZ promise to offer clean reliable meta-data about all producs by DAZ connect. when DS 4.9 become product build.

    This is the one thing I can't say is correct. We are working to clean up the meta-data on all of our products that need it. It is a monumental task to ensure our entire product catalog of 20,000+ products are all cleaned up, and is one that has to be done by someone who really knows the products. Daz Studio 4.9 will almost certainly release before it is all fixed. We are committed to correcting / improving the meta-data and are updating it as fast as we can, but this is one of those cases where "perfection is the enemy of progress."

    So that,,   I simply ask then at current how many meta-data- of product can be downloaded  from DAZ connect, which have not offered by DIM?    because  

    "there is a dedicated librarian with dedicasted systems, and the internal processes are being (or have already been) updated to improve things in future. By the list I saw something on the order of 3,500 items have been updated over the last four weeks or so with more being worked on"

     

    then How many products meta-data  have not been offered still?  actually  I do not hope, (though I emhasize intentionally) real perfect,

    ( no miss category etc)   but  I strongly push DAZ to offer meta-data about products  which have not offered at all , long time.

     

    then I do not know why DAZ can not show time table or plan clear?  

    why keep thrid and four generation figure  items without meta-data (so long time) still?

     now I serch items from your shop "people and wealable"  , then filtered by "victoria 4 to Hiro 4"(4th generation figure only)

     

    (Actually I find,, and disapointed now, why there is no filter about AIko3 , and these thrid generation figure,, animore,,,

    but may repuest it another chance)

    then the sum of product which filttered is 2919.   OK?  if you have clear plan to offer meta-data (and DAZ really think so )

    at least you can say "we  have finished  this work, about this category , already"

    then you can say "next month we correct about other generation figure," etc.

     

    I really often heared daz best effort,, "We are committed to correcting / improving the meta-data and are updating it as fast as we can"

    then why so long time some items are leave it off without meta-data, even though you can easy check them.?

    Because we're a company with limited resources. We didn't have a good way to push just meta-data updates out previously. We do now with Daz Connect. Now that we have a good method to deliver it, we're devoting the resources to clean up the meta-data.

    We do have a priority for cleaning up the products and are moving through our catalog systematically. We haven't announced what that is or spoken much about it because it is prone to change as we see "Oh, this thing needs to be done first because this is going to impact more customers or is causing a lot of confusion, so jump that to the head of the queue." I imagine that is happening less and less now as the beta stabalizes, but will continue to happen as we get feedback. We're basically trying to do it in order of "what are the products that are contributing to the biggest issues" first.

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526

    About off line package,, Now it seems better what I felt before.

    but not just discribe here (in one of topic, one reply for someone),  please it clear discribe,  and show it, user can  easy find,

    about these things too.

     

    without serching around in forum. at least when daz release ds 4.9.  

    (but certainly not feel relief untilll   "will be able to"  change "must be able to at current".  (It is neither an irony , even sarcasm)

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited December 2015

    My suggestion is,,  when fill up record of database,, we should not make priority about each record by popular or amout of seles.

    or importance of problem etc,,, because if you do so,,   some item record never be filied forever .  everytime you should find new problem

    about meta-data,,  when daz release new items,, I think.. 

    I feel DAZ  need just making rule and just do by order adamantly, which category DAZ  start, then finish them, then go next category.

    it is OK by alphabet, or the year the item are published,, new to old, or old to new..  the important thing,  we make clear order,

    to fill all record. not by human feeling. (it is same , when database order each record,, , it just order by alphabet or imput keywords,,

    not order items by user feeling (I like A more than B, then use C seldom etc) 

    of course it is important , to cleaning up the products, then sone one devote it.  but at same time, there should be another  group

    which check meta-data then fnish them,  just by decided group order (alphabet,, generation,, etc),

    If daz have decided so and actually have started it already,,, I apreciate it.

    =========================

    And,, if daz could not it (fill all record for all products which daz now selling) by company resouce,,

    actually you could use and ask User more effective.

    But without show the "order",  which DAZ decide, to correct and add meta-data,,  it never work well.

     If I can decide,, I must first had shown  plan (order) for user  ,then ask them to send meta-data report about the " XXXX category" or "only ZYX"  items about meta-data . with adding new bug tracker..

    then User can easy check them,  which item have  meta-data problem  at current,, and  reported already or not, (someitem  is wrong, or someitem is not offered still) and report about the category only,,,, and solve or maybe add corrected meta-data file by  Collective intelligence.  then DAZ change about  new category,,or "U V W" , next month,,

    maybe By this time,, we had already all meta-data about products which have released, I fee...

    (though it seems too late, and  can not confirm it should work well,,)

    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
  • ... though I'm still not happy about the offline file system of near impossible to find textures/Obj/etc..As it's tied into sku numbers rather than actual human names not spat out by automatons.

    In the change log theer are entries stating that they have added an option to the right-click menu in various containers so that you can open an OS window on the product folder in \Data\Cloud, to get to the textures etc. That was a later build than the current beta.

  • lxlx Posts: 2,882
    ... though I'm still not happy about the offline file system of near impossible to find textures/Obj/etc..As it's tied into sku numbers rather than actual human names not spat out by automatons.

    In the change log theer are entries stating that they have added an option to the right-click menu in various containers so that you can open an OS window on the product folder in \Data\Cloud, to get to the textures etc. That was a later build than the current beta.

    Well that's good (if a little convoluted but I assume it's much simpler than redoing the entire code layout to have real names) thanks for pointing that out.

  • Please keep comments addressed to the topic, not other members.

    After reading how my comments were taken, I can see that I have also offened without intention. My goal was to "invoke thought about acceptance of change", not to offend.

    For that, I sincerely apologize to all forum members.

    My comments from this point forward will be limited to the matter at hand as Richard has suggested.

     

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 28,449

    ..waitaminute... "\Data\Cloud\". 

    What does that mean?

  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 2,677
    kyoto kid said:

    ..waitaminute... "\Data\Cloud\". 

    What does that mean?

    That was the original DS-Connect download directory - I don't know if they plan on changing it at this point, although it does sound like it no longer has to be in the first mapped studio format content directory.

  • I just read through the Change log up to an including build 4.9.0.54. It appears that many issues are being resolved, so excellent news!

    My question is does anyone (at DAZ) know when these changes will be made public?

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 28,449
    namffuak said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ..waitaminute... "\Data\Cloud\". 

    What does that mean?

    That was the original DS-Connect download directory - I don't know if they plan on changing it at this point, although it does sound like it no longer has to be in the first mapped studio format content directory.

    ...well, when I see the term "cloud" in any path, to me it says the data's kept on a server somewhre and not resident on my own system meaning I need a net connection while working which takes extra processing resources.

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