Skin color and tones - understanding
cosmo71
Posts: 3,609
What I do not understand is:
The Natasha Elite skin looks nearly equal in color and tone during the pre render process (scene building for example) as after rendering. Sure it has more details and look better after rendering but color and tone are nearly the same. And as I know the Elite Skin Shader uses also Subsurfaces
If I use the new skins for G3F this is not the case, the skin color and tone during the pre render process is more white and pale and after rendering more red and colored. Means the skin totally look different from what I have during the pre render process.
Would be better in my view if the skin nearly looks equal before and after rendering related to color and tone. It is a bit disturbing in my view.
Can someone explain me why?
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I don't believe the Elite textures used SSS.
If your system can handle it, the Aux viewport in IPR mode will give a better approximation of the rendered result that the standard OpenGL viewport.
Different shaders preview differently than others. it's one of those things you learn to work with. the preview window is just an OpenGL preview. For me it has nothing to do with the render. In fact i often have a blonde hair in the preview, but it's a redhead in the render :) So it's really not a biggie.
Also some other tools like my fav 3DS Max, has a great preview window, but most people's computer can't handle it. I have to disable the realistic render preview since it cripples my system. The daz preview window runs really well even on intel graphics cards. That is a big part of it.
You have subsurfaces and velvets if using the elite skin, I am relatively sure that this is the case but I can have a look in the next hours, right now I am fixing the skin of my g3f character
They did indeed have subsurface settings. Load up Elite Marie :) You will see a variety of subsurface settings as well as translucency. This is not new stuff.
And there were a few other shaders for legacy daz that had subsurface as well. PWSurface I think was one.
you are correct.
thanks you :)
here is an image that shows what I mean:
btw. the explanations in the image are showing why I am so angry about this rendertime stuff. Hours just for getting a skin fixed.
OK i didn't know you meant spot render. sorry. I interpreted prerender as preview and not spot render.
If you mean the rendertime stuff what made my a bit angry, yes I meant spotrender. If you trying to fix texturs and the software (if shader causes this or not does not matter, the software renders not the shader) needs a lot of time for a spot render, how many hours are needed just to get a texture fixed in color and tone if the pre render looks so different from the rendered version?
Two things that come together. Longer rendertimes and much difference between pre render and rendered result. And I am speaking just about tone and color, that details are different is clear and logical. But color and tone? that should be approximately equal.
but that is not really comfortable if you try to get things fixed and for me it is strange. I guess if I get the desired result after rendering the figure during the scene building process will look green or blue or something like this and who will work with green or blue figures? Not me. (my opinion)
Color and tone should be approximately equal pre render and rendered version. That details are different because of bump maps, normal maps, dispalcement maps, reflection and such stuff is clear and logical but tone and color?
You have three different looks. Pre render with lights on, pre render with lights off and the rendered result, for me that is a bit disturbing.
It sounds like what you want to do is turn off or greatly reduce the SSS and specularity.
the resultif doing this is the same, pre render and rendered version looks much different on tone and color. Have done this.
Can you post your surface settings?
here is the image with half SSS strength and brighter SSS color than before
Unless you are using a linear workflow, there is no way to come close.
The 'correct' skin is the rendered/spot render result. No, the prerender is an approximation...the render is with everything applied, all the lighting information (shadows, occlusion, specular, colors, etc), the algorithms to calculate the behavior of the 'skin' (other surfaces, too) and everything else.
If you want skin that matches the 'prerender' you will need to do a lot of adjusting...and it would look very different than the prerender does now. But that level of fine adjustments will not work in a nonlinear environment. For best results, a calibrated monitor and exact gamma correction would be neeeded, but turning gamma on and setting it to 2.2 should get 'close enough'. And yes, that all will take a lot of time...just like it did to set up the settings that you are not liking. That is one of the drawbacks of buying premade texture packages...they are set up how someone else thinks they look best. To change them, you need to basically start over...
how shalI post a complete surface setting? okay, will try it.
Select only the Torso surface. And yes, setting Gamma on and 2.2 may be what you need.
Would be cool to get a setting list that can be exported as text file, possible? I think not. How many screenshots shall I take to get the complete surface settings?
SSS is more or less broken in the uber/HSS shaders. The AoA shaders are pretty much the shaders that had working SSS, which is probably why it takes longer to calcuate when rendering. So the Gen4 didn't really have what genesis had in terms of shader advances.
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That all is maybe true but the question is, why does the natasha elite skin I use looks nearly equal in color and tone in pre render and rendered result? And this texture for example not?
No...it's not broken in the SHADERS...just most of the presets (and yes, that's more than just semantics). The presets not being set properly doesn't mean the actual implementation in the shader itself is 'broken'.
I think I quit and take it as it is :( grrrrrr
as written, it is logical that a rendered result is different from the pre render version but skin tone and color as written should be approximately equal . A bit difference is okay but that is more than a bit of difference. And as you can see in the first image. If the lights are on the difference is much bigger than with lights off. what also is a mysterium. Should it not be the opposite?
okay, enough for now, will do some scene building right now for relaxation :) that is needed now :) I guess there is no way to get this fixed pre render / render tone color nearly equal look, so. Was just a question if this is possible in some way but it seems that it is not.
The strange thing is, if I use the Rebecca texture the pre render looks nearly equal in tone and color pre render compared to render
Sorry, you're incorrect. It's in the implementation. That's why the AoA shaders were used in lieu of HSS/Uber because the SSS did not work reliably. The AoA shaders display SSS correctly every time.
I think I have found the reason :) will let you know if it worked.
So, I hate these new shader. You can do what you want, the brightness of the figures skin is much more brighter in pre render work than after rendering. And if you want that the figures skin is brighter after rendering the figures skin in pre render work glows like a nuclear fuel rod and that when the lights are off. If the lights are on you get blind. That sucks. The new figrues are good relating to bending and morphs but the skins and shaders really sucks so I turn back to v4.2 and the old elite human surface shaders.
The AoA shader sucks