All of those 7 characters... kinda of confusing....pointless too
bernierb_cb0dc1880b
Posts: 19
I dont mind the new characters and i welcomed them but they way they are named is kind of misleading. There was not Bethany or Eva as far as i know before which may lead people to say "Hey what did i miss?"
Plus the fact that Victoria is supposed to be the flagsship character and having several new figure with the number seven is probably very detrimental for her sales. Why don't they do it as before like? Bethany for G3F or something like that. I dont get where Daz is going with this... Its like they dont like their main character anymore...or is it because the characters shapes cannot be transfered to g3F? if that is the case then g3f has some serious limitations if you ask me.
peace
Thread title edited to replace misleading with confusing.
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Comments
G3F does have some serious limitations and not sure why they say she's more ready for other industries/software. her rigging breaks far worse than G2F in other applications regardless of whether you use FBX or DAE.
However I do understand the numbering convention of the new characters. it represents what generation they are compatible with, and Daz is still clinging to old generation numbers and not the Genesis Generation number. They are compatible with Genesis 3, or Generation 7. Bigger numbers are better...Bethany is certainly G3F, but all G3F characaters are considered "7". Bethany is not 4 generations behind Vickie. And some would argue Eva is better than Vickie, so Eva3 would be confusing compared to Vickie 7.
If i was a noob, i would not buy Eva 3, or Beth 3. I would get Vickie 7. But all of them Being 7, makes them equal. And for the most part they are (cept V7 will prolly get more support in the long run than those two will., if history repeats itself)
Except for Victoria and Michael (since they were present at each generation), the number in the character name has always indicated the generation, not the iteration of that figure. David started as D3, there was only one version of Stephanie and Aiko before SP3 and A3, the first version of Lee, Gia, Olympia or Gianni was 6....
I don't like the current thend of having so many character base figures. But I suspect it is a money maker and here to stay.
I found though, wtih gen 2, that I didn't always use the different bases. I do use some of them. Like V6, Olympia, Darius, and Lee. But others I haven't touched like Gia. I'm not going to rebuy them if they come in gen7 since I haven't used their gen6 counterparts sufficiently to justify buying the upgrade.
I've actually started warming up to certain shapes as difficult to get just right with morphs. For example, there's a subtle quality to Bethany 7 that I've been failing to capture in G2. If there was a Bethany 6 I might try picking it up.
Although I plan on sticking with the 4s and 6s, I have to say I LOVE Bethany 7. A female character that has the figure of a real, not starved then siliconed, woman! Not quite enough to make me jump to the 7s, but pretty close.
Anyone else notice how it sounds like we're talking cylons here?
I'm with you! I have spent so much money on all the G2 stuff that I will probably get stucked here for a long time. I like Beth doh... I also would instnatly buy a Bethany 6 it it was out.
By the way... are G3 textures fitting on G2s?
Nope.
Technically, people have succes with a process to transfer the textures but it requires Blender (or maybe Zbrush, 3DCoat etc). It seems tedious sadly.
That's what I suspected, as well. To be honest, the whole rushed introduction of Genesis 3 and the rapid-fire switch of the whole site to pushing predomnantly G3F and iRay seems like DAZ has forgotten what happens when you alienate the buying base. If she was THAT much better it would be one thing, but... well, it just isn't. There are so many other things that needed fixing with the DAZ Studio infrastructure before they launched yet another series of figures that ONLY works in Studio. Don't get me wrong, I think the G3s are nice looking, but I see no need to invest in them when I can use every V4 and Genesis texture ever made on G2F and after THREE base figure releases, there are still less than 20 G3F compatible skins on DAZ. Talk about putting the cart before the horse!
I think part of the problem is that, with the Genesis technology, there isn't actually such a thing as a "base figure" any more. There's just Genesis, G2F/G2M and G3F, plus all the characters based off of them. It's just that all these characters have been released with special Pro Packs, Bundles etc — none of that has anything to do with the base-figure-ness of the actual character. Another part of the problem, of course, is that DAZ is still marketing all these hordes of characters as if they were all still "base figures". Something needs a re-think, methinks...
I'm seriously objecting to the new base, again.
I just got two characters; I liked Bethany, so decided to get her, but one of the bundled character looked terrible to me, so I didn't bother. Two characters and the freckles for just less than the starter pack; I considered it still pricey though; I'm expecting that the cost of the base packs will put me off buying them, not really because I can't afford them but because of the synical nature of the marketting.
I don't see how the new character justifies a new base, other than an excuse to charge more. Someone please explain to me if I am wrong, and how I am wrong if that is the case.
The thinnest hair of an excuse that they seem to be clinging to is that having a new UV map somehow makes it a new figure. Of course, there have been several figures that haven't had a new UV set, and (excluding the base G3F UV) I don't think there's been a new UV set that has had more than one additional texture set made for it since Lee. I know Ninive had one (Lady of the Lake), but other than that I dont think ANY of the other last half dozen figures have had a single one. Clearly there aren't any PAs who want to limit themselves to a tiny niche percentage of the total market by using anything other than the most popular UVs, so I have to think the above is the only reason that they're still carrying on with this nonsense.
The base figures for the 4th Generation, other than V4/M4/K4, were morphs of those three rather than new meshes, and did not have new UVs.
There is only the one base mesh for the G3 female as there will be for the male. All others are character (which is why they are in the character folder) morphs.
Trying to recapture Bethany as a G2F figure has really made that apparent. You can dial spin figures that do SIMILAR things, but base models have rather unique qualities to them, and there's a lot to be said for blending in models.
I'm actually working on a heavyset character with what started as a Ninive 6 head, so you can go in different interesting directions with base figures.
I very much agree with both of these comments. The DAZ original "numbered" characters are exceptionally high quality morphs and skin textures, and those included textures are optimized for that morph with a custom UV. Comparable to, and an advancement on the elite characters. In nearly every case they have a nuance that you could never get with morph dials alone.
The UV thing catches a lot of people wrong, but a UV set doesn't need to be supported. You get the best result when an optimized UV is paired with a morph its intended for. The times when a special texture is released like Lady of the Lake or Asterion for Minotaur are the rare times when they will use the specialized UV because they really are designed and intended for that character's morph, just as the included skin was.
Back to the main point, I see the numbered characters bringing unique nuance, like individual actors approaching the same role differently. We don't just look for types anymore, like leading man or muscle, diva and ingenue, and with their best figures like Bethany or Olympia or Gianni or Monique, I see DAZ trying at least to stretch toward that and I hope it continues. That's my take on it.
I accidentally double posted, but I'll add just another thing. I don't know, but I think that some people don't always realize that there are other things involved in the numbered characters besides the skin and the morph. Take a look at the file list for Bethany: http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/22172/file_list
They typically include morph-specific adjustments for the standard expressions and to the rig. So whether that justifies the price vs. a PA character set that might take adavantage of a portion of DAZ's morph fixes (when a specific character shape is "required") and costs half as much is up for discussion, but it is not exactly apples to apples.
I keep coming back here after the release of V7 hoping that they have added some support for V7 for autofit of the V4 clothes/hair. But from what I am reading, are they not going to do that with G3? I don't care so much about transferring textures, but I own a lot of V4 and G1 stuff that I would like to have fit onto the V7 model. I just got used to G2 and Studio again...and here they are with G3 less than 6 months into me buying into G2. I bought V7 and a few items b/c she was so dang pretty in that promo. She does render nice, but I can't see myself buying much of anything else for G3. I didn't buy any of the morphs or anything. I did buy a pose convertor, but I think that might be about it. Is it just that they tried to rush the release or is DAZ really not going to offer the clone shape of V4 and G1 for the G3 to where we can use the content on G3? I think this was the issue I had with G1 when they first switched...there wasn't much stuff and it wasn't the most compatible with what I already owned. It's also why I abandoned Dawn and went back to V4.
I do like the G3 characters, but right now they don't seem worth it even if you are brand new b/c I don't see a lot of content available and it doesn't seem to be the mostly backwards compatible. Please let me know if I am missing something. I haven't found much information on the subject. (I am so glad they put a search back in the forum, though!)
I would imagine that, like with Genesis 1 and 2, PA's will provide autofit capabilities for earlier generations.
You can auto fit to G2F, save, and then auto fit the G2F fit to G3F. :) It works just as well for now. :)
you don't need Eva or Bethany, with face and body morphs for G3F you can create better characters for G3F.
Well there are people arguing they can't craft good results with morphs, but I agree with you. I skipped Bethany and Eva, but am very much leveraging the morph kits. And also been making a few morphs of my own as needed. When there is something I don't have a commerical morph for yet, I can typically craft it myself pretty quick. As long as its not a face morph, I stills suck at those :(
I found it very hard to dial in a nose like Bethany's in G2, and suspect it'd also be hard in G3. Frankly, if I was in the market for G3, I'd be tempted to buy her just for that (plus the general 'clothes and such').
which nose morphs you have?
http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-2-female-head-morphs
The one thing the morphs don't have that would really help is a 'tilt,' to turn the nose down toward the lip.
wouldn't that be "nose tip height"?
It could be that those format-standards are not up to speed with the latest tech in Genesis 3?
Zombie: It isn't, exactly. Nose TILT would turn the nostrils and septum and everything doward (or upward).
You can ALMOST do it with tip height, nostril height, and other factors... but it doesn't look quite the same (as I've discovered).
Or that G3F went out the door before she was fully baked. I imagine you'll be seeing re-tweaks on her for months, just like we did on G2F, Genesis and V4. Not that it's surprising, as testing under lab conditions rarely covers every thing that can happen in the real world.
Ah. All right. my mistake. :)