What can we expect?
cosmo71
Posts: 3,609
What can we expect? That in one month Genesis 4 Female comes out? And in two month genesis 5 Female and Victoria 8? I really don`t know what I should bought and with which figure I should start and create a new Dixie und if enough clothes and stuff and poses will be created for each figure.
Post edited by cosmo71 on
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In general DAZ seems to runb about two years per generation - give or take a bit (or a lot for V4).
I think that is called sarcasm Richard, LOL.
Definately not looking forward to all the additional genesis 3 female addon figures like we had with GF2.
I'm surprised at all the grumbling. No one is forced to buy new content. G2F still renders really well. Genesis and V4 as well, if a bit more care required.
Same as the grumbing about a competent, FREE software package with a FREE unbiased render engine. That no one had to upgrade to / buy / use.
Seriously.
So far gen 3 female has been sort of a dud for me. although I bought her, I've been somewhat meh about the texture packs and expansions. Okay, but am using gen 2 more because of the flexibility. Yeah I know it is early days but I would expect to be wowed and I'm not.
fastbike1, there are some valid reasons to grumble, it's not just because people are trying to be cranky or whiners. First, let me say that it's great that new figures with better capabilities are being made available, obviously this is a good thing for anybody who needs or wants the new features, and you are correct that nobody is forced to buy them. And probably nobody likes to hear the grumbling, regardless of how valid it may or may not be, so I try not to do it often. :-)
However, it is true that the older figures are effectively stalled with limited wardrobes. The figures I use will never have any new clothing or accessories made for them, so what I have now is all I'll ever be able to get. I'm done. They will never benefit even a tiny bit from the huge supply of imaginative and expert content creators that are working daily around the globe creating new things year after year. It is as if though all real clothing designers stopped making clothes in your size 10 years ago, so that for the rest of your life you were forced to shop at garage sales, goodwill, antique stores, learn to sew your own, or pay a tailor a huge sum for every single T-shirt and sock you want (well, sort, the analogy doesn't quite hold but you get the idea). That is unfortunate and somewhat discouraging, although it's the reality I have to accept.
That said, that's not completely true, because I have hardly purchased every clothing item ever made for my figures, so there is still the potential for new exiting purchases, but they are just a potential; there are budgets to consider that prevent snapping up the entire wardrobe while it's still available and products are gradually being pulled from the market that I will likely miss because I waited to long. And in the opposite direction, using outdated figures means that a lot of content that was once unafordable has been made free by generous content creaters (you know who you are, thank you all very much for that), so I have benefitted in many ways even as other opportunities are lost, although somewhat at random for product choices. And in the unlikely event that anybody wins the lottery or happens to already be filthy rich you could doubtless have many of these content creator experts hired to creat new stuff until the end of time. One can also sometimes use autofit, and sometimes not. Also if you had money leaking out your ears you could concievably purchase every clothing item you wanted along with a complete set of the base figure, every morph, etc. but even then every figure does not have every morph and every clothing item duplicated, so even if you owned EVERYTHING you still couldn't mix and match a large number of clothing items and morphs into the same single figure, so the increased quality and versatility of each new figure does come with a very real cost of decreased versatility in a different area.
Cosmo71, unless you can predict the future better than I, if you do not wish to continually upgrade figures I would suggest that you base your choice of which figure(s) to adopt based on the existing, known clothing sets available to them, so you know for certain if you will be reasonably happy or not, rather than guessing and potentially being wrong. Of course that is hard to do given the volume and volitility of both products and places to purchase them, but it's the best advice I can offer.
That's just the way life is, though. Us grumpy people must accept it. Or win the lottery. Or learn to make our own clothing. But we aren't all completely grumpy without just cause. :-)
Well, with the possible exception of stuff that was in the planning stages, I'm willing to assume that most PA's who had something in the works for Genesis 2 will continue to work on and eventually release those items.
So while G2 content will greatly slow, I don't think it will fully dry up for at least 2-3 months, and even then we may still get the occasional character or outfit from someone who (for reasons of their own) doesn't want to switch to G3. Renderosity is still releasing stuff for V4, after all.
I can't speak for other stores, but DAZ is pretty slow at pulling things (and individual PA's have their own pace.) After all, there are still products for Victoria 1 in the store, though they require some digging to find and are generally PC items.
This is not to say that those who are grumpy can't be grumpy. I do get it. (I was not a fan of some of the changes between Genesis and Genesis 2, and I'm *still* kinda grumpy about them, even if I fell in love with Genesis 3's expressiveness almost immediately.) I'm just trying to offer a little bit of hope for those who are, understandably, grumpy.
The only thing I'm grumpy about is the lack of Genesis 3 Female characters. For heaven's sake, where are they?
It's an entirely new and different UV, the people who have released characters already are the ones that are skilled enough to make a skin textures from scratch.. all the others are waiting for merchant resource bases to be created. (That's not to say all people who use premade bases are not skilled or somehow lesser, it takes a very specific skill set to be able to piece together a skin from scratch, there are a lot of people who are really great at morphing unique characters and painting cool makeup but not so good at the base skin, they still make awesome characters.)
And yeah, I wouldn't worry about stuff being pulled from the Daz store any time soon, it takes a REALLY long time, if ever, especially for Daz-Os. The other stores pull products or they go off into clearance pretty fast comparatively.
There are still many items made for even older generation figures. During the last 2 years we've seen new Genesis releases alongside Genesis 2 and Generation 4 is still going as strong as ever owing to a large volume of Poser users. I won't deny there has been a slump in Genesis content, but then it was never widely suppoted outside of the Daz store anyway. This is partly due to the androgynous nature of Genesis making it more difficult to develop for; an issue which does not occur with Genesis 2 because of the gender split.
I think it's better if you don't see it as a choice. It's not a case of sticking to one figure, but using the tools at your disposal to create your scene. For me, sometimes that will be K4, other times it'll be Genesis. In fact, one of the reasons I bought both versions of Skyler (Genesis 2 and Genesis 3) is so that I would have options. I can mix in V7 morphs for Genesis 3, mix in V6 morphs on Genesis 2, and enjoy the wardrobes of both figures without compromising quality.
Genesis 2 female is one of the few newer generation figures which has actually seen decent support outside of the Daz store, and I doubt that support will cease as long as there are buyers. It just gives the rest of us some options as to what figures we want to use. The beauty is that it costs nothing to try Genesis 3 out for yourself - she's free! So just buy the content you're comfortable with, or even autofit older Genesis 2 clothes. They fit like a dream for the most part.
My experience seems to confirm that staying a generation behind is worth the wait. When a new generation is released, the content for the previous one starts to pop up in Flash Sales, etc. Sometimes up to 80% discount. yesterday I bought Olympia 6 at 85% discount. I had been happy with V4 until I was seduced by G2F but G2F had already been available for 18 months before I started buying her characters and clothing in the sales. With PA morph packs such as the Zev0 products, G2F is very versatile and will be fine for me for a long time to come. I still use Genesis One and M4 for my male characters.
The main worry for me is the suspicion that DAZ Studio will become locked in to NVidia technology. As a Mac owner, I will miss out on all of that and I am not going to be forced into a return to PC/Microsoft, even if I could afford that route (which I can't).
I have a PC with an nvidia card but for some reason it never uses it, it always goes straight to cpu, even on scenes without any texture maps at all. No clue.. I still find Iray fast than 3delight for most scenes, not a ton, but a bit.. so I would'nt let that stop you from playing with Iray, marble. (and you'll enjoy Olympia, she's awesome)
Genesis 3 seems to be pretty popular right out of that gate, but I can say from experience that G2 is much easier to make stuff for so I doubt she'll stop having stuff made for her soon.
I've seen it stated several times that Iray compares well for speed with 3Delight but this just is not my experience. I've described my set up procedure in various threads here and, for a typical scene that I make, Iray using CPU takes several hours (literally) while 3Delight is done and dusted in 20 minutes. In fact I find the older Luxrender with Reality 2.5 to be at least as quick as Iray and that has the advantage of happily rendering away in the background (or over the network on my Linux box) while I get busy creating the next scene. Actually, I have one of the few iMacs (late 2012 model) with an Nvidia (2GB) card but Iray causes pixellated artefacts all over my display (not limited to the DAZ Studio screens) so I am very wary of enabling GPU. This is logged with Tech Support but I have yet to receive any kind of response from them. It seems to me that Mac and NVidia/Iray don't play well together, hence my regrets that DAZ seems to be bonding with them so tightly.
I like to see characters with real world figures instead of the usual glamour model types. I've yet to put Olympia in a scene but I'm looking forward to that. One of my favourite characters is Joanie HD - an more mature, every-day kinda woman. :)
I like G3/V7. It's an evolutionary improvement in my eyes as the model poses and bends a bit better and has MUCH better facial expressions. I have purchased a small amount of the content made for G3 female and I plan to purchase more eventually. I say eventually because of three things.
1) G3/V7 does not have a few necessary items like fitting and adjustment "helpers" made for her yet (things like Fit Control and conversion utilities for wardrobe items)
2) I am waiting for G3/M7 to be released so I can see how that figure works and if it's the same level of evolutionary improvement. ( totally unnecessary but just call it a personal quibble)
3). I'm still working on getting a handle on Iray and planning the bulk of my spending on this hobby is being put towards what I think are base necessities in that regard ( shaders lighting etc so that I can use the bulk of my product library with Iray).
Evolution of any technology happens and 3D art as well as traditional art mediums are as much of a technology as anything else. There have also been evolutionary advantages in traditional art mediums over the years. Think water miscible oil paints or digital SLR cameras. It's just what happens. We control our adoption of new and evolutionary tech based on our own needs and timetables.
I had the same Imac as yourself with the nvidia card. I sold it and and built a hackintosh with 2 nivida 780 gpu and twice the memory. I still miss my imac, but hey you got to do what you got to do. And while I did have it cuda never worked great in OSX but it worked in bootcamp. It worked better in bootcamp becasue the drivers were better and becuase I was able to control the fan and speed of the GPU with a utilty from evga.
Nick
did you use a flashed card or one right out of the box?
I haven't got the hang of quoting yet in this new forum. And I see you have the same typo-devil word that bugs me : because.
I did look at the Hackintosh option but I'm a bit partial to my iMac still as it was a retirement gift. Besides the second hand value must be pretty low by now. I also looked at an external PCIe but at $500 (GBP 350) that's far too expensive, especially since you then have to buy the GPU card! And for what? Just to be able to use Iray? I have Reality which can produce some very realistic images and the new version promises to be very quick (10x the present speed and that is CPU). I just hope they don't commit to the rest of the Nvidia stuff - like the physics engine - to the exclusion of more open solutions.
My expierence with Iray is slowness compared to 3delight. The benefit though, is that you usually get a better render with less light tweaking out of Iray, saving time.
That said, I'm not buying iray only content, shaders, clothing, scenes or figures. So I may indeed be one figure behind this time- until it comes to M7. Where all bets are off.
I honestly didn't see a lot of value outside of getting more skins from the extra figures released after v6. I tend not to use characters as they are but usually crib skins for other shapes. I am still waiting for the awesome skins that look great in 3delight as which occured when V6 was released. So far, I see stuff optimized for Iray and which look only okay in 3dlelight to me. As 3delight user, NOT an Iray user, that's just been my experience. Everyone's milage may vary.
+1 Some people just feel the need to punch a gift horse in the face. :)
It's best to just ignore the grumblings. Which is what I should have done just now, but DAZ Studio is awesome, I'd easily pay a couple hundred dollars for it, its well worth it, and yet it is FREE. Amazing! and each new generation of figures offers better functionality than the previous. Always look forward.
have you checked the advanced options in render settings? Although i have newish gtx, the default was cpu only. I found this after my first iray/3delight comparison showed iray to be slow.
fwiw, it also seems that you want to check the gpu option and deslect the cpu. My feeling is that involving the cpu is still a bit slower.
One truth about Iray is that it really wants a newish nvidia card with a lot of CUDA cores. In my limited reading and personal experience, this is the main reason folks have iray slower than 3delight. I have a gtx780 in my machine for gaming. That card has 2304 CUDA Cores when almost everything else but a Titan have under 1500 CUDA cores. 750, 600 series, and 500 series have under 1000. So if your nvidia card is older than say 18 mo or you bought a low/ mid range card, this is where you are.
As a long time gamer, i am used to upgrading a video card to play a new game. Yes I do grumble when that happens
I've personally always thought the arguement that "nobody is forcing you to buy new content" to be severely lacking in thought. Nobody forced us to drive cars instead of riding horses. Innovation is it's own indirect force. It's the same arguement every time, with the same defenses. Nothing new is being said here.
Sorry, I'm not getting the connotation for "severly lacking in thought" and "nobody forced us to drive cars" together with "Nobody foced us to drive cars". Those seem to be the same thought/point.
My core point was that no one had lost choices. What is yours?
The horse and car comparison is showing the silliness in saying that nobody is losing out in anything. You don't lose anything for still riding a horse everywhere and can still ride it everywhere. Look at the amish! Nobody can say with a straight face that they are even comparible, though.
New things replace old things and the world continues with the cutting edge. If you enjoy this hobby you're forced to evolve with it, or to stop in time with what you have. "Force" isn't always a gun-to-your-head.
Yes, you have the choice to stop and keep using what you have, and no I'm not saying innovation is bad. Saying nobody is forced to do anything is naive.
Agree
As far as shape goes, you do realize that there are morph sets to make pretty much any shape you need?
I thought about getting Olympia at the great discount, but it's hard to justify when I can come close with the avaliable morphs myself.
I have looked at the Joanie HD set quite a few times, looks well done, but unless I have a commission where the client will pay for it, I can't see ever having a need for that kind of character in my projects.
Agree, Clothes and Hair are no Problems so far but Characters / Morphs could be more.
MY experience so far with this generation is favorable as my old Bruno morphs I made for Genesis 01 and then remade for Genesis 2 F and M came over to the 3 generation of Genesis fine with a nice surprise, all the fix morphs I made to compensate for bad shoulder stuff was no longer needed (but allot of extra work on the bone rigging in the hands, esp the thumbs, as they liked to go inside the hand when the fist slider was used! LOL ). I like how it bends and moves allot better too. As for content.. I usually buy bare minimum esp for the females since their is an over abundance of that stuff - plus auto fit allows for many clothing, hair and jewelry options without spending hard earned cash on new similar stuff unless it's really really special. I already have ONE really good caucasion skin for her "EJ Tatijana and Boho Jewels" and that's enough, great options and jewelry included.... can't beat that. I'll wait for some other skins to come along, a really good African, Asian, Islander and perhaps a fantasy skin. Not into buying to just buy any longer considering I have almost zero time to play like I used to...