V4 UVs for G3F?

135

Comments

  • dizzy88dizzy88 Posts: 49
    edited July 2015

    Did either of you cut extra edge-loops to account for the changed boundaries, or were you able to work with the existing topology by simply reassigning materials? I wa thinking the former would be required, by the descriptions above.

    I didn't. Basically it works by sampling the colors on the source mesh, then applying them to the existing UVs of the target mesh. So you end up with texture maps for G3F UVs that use the colors from the source figure, regardless of what the UVs for the source look like. The topology and UVs can be completely different, as long as the source and target are about the same shape.

    I used G2F with V4 maps as the source and then dialed in the G2F clone on G3F. I did it with her eyes mostly closed and mouth partly open, and also made some manual adjustments (face, fingers, toes) to line things up better. Also, as I mentioned above, I made some edits to the fingernail UVs to get the "underneath the nails" texture to transfer properly.

    The nice thing is that once the meshes are set up, transferring additional maps basically just means 1) load the maps on G2F, and 2) hit the transfer button. Once for each G3F map, of course. I guess this is the cleanest way to do it until someone (Blacksmith3D?) creates a texture converter.

    Post edited by dizzy88 on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 54,158
    edited December 1969

    barbult said:
    What does "bake" mean in this context?

    It means producing an image that fits one set of UVs from an image that fits another - that is what the map Transfer tool in DS does, though there are reasons for it to be unworkable in this case.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 54,158
    edited December 1969

    Did either of you cut extra edge-loops to account for the changed boundaries, or were you able to work with the existing topology by simply reassigning materials? I wa thinking the former would be required, by the descriptions above.

    I didn't. Basically it works by sampling the colors on the source mesh, then applying them to the existing UVs of the target mesh. So you end up with texture maps for G3F UVs that use the colors from the source figure, regardless of what the UVs for the source look like. The topology and UVs can be completely different, as long as the source and target are about the same shape.

    I used G2F with V4 maps as the source and then dialed in the G2F clone on G3F. I did it with her eyes mostly closed and mouth partly open, and also made some manual adjustments (face, fingers, toes) to line things up better. Also, as I mentioned above, I made some edits to the fingernail UVs to get the "underneath the nails" texture to transfer properly.

    The nice thing is that once the meshes are set up, transferring additional maps basically just means 1) load the maps on G2F, and 2) hit the transfer button. Once for each G3F map, of course. I guess this is the cleanest way to do it until someone (Blacksmith3D?) creates a texture converter.

    Ah, I see - I thought you were creating a mesh with both the G3F and G2F mappings - by adding extra geometry and hand remapping as needed - then baking from one to the other.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,986
    edited December 1969

    barbult said:
    What does "bake" mean in this context?

    It means producing an image that fits one set of UVs from an image that fits another - that is what the map Transfer tool in DS does, though there are reasons for it to be unworkable in this case.

    Pardon but where is this "Map Transfer Tool"? ty.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 11,997
    edited December 1969

    barbult said:
    What does "bake" mean in this context?

    It means producing an image that fits one set of UVs from an image that fits another - that is what the map Transfer tool in DS does, though there are reasons for it to be unworkable in this case.Thank you, Richard.

  • j cadej cade Posts: 1,542
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    Kamion99 said:
    Here's the same method, but using blender. some tiny things still to tweak. Now that I have my proof of concept I am going to work on refining the method.

    It actually sounds like it might be easier in blender, I can at least bake multiple maps at once. For this I did all the diffuse together than all the, bump then spec, but If I set up the materials better I might be able to do them all at once.

    Which version of Blender?

    And if it does work well in Blender, it may just be able to be sem-automated.

    Most recent version of blender (2.74) The main thing was fixing the clone to be a closer fit, but once that was done it was pretty plug and play.

    Did either of you cut extra edge-loops to account for the changed boundaries, or were you able to work with the existing topology by simply reassigning materials? I wa thinking the former would be required, by the descriptions above.

    No edge loops here either. The baking is purely by proximity so it doesn't really care about the edge loops at all

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Did either of you cut extra edge-loops to account for the changed boundaries, or were you able to work with the existing topology by simply reassigning materials? I wa thinking the former would be required, by the descriptions above.

    I didn't. Basically it works by sampling the colors on the source mesh, then applying them to the existing UVs of the target mesh. So you end up with texture maps for G3F UVs that use the colors from the source figure, regardless of what the UVs for the source look like. The topology and UVs can be completely different, as long as the source and target are about the same shape.

    I used G2F with V4 maps as the source and then dialed in the G2F clone on G3F. I did it with her eyes mostly closed and mouth partly open, and also made some manual adjustments (face, fingers, toes) to line things up better. Also, as I mentioned above, I made some edits to the fingernail UVs to get the "underneath the nails" texture to transfer properly.

    The nice thing is that once the meshes are set up, transferring additional maps basically just means 1) load the maps on G2F, and 2) hit the transfer button. Once for each G3F map, of course. I guess this is the cleanest way to do it until someone (Blacksmith3D?) creates a texture converter.

    Basically, it's the same as using the V4/G2 maps as the source files and hand painting them with a 3D paint program...minus the time spent doing the painting by hand...

    I think that the mouth internals and eye textures could/should be skipped and the G3F ones used. The eyes, at least the iris and sclera are easy enough to do by hand. And the mouth maps on G3F are a lot better than any of the previous generations.

    The nails...that's a hard call. I'm not sure that darrick.yee's is the best way, but it is a workable one.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Kamion99 said:
    mjc1016 said:
    Kamion99 said:
    Here's the same method, but using blender. some tiny things still to tweak. Now that I have my proof of concept I am going to work on refining the method.

    It actually sounds like it might be easier in blender, I can at least bake multiple maps at once. For this I did all the diffuse together than all the, bump then spec, but If I set up the materials better I might be able to do them all at once.

    Which version of Blender?

    And if it does work well in Blender, it may just be able to be sem-automated.

    Most recent version of blender (2.74) The main thing was fixing the clone to be a closer fit, but once that was done it was pretty plug and play.

    Did either of you cut extra edge-loops to account for the changed boundaries, or were you able to work with the existing topology by simply reassigning materials? I wa thinking the former would be required, by the descriptions above.

    No edge loops here either. The baking is purely by proximity so it doesn't really care about the edge loops at all

    I guess getting the clone closer is the key.

    Because baking sure beats doing it by painting...although painting doesn't need the exact clone.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    Can anybody write a step-by-step tutorial for map transfer? Maya or Blender, I'd be happy to learn from any.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,986
    edited December 1969

    Kattey said:
    Can anybody write a step-by-step tutorial for map transfer? Maya or Blender, I'd be happy to learn from any.

    Well, this is my first attempt at making a derivative uv set ... walk through project ... one ends up with some V4 fingernails for G3.
    The idea of course would be to do as much of the work [eventually] as possible and save out a combo uv set for one's self.
    I have since got the toe nails done and have started on the legs and while the process may look daunting it's not so bad, pretty good way to spend time waiting for renders to finish, etc.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/57640/P15/#853225

    I use Hexagon because that's the only one I know well enough to show this amount of work in.
    If you can "morph" Genesis 3 and/or make a quick goofy uv set and test if that will "take" in D/S, then whichever modeling program one can use should be fine.


    One "trick" if you will that I have found can work to enable another modeler to morph for D/S is to use all 3 programs.
    From D/S "send to Hexagon", export out .obj, import it into the next modeler, morph, export it out, import that back into Hexagon [has to be arriving at the same size it left as] ... delete the first figure and IF necessary "rename" the imported .obj to the exact same as that which was sent over from D/S in the first place. Do not touch the mats, etc. [for morphing], and have ready/selected in D/S the figure for the morph, and send the morphed figure over the bridge from Hexie to D/S and make the morph. As I do not have anything that can do uv maps for me without exporting out changed .obj files [like 3D Coat - edu does] I suspect a similar pattern may work if need be for uv sets. The stopper is though that one does NOT throw it back over the bridge to D/S from Hexie [or whatever], just export out an .obj, size does not matter, one is after the uv set.

  • dizzy88dizzy88 Posts: 49
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    I think that the mouth internals and eye textures could/should be skipped and the G3F ones used. The eyes, at least the iris and sclera are easy enough to do by hand. And the mouth maps on G3F are a lot better than any of the previous generations.

    The nails...that's a hard call. I'm not sure that darrick.yee's is the best way, but it is a workable one.

    Yes, that's exactly my thinking - mouth and eyes are totally unnecessary, just use the G3F or V7 ones. For the nails, the only reason I moved the UVs around was because G2F's nails are part of the skin. So if you just take them as-is, the nail texture gets transferred to G3F's fingers (the flesh under the nails), which looks weird. You can sort of see this in one of my renders on the last page.

    So instead, I repaired the UVs to transfer the "fleshy" texture from V4 and used G3F's default nails, by pasting them into the arms/legs maps using Gimp. Not totally necessary, but it's the little things...

  • dizzy88dizzy88 Posts: 49
    edited December 1969

    Kattey said:
    Can anybody write a step-by-step tutorial for map transfer? Maya or Blender, I'd be happy to learn from any.

    I can do one for Maya in a bit, if that will help.

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 17,301
    edited December 1969

    barbult said:
    What does "bake" mean in this context?

    It means producing an image that fits one set of UVs from an image that fits another - that is what the map Transfer tool in DS does, though there are reasons for it to be unworkable in this case.

    Pardon but where is this "Map Transfer Tool"? ty.

    Surfaces pane options menu.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,986
    edited December 1969

    barbult said:
    What does "bake" mean in this context?

    It means producing an image that fits one set of UVs from an image that fits another - that is what the map Transfer tool in DS does, though there are reasons for it to be unworkable in this case.

    Pardon but where is this "Map Transfer Tool"? ty.

    Surfaces pane options menu.

    ty - never thought of looking there for some reason, was looking under Edit and all that.

  • SadKitty_CarraraSadKitty_Carrara Posts: 21,391
    edited December 1969

    I notice meshlab has some filters that may do this too
    but not figured out how yet
    reading the fun manual may help :red:

  • HanabiHanabi Posts: 362

    If I could get a tutorial for the Blender baking (that is specifically written for a beginner in the program) I would be delighted.

  • RenpatsuRenpatsu Posts: 828

    This probably works in 3D-Coat as well ... have to see on the weekend perhaps. This would definitely ease the transition to G3F quite a bit, especially for my story characters.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    Renpatsu said:

    This probably works in 3D-Coat as well ... have to see on the weekend perhaps. This would definitely ease the transition to G3F quite a bit, especially for my story characters.

    If nothing else, you could 'hand paint' them in 3DCoat...but, yeah it should be possible.

  • ModernWizardModernWizard Posts: 816

    If I could get a tutorial for the Blender baking (that is specifically written for a beginner in the program) I would be delighted.

    I second the request for a baking tutorial via Blender. I have done nothing with the program before, but, if it can provide a halfway decent map transfer from G2F to G3F, I would love to hear about it.

     

    --MW

  • NadinoNadino Posts: 258

    There just isn't a way around learning to use Blender.

    I've already gone through 3 interations of my Bake tutorial and it's driving me crazy the amount of pages dedicated to explaining the basics. The whole Baking process and set up itself takes only about 20 minutes.

    The fingersnail and toenail areas are not perfect and will need to be cleaned up. I've only done the actual skin and not the mouth or eye parts. So I don't see this as a solution for most users, especially those that are not comfortable with Blender already. But probably more useful to those that create their own skins.

  • scathascatha Posts: 756

    I think that with Snowsultan's seamguides for G3F it is entirely possible to create skins from scratch, the difficulty will be in making them Iray compatible so you do not needlessly prolong your render times. I think his seamguides are 8192x4096 format, if not I have seen them at that size over at sharecg.

     

    What we could really use is good Iray skinshaders, with options to create blemishes as overlays.

  • NadinoNadino Posts: 258

    Iray compatible? That I know of there isn't anything special needed of the maps other than playing with the settings.

    I'd say that making a skin this way without visible seams is more difficult than Iray.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

    Base diffuse map is 'render neutral'...so are bump and normal maps.  Other than that, the various other maps will need to be made as needed.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 30,870
    edited July 2015

    ...and this is why I am so reluctant to even install G3F.  The cost to purchase a a bunch of character sets, skins, and skin resources (on top of morphs and other content) all over again to make the  new figure "useful" for my needs is far more than my budget can withstand.   At least with Genesis/G2 I can use texture sets and morphs from older generations.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • RCDescheneRCDeschene Posts: 2,747
    edited July 2015
    barbult said:

    What does "bake" mean in this context?

    I've always wondered why that term is used for shaders myself... I've never been sure whether I want it to give me a rich chocolatey brownie taste in my mouth or that of a savory, melty cheese sause topping... :) 

    Post edited by RCDeschene on
  • KeryaKerya Posts: 9,607

    " Baked" as in integrated, incorporated ...

  • SadKitty_CarraraSadKitty_Carrara Posts: 21,391

    you get shader mixer recipes etc, it all sounds so tasty

     

  • For the dazsphere you don't really bake shaders, you bake textures. In some other industries you sometimes do bake shaders...

  • BejaymacBejaymac Posts: 1,263
    edited July 2015

    Just to give people some idea of the problems a V4/G1/G2 > G3F UV converter would have.

    The attached image shows G3F with my V4 clone dialed up, the red area is the surfaces that the torso texture gets applied to.
    Now that yellow outline you see is the area that Victoria 4's torso texture would cover, notice how there is quite a bit of gray inside the outline and some red outside it.

    This means a surface would have to use two separate diffuse maps at the same time, and none of our existing shaders could cope with that.

    You could remap G3F and redo the surfaces to roughly match and then save it as a subset, but the seams (points at shoulders) are going to be ragged as hell, and I doubt if DAZ would even allow it in the store let alone let you distribute it else where.

    The only real choice for the masses is something like TC2, that can render/bake new textures for G3F from the textures of the older figures.

    UVs.jpg
    428 x 620 - 145K
    Post edited by Bejaymac on
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