Show Us Your Iray Renders. Part II
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...but, I thought The Girl was supposed to be Daz's Pinup figure??
the girl now has a rival and she has a male counterpart on the way from the promo update buy Callie 6 pro and get extra 30% off Cory 6 when released and the iray renders enhance Callie's textures probably a lot of the new standalone characters will be geared towards getting the most out of iray rendering
I gotta say it, there is not gamma 2.20 in 8bits images as jpg sorry guys all you do is blasting the curves of exposure LUMINOSITY , the images have still the same gamma as they had before unless you do the job with 32bits and exr files .. With this I mean Iray still handle the image as Liner no matter what you did to it because if it was other case it would adjust the curves while rendering but it does not .
That are a nice tips as most of the textures need some blast , but the idea is just warped in a wrong terminology to sounds cool but make not sense .
Plug in a diffuse color maps into Translucency channel is a very bad idea , it would works better if you can do it to Transmitting color channel under SSS but no option for that there beside a color .
The Translucent channel need to correspond 50\50 with the diffuse color that why the right brightness level is here important , anything darker on the skin color maps will be more translucent in render and darker .
For that you need to create translucent shadow map in gray scale 2.20 gamma , remove the red channel from it and plug in into Translucent channel with the color RED 255. 0.0 to block the eyebrows and other kind of surface imperfections or hair stubble
The shadow maps in G2F are not the one that should be used , all you do it convert the Image to black and white in Photoshop and slide the RED channel all way up , it will make place for the Translucency later
Bellow the maps and color I used for references, I may create a universal thickness maps for the standard models so it may works better for everyone I will try one and see the effect
I've been reducing levels by .45 and then saving as PNG. I don't know if that's doing the proper job. But it seems to end up with skin that looks mostly the same but a little softer and feeling with more depth.
But maybe I'm being superstitious and not doing anything useful. ;)
The problem I have is, of course, that I have no decent way of making 'proper' translucent maps. So half-arsed ones will have to do.
:lol:
As long as the correct buttons in Daz Studio are clicked in the end, whatever there called is almost meaningless to me.
P.S. before the discussion here went that direction, the only things I knew about 'Albedo' had to do with Snowball earth, drop-stones, Cap carbonates, and things of that sort, lol.
:-/
Is the Albedo map different at all from the diffuse map, or is it the same thing?
Albedo is how much a surface absorbs light.
It might be similar to a diffuse map, but it reeeeally depends.
I think I'm going to experiment with using grayscale inverted map of diffuse as a trans weight and then just use red or pink as color.
One of the biggest differences between an Albedo map in a PBR system like Iray and a traditional diffuse map in 3Delight is the lack of directional light or ambient occlusion.
In general there should be no lighting information at all
In my skin maps I have still 56% lighting information as I use it in 50/50 with translucent channel
but with other materials like metal or other not translucent surfaces there should be no light info to get the best photo realistic result
all pure metals does not have any diffuse colors as the surface is based on reflections and not diffuse so diffuse is pure black what means total reflection .. the Albedo for metal would be the specular color of the metal
Do you know that completely rusted metal like iron for example is not a metal at all in PBR system ? it mean it does not have any values of iron any more ..
Convert the color maps to gray scale and put the red channel all way UP sort of Infra red look
it will allow the translucent color to pass it , use only red 255 color for the translucent color , set to 0.45 to max 0.50 for white skin tones
how darker the skin tone how lower should be the translucent value , for example African skin no more than 0.25 for the skin
My theory working in practice and after many tests with different PBR values I am pleasant
bellow made test with different skin values changing just the translucent values and Albedo colors and luminosity having still the same textures in the setup what was the white dude,what was changed was the luminosity and albedo color in the Base color channel to represent the Melanin
The setting was based on the level of Melanin in the skin that block the light and translucent effect of the skin
Pink skin
Luminosity 56/50 Translucent
Golden skin
Luminosity 51/45 Translucent
Dark Skin
Luminosity 31/25 Translucent
The specular and reflection + top coating not changed since this no matter by skin color but the skin type only oily/dry
I render with the standard SUN and SKY as I want to have some standard values as each HDRI maps altering stuff due to quality so I want to go with the true PBR light values
I covered the dude so it render faster for my tests and not calculate everything lol
Albedo It is the non absorbing or reflecting map it is the base color map since it should include just the base color
so you can paint your skin texture maps and still get amazing effect without using photos anymore ..
Translucent SSS absorb the light
Specular reflecting the light
I made example of non light information in true Albedo map vs standard Diffuse
Yea, metals are cool when there not fuzed by lack of pixels, tho that takes a good lens per-say, lol. The biggest difficulty with the micro-features of machined metals (and the weaves of some cloth), is how the surface can be quite polar as to what direction it will refract/reflect light from. Something I have yet to see done in 3delight, if at all possible. Case and point, Carbon-fiber cloth example attached. The threads are incredibly small, and yet there effect on the gloss/reflection is quite visible at a distance. I digress tho.
That's what I've been doing to my textures. They're pretty much unrecognisable from the original semi-photo diffuse textures.
As for using 2.2 gamma corrected (but yes, strictly speaking linear) images, it's simply because I want the lighting to work correctly and subtly and render with tonemapping switched off, and linear jpegs don't currently pass muster either, but for different reasons. I'm sure with the final release they'll work correctly and all I have to do is change directory names (I also have linear versions backed up). I really don't get the dilemma. If the transmaps only work correctly after a gamma rgb correction of 2.2, why is everyone assuming the rgb maps do? If someone's happy rendering at 2.2 to an 8bit LDR colour depth with washed out lighting, I'm not stopping them, but the irony is that that's doing what I'm doing but worse IMHO, because the lighting's getting crushed which is the most important graduation in an image. I don't miss the tonal range in an albedo map, either, because, for test purposes, there isn't particularly much in smooth graduated subtle tones to be had anyway, so I'm temporarily choosing the lesser of two evils as far as I'm concerned.
I made another test without textures at all , just base simple color and normal maps for the skin
I measured the skin specular luminosity and it was not greater than 56-68 exactly as in my references photo
Here come the power of the detailed models , all we need to focus here are the right scaled normal , displacement or bump maps
the super photo textures are no more needed when rendering using PBR as the world belong to reflection and micro surface now
Thanks, That last pic showed what my dictionary lacked. Including what way the Iray scale went on absorbancy. I think. Black has max absorbance?Yea, metals are cool when there not fuzed by lack of pixels, tho that takes a good lens per-say, lol. The biggest difficulty with the micro-features of machined metals (and the weaves of some cloth), is how the surface can be quite polar as to what direction it will refract/reflect light from. Something I have yet to see done in 3delight, if at all possible. Case and point, Carbon-fiber cloth example attached. The threads are incredibly small, and yet there effect on the gloss/reflection is quite visible at a distance. I digress tho.
Mec4D, There's a good article about Photoreal skin in 3D World - June (2015).
Everything you import into image editor have 1.1 gamma and so is the gamma when you export it out even after visual correction to 2.2
then you render it without Tone Mapping at Gamma 1,1 so your texture maps are visually back to gamma 1.1 in your render , make not much sense of this process .
It would be better if we had a slider for RGB gamma values as in Octane as it was always very handy for quick correction without messing up in Photoshop...
Transmaps\Opacity\Cut out maps should be in grayscale mode saved with the ICC profile of Gray Gamma 2.2 to work correctly
and not saved as desaturated RGB , just because it is black and white not mean it is in grayscale but people forget about.
The Cut Out is designed also to cut out the polygons and not for creating semi transparent objects like hair , glass or clothing
for semi opaque surface there should be used translucency , back scattering etc..
The trans maps should looks like alpha with only white and black color no shades of gray to calculate fast and correctly other way you stock with your hair render forever ..
PBR materials are the most easy ever ..not need to mess it up with alternatives that only slow down the rendering time and give no realistic effect
Skin is not easy and was never easy anywhere .. but if we keep it by the PBR rules we may get something with that
That's what I've been doing to my textures. They're pretty much unrecognisable from the original semi-photo diffuse textures.
As for using 2.2 gamma corrected (but yes, strictly speaking linear) images, it's simply because I want the lighting to work correctly and subtly and render with tonemapping switched off, and linear jpegs don't currently pass muster either, but for different reasons. I'm sure with the final release they'll work correctly and all I have to do is change directory names (I also have linear versions backed up). I really don't get the dilemma. If the transmaps only work correctly after a gamma rgb correction of 2.2, why is everyone assuming the rgb maps do? If someone's happy rendering at 2.2 to an 8bit LDR colour depth with washed out lighting, I'm not stopping them, but the irony is that that's doing what I'm doing but worse IMHO, because the lighting's getting crushed which is the most important graduation in an image. I don't miss the tonal range in an albedo map, either, because, for test purposes, there isn't particularly much in smooth graduated subtle tones to be had anyway, so I'm temporarily choosing the lesser of two evils as far as I'm concerned.
I am reading articles for the last 17 years man , now if someone give a hand with Iray .. but not saw anything anywhere even from big boys
but things may change soon after everyone get hands on Iray 2015 as you may know WE are the first !!! on the market to play with
but thanks I will check out the article and see what's new
Heh, well... I wasn't using the word gamma to sound cool. The Gamma Correction adjustment in Photoshop is part of my current process, and there is no other terminology for it. I'd been applying gamma correction to textures for the same reason in Octane for a year or two, it was required when using a specular material for skin. (Octane allows you to adjust a texture's gamma inside the shader, with the "gamma" control) If we think about what we're doing as art, many different techniques can be valid. The more the better. :)
Experimenting with making ZBrush morphs for G2 here. I was aiming for something along the lines of the old Blackhearted GND2 character, with less stylization. Much of the character modelling done in the V3-S3-D3 era is still fantastic looking to me.
Just illustrating my point.
Jim I think you have the opposite definition of linear textures. Linear would be inverse gamma, after they are "un-corrected" to a gamma of 1.
Mec4d thank you for that very elucidating series of posts.
I got your point pls no offense , the only reason I was talking about that people starting to talking about something misleading others, all what was really happen here was the adjustment of the LEVEL by increasing the gamma level , but if it was 1.9 or 4.0 or 2.2 it only matter to the main texture and there is not magical 2.2 that will improve all textures rendered with Iray.
The adjustments to the Level will be as always different to each texture maps set as not all of them need it , what working to create your art work not mean it is the standard , and that what I want to clear out .. as I am about the standard for all and not just about my art render.
The correct material setting in Iray for the sun sky standard light should works with all light condition as we talk about PBR .
Very nice light setup and render btw .. very atmospheric
Heh, well... I wasn't using the word gamma to sound cool. The Gamma Correction adjustment in Photoshop is part of my current process, and there is no other terminology for it. I'd been applying gamma correction to textures for the same reason in Octane for a year or two, it was required when using a specular material for skin. (Octane allows you to adjust a texture's gamma inside the shader, with the "gamma" control) If we think about what we're doing as art, many different techniques can be valid. The more the better. :)
Experimenting with making ZBrush morphs for G2 here. I was aiming for something along the lines of the old Blackhearted GND2 character, with less stylization. Much of the character modelling done in the V3-S3-D3 era is still fantastic looking to me.
Which is what's happening with the right hand figure's textures, after I switched off the Exposure adjustment top layer which had been making the texture 2.2 Log for rendering at gamma 1.
And this one uses the old BBC test card, but the 50% matte grey ball and colour saturation in the lighting and sky says it all to my eye.
It may be your monitor gamma set off
the gamma 1 looks to me too dark , the shades of grey almost melting into black color without difference looks like old render from Bryce
the gamma 2 the right side test card is clear with all shades of grey and natural grey color compared to the yellowish grey from gamma 1
I look at this via my Wacom Cintiq monitor calibrated .
I'm also using a Cintiq, and I just recalibrated my gamma to make sure (it was a bit off but not by much - delivering for film makes you attentive to such things). The gamma 1 version looks fine to me, and the test card to the left has the best range where the slightly lighter dots are visible in the greystrip ends. The grey ball in gamma1 also looks right to me, while the grey ball in gamma2 looks insipid and washed out as does the sky. Carole also looks like she has the proper tonal range. The image also should look warm with a sun-sky set to18.30pm in mid-March. If it looks cool then IMHO it really shouldn't.
Here's another rendered at gamma 1 with lighter and darker grey balls (0.25 and 0.75).
Mec4D, when you are talking about luminosity... what/where are you talking about?
Iray settings, processing on the map... ?
I think there is just some confusion about when and where the use of the gamma correction is called for. I'm only suggesting people do it if they want to follow the exact skin setup I described. For the specific way I use the Iray Uber Base Shader that I described a while ago, a gamma correction of 2.2 is what I use for every skin texture. It was the solution I arrived at back in the Octane days, trying to figure out why my skin looked too dark with the TonySculptor Octane material. I simply needed to do the same gamma correction to every skin. Note, I'm not touching the gamma correction of the Tone Mapping for the scene (that is left at default in this test), just the textures that I put into Translucency Color for G2F's face here.
On the left is my skin setup with the default diffuse texture, on the right is each skin with a gamma correction of 2.2 applied with Photoshop's Exposure tool. Every time, it brings the skin back to what it is supposed to look like. It's not any kind of magic bullet to fix every problem, I just know from experience that it is the precise adjustment I make for my skin setup.
What you're working on looks very interesting, and the results you're getting are great. (putting a cartilage bone in the nose is especially clever) I can't wait to learn more about it. You've mentioned LUMINOSITY a few times, and I'm not sure what this is a reference to.
a 18.30pm in mid-March it explain the yellowish tone .. you should make test with 12:00PM so the K is right without color cast to see how the gray tones looks like
I made test with the Sun Sky and set the time and space exactly as it was in my Photo Exif info
gamma 2.2
the blue sky from render matched the photo blue sky , if I set to gamma 1 the sky is double darker than the sky in the photo .. what make it clear ..
I'm also using a Cintiq, and I just recalibrated my gamma to make sure (it was a bit off but not by much - delivering for film makes you attentive to such things). The gamma 1 version looks fine to me, and the test card to the left has the best range where the slightly lighter dots are visible in the greystrip ends. The grey ball in gamma1 also looks right to me, while the grey ball in gamma2 looks insipid and washed out as does the sky. Carole also looks like she has the proper tonal range. The image also should look warm with a sun-sky set to18.30pm in mid-March. If it looks cool then IMHO it really shouldn't.
Here's another rendered at gamma 1 with lighter and darker grey balls (0.25 and 0.75).
Only if the atmospheric humidity was in the EXIF file and iray PBR has a setting to match.
Well for your settings it works ,I don't know why you would put albedo maps into translucency color channel but if you like it , that what important but I guess you getting nothing more than a nice waxy candle ;)
The Luminosity : Luminosity is defined as the condition of being bright or having light. An example of something with luminosity is the sun or baked light into photo textures, the Luminosity is the value of how much light was baked into the textures , the skin cant extend the level of 72 the best between 56 to 68 for Caucasian skin, in phtoshop you can see the level of the Luminosity with the color picker it show as L : if the value is higher you need to adjust the gamma up or down until you get the right value , it will works better with the Iray light ans everything else in overall , all about balance
I think there is just some confusion about when and where the use of the gamma correction is called for. I'm only suggesting people do it if they want to follow the exact skin setup I described. For the specific way I use the Iray Uber Base Shader that I described a while ago, a gamma correction of 2.2 is what I use for every skin texture. It was the solution I arrived at back in the Octane days, trying to figure out why my skin looked too dark with the TonySculptor Octane material. I simply needed to do the same gamma correction to every skin. Note, I'm not touching the gamma correction of the Tone Mapping for the scene (that is left at default in this test), just the textures that I put into Translucency Color for G2F's face here.
On the left is my skin setup with the default diffuse texture, on the right is each skin with a gamma correction of 2.2 applied with Photoshop's Exposure tool. Every time, it brings the skin back to what it is supposed to look like. It's not any kind of magic bullet to fix every problem, I just know from experience that it is the precise adjustment I make for my skin setup.
What you're working on looks very interesting, and the results you're getting are great. (putting a cartilage bone in the nose is especially clever) I can't wait to learn more about it. You've mentioned LUMINOSITY a few times, and I'm not sure what this is a reference to.
the level of the light in the map , I just wrote about in above post