Male Clothing Content Dead?

CHWT

SickleYield said:

Timbales said:

SickleYield said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, lol. https://www.deviantart.com/sickleyield/journal/Why-isn-t-there-more-male-clothing-754344432

I would like to ask a question you are under no obligation to answer. Do you or have you, as a PA, make content solely because you think it will sell and do not feel inspired by it at all?

No, if that was the case I wouldn't support males at all. Male products almost never pay back the hours invested.

I never make things I hate working on. I am a genre fan, I like making genre content, I do lots of fantasy, sci fi, and horror. Getting to pick what I make is one of the things that makes this job most fulfilling. But I'm probably never going to make the elaborate male-only outfits people in this thread want, because the return on my investment would be soul-crushingly tiny. I can't even express how horrible that feels, to spend fifty hours on something and then see 40 people buy it in the intro. This is exactly what happened to my last male-only product. I threw my whole heart and soul into it, I sweated bullets getting it through testing, I made something I loved, and almost nobody bought it.

Awwwww, *hugs* already wishlisted the item you mentioned if I guessed it right. I love most of your products, they are very practical, and thank you for catering to our needs of male related products!

SickleYield

CHWT said:

SickleYield said:

Timbales said:

SickleYield said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, lol. https://www.deviantart.com/sickleyield/journal/Why-isn-t-there-more-male-clothing-754344432

I would like to ask a question you are under no obligation to answer. Do you or have you, as a PA, make content solely because you think it will sell and do not feel inspired by it at all?

No, if that was the case I wouldn't support males at all. Male products almost never pay back the hours invested.

I never make things I hate working on. I am a genre fan, I like making genre content, I do lots of fantasy, sci fi, and horror. Getting to pick what I make is one of the things that makes this job most fulfilling. But I'm probably never going to make the elaborate male-only outfits people in this thread want, because the return on my investment would be soul-crushingly tiny. I can't even express how horrible that feels, to spend fifty hours on something and then see 40 people buy it in the intro. This is exactly what happened to my last male-only product. I threw my whole heart and soul into it, I sweated bullets getting it through testing, I made something I loved, and almost nobody bought it.

Awwwww, *hugs* already wishlisted the item you mentioned if I guessed it right. I love most of your products, they are very practical, and thank you for catering to our needs of male related products!

Aw, thanks :)

Fungible User

It feels like Groundhog Day in here. :-)

kyoto kid

...apparently to get what nobody else will make pretty much means the only option is to create your own clothing content.

Had the funds been available when Clo still offered MD9 with a personal perpetual licence I would have bought it as it's far more intuitive for clothing creation than a traditional modelling programme. 

Ah, well,

Chumly

Hmmm....
Could DAZ itself incentivise PA's making Male stuff?

Back in the day, Ladies Night at the local club meant women got in free and had reduced drink prices.  The result was that a crap ton of men came too, paying full price because they "knew" the women would be there.

Could DAZ incentivise the making of Male stuff by giving the PA's a "larger cut" or larger return on Male Stuff sold?

Also, and I have posted this idea before but it gets shot down almost out of hand....

I think some PAs are missing an opportunity by not going the PATREON route in addition their DAZ/RENDO/R'Otica/etc etc stores.

Yes, the PA maybe working on their umpteenth Flowing Sexy Dress for a DAZ shop sale, but via PATREON, you can connect to your audience directly.  I would have no problem supporting some of my fav's at 5 Quid a month.  Communicate and let us feel we are part of your support team and I'd bet good things would happen. 
All those things you have been working on that might not be ready for Daz Prime Time (or NSFW) could be given out as supprot freebies

Then with enough "support", you might feel more inclined to adventure out into the world of making cool stuff cause its cool.

If you know nothing of VN's*, lets just say there are some folks making thousands per month, and over 6 figures annually, on some of their Adult Oriented VNs via PATREON. 

*If you want an example, search for Being a DIK 
 

Timbales

I've wondered if some types of content would benefit from different marketing, like having it's own boutique within the store that features only those items and has a sub-url. Like www.daz3d.com/mensshop that can be bookmarked and be an easy go-to to where you're not overwhelmed with all the offerings that don't fit what you're looking for and it feels like a place your interest is wanted.

MelissaGT

Chumly said:

Hmmm....
Could DAZ itself incentivise PA's making Male stuff?

Back in the day, Ladies Night at the local club meant women got in free and had reduced drink prices.  The result was that a crap ton of men came too, paying full price because they "knew" the women would be there.

Could DAZ incentivise the making of Male stuff by giving the PA's a "larger cut" or larger return on Male Stuff sold?

Also, and I have posted this idea before but it gets shot down almost out of hand....

I think some PAs are missing an opportunity by not going the PATREON route in addition their DAZ/RENDO/R'Otica/etc etc stores.

Yes, the PA maybe working on their umpteenth Flowing Sexy Dress for a DAZ shop sale, but via PATREON, you can connect to your audience directly.  I would have no problem supporting some of my fav's at 5 Quid a month.  Communicate and let us feel we are part of your support team and I'd bet good things would happen. 
All those things you have been working on that might not be ready for Daz Prime Time (or NSFW) could be given out as supprot freebies
 

Given the skill level and time requirement for making super detailed clothing, I'd go out on a limb and say that $5/mo isn't enough of an incentive to make it worth a creator's time. Yes, multiple memberships multiplied by $5/mo adds up, but if the clothing item (in the store) should/would cost around $25 or $30 (or more, depending on level of complexity), how could I expect it to be given to me for only $5/mo? Heck, there's someone on Patreon that charges a $5/mo membership fee to download all their ripped video game models rigged up for use in Daz. 

I do like the concept of Daz incentivizing creators to create more of specific content, but others could say that's discrimination.  

ramon73

Timbales said:

I've wondered if some types of content would benefit from different marketing, like having it's own boutique within the store that features only those items and has a sub-url. Like www.daz3d.com/mensshop that can be bookmarked and be an easy go-to to where you're not overwhelmed with all the offerings that don't fit what you're looking for and it feels like a place your interest is wanted.

More specified sections would be welcome in general.

Gordig

MelissaGT said:

Chumly said:

Hmmm....
Could DAZ itself incentivise PA's making Male stuff?

Back in the day, Ladies Night at the local club meant women got in free and had reduced drink prices.  The result was that a crap ton of men came too, paying full price because they "knew" the women would be there.

Could DAZ incentivise the making of Male stuff by giving the PA's a "larger cut" or larger return on Male Stuff sold?

Also, and I have posted this idea before but it gets shot down almost out of hand....

I think some PAs are missing an opportunity by not going the PATREON route in addition their DAZ/RENDO/R'Otica/etc etc stores.

Yes, the PA maybe working on their umpteenth Flowing Sexy Dress for a DAZ shop sale, but via PATREON, you can connect to your audience directly.  I would have no problem supporting some of my fav's at 5 Quid a month.  Communicate and let us feel we are part of your support team and I'd bet good things would happen. 
All those things you have been working on that might not be ready for Daz Prime Time (or NSFW) could be given out as supprot freebies
 

I do like the concept of Daz incentivizing creators to create more of specific content, but others could say that's discrimination.  

Setting aside the question of discrimination, I can't really see an incentive on Daz's end. What exactly do they get out of the arrangement? Are they supposed to do this simply to appease a potentially small but vocal segment of their customer base?

cridgit

Redacted

CHWT

cridgit said:

Gordig said:

Are they supposed to do this simply to appease a potentially small but vocal segment of their customer base?

Unfortuntely this is increasingly the way the world seems to be heading nowadays.

Being vocal does not necessarily mean being unreasonable or impolite or anything derogatory. That's one thing. Whether a company decides to cater the needs of the vocal customers is another thing. I don't see why being vocal has become a crime. And it's especially okay for customers of this store to be vocal - are their voices heard? Hmmmm, I dunno

And why do companies appease the vocal segment of customers? It's a benefit and loss analysis. If giving something remotely similar to what they want at a low cost can make them shut up and clear up part of the hassle, why not? Yeah, at least that's my many years of experience in the customer service industry

cridgit

Redacted

CHWT

cridgit said:

CHWT said:

cridgit said:

Gordig said:

Are they supposed to do this simply to appease a potentially small but vocal segment of their customer base?

Unfortuntely this is increasingly the way the world seems to be heading nowadays.

Being vocal does not necessarily mean being unreasonable or impolite or anything derogatory. That's one thing. Whether a company decides to cater the needs of the vocal customers is another thing. I don't see why being vocal has become a crime. And it's especially okay for customers of this store to be vocal - are their voices heard? Hmmmm, I dunno

And why do companies appease the vocal segment of customers? It's a benefit and loss analysis. If giving something remotely similar to what they want at a low cost can make them shut up and clear up part of the hassle, why not? Yeah, at least that's my many years of experience in the customer service industry

There is nothing wrong with a small group being vocal as long as they don't forget they're a small group. The problems start when the small group starts making demands. As has been said a dozen times in this thread - and the dozens of threads that preceded it - if there was a big enough demand for male clothing, PAs would meet that demand. I personally have no interest in steampunk and scifi and fairies and vampires and monsters, but the store is flooded with it. I just wait until something comes along that catches my interest and let everyone else enjoy all that other stuff.

I've been here for 12 years and every few months somebody kicks off a new thread about the lack of male clothing. People chime in with all the points that have been expressed in this thread before we all go back to buying mostly female clothing.

 

 

Ha! At least threads like this allow people to say what they want, and if this makes people feel better, why not? Maybe you need to steer clear of this kind of threads... just saying.

cridgit

zombietaggerung

cridgit said:

CHWT said:

cridgit said:

Gordig said:

Are they supposed to do this simply to appease a potentially small but vocal segment of their customer base?

Unfortuntely this is increasingly the way the world seems to be heading nowadays.

Being vocal does not necessarily mean being unreasonable or impolite or anything derogatory. That's one thing. Whether a company decides to cater the needs of the vocal customers is another thing. I don't see why being vocal has become a crime. And it's especially okay for customers of this store to be vocal - are their voices heard? Hmmmm, I dunno

And why do companies appease the vocal segment of customers? It's a benefit and loss analysis. If giving something remotely similar to what they want at a low cost can make them shut up and clear up part of the hassle, why not? Yeah, at least that's my many years of experience in the customer service industry

There is nothing wrong with a small group being vocal as long as they don't forget they're a small group. The problems start when the small group starts making demands. As has been said a dozen times in this thread - and the dozens of threads that preceded it - if there was a big enough demand for male clothing, PAs would meet that demand. I personally have no interest in steampunk and scifi and fairies and vampires and monsters, but the store is flooded with it. I just wait until something comes along that catches my interest and let everyone else enjoy all that other stuff.

I've been here for 12 years and every few months somebody kicks off a new thread about the lack of male clothing. People chime in with all the points that have been expressed in this thread before we all go back to buying mostly female clothing.

I don't. I simply buy nothing. 

background

It will be interesting to see if DAZ do anything with regard to the demands of this small vocal group. If they do then I expect there will be plenty of other small groups who will become more vocal for what they want.

CHWT

background said:

It will be interesting to see if DAZ do anything with regard to the demands of this small vocal group. If they do then I expect there will be plenty of other small groups who will become more vocal for what they want.

Ha! I bet nothing would be done. But I think it's more interesting if different small vocal groups would be regarded as troublemakers. Diversity, huh?

ioonrxoon

Haha, this is just ridiculous. Nevermind that it makes no sense for a business to reward and encourage the creation of items that have less demand, but what message would that send to PA's who create items that move and make load of $$ for Daz? How in the world would that ever be right? If anything, I'd expect the top sellers to be rewarded, not the opposite.

CHWT

ioonrxoon said:

Haha, this is just ridiculous. Nevermind that it makes no sense for a business to reward and encourage the creation of items that have less demand, but what message would that send to PA's who create items that move and make load of $$ for Daz? How in the world would that ever be right? If anything, I'd expect the top sellers to be rewarded, not the opposite.

You don't need to worry! Nothing's gonna change!

kyoto kid

...as someone who uses Daz for illistration work, the imbalance of female to male clothing is a is a major issue. 

CHWT

kyoto kid said:

...as someone who uses Daz for illistration work, the imbalance of female to male clothing is a is a major issue. 

You would be told to only do female illustration from now on.

Cris Palomino

The problem I see is that I see the clamor for male clothing, but not the follow-through. If, when male clothing appears, it was purchased in large enough numbers you would see more made. Often though, I see a lot of complaints about one or more aspects of the clothing and also see people talk about, well I'm wishlisting it till it's on sale for 98% discount (exaggerated, yes, but you know what I mean). Artists can't make a living off of promises to "buy if you'll make it" b/c too often, it hasn't been true or enough people really there to make the numbers make a difference. Even the group here recognizes you're a small faction. No, you can't but every piece of male clothing that comes out. I buy what suits my aesthetic. But that runs purchase percentages down even further and as they're generally bought in smaller numbers compared to female clothing in the first place, it really makes it difficult to justify the time investment on the artists' part. I don't see Patreon working as most of us come here, and share our profits with Daz, b/c we don't have to deal with the headache of advertising and, most,of all, customer service. Not everyone is comfortable interfacing with their customers/patrons, and Patreon really thrives for those that are interacting. That interaction is time intensive and takes away from actual work time. Even people who like to engage have spoken about how you can be worn thin. So all in all, it's a dilemma.

One person said that they guess they have to make their own. 1) many artists are born when the desire to have something, that is not available, prompts them to learn to make it themselves. 2) some will make only for themselves. 3) some will learn how hard it can be, not to make the clothing, but to make it work with a poseable figure. 4) some will learn how extra hard it is to make clothing for not just a poseable, but also morphable figures. And some will come away with an appreciation for those making clothing at all, and/or become successful themselves.

CHWT

Cris Palomino said:

The problem I see is that I see the clamor for male clothing, but not the follow-through. If, when male clothing appears, it was purchased in large enough numbers you would see more made. Often though, I see a lot of complaints about one or more aspects of the clothing and also see people talk about, well I'm wishlisting it till it's on sale for 98% discount (exaggerated, yes, but you know what I mean). Artists can't make a living off of promises to "buy if you'll make it" b/c too often, it hasn't been true or enough people really there to make the numbers make a difference. Even the group here recognizes you're a small faction. No, you can't but every piece of male clothing that comes out. I buy what suits my aesthetic. But that runs purchase percentages down even further and as they're generally bought in smaller numbers compared to female clothing in the first place, it really makes it difficult to justify the time investment on the artists' part. I don't see Patreon working as most of us come here, and share our profits with Daz, b/c we don't have to deal with the headache of advertising and, most,of all, customer service. Not everyone is comfortable interfacing with their customers/patrons, and Patreon really thrives for those that are interacting. That interaction is time intensive and takes away from actual work time. Even people who like to engage have spoken about how you can be worn thin. So all in all, it's a dilemma.

One person said that they guess they have to make their own. 1) many artists are born when the desire to have something, that is not available, prompts them to learn to make it themselves. 2) some will make only for themselves. 3) some will learn how hard it can be, not to make the clothing, but to make it work with a poseable figure. 4) some will learn how extra hard it is to make clothing for not just a poseable, but also morphable figures. And some will come away with an appreciation for those making clothing at all, and/or become successful themselves.

Good points Cris. Except about customer service (blame the QC though?) and lack of demand for male clothing. Some PAs' items are instabuys. They just make a few products but every item is a masterpiece. They still persevere. So, they totally have my respect and admiration.

Desire is limitless (pun intended). So does skimpwear. Hold on tight baby let's ride!

ioonrxoon

I'm not worried, but I find some of the suggestions expressed here unfair for both PAs and other customers. I'd also like to see things that are unavailable here, but I won't demand them in such a manner.

Aside from Daz using other PAs for bundles, I don't see how the situation can be changed without resorting to unrealistic solutions. But I don't think that will happen either; not as long as those bundles sell well.

CHWT

ioonrxoon said:

I'm not worried, but I find some of the suggestions expressed here unfair for both PAs and other customers. I'd also like to see things that are unavailable here, but I won't demand them in such a manner.

Aside from Daz using other PAs for bundles, I don't see how the situation can be changed without resorting to unrealistic solutions. But I don't think that will happen either; not as long as those bundles sell well.

Keep up with the standard of the Pablo bundle maybe. I actually really like the quality of the clothing items, even when mariachi is not my stuff.

ioonrxoon

Yeah, both the Mariachi outfit and the OOT hair were standouts there. Didn't care for the rest of the bundles.

Timbales

cridgit said:

CHWT said:

cridgit said:

Gordig said:

Are they supposed to do this simply to appease a potentially small but vocal segment of their customer base?

Unfortuntely this is increasingly the way the world seems to be heading nowadays.

Being vocal does not necessarily mean being unreasonable or impolite or anything derogatory. That's one thing. Whether a company decides to cater the needs of the vocal customers is another thing. I don't see why being vocal has become a crime. And it's especially okay for customers of this store to be vocal - are their voices heard? Hmmmm, I dunno

And why do companies appease the vocal segment of customers? It's a benefit and loss analysis. If giving something remotely similar to what they want at a low cost can make them shut up and clear up part of the hassle, why not? Yeah, at least that's my many years of experience in the customer service industry

There is nothing wrong with a small group being vocal as long as they don't forget they're a small group. The problems start when the small group starts making demands. As has been said a dozen times in this thread - and the dozens of threads that preceded it - if there was a big enough demand for male clothing, PAs would meet that demand. I personally have no interest in steampunk and scifi and fairies and vampires and monsters, but the store is flooded with it. I just wait until something comes along that catches my interest and let everyone else enjoy all that other stuff.

I've been here for 12 years and every few months somebody kicks off a new thread about the lack of male clothing. People chime in with all the points that have been expressed in this thread before we all go back to buying mostly female clothing.

 

 

Who is demanding anything? 

 

AllenArt

cridgit said:

CHWT said:

cridgit said:

Gordig said:

Are they supposed to do this simply to appease a potentially small but vocal segment of their customer base?

Unfortuntely this is increasingly the way the world seems to be heading nowadays.

Being vocal does not necessarily mean being unreasonable or impolite or anything derogatory. That's one thing. Whether a company decides to cater the needs of the vocal customers is another thing. I don't see why being vocal has become a crime. And it's especially okay for customers of this store to be vocal - are their voices heard? Hmmmm, I dunno

And why do companies appease the vocal segment of customers? It's a benefit and loss analysis. If giving something remotely similar to what they want at a low cost can make them shut up and clear up part of the hassle, why not? Yeah, at least that's my many years of experience in the customer service industry

There is nothing wrong with a small group being vocal as long as they don't forget they're a small group. The problems start when the small group starts making demands. As has been said a dozen times in this thread - and the dozens of threads that preceded it - if there was a big enough demand for male clothing, PAs would meet that demand. I personally have no interest in steampunk and scifi and fairies and vampires and monsters, but the store is flooded with it. I just wait until something comes along that catches my interest and let everyone else enjoy all that other stuff.

I've been here for 12 years and every few months somebody kicks off a new thread about the lack of male clothing. People chime in with all the points that have been expressed in this thread before we all go back to buying mostly female clothing.

 

 

If males don't sell, perhaps then Daz should just STOP making male characters. I'd stop shopping here, others would stop shopping here, there would be no objections in the forums to the amount of female stuff because ALL the customers would be catered to because the site would be all females. What we've been trying to say is: there is a whole segment of the customer base that is not really being catered to. I can quit this stinking hobby tomorrow without another backward thought (I've done it before and I'm close now with all the NFT bull****, the lack of content that I want to buy, the silence of the site owners, the plummeting of QC and quality of some products sold here the last two years or so, the website crappy design and issues, etc.) I certainly have enough content to last me the rest of what's left of my life. But if Daz wants to keep me as a customer, they might want to listen to what it is I want to buy. The world is not the world it was 20 years ago and changes all the time. I think they'd be wise to keep up. If what they WANT is to cater to erotica and pron, then they are doing a fine job just the way they are. But a lot of us don't care about that end of it.

I think I'm done talking about this since I'm always preaching to the choir. "Male stuff don't sell, so we don't make it, therefore it doesn't sell because the stuff don't exist, see?"

maikdecker

One of the main points for me is: I buy a way lower % of female stuff (considering the enormous amount of stuff I COULD buy (if I was so inclined and had the money for it)) than male stuff.

The advantage there being so few male things in the shop.

JOdel

More matt zones, decently labeled, and a promo that shows them. I'll certainly buy things to kitbash if I can isolate the parts I want to use.

Admittedly, sometimes you tur off the stupid pauldrons and the tunic has no shoulder which isn't something to be encouraged at all.