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FBX-Export of morph data of beards ... ?

sdkraemersdkraemer Posts: 14
edited December 1969 in Daz Studio Discussion

Hello,

I am struggling with exporting morph data for beards.

I can successfully export morphed faces:

file -> export -> *.fbx

Animations checked
Morphs checked

Edit Morph rules ... head.CTRL|Export

I am using fbx version 2010 Binary for compatibility reasons.

Further import in other 3D Software works well.

Now, when having a beard involved I need to export also the morph data of the beard ...

So far I do not succeed in getting it out.

Who can give advice?

Kind Rgds,

Stefan

Comments

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,929
    edited February 2015

    Firstly does the beard have morph data or is it just autofollowing the figure it is conformed to?
    Check this by having the beard loaded on its own no other figure in scene and see if it has morphs in parameters.
    For my exports to iClone 3dxchange5 I need the morphs baked to the timeline too, other software may also require this.

    Example of what I need to do, it may help
    I use the transfer utility to transfer facial morphs to the beard checking the extra option that appears on the right selecting morphs, shaping and posing
    I then clone them under hidden in parameters and add to the head and with the beard only in the scene (safely saved as a new support asset first) apply a facial animation duf key to it that I bought from Reallusion that places all the visemes and facial expressions along set points on the timeline as keyframes so iClone 3Dx5 can read them, I then add my figure and conform the beard to it and do the same with the figure.

    Other software too may need morphs as keyframes at a point other than zero on the timeline to see them and in the beard mesh, I was just giving my workflow as an example.

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • sdkraemersdkraemer Posts: 14
    edited December 1969

    Thanks alot for the fast response .. I will check !

  • sdkraemersdkraemer Posts: 14
    edited December 1969

    It is just following. When Being in the Transfer Utility ...

    where are these options "morphs, shaping and posing" ?

    Picture of what I see in theTransfer Utility attached ...

    TransferUtility.jpg
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  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,929
    edited February 2015

    Click on morph targets, the text next to the checkbox and some options will come up in the window to the right
    one of them is shaping and posing, you need that one checked
    make sure you save the beard after under file as a support asset, figure, follower under a new name, rename it in the scene too to morphing M5 beard for example
    DAZ may crash to desktop doing this so working in bounding box a good idea and reload saved asset in a fresh scene is also advisable before fitting to figure and or cloning morphs to head if needed.
    DAZ gets very crashy using transfer utility for me and some others and I have a decent computer.

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • sdkraemersdkraemer Posts: 14
    edited December 1969

    OK, did it. Transfer Utility is doing a lot of copying now.

    As a recap:

    I have a genesis character with a morphed face and I have a beard following the face

    I am doing the copying .... options are right ... lot of transfer going on ...

    However: When having it finished, my beard is still not morphing on its own ... but ok ...

    Back with my genesis & beard in one scene and the asset utility having done its job.

    Having the beard selected in the scene now ...

    File->Save as->Support Assets -> Figure/Prop Asset ...

    takes me to the directory ...

    C:\Users\...\Documents\DAZ 3D\Studio\My Library\Figures

    I give it the name "morphing_M5_beard"

    In the popup I choose "follower" .. hit accept ... an endless process is going on "writing assets" ... even now ...

    To be honest I have no clue what this is doing and what I am getting from this.

    When this process is over what do I need to do then?

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,929
    edited February 2015

    Open a new scene (advisable to avoid crashing)
    load your saved beard and fit it to your figure and first see if that gets morphs in fbx export.
    if not you may need to bake them to the timeline like I do for iClone, I do not know what software you are exporting to it may be enough.

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • sdkraemersdkraemer Posts: 14
    edited December 1969

    Allright. Meanwhile I got the file created. It has around 5kb ... why does the process take that long (around 5 Minutes of saving?)

    New scene ...

    I load the animated and morphed character (without beard)

    From the content library I am dragging the item on the character

    I see the beard on the face but it is not morphed nor following the character ???

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,929
    edited December 1969

    The beard morphs are not under head but actor probably that is why in parameters I select show hidden, edit mode clone and clone to the head, then if lipsync or mimic used it will talk like the figure but on its own.
    Depending on what you are exporting to you may not need to do this, you do for iclone automated detection which I use.
    I do not think you need to for say Unreal game engine for example IIRC.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,929
    edited December 1969

    Is it fitted?

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,929
    edited December 1969

    Projection template I see you have "none" in your screenshot, I do not think that would make a difference but I would have chosen hair or bodysuit
    I only just noticed this, sorry

  • sdkraemersdkraemer Posts: 14
    edited December 1969

    see attachment. But the beard is doing nothing ... it is not morphed and not following the rig ...

    beard.jpg
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  • sdkraemersdkraemer Posts: 14
    edited December 1969

    If I just got morphing on the beard itself so that it is on his own, I would be helped ... it is not happening ... ??

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,929
    edited December 1969

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/48063/ maybe this thread is more help
    I was on my computer when I posted there, am on my android at the moment in bed ;-(
    am not sure what is missing but it is something I do often as very few PA's add morphs to beards for the softwares I use.

  • sdkraemersdkraemer Posts: 14
    edited December 1969

    Neverthelss many thanks for this and I will look at the other thread. I will raise head once i solved it :)

  • sdkraemersdkraemer Posts: 14
    edited December 1969

    I am completely stuck here.

    I think what needs to be achieved first is that the beard needs to receive its own morphing, so that it can be exported on its own later on.


    I summarize what I have and what I tried.


    SETUP
    ======

    A genesis figure loaded into the scene

    The genesis figure has keyframes on the timeline and facial morphs (3-4 parameters of the mouth mostly) all nicely playing.

    Having the product: "Unshaven Berads for Genesis"

    Applying the base beard into the scene/on the genesis figure

    Getting the beard object in the scene fitting on the character

    Having the beard selected going to shaping and selecting the beard style ... hair is growing in the face of the figure.

    Playing the genesis animation lets the beard follow bravely (following the rig and also following the morphs nicely)

    However Beard seems just to follow. When removing the genesis figure beard does nothing

    From observation:

    Selecting the Beard object->Parameters->Pose controls shows PHM parameters that obviously mirror the corresponding parameters of the figure ...

    When playing the animation I see the relevant values of these parameters changing (just values, slider isn't changing). Values are the same as on the figure (in % but the same values).

    TRANSFER UTILITY
    ================

    So, trying to transfer the morphs with the "Transfer Utility" from figure to beard. I did try out a multitude of settings.

    The attached image shows the settings that were recommended and mostly used.

    Transfer Utility is copying/replicating loads of parameters to the beard object.

    The relevant parameters of the beard (PHM...) stay the same and the corresponding parameters from the source I do not see being copied...

    Whatever ... Nothing has changed. When deleting the figure. The beard has no animation and no morph.

    I think I need to get to this point before thinking about exporting to fbx ...

    TU.jpg
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  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,929
    edited December 1969

    OK you are using the M5 beard by Mec4D, that one DOES have morphs
    and you have no grooming applied so you do not see the beard applied
    so you need not do ANYTHING with the transfer tool at all for that particular beard unlike many others
    just dial up the morph sliders as shown on my capture
    for expressions try them at a frame other than zero to bake to timeline
    it would help if you said which software you were exporting to as well

    groomed.JPG
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    groom.JPG
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    Capture.JPG
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  • sdkraemersdkraemer Posts: 14
    edited February 2015

    The background of my efforts is this hobby project:

    https://www.youtube.com/user/Magnus1805

    I am creating animated characters in DAZ ...

    From there I pass animated avatars to Marvelous Designer for cloth creation and simulation (mdd).

    Animation and obj/mdd for clothing finally ends up in my main 3D application: cinema 4D 14.0

    Import DAZ->C4D is in fbx. Works well for a rigged model. With face-morphs it becomes complicated. c4d 14.0. has a known bug with fbx/morph import. As I am relcutant to spent > 1.000 € on yearly upgrades I found a workaround.

    From C4D I do the export (animation/morph) to fbx 2010 Binary. I open it in C4D Rel. 11.0 for a second and save it to *.c4d there. I load this file in 14.0 and my morphs are perfectly working.

    Your above advice looks promising but I had this already. I already assumed that there might be something special with this case ... the fibre beards look fantastic but they are "massive expensive" ... have 2 other beard-products as well ...

    What crosses my mind ... The morph-slider of the beard is for constructing the mesh of the beard itself !!! Once the mesh is there it is morphed to the shape of the face.

    The below picture shows it all. Parameter in groom room is set to 100%. Everything is working perfectly within DAZ. You see the adaption to morphing. I think my problem is getting it baked to the timeline.

    I usually get my timeline-data/keys from converting aniblocs or I do the animation directly with keymate/graphmate to the timeline. All other data is following from there to the fbx export ... here things seem to be different ... What I am getting is the mesh for the beard just following the rig. All morph animation is missing. This does not seem to be baked to the timeline. However face-morphs of the character do come across.

    An idea that I am having in mind is to have the beard being independent to the character. If I just had the beard in the scene with all animation/morphing the export might treat it as a character. I then had a two step process. 1. Export of the character 2. Export of the beard in the same way (DAZ "thinking" it is a character) ... what prevents me from doing so is the fact that the beard is not morphed when being alone.

    groom.jpg
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    Post edited by sdkraemer on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,929
    edited February 2015

    Well to bake it into the timeline you need to manually add keyframed morphs along the timeline
    this is what I do for iClone, dial in morphs at a point other than zero
    in my case it does not matter about the order of the morphs as I do the facial animation in iclone, I just need them there to assign to visemes etc
    for a talking beard with lipsync or mimic live you may need to edit the configuration/mimic dmc file in notepad to replace genesis morphs with beard morph names
    not as hard as it sounds, I do it to make unsupported figures talk.
    It is basicly what mimic pro does but DAZ no longer has that in store and many Poser weightmapped figures crash it anyway so I have gotten quite used to using notepad instead.
    The morph names will be in parameters.

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • sdkraemersdkraemer Posts: 14
    edited December 1969

    Yep ... that is what I was thinking .. so thanks alot for the substantial exchange ... one step further on the learning curve ... I have hands on something different at the moment. Once I revisited this and finalized the task I will post a link with the result ... or possibly come back with another question ;-)

  • VargaPDVargaPD Posts: 26
    edited December 2015

    Any progress? I want to use bearded, lipsynced characters in Unity 5 (or Unreal Engine - but UE doesn't show the facial morphs correctly. I have tried it during august-september, with little success -.-" So I would like to use Unity). I don't want to make a game, but the Iray / Reality rendering is too much time for my weak computer, still 3Delight is not enough. Unity 5 shows the facial morphs correctly without any problem, but the beard is just following the jaw and head transitions, no morphs. I have tried the Unshaven one (M5) and two, and all you wrote here and in the other discussion you linked. Oh, and I am using Genesis 2 figures.

    Edit: Oh, and Beard is animating alone, without the Gen2 figure. But still not working in Unity, nor with or without the character.

    Edit2: It is animating, but not the visemes... I have tried to make lipsync DMC files, but it never founds the defined channels. The M5 Beard have the same morph names as your Genesis2 DMC file (I have found that in another discussion), so I have tried to replace the "head:1" lines with "M5BaseBeard:1", still not working :/

    Edit3: I think, this is the problem:

     

    property-g2m.PNG
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    property-unsh2.PNG
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    Post edited by VargaPD on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,929

    I do not use Unity though I have it so unsure what to do there, I only know what I do for iClone I am afraid

    honestly a fibermesh beard is way too highpoly for a game engine anyway

    you would be better off with a facial beard morph on the figure and texture, sadly I do not know of any for Genesis 2 but you could make your own in a modeling software and image editor

  • VargaPDVargaPD Posts: 26

    Well, the polycount doesn't matter. I don't need realtime rendering, but still, a ten minute long rendering per frame still better than a 10 hour long. I just want it to move when I export it into an fbx...

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