What are the primary file folder names? ... 3rd party OBJs? (new Hunter's Moon question)

WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 3,401
edited November 2021 in The Commons

So sick of vanity and unrecognizable or unfindable files ... What are the primary file folder names for the Runtime content? Daz content is fairly self-explanatory, but I don't just use Daz content. Is it just the categories I see in the viewport? I'd like to streamline my folders so I can actually find content when I want it rather than by happy accident. So I plan to do some filing and organizing, but I don't want to inadvertently screw stuff up by moving the wrong folders. 

For example ... I know the Runtime folder NEEDS Libraries>Character for figure files and Libraries>Props and Libraries>Pose ... but beyond those, what other files should I never move in the runtime folder?

Post edited by WillowRaven on
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  • WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 3,401

    thanks :)

  • Peter WadePeter Wade Posts: 1,468

    The directory names for things that show up in the library are Camera, Character, Face, Hair, Hand, Light, Materials, Pose, Props, Scene 

    You have to be careful about which have an s on the end and which don't  (I'm not actually sure about Scene, it doesn't get used much).

    You may find other directories under Libraries. A lot of content creators put morphs in Libraries\Morphs but I don't think this an official Poser directory.

    Current versions of Poser aren't fussy about what type of content goes in which directory as long as it is one of the standard ones. I usually move material and mat pose files for clothes and figures to sub-direcories of the item they apply to.

    Don't move anything in the Geometries or Textures directorties or things will stop working. Anything outside of the 10 directories listed above may be referenced by a path name in the content files, and doesn't affect where items are shown in the library anyway.

     

     

  • WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 3,401

    Very helpful ... I'm amazed how many things need to be filed correctly.

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 5,995

    WillowRaven said:

    So sick of vanity and unrecognizable or unfindable files ... What are the primary file folder names for the Runtime content? Daz content is fairly self-explanatory, but I don't just use Daz content. Is it just the categories I see in the viewport? I'd like to streamline my folders so I can actually find content when I want it rather than by happy accident. So I plan to do some filing and organizing, but I don't want to inadvertently screw stuff up by moving the wrong folders. 

    For example ... I know the Runtime folder NEEDS Libraries>Character for figure files and Libraries>Props and Libraries>Pose ... but beyond those, what other files should I never move in the runtime folder?

    Never move the textures. 

  • BejaymacBejaymac Posts: 1,569

    Studio doesn't really care where the Poser format files are located, as an example if you have a product with CR2 clothing, HR2 hair, PP2 props and PZ2 materials, then you can shove the lot into one folder under "Libraries/Character" and DS will see them.

    You do have to be carefull with some products, some have Poser Binary Morph files in with the CR2, and some others have the OBJ in there as well, so moving those means you will need to edit the pathway in the CR2 to point to the new location of the PMD and/or OBJ file.

  • Poser has been able to read files from the "wrong" library for several versions now, it just can't save them there (as far as I know).

  • WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 3,401

    Bejaymac said:

    Studio doesn't really care where the Poser format files are located, as an example if you have a product with CR2 clothing, HR2 hair, PP2 props and PZ2 materials, then you can shove the lot into one folder under "Libraries/Character" and DS will see them.

    You do have to be carefull with some products, some have Poser Binary Morph files in with the CR2, and some others have the OBJ in there as well, so moving those means you will need to edit the pathway in the CR2 to point to the new location of the PMD and/or OBJ file.

    Sooo ... since I read that obj files should remain in the Geometries folder, does that mean pmd files that are found just floating around in the runtime folder (not in the three main directories of geometries, libraries, and textures), should go in geometries like the objs?

  • Peter WadePeter Wade Posts: 1,468

    WillowRaven said:

    Bejaymac said:

    Studio doesn't really care where the Poser format files are located, as an example if you have a product with CR2 clothing, HR2 hair, PP2 props and PZ2 materials, then you can shove the lot into one folder under "Libraries/Character" and DS will see them.

    You do have to be carefull with some products, some have Poser Binary Morph files in with the CR2, and some others have the OBJ in there as well, so moving those means you will need to edit the pathway in the CR2 to point to the new location of the PMD and/or OBJ file.

    Sooo ... since I read that obj files should remain in the Geometries folder, does that mean pmd files that are found just floating around in the runtime folder (not in the three main directories of geometries, libraries, and textures), should go in geometries like the objs?

    The problem with things floating around outside of the standard directories is that content creators sometimes override the standard locations. If they use a full pathname for an obj file or a texture then Studio or Poser will expect to find it at that exact location. This doesn't happen very often these days. I've never seen Daz do this. Content Paradise used to do it a lot, they had obj files in with the .cr2 files, sometimes textures as well. If you see an .obj outside of Geometries or a texture outside of Textures then it almost certainly is being used with a full pathname and moving it will break something.

    If you don't want to get involved in editing files to change pathnames then it's best to leave all .obj, .pmd and texture files where they are. The rule I follow is content files (.cr2, .pp2 etc) are usually moveable without problems. Anything else should stay where it is. The "anything else" files aren't shown in the library so I don't really care where they are. I only resort to editing content files when I have something like .obj or texture files in the same directory as the .cr2 and I want to move the .cr2

  • WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 3,401
    edited October 2021

    What do I do with cgtrader or freebie files not already set up in daz or poser format?

    For example ... I bought several crab models for cgtrader and the file contains no runtime or content set up. It's just one folder with the following files:

    crab-obj.mtl

    crab-obj.obj

    three jpegs intended for texturing or reference of textures

    TinCan-obj,mtl

    Tin-Can.obj

     

    Should I organize or place these in specific spots?

    Post edited by WillowRaven on
  • WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 3,401
    edited October 2021

    I seem to have two 'geometry' folders ... one under 'runtime' and one not ... is the 'geometries' folder not under 'runtime' a misfiled file or does the Daz content have its own? Should I drop everything in it into the runtime>geometries folder?

    Post edited by WillowRaven on
  • Peter WadePeter Wade Posts: 1,468

    WillowRaven said:

    What do I do with cgtrader or freebie files not already set up in daz or poser format?

    For example ... I bought several crab models for cgtrader and the file contains no runtime or content set up. It's just one folder with the following files:

    crab-obj.mtl

    crab-obj.obj

    three jpegs intended for texturing or reference of textures

    TinCan-obj,mtl

    Tin-Can.obj

     

    Should I organize or place these in specific spots?

    It doesn't matter where you put them. You'll have to use import from the file menu to import them. This doesn't have a standard directory, you have to use the file requestor to find your file. I think you need to keep the .obj, .mtl  and .jpg files in the same directory.

     

  • WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 3,401

    Peter Wade said:

    WillowRaven said:

    What do I do with cgtrader or freebie files not already set up in daz or poser format?

    For example ... I bought several crab models for cgtrader and the file contains no runtime or content set up. It's just one folder with the following files:

    crab-obj.mtl

    crab-obj.obj

    three jpegs intended for texturing or reference of textures

    TinCan-obj,mtl

    Tin-Can.obj

     

    Should I organize or place these in specific spots?

    It doesn't matter where you put them. You'll have to use import from the file menu to import them. This doesn't have a standard directory, you have to use the file requestor to find your file. I think you need to keep the .obj, .mtl  and .jpg files in the same directory.

    Ugh! A third directory ... lol. As it is, I've already got a rendo product waiting in my cart that combines poser files with the daz content library so I only need look in one spot for my content. So much of what I've collected over the last decade is just lost in my content folder. Just money and time wasted if I can't find it later. 

    So once I import it, how do I use the accompanying files, like materials? And once I do, do I export it and re-save it somehow so it's in 'regular directories later? How do I turn it into a more 'normal' file for later? 

  • lorraineopualorraineopua Posts: 371
    edited October 2021

     

    WillowRaven said:

    Peter Wade said:

    WillowRaven said:

    What do I do with cgtrader or freebie files not already set up in d

    az or poser format?

    For example ... I bought several crab models for cgtrader and the file contains no runtime or content set up. It's just one folder with the following files:

    crab-obj.mtl

    crab-obj.obj

    three jpegs intended for texturing or reference of textures

    TinCan-obj,mtl

    Tin-Can.obj

     

    Should I organize or place these in specific spots?

    It doesn't matter where you put them. You'll have to use import from the file menu to import them. This doesn't have a standard directory, you have to use the file requestor to find your file. I think you need to keep the .obj, .mtl  and .jpg files in the same directory.

    Ugh! A third directory ... lol. As it is, I've already got a rendo product waiting in my cart that combines poser files with the daz content library so I only need look in one spot for my content. So much of what I've collected over the last decade is just lost in my content folder. Just money and time wasted if I can't find it later. 

    So once I import it, how do I use the accompanying files, like materials? And once I do, do I export it and re-save it somehow so it's in 'regular directories later? How do I turn it into a more 'normal' file for later? 

    I keep all my object files (obj, blend, dae, fbx etc) in an ‘Objects’ folder outside my library. I convert blend and fbx in Blender and save to the original folder as either dae or obj depending on whether they have more than one object in them, dae for multiples, obj for singles. I then import them into Studio, apply the textures if necessary and save as scenes assets into my library. 

    Post edited by lorraineopua on
  • Peter Wade said:

    WillowRaven said:

    What do I do with cgtrader or freebie files not already set up in daz or poser format?

    For example ... I bought several crab models for cgtrader and the file contains no runtime or content set up. It's just one folder with the following files:

    crab-obj.mtl

    crab-obj.obj

    three jpegs intended for texturing or reference of textures

    TinCan-obj,mtl

    Tin-Can.obj

     

    Should I organize or place these in specific spots?

    It doesn't matter where you put them. You'll have to use import from the file menu to import them. This doesn't have a standard directory, you have to use the file requestor to find your file. I think you need to keep the .obj, .mtl  and .jpg files in the same directory.

    They will appear in the Content  Library under other Import Formats if placed in a folder that is mapped for Other Import Formats in Content Directory manager (or by right-click on the header and selecting the add directory option)

  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 4,379

    There is an Other option in DS's Content Directory Manager.

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 5,917

    You can create your own Freebies folder or Rendo folder or Presets folders for items you’ve saved. For the crab product you probably have to import the obj and possibly attach the textures yourself to the diffuse slot and any other slots you may want for iRay shading then save the whole thing as a scene subset.

  • PixelSploitingPixelSploiting Posts: 293
    edited October 2021

    Imported objects, provided you intend to use them often, can be saved as Support Asset > Figure/Prop Asset.

    It'll create regular .duf file for them.

     

     I'm only going to add that PAs naming their geometry/texture folders after themselves is not vanity but a way of preventing assets being overriden by other assets with same names. What if few PAs are making bikinis and naming it bikinis with main diffuses being named bikinis? Content creator names are unique.

    Post edited by PixelSploiting on
  • Peter WadePeter Wade Posts: 1,468

    In Studio you can save your loaded object as a scene subset or as a figure/prop asset from the support asset sub-menu. Scene subset lets you save it anywhere, it can be in your library if you want it.

    In Poser you can save it as a prop in your props library.

    With all these methods the saved object expects to find the texture files in the same location they were when you loaded the .obj file. You can change this by moving the textures then going into the surfaces tab in Studio or the material room in Poser, changing the maps and re-saving the object.

    Scene subset and poser prop files both have the geomery embedded in the saved file so there ir no further need for the .obj file. I've looked at the .duf created by figure/prop asset and I can't work out what it's doing with the geometry.

     

     

  • Peter Wade said:

    In Studio you can save your loaded object as a scene subset or as a figure/prop asset from the support asset sub-menu. Scene subset lets you save it anywhere, it can be in your library if you want it.

    In Poser you can save it as a prop in your props library.

    With all these methods the saved object expects to find the texture files in the same location they were when you loaded the .obj file. You can change this by moving the textures then going into the surfaces tab in Studio or the material room in Poser, changing the maps and re-saving the object.

    Scene subset and poser prop files both have the geomery embedded in the saved file so there ir no further need for the .obj file. I've looked at the .duf created by figure/prop asset and I can't work out what it's doing with the geometry.

    If the poser prop file has its geometry embedded in it, it was not saved according to protocols.

    If D/S figure or prop files are created from .obj files, then those .obj files are no longer required  However some vendors still supply them for use in other programs.

  • McGyverMcGyver Posts: 5,319

    Catherine3678ab said:

    If the poser prop file has its geometry embedded in it, it was not saved according to protocols.

    But doesn't Poser embed the geometry regardless?... Like as far as I know, there is no opinion to not do that... I test all my models that I make into PP2s on separate computers and they seem to work fine without the OBJ files... I thought the point of the PP2 was to embed the geometry, hierarchy information, texture settings, etc. in one file that Poser can easily read... what is the correct protocol?

  • HavosHavos Posts: 4,771
    edited October 2021

    McGyver said:

    Catherine3678ab said:

    If the poser prop file has its geometry embedded in it, it was not saved according to protocols.

    But doesn't Poser embed the geometry regardless?... Like as far as I know, there is no opinion to not do that... I test all my models that I make into PP2s on separate computers and they seem to work fine without the OBJ files... I thought the point of the PP2 was to embed the geometry, hierarchy information, texture settings, etc. in one file that Poser can easily read... what is the correct protocol?

    Whilst what you state will work, the issue is that if the pp2 is included in a scene then that too would have to include the geometry as well, and quickly the scene file will start to bloat. That is why the poser format allowed the geometry to be saved in a separate obj file, so that the main info is not copied each time the prop is used.

    DS suffers the same problems when geometry data gets stuffed into duf files, when ideally it should be in a separate dsf file.

    Post edited by Havos on
  • WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 3,401

    I want FEWER content tabs/libraries, not more, lol ... When I have a deadline, I don't want to have to look in 20 different places just to find all the crabs I bought. Daz directory, Poser figures, Poser props, and not another section for objs bought from non-poser/daz creates ... all that fumbling around looking for stuff that I will later forget that I even bought is craziness. I just want to make my workflow a little more streamlined.

  • Peter WadePeter Wade Posts: 1,468

    WillowRaven said:

    I want FEWER content tabs/libraries, not more, lol ... When I have a deadline, I don't want to have to look in 20 different places just to find all the crabs I bought. Daz directory, Poser figures, Poser props, and not another section for objs bought from non-poser/daz creates ... all that fumbling around looking for stuff that I will later forget that I even bought is craziness. I just want to make my workflow a little more streamlined.

    My approach to this is categories. You can create your own categories and put Studio and Poser stuff in them, you don't have to move anything in the library or the runtime. Setting it up is a lot of work if you have a large collection of stuff but once you've done it you just have to add new stuff as you get it.

  • McGyverMcGyver Posts: 5,319
    edited October 2021

    Havos said:

    McGyver said:

    Catherine3678ab said:

    If the poser prop file has its geometry embedded in it, it was not saved according to protocols.

    But doesn't Poser embed the geometry regardless?... Like as far as I know, there is no opinion to not do that... I test all my models that I make into PP2s on separate computers and they seem to work fine without the OBJ files... I thought the point of the PP2 was to embed the geometry, hierarchy information, texture settings, etc. in one file that Poser can easily read... what is the correct protocol?

    Whilst what you state will work, the issue is that if the pp2 is included in a scene then that too would have to include the geometry as well, and quickly the scene file will start to bloat. That is why the poser format allowed the geometry to be saved in a separate obj file, so that the main info is not copied each time the prop is used.

    DS suffers the same problems when geometry data gets stuffed into duf files, when ideally it should be in a separate dsf file.

    How do you do that?

    In Poser the way you create a PP2 is to click the little "+" at the bottom of the Props library window... that brings up this window...

    Aside from the window where you can chose the subset geometry, there is no other option that I can see.
    I looked everywhere in Poser and can't find anything that remotely seems to offer this option... Googling the topic was not enlightening either.

    Is there some other way to create a PP2 in Poser that includes an option for the correct protocol?

    Unless I'm not understanding what embedding the geometry means... I'm assuming it means the PP2 contains the OBJ data you imported into Poser to make the PP2 from... ?

    Any clarification on this topic would be greatly appreciated.

     

    Post edited by McGyver on
  • DaremoK3DaremoK3 Posts: 709

    McGyver,

    Embedding the OBJ geometry into a PP2 when creating the PP2 by saving it to the library is the protocol.

    Going all the way back to Poser 4 we had to hack the PP2, extract the OBJ data, and create pointers/paths to where we stored the OBJ for the instance calls.

    Then someone like Kuroyama (name might not be exact), who had a complete CR2 codebase reference cheat-sheets for hacking the files, and later created the PMD script, created a script to do the work for us.  Like I said, it was either him, or someone like him (I will check my files on my workbox tomorrow for confirmation).

    Having 100 identical props loaded from the library with calls to one object in memory as opposed to all those props loaded as 100 props is a huge resource saver.

    Does this help clear things up for you (or anyone else interested)?

  • McGyverMcGyver Posts: 5,319

    DaremoK3 said:

    McGyver,

    Embedding the OBJ geometry into a PP2 when creating the PP2 by saving it to the library is the protocol.

    Going all the way back to Poser 4 we had to hack the PP2, extract the OBJ data, and create pointers/paths to where we stored the OBJ for the instance calls.

    Then someone like Kuroyama (name might not be exact), who had a complete CR2 codebase reference cheat-sheets for hacking the files, and later created the PMD script, created a script to do the work for us.  Like I said, it was either him, or someone like him (I will check my files on my workbox tomorrow for confirmation).

    Having 100 identical props loaded from the library with calls to one object in memory as opposed to all those props loaded as 100 props is a huge resource saver.

    Does this help clear things up for you (or anyone else interested)?

    Yes, thank you.

  • DaremoK3DaremoK3 Posts: 709
    edited October 2021

    Just to follow up on my previous post...

    First, my apologies; Trying to remember things going back over a decade or two is sometimes foggy.

    It wasn't Kuroyume (correct name this time) from Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone site, who created the PMD Java app MorphExchange.

    It wasn't even a script.  It was Geometry Stripper by John Hoagland, and wasn't created as far back as I thought.  It was created in 2008 when I was using Poser 4 and Poser 6, but still heavily using only P4.

    It seems to no longer be available, although, diving deep into the rabbit hole, I found a download page for it over at Vanishing Point, but the download does not seem to be available on the server.  One might be able to get a hold of JH to try to get a copy, if so inclined.

    Here is JH's original hand-do (hack) tutorial which I used to follow to create my unembedded geometry PP2's for anyone interested :

    http://www.cocs.com/poser/props2.htm

    Also, apparently NetherWorks also created a Poser script (purchased product ?) which does the same.  A good read on the subject can be found here :

    https://community.hivewire3d.com/threads/where-should-poser-geometry-files-go-best-practices.1011/page-4

     

    Post edited by DaremoK3 on
  • WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 3,401

    Sooo ... I can create one directory where all poser and Daz and 3rd-party content can be organized?

  • McGyver said:

    DaremoK3 said:

    McGyver,

    Embedding the OBJ geometry into a PP2 when creating the PP2 by saving it to the library is the protocol.

    Going all the way back to Poser 4 we had to hack the PP2, extract the OBJ data, and create pointers/paths to where we stored the OBJ for the instance calls.

    Then someone like Kuroyama (name might not be exact), who had a complete CR2 codebase reference cheat-sheets for hacking the files, and later created the PMD script, created a script to do the work for us.  Like I said, it was either him, or someone like him (I will check my files on my workbox tomorrow for confirmation).

    Having 100 identical props loaded from the library with calls to one object in memory as opposed to all those props loaded as 100 props is a huge resource saver.

    Does this help clear things up for you (or anyone else interested)?

    Yes, thank you.

    This is not going to be helpful for use in Poser, but once upon a time it was the only way we could make .pp2 files from D/S - I do not know if it still works in D/S4.15 'cause D/S now can make its own prop files. 

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/59598/make-poser-props-pp2exporter-by-duke533-now-works-in-ds4-8   {go to the download page}

    IF I recall correctly, I think we had to have the .obj file first nestled into the Geometries subfolder before running this script. Load the .obj from that location, add some texture [not shaders], and then run the script.

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