Just Because I Can. STUPID THREAD III

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Comments

  • Miss Bad WolfMiss Bad Wolf Posts: 20,858
    edited December 1969

    If I was going to say anyone is ugly, I would say it is Bob the Tomato. For some reason he looks like a tomato, but with a face.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Ivy said:
    AtticAnne said:
    Ivy said:
    I posted that picture daz removed on Renderosiy.com and i tired to placed a content advisory on it .. funny thing though Rendo didn't think it needed advisory so they removed it..lol .. MAYBE because NO PRIVATE parts were SHOWING AT ALL!.

    I think Daz has gone the way of the puritan if it ain't got clothes they it ain't gonna allowed it to be posted. period ...lol
    anyway if daz Don't remove this link i have it posted at renderosity.com where they removed my content warning...lol

    So just in case. " Link Content Advisory Warning" just in case someone is sensitive to people hugging nekked :)
    http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2371542

    The forum doesn't have nudity tags so until they do you can't post nudes. It's not puritan, it's just a the current situation. And that picture should have a nudity tag since they ARE nude. I certainly would consider them nude if it popped up on my screen when I'm in the office or at a coffee shop.

    Or your young (7) grandchild is in the room.

    Gosh your so right. and you know I hope those same parent have their parental controls set good for Youtube and google-plus, yahoo renderousity, facebook & the DisneyTV because heaven to besty those (7) Grand children see someone sitting naked in a tub covered up in soap bubbles, or someones gets pants-ed. ..lol To me as a Artist that is so "Puritan" thinking.

    I don't know about you all. But I seen way more indecent graphics on Teen TV shows & cartoons.
    BTW when I say puritan, I meant if anything is naked, then no matter what graphic is posted its indecent by Daz TOS standards. even thought my graphics shows naked people nothing was showing at all. no buttocks no nipples no breast no penis, no nothing but skin. in a loving embrace, which is natural. I think some people got their puritan on to tight.lol
    I seen more flesh and suggestive poses with character wearing bikini's, than what i posted. now if i threw on some sexy panties like these it wouldn't not be a problem even though to me its more a fetish and should be removed by tos because some cross dresser might get horny...lol

    The world is messed up when we artist have to be a shamed of naked bodies, ha ha ha that is sooo 5th century "Puritan" thinking to me because pagans love naked. ( throws off clothes dances around bon-fire.) La, La La , La la! Naked and free.Just look at my DA account Ivy, almost all that was allowed before the FLAGS died. But NOOOO!! We still have no flags. And on top of that I was told that when we do get rating FLAG's again the TOS will still be much stricter than the old site. 99% of my work is PG18 (playboy tame) But I'm stuck off site and might have to stay off site. Not being able to share my stuff freely with the people I care to hang around with the most has really put a damper on my creativity.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...stupid notification bot broke.

    This new site software sill hasn't cured several long running ills.

    I'm with Spyro on this. I don't even bother with them anymore. I've got to the point I tell it to NOT Notify me 99% of the time. At least then everything is the same. No Notices for nothing.
  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 5,020
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    Ivy said:
    AtticAnne said:
    Ivy said:
    I posted that picture daz removed on Renderosiy.com and i tired to placed a content advisory on it .. funny thing though Rendo didn't think it needed advisory so they removed it..lol .. MAYBE because NO PRIVATE parts were SHOWING AT ALL!.

    I think Daz has gone the way of the puritan if it ain't got clothes they it ain't gonna allowed it to be posted. period ...lol
    anyway if daz Don't remove this link i have it posted at renderosity.com where they removed my content warning...lol

    So just in case. " Link Content Advisory Warning" just in case someone is sensitive to people hugging nekked :)
    http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2371542

    The forum doesn't have nudity tags so until they do you can't post nudes. It's not puritan, it's just a the current situation. And that picture should have a nudity tag since they ARE nude. I certainly would consider them nude if it popped up on my screen when I'm in the office or at a coffee shop.

    Or your young (7) grandchild is in the room.

    Gosh your so right. and you know I hope those same parent have their parental controls set good for Youtube and google-plus, yahoo renderousity, facebook & the DisneyTV because heaven to besty those (7) Grand children see someone sitting naked in a tub covered up in soap bubbles, or someones gets pants-ed. ..lol To me as a Artist that is so "Puritan" thinking.

    I don't know about you all. But I seen way more indecent graphics on Teen TV shows & cartoons.
    BTW when I say puritan, I meant if anything is naked, then no matter what graphic is posted its indecent by Daz TOS standards. even thought my graphics shows naked people nothing was showing at all. no buttocks no nipples no breast no penis, no nothing but skin. in a loving embrace, which is natural. I think some people got their puritan on to tight.lol
    I seen more flesh and suggestive poses with character wearing bikini's, than what i posted. now if i threw on some sexy panties like these it wouldn't not be a problem even though to me its more a fetish and should be removed by tos because some cross dresser might get horny...lol

    The world is messed up when we artist have to be a shamed of naked bodies, ha ha ha that is sooo 5th century "Puritan" thinking to me because pagans love naked. ( throws off clothes dances around bon-fire.) La, La La , La la! Naked and free.Just look at my DA account Ivy, almost all that was allowed before the FLAGS died. But NOOOO!! We still have no flags. And on top of that I was told that when we do get rating FLAG's again the TOS will still be much stricter than the old site. 99% of my work is PG18 (playboy tame) But I'm stuck off site and might have to stay off site. Not being able to share my stuff freely with the people I care to hang around with the most has really put a damper on my creativity.

    If they are going to restrict image posts more than deviant art does (as you described PG 18 playboy tame not the R or X rated stuff cos that is designed to be porn not art) then much of the art industry even the historical famous works will be out of the question. If they want to have even stricter TOS on the forums, then they should designate an 18+ forum. Art has always had a strong connection with nudity (again so I a clear 'I am NOT talking about the pornographic / erotic explicit stuff)

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 5,020
    edited December 1969

    Spyro said:
    I came accross this image, when searching for image reference of Elven Arrow.


    My thoughts... Legolas would kill you before you had a chance to scream "Peeta!"

    And I'm sorry Russel Crow, but Orlando would kill you too. Nothing to do with the actors, just that Legolas would flog Russel's Robin Hood.

    Not sure how old Legolas is, but Katniss is just a teen. It is like comparing a high school football player with a NFL star. The high schooler may be a great player but the NFL star had more years of practice.

    FYI - I did not make this image. I came across it and laughed at how stupid it was. Lol!

  • IvyIvy Posts: 5,169
    edited December 1969

    Spyro said:
    My arrow head SUCCEEDED!

    High Poly and neat!! And NO boolean used (If I did, I'd loose all the verts)

    good start spyro :) what you going to use for texture for the napping :)

  • IvyIvy Posts: 5,169
    edited December 1969

    tjohn said:
    New rule: No nekkid dancing in stupid thread. I have a vivid imagination and now even though it's a pleasant mental image I can't think about anything else!

    that's funny..lol well it was the full harvest moon last night. dancing naked around the bon fire and drinking mead until we get stupid is what pagans do best :)

  • IvyIvy Posts: 5,169
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    Ivy said:
    AtticAnne said:
    Ivy said:
    I posted that picture daz removed on Renderosiy.com and i tired to placed a content advisory on it .. funny thing though Rendo didn't think it needed advisory so they removed it..lol .. MAYBE because NO PRIVATE parts were SHOWING AT ALL!.

    I think Daz has gone the way of the puritan if it ain't got clothes they it ain't gonna allowed it to be posted. period ...lol
    anyway if daz Don't remove this link i have it posted at renderosity.com where they removed my content warning...lol

    So just in case. " Link Content Advisory Warning" just in case someone is sensitive to people hugging nekked :)
    http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2371542

    The forum doesn't have nudity tags so until they do you can't post nudes. It's not puritan, it's just a the current situation. And that picture should have a nudity tag since they ARE nude. I certainly would consider them nude if it popped up on my screen when I'm in the office or at a coffee shop.

    Or your young (7) grandchild is in the room.

    Gosh your so right. and you know I hope those same parent have their parental controls set good for Youtube and google-plus, yahoo renderousity, facebook & the DisneyTV because heaven to besty those (7) Grand children see someone sitting naked in a tub covered up in soap bubbles, or someones gets pants-ed. ..lol To me as a Artist that is so "Puritan" thinking.

    I don't know about you all. But I seen way more indecent graphics on Teen TV shows & cartoons.
    BTW when I say puritan, I meant if anything is naked, then no matter what graphic is posted its indecent by Daz TOS standards. even thought my graphics shows naked people nothing was showing at all. no buttocks no nipples no breast no penis, no nothing but skin. in a loving embrace, which is natural. I think some people got their puritan on to tight.lol
    I seen more flesh and suggestive poses with character wearing bikini's, than what i posted. now if i threw on some sexy panties like these it wouldn't not be a problem even though to me its more a fetish and should be removed by tos because some cross dresser might get horny...lol

    The world is messed up when we artist have to be a shamed of naked bodies, ha ha ha that is sooo 5th century "Puritan" thinking to me because pagans love naked. ( throws off clothes dances around bon-fire.) La, La La , La la! Naked and free.Just look at my DA account Ivy, almost all that was allowed before the FLAGS died. But NOOOO!! We still have no flags. And on top of that I was told that when we do get rating FLAG's again the TOS will still be much stricter than the old site. 99% of my work is PG18 (playboy tame) But I'm stuck off site and might have to stay off site. Not being able to share my stuff freely with the people I care to hang around with the most has really put a damper on my creativity.

    I know what you mean,
    There is one work around Jaderail post it to a site like renderosity that has content advisory for there galleries and then post the link here. :) that way everyone is happy :)

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Ivy I know all about the Links and I can link to my DA stuff because it is filtered. Sypro That's what I try to do, Nudes as art, I studied them long enough in my years of pen and ink days. What I'm trying to point out is that almost my full DA gallery was once HOSTED here at Daz3D when we had flags. I need the flags to come back so I can enjoy Daz3D like I did in the past.

  • IvyIvy Posts: 5,169
    edited December 1969

    Spyro said:
    Jaderail said:
    Ivy said:
    AtticAnne said:
    Ivy said:
    I posted that picture daz removed on Renderosiy.com and i tired to placed a content advisory on it .. funny thing though Rendo didn't think it needed advisory so they removed it..lol .. MAYBE because NO PRIVATE parts were SHOWING AT ALL!.

    I think Daz has gone the way of the puritan if it ain't got clothes they it ain't gonna allowed it to be posted. period ...lol
    anyway if daz Don't remove this link i have it posted at renderosity.com where they removed my content warning...lol

    So just in case. " Link Content Advisory Warning" just in case someone is sensitive to people hugging nekked :)
    http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2371542

    The forum doesn't have nudity tags so until they do you can't post nudes. It's not puritan, it's just a the current situation. And that picture should have a nudity tag since they ARE nude. I certainly would consider them nude if it popped up on my screen when I'm in the office or at a coffee shop.

    Or your young (7) grandchild is in the room.

    Gosh your so right. and you know I hope those same parent have their parental controls set good for Youtube and google-plus, yahoo renderousity, facebook & the DisneyTV because heaven to besty those (7) Grand children see someone sitting naked in a tub covered up in soap bubbles, or someones gets pants-ed. ..lol To me as a Artist that is so "Puritan" thinking.

    I don't know about you all. But I seen way more indecent graphics on Teen TV shows & cartoons.
    BTW when I say puritan, I meant if anything is naked, then no matter what graphic is posted its indecent by Daz TOS standards. even thought my graphics shows naked people nothing was showing at all. no buttocks no nipples no breast no penis, no nothing but skin. in a loving embrace, which is natural. I think some people got their puritan on to tight.lol
    I seen more flesh and suggestive poses with character wearing bikini's, than what i posted. now if i threw on some sexy panties like these it wouldn't not be a problem even though to me its more a fetish and should be removed by tos because some cross dresser might get horny...lol

    The world is messed up when we artist have to be a shamed of naked bodies, ha ha ha that is sooo 5th century "Puritan" thinking to me because pagans love naked. ( throws off clothes dances around bon-fire.) La, La La , La la! Naked and free.Just look at my DA account Ivy, almost all that was allowed before the FLAGS died. But NOOOO!! We still have no flags. And on top of that I was told that when we do get rating FLAG's again the TOS will still be much stricter than the old site. 99% of my work is PG18 (playboy tame) But I'm stuck off site and might have to stay off site. Not being able to share my stuff freely with the people I care to hang around with the most has really put a damper on my creativity.

    If they are going to restrict image posts more than deviant art does (as you described PG 18 playboy tame not the R or X rated stuff cos that is designed to be porn not art) then much of the art industry even the historical famous works will be out of the question. If they want to have even stricter TOS on the forums, then they should designate an 18+ forum. Art has always had a strong connection with nudity (again so I a clear 'I am NOT talking about the pornographic / erotic explicit stuff)

    I agree with you. I think even Micheal Angilo would be kicked out by TOS for his his dirty painters mind ,for painting all those Naked women on the church - Sistine chapel's ceiling..lol

    next thing you know they will be selling character models gentiles areas blacked out,
    Honestly how can you be a art site sell naked character models and not allow Naked art to be posted. in a age restricted area. lol art with naked charters done tastefully can be a beautiful thing.

  • Miss Bad WolfMiss Bad Wolf Posts: 20,858
    edited December 1969

    I feel stupid. I only managed to work two weeks and a day before getting fired.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 30,260
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    Ivy I know all about the Links and I can link to my DA stuff because it is filtered. Sypro That's what I try to do, Nudes as art, I studied them long enough in my years of pen and ink days. What I'm trying to point out is that almost my full DA gallery was once HOSTED here at Daz3D when we had flags. I need the flags to come back so I can enjoy Daz3D like I did in the past.


    What sort of flags you need, here is a few flags, or you could even use the flag alphabet and spell out your own. That would be stupid, as it wouldn't help with your problem.
    Nautical_Flags_Alphabet_border.jpg
    400 x 310 - 43K
    Flags.jpg
    552 x 800 - 137K
  • IvyIvy Posts: 5,169
    edited December 1969

    I feel stupid. I only managed to work two weeks and a day before getting fired.

    awe . "give miss bad wolf a hug"

    what is stupid is I don't have to worry about my job being replaced by computers..
    computers are to smart to work for the wage they are paying me.

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 5,020
    edited December 1969

    @ivy - if not for the flags then there should be an adults only forum sor that works like jaderail can be viewed. I have never attended a qualification course of art an not seen nudity. To learn and appreciate the human anatomy it is explored in art and has been since like ever. But I'm sure Daz knows all this. I just hope they do something about it, its not some dark side of art, it's a very wide spread and acceptable subject of traditional an fine arts.

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 5,020
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    Jaderail said:
    Ivy I know all about the Links and I can link to my DA stuff because it is filtered. Sypro That's what I try to do, Nudes as art, I studied them long enough in my years of pen and ink days. What I'm trying to point out is that almost my full DA gallery was once HOSTED here at Daz3D when we had flags. I need the flags to come back so I can enjoy Daz3D like I did in the past.


    What sort of flags you need, here is a few flags, or you could even use the flag alphabet and spell out your own. That would be stupid, as it wouldn't help with your problem.

    Can never have too many flags :P I used to have a poster with the worlds flags!

  • IvyIvy Posts: 5,169
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    Jaderail said:
    Ivy I know all about the Links and I can link to my DA stuff because it is filtered. Sypro That's what I try to do, Nudes as art, I studied them long enough in my years of pen and ink days. What I'm trying to point out is that almost my full DA gallery was once HOSTED here at Daz3D when we had flags. I need the flags to come back so I can enjoy Daz3D like I did in the past.


    What sort of flags you need, here is a few flags, or you could even use the flag alphabet and spell out your own. That would be stupid, as it wouldn't help with your problem.

    I don't see a puritan flag in that bunch chohole:) shouldn't that be waved up high here in this forum :D

    puritan flags history for the common wealth
    http://www.clockworksky.net/puritan_world/ah_pw_world_nc.html

    puritan_flag_old.png
    360 x 216 - 2K
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 30,260
    edited December 1969

    The problem in the forums at the moment is not driven by puritanism, but merely by the lack of content advisory filters. Sites like DA, Renderosity, RDNA and Renderotica as well as this site, require members to enter their birthdate when they open an account, and underage members automatically have filters applied which stop them from viewing images and other content deemed to be inappropriate for their age group. Also there are people who will browse forums at work, and would be severly castigated if they were seen to be viewing the type of image at work. So at the moment we are applying the SAFE for Work argument, as checked by someone who does in fact use the forums whilst at work.

    As Jaderail has already said, prior to the new forums coming on line his work was always posted in the DAZ 3D forums. Most people are making the best of the restrictions. OK they are not happy about the restrictions but they are working with it, knowing that DAZ 3D are searching for a suitable plug in that will restore the facility of content advisory filters to the forums, instead of trying to sneak stuff past the current TOS restrictions.

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 5,020
    edited December 1969

    Well that is understandable :) and lucky I a good boy cos I swear there is a club swinging going on in that statement lmao! I hope that soon we can see artists like jaderail really make full use of the forums again :cheese:

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 5,020
    edited December 1969

    On a stupid note ... My phone randomly tells me that submitting information here in the forums is not secure and that I should be aware that personal details should only be used cautiously. Oh! I see ... Like I wasn't aware that I was posting in a forum and that people can read it !

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 30,260
    edited December 1969

    I actually have renders that I am not allowed to post in the forums at the moment, it affects us all.

    And sometimes the images we have to say No to are superb images, which makes it worse,

    It's a stupid situation, but we are stuck with it for now.

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 5,020
    edited December 1969

    Have you upgraded your poser program yet? Now that you got a new pc. That's so exciting for you, I can't wait to go and buy a decent 3d practical computer! Has to be custom made so I'm doin some home work on it. The forums are a great place to learn it sometimes. Do you use Daz at all cho? Seems as though it's free and there be a growing gen 5 family.

  • atticanneatticanne Posts: 3,009
    edited December 1969

    Oh, no, MBW. That's terrible. Take a deep breath and keep thinking positive thoughts.

  • SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,942
    edited December 1969

    You know what would be Stupid?

    Getting someone into trouble because of ignoring common courtesy rules laid down.

    I come from a place where nudity is 100% guaranteed to be even less of a taboo; before age of six, I had seen my whole extended family naked, and a slew of strangers, and there's nothing weird in it in my neck of woods -- sauna is a great equalizer. Human bodies in all conditions, stages of life, shapes, so on. Ho-hum.

    And even so, there's time and place where you do it. For reasons of hygiene, you don't do it in public, where you sit and smear your butt all over the place, or heaven forbid, food is served. For reasons of religious considerations, you don't do it in church, unless the church is keen on that. And so on.

    It is unfortunate that the rest of the world doesn't follow this kind of thinking, we'd probably be a whole lot less stressed if we did, but the way I see it, I'm here as a guest on DAZ's international forum where people of all ages mingle. Not obeying this simple rule -- "in absence of flag system, no nuddies for now" -- would make me a rude guest. At home, I can be all pants-optional as I want to be (and often I am!), but when I visit other places, I want to know what rules they got before I whip my pants off and run around half-nekkid. On my own forum, I can post as much nudes as I like.

    Making a huge point out of the whole thing is also kinda rude, considering how we all work with naked human skins, often in explicit detail in 4000+ pixel glory; I don't think people in here load skins on their Genesis/V4/M4 eyes closed, and then fumble with the mouse and don't look at the model until they find the button that puts clothes on it. Most people in here are dealing on day-to-day basis with people around them, who have their hangups; digital artists probably have very little. But sadly, those people around the said artists can make their lives miserable, if they happen to catch a glimpse of one of those hangup pictures. Perhaps they're bosses. Perhaps coworkers. Perhaps people with a grudge.

    It is a bit upsetting, as I think the whole "puritan" argument targets the wrong people: it is not us, the artists or forum-owners, who are likely to blow a gasket over the whole thing. Yet, it is us who read it, and not people around us, the ones who are the likeliest to have a problem with bare human flesh, no matter how artistically portrayed; seriously, we know it, it sucks, no one needs to do a taunting dance around the issue. Also, as it has been said before, they are looking for content-flagging system that would allow a compromise between "no nudes ever" and "full Monty whenever, good luck with not getting hit by corporate dragnet".

    So, please. Can we just let DAZ find the content plugin system, and in meanwhile post to DeviantArt or Rendo those nuddys we can't post here right now?

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 30,260
    edited December 1969

    Spyro said:
    Have you upgraded your poser program yet? Now that you got a new pc. That's so exciting for you, I can't wait to go and buy a decent 3d practical computer! Has to be custom made so I'm doin some home work on it. The forums are a great place to learn it sometimes. Do you use Daz at all cho? Seems as though it's free and there be a growing gen 5 family.


    Yes, I have upgraded all the way to Poser 8, from my old reliable Poser 6. LOL. I am a bit old fashioned, plus permanetly short of money. Have been saving up for the new PC for ages (18 months or more)

    I don't use DS at all, just can't get on with it, and as I only render In Bryce, Poser is great for getting all the prep done. I am used to the work flow now, as I have been doing it this way since Poser 3 and Bryce 3. Bryce 2 never had any people in my renders.

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 5,020
    edited December 1969

    Congratulations Cho. Wow you really do live up to your 'Bryce Addict' status LOL I have seen a couple you've done with people... Your homecoming was just fantastic! and your fairy one in the moonlight just blew me away, and thats saying a lot, cos I not much into fairies myself. I cant wait to see what you create with ur new PC and Poser 8!!

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 5,020
    edited December 1969

    @ Skiriki - Did you know I have never posted a nude render before... I have made them, but I've never actually posted them anywhere despite having a past in traditional art and training. I've always been to worried that someone will criticize it as being not 'art'. I definitely wouldn't at all call it anything but 'art'! they're certainly not erotic or anything like that... But I think I just 'think too much' and choose not too. But my background in art has really given me a great appreciation for the human body, and anatomy is really fascinating to study, both in art and research.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 30,260
    edited December 1969

    Spyro said:
    Congratulations Cho. Wow you really do live up to your 'Bryce Addict' status LOL I have seen a couple you've done with people... Your homecoming was just fantastic! and your fairy one in the moonlight just blew me away, and thats saying a lot, cos I not much into fairies myself. I cant wait to see what you create with ur new PC and Poser 8!!


    I do the occasional stupid one as well

    Skele Come Dancing
    Skele_come_dancing.jpg
    576 x 768 - 319K
  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 5,020
    edited December 1969

    The dead dancing with the stars??? LOL Very cool Cho! Nice lighting and the poses are great :) I've got a stupid one coming up soon, but I must finish my latest bow bundle before I can do it.

  • Miss Bad WolfMiss Bad Wolf Posts: 20,858
    edited December 1969

    Spyro said:
    On a stupid note ... My phone randomly tells me that submitting information here in the forums is not secure and that I should be aware that personal details should only be used cautiously. Oh! I see ... Like I wasn't aware that I was posting in a forum and that people can read it !

    I sometimes get warnings similar to that when I log in while viewing a thread and then replied to something without changing pages. It was just saying that the information that was sent was not secure. The login process was secure but it did not get out of the https thing when it went to the topic's page.

  • Miss Bad WolfMiss Bad Wolf Posts: 20,858
    edited December 1969

    I do not mind nudity in photos or renders. 3d.sk does not bother me. They have pictures of nudity galore. What I do not like is porn. I have not actively searched for porn. Once I was given porn on a disc and shown a porn magazine. i was disgusted and stopped doing anything with that person. It was not that they were nude but what they were doing. The guy showed me the porn magazine to show that some men like chubby women. The images in the magazine were not tasteful nudes, but naked women doing the hanky panky with a man that is barely in the picture. Whenever I think about that guy, I wonder why did I ever give him a chance. I am glad i ended all communications with him as he was nothing but trouble.

This discussion has been closed.