Character presets with a modifier_library ignoring it entirely on loading

I made some changes to a character morph via --Edit Mode > Show in Property Hierarchy-- and then saved the resultant character as a character preset.

Daz still presented a modifier_library which had the changed formulas for the morph. Unfortunately, seems like this is not supposed to happen since Daz does not load that altered morph back to the character. Or am I missing something? 

Comments

  • If I'm following what you're saying, I think you missed saving the changes before saving out the character preset.

  • No, my character is saved as a scene already. I load it up and then save a preset. Seems like this is happening only on the latest versions of daz, since I am pretty sure this wasn't an issue in older builds. 

    And, another thing I noticed, my old character presets are giving me the same issue but only for females. My old male character presets with the modifier library load fine. Once I load the scene files and then save a preset again, even for males it ignores them (in the newly saved presets).

    So, newly saved presets for both males and females are ignoring it up and old presets only for females... 

  • Catherine3678abCatherine3678ab Posts: 3,559
    edited February 23

    No, saving as a scene is not the same thing as first saving all the elements. Indeed saving as a scene unfinished work does tend to make for complications as all the partial saves need to be cleaned out for any final good saves to be properly read by the program. Any edition. [only one morph is going to be read of any collection of morphs all bearing the same name]

     

    Post edited by Catherine3678ab on
  • peteanderson1212peteanderson1212 Posts: 61
    edited February 23

    Catherine3678ab said:

    No, saving as a scene is not the same thing as first saving all the elements.

     Then I am afraid I am lost on what you're trying to tell me to save first here then. 

    FYI, the morph I am changing is not my own morph, if you intended to tell me to save the morph as if I was using a custom morph. 

    Post edited by peteanderson1212 on
  • If you want a custom or modified morph then as I understand it the only preset which can carry it is a Character preset, and only if used to load a new figure

  • Maybe you could tell us exactly what it is you are changing about this morph?

     

  • peteanderson1212peteanderson1212 Posts: 61
    edited February 23

    Richard Haseltine said:

    If you want a custom or modified morph then as I understand it the only preset which can carry it is a Character preset, and only if used to load a new figure

    By load a new figure, are you saying an entirely new figure entirely? I can try that, but my characters as scene were all started as a new figure, I think I'm lost here on what you're trying to tell me here too. I mean, by your phrasing if I start as a new figure (I am assuming the daz base figure without the morphs) and loaded the morph(s) onto it, changed the morph via Hierarchical Property and saved it as a character preset, then that is exactly what I did. 
    And it was all working till this update, my last presets are saved dated December 4th 2020. Hmm, I can inconvenience myself a little and try start with a new figure entirely.

    Catherine3678ab These files are made on Daz 4.11. What I had done was changed the values of the ERC deltas to 0 (for some of the things within the morphs that I didn't want it to change)

    Like in that screenshot changed the 0.2 value to 0 so it wouldn't change that particular thing. I did that for body morphs which changed the nippler/areola/nail/navel of the figure, before saving it as a character preset. When I loaded that preset back, earlier it was fine but now it's not including the modifier_library values.
    Daz would write the modifier_library when you try to change a morph's ERC values. It still does, except this time it's just not loading it back.

    EDIT: Richard Haseltine Alas what you suggested doesn't work. Loaded a new figure, did what I mentioned above and when I loaded the figure via the character preset, those changes are lost. It actually doesn't even apply that morph, to begin with, forget loading the changes.

    Post edited by peteanderson1212 on
  • So you load a figure, make a change to one of the ERC properties and set a morph to a non-zero value, save a Character preset, then with nothing in the scene selected double-click the preset and get a newly loaded figure from it, which lacks both the morph and the modified ERC?

  • Richard Haseltine said:

    So you load a figure, make a change to one of the ERC properties and set a morph to a non-zero value, save a Character preset, then with nothing in the scene selected double-click the preset and get a newly loaded figure from it, which lacks both the morph and the modified ERC?

     That is correct. And as I said, only the old presets for Male are loading fine, not the females. And any newly saved presets lack that changed morph or the modified ERC values. 

  • If it's affecting only one sex it might be a metadaata-related issue, try reinstalling the Genesis X Starter Essentials if you haven't.

  • Richard Haseltine said:

    If it's affecting only one sex it might be a metadaata-related issue, try reinstalling the Genesis X Starter Essentials if you haven't.

     Guess you didn't read the part correctly. It affects one sex (female) only for the older character presets that I had saved already (prior to updating daz, on 4.14). But any newer character presets I save, whether be male or female are both affected.

  • Richard Haseltine said:

    If you want a custom or modified morph then as I understand it the only preset which can carry it is a Character preset, and only if used to load a new figure

    And would not that custom or modified morph have to first be saved on its own, in order to then be carried in a character preset?

     

  • peteanderson1212 said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    If you want a custom or modified morph then as I understand it the only preset which can carry it is a Character preset, and only if used to load a new figure

    By load a new figure, are you saying an entirely new figure entirely? I can try that, but my characters as scene were all started as a new figure, I think I'm lost here on what you're trying to tell me here too. I mean, by your phrasing if I start as a new figure (I am assuming the daz base figure without the morphs) and loaded the morph(s) onto it, changed the morph via Hierarchical Property and saved it as a character preset, then that is exactly what I did. 
    And it was all working till this update, my last presets are saved dated December 4th 2020. Hmm, I can inconvenience myself a little and try start with a new figure entirely.

    Catherine3678ab These files are made on Daz 4.11. What I had done was changed the values of the ERC deltas to 0 (for some of the things within the morphs that I didn't want it to change)

    Like in that screenshot changed the 0.2 value to 0 so it wouldn't change that particular thing. I did that for body morphs which changed the nippler/areola/nail/navel of the figure, before saving it as a character preset. When I loaded that preset back, earlier it was fine but now it's not including the modifier_library values.
    Daz would write the modifier_library when you try to change a morph's ERC values. It still does, except this time it's just not loading it back.

    EDIT: Richard Haseltine Alas what you suggested doesn't work. Loaded a new figure, did what I mentioned above and when I loaded the figure via the character preset, those changes are lost. It actually doesn't even apply that morph, to begin with, forget loading the changes.

    I think there is possibly a better way to do what you are wanting done. That would be to make a dial that does all this [making zero the nail and navel for example], that dial you can savely save and it would be available to use on "any" character loaded for the same base figure. 

    D/S has a cached memory, so making changes and loading files - things might appear to be all there at first but in reality they are not. After closing/opening D/S then the cache memory would be cleared and the files should be appearing as they really are.

    It is also possible perhaps that something that used to work in previous editions no longer works the same way. So the trick would be to figure out how to get what you want done, done.

    I'm not an expert concerning ERC [my main use of it is to set bones] - but I do know that in order to save a variety of presets, first all the components have to be saved. For example, one cannot save a truly new Shader Preset if one does not have the truly New Shader file saved. One cannot save a new material preset using a new uvset without first saving the New UVset. If D/S doesn't have anything recorded as "saved" - how can it save a change made to a [in its findings] nonexistent component.

     

     

  • Catherine3678abCatherine3678ab Posts: 3,559
    edited February 24

    Okay here you go: my 2 cents worth:

    Load a figure, dial in full all those morphs you do not want:
    Parameters Tab, edit mode
    Create New Property
    With default settings for the most part, provide Name/Label/Path/Type/color as please/
    Then right-click on the new dial - ERC Freeze Options
    Check and Accept
    Put the dial to Zero and Save it
    See images:

    Save this dial as Morph Asset then:

    And just as important: how to get rid of learning morph assets ;-)

    Now once you have got one of those made, that can be used on a character - saved out with the character in a character preset or whatever and/or a scene file, etc. 

    Have Fun :-)

    uncheck any boxes not to be saved.png
    910 x 790 - 88K
    have fun.png
    1053 x 803 - 168K
    with DS closed.png
    903 x 457 - 44K
    Post edited by Catherine3678ab on
  • Catherine3678ab said:

    And would not that custom or modified morph have to first be saved on its own, in order to then be carried in a character preset?

    Catherine3678ab said:

    For example, one cannot save a truly new Shader Preset if one does not have the truly New Shader file saved. One cannot save a new material preset using a new uvset without first saving the New UVset. If D/S doesn't have anything recorded as "saved" - how can it save a change made to a [in its findings] nonexistent component.

    Not that I have encountered it, at least earlier it was working fine.  You needn't save the morph first because Daz would actually save the modified morph within the saved scene. And when you save that as a character preset, it would also include that modified morph with all the formulas that the morph contains, along with your change. (Daz wouldn't do that unless there was any change to the morph formula first - The ERC values). So both your scene would include that modified morph and the character preset too. On 4.14 Daz would load the character with the morph applied and the changed ERC values, as Richard asked me earlier about it. But not now (at least, partially in one case only)

    Catherine3678ab said:

    I think there is possibly a better way to do what you are wanting done. That would be to make a dial that does all this [making zero the nail and navel for example], that dial you can savely save and it would be available to use on "any" character loaded for the same base figure. 

     Honestly, when I first read this I was like, woah why did I never try this out. Then I saw your steps and it seemed quite possibly a good solution. Alas there are some issues with it. ERC only does Adding and Subtracting. Hence, you can't exactly dial out the dials to 0 (not to mention since all of those dials might not have the same value, if I subtract the same value from it it would just send some of them into the negative values)

    I saw there's some method for multiplying/dividing, but I couldn't figure out how they worked. I guess multiply multiplies the values with the value you put the slider into, divided by divides the dial's values with the value on the slider, whereas the divide into is the one I didn't get. Not that I had much time to test, but from first glances I can see neither provides a way to set the values to 0. Not to mention that, it might conflict with the time when I actually want to set those dials to my predefined value.

    What I mean to say is not that I want those dials to be set to 0, I simply just don't want those values set by the body morphs I have (some of the character morphs from some resellers don't have separate nipple/navel/nail morphs and they include all of those within one single character body morph)

    I do want to be able to set those dials later on and not conflict with the new dial I make. 
    All this would be simple if there was an actual proper working lock mode. See this thread of mine, which is how I eventually came to this workaround with modifying the ERC values.

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/409491/keeping-locked-dials-intact

    I guess at this point I could just modify those morphs itself to remove the formulas for the dials I don't want it to affect. That seems to be the simplest solution for now. As a side note, I don't know whether to report this as a bug or not, not that Richard Haseltine has commented on what I said last to him. Not that it matters, I don't think I am seeing a fix anytime soon even if I report it. 

  • ERC does have multiply and divide, under Second Stage. You can alsos et up a hidden, constant property and multiply by that minus the variable slider. As for things goign engative, that's where limits come in handy.

  • Richard Haseltine said:

    ERC does have multiply and divide, under Second Stage. You can alsos et up a hidden, constant property and multiply by that minus the variable slider. As for things goign engative, that's where limits come in handy.

     I'm afraid you'll have to give a little more intructions on how to do that. I can create a new property with a constant 0 value. How would I set it up to be used as a multiplier within the other morph?

  • peteanderson1212 said:

    ... edited ...

    ...  You needn't save the morph first because Daz would actually save the modified morph within the saved scene.

    ....

    It is better to save the morph first. D/S will save all kinds of things in a scene. That does not mean it is the better way. You can cross the road at the intersection where the traffic lights are located, you can also cross the road in the middle of a blind turn - it doesn't mean that's such a good idea ;-) Recommended practice is to save your morphs before saving your scenes. I do not recommend making changes to existing morphs [i.e. the ones you pay for] because there are many possible complications and ramifications for doing so.

    Pause your troubled mind: you have purchased morph A. You didn't like it as is, you made changes to it. But you did not save the real morph A. You saved a scene with changes made to morph A. So the program now has 2 listings referring to morph A. It is "not" going to read correctly all those references when next morph A is called for. Which one should it choose? D/S will only read one morph when 2 morphs bear the same name. This is not a bug. Reality check. [in order for the 2nd one to work, the lst one would have to be deleted from the data folder].

    It is "not" recommended for the general population to go about making changes to purchased morphs {MR exceptions} because the PAs went to a lot of work to create their characters 'just so' ... morphs are or can be "connected" to other morphs. Chain reaction. If you goof up one morph, you have no idea how many others you will be badly affecting too. So ... I showed you how to set up a dial which you can save first, then use it to make changes to any collection of morphs you want to more safely. On my test dial I was able to set them to zero or any other desired setting. It should not be a problem for you to set up a similar one dealing the morphs affecting your purchased morph A. While such a dial can be used on any character morph - that doesn't mean it must be! If your purchased character morph B has different requirements, set up another dial for that figure.

    Or golly gee ... just use the purchased character morphs "as is" - that is okay too. There is no serious need to have to go to such an amount of work to use each and every character that you have licensed. Any morph being used in a character will show up on the Parameters Tab - from where it can be dialed to a different setting. After changing those settings, one can save out a shaping preset, a pose preset, a parameters preset or whatever - depends which dials you change. These presets do no damage to existing morphs. Easy to make and easy to delete [right-click option on their loading icon in the Content Library].

    Remember, Daz Studio is a program for rendering images. It does contain a number of "content creation tools" which is wonderful! But all those content creation tools are for creating content - not messing up existing content just to render an image ;-)

     

     

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