Poser support being run down?
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I agree, the content folder in d/s is not something I am a fan of either.
I would love to be able to rearrange the folders in it to how I would like them sorted and still have DIM know where they are.
But who knows...that may be something DAZ can work on for later incarnations. Nothing is perfect yet ;)
Until then...I have basically found my way through it, so that is good enough for now.
Rawn
Doesn't...the runtime folder in DAZ have the exact same structure it has in Poser?
Doesn't...the runtime folder in DAZ have the exact same structure it has in Poser?
The structures are similar but the way the program shows them is vastly different. DS has a strangely cascading folder system that works horizontally instead of a single runtime that works vertically like Poser
Rawn you make some really good points here and I agree that SM has let Poser stagnate while DS has forged ahead, and I can't speak for the other poser users but I have tried to use DS and the workflow of DS is seriously jacked up for me. The runtime folders make no sense at all, if DS could create a mirrored poser workflow option I am sure you would see a lot more poser users that feel like me switch over. I see a great amount of items being made by yourself and others that are not Poser comparable that I would by if they worked in Poser.
I agree with both of you. I admit I prefer the way DS files are shown. One can always rearrange things under Runtime\Libraries\... or so I heard, but it is a PITA indeed.
The structures are similar but the way the program shows them is vastly different. DS has a strangely cascading folder system that works horizontally instead of a single runtime that works vertically like Poser
You can switch to a tree view, like the side bar in Windows Explorer, from the pane's option menu - the lined button in the top corner, or right-click the tab. I'm not sure if that's what you mean though - in Poser you pick the library type first (Pose, Figure etc.) and then get the list of locations under that.
Here is a screen shop of my Poser layout right now. I have run this way since Poser Pro 2010 and works near perfectly for my workflow. If DAZ could create an interface that could get within 75% I would be willing to bridge the gap. As the DS interface stands right now I can work in it for 15 to 20 minutes tops before I become so frustrated that I have to walk away from my computer and it generally causes me to step away from any art of a minimum of the remainder of that particular day. I know that DS does the material room and shaders differently and that will be a separate learning curve but the layout and runtime folder layout is the major hurdle I am facing.
It's really a matter of taste and workflow. Unfortunately when I have to make a bunch of materials, search for items (since a lot of times I can type the name of what I want in either pane), pose/move/bend joints, this interface slows me to a crawl and almost kept me from making materials for my last product.
However, I believe there's something in SDK to modify the interface and they've done it with the Darkside interface which I like. Someone could work on it, however, I don't want DAZ using resources to do it as the interface now allows to quickly search, select and dial parameters (with precision because of the sliders) and morphs. The interface you want isn't optimal for that, which is why I create character presets so they're easily found in Poser.
It's really a matter of taste and workflow. Unfortunately when I have to make a bunch of materials, search for items (since a lot of times I can type the name of what I want in either pane), pose/move/bend joints, this interface slows me to a crawl and almost kept me from making materials for my last product.
However, I believe there's something in SDK to modify the interface and they've done it with the Darkside interface which I like. Someone could work on it, however, I don't want DAZ using resources to do it as the interface now allows to quickly search, select and dial parameters (with precision because of the sliders) and morphs. The interface you want isn't optimal for that, which is why I create character presets so they're easily found in Poser.
That's what I have been saying, what works for me won't necessarily work for you or anyone else, but if DS offered a chance to make it at least 76% of what I have I would be willing to try and adapt to that and see if it will work for me. I have nothing against DS as a program I just can't get the workflow to work for me.
View as list, which is what you are describing, is one option, as is view as Tree or View side by side.
View as list, which is what you are describing, is one option, as is view as Tree or View side by side.
I will have to give that a try and see if it will work. Thanks for showing me that.
I hold no loyalty to any app I'll use C4D ,Lightwave & Blender. Blender & zBrush. DAZ Studio & Poser.
What ever tool I need I'll use the app that has that tool ,I don't care what names on the app. I care about the tool.
So far I have use C4D ,zBrush a lot more then Poser or DAZ Studio but that might change.
IgnisSerpentus : I was just explaining to Estroyer Poser users point of view.
Well thats a blade that cuts both ways… its really not DAZ’s fault Poser no longer has compelling figures, either.
This is true but DAZ characters are the only compelling characters Poser has ever had.
So with out DAZ ,Poser has no new compelling characters.
So ya can see Posers dilemma here.
Free enterprise and all that, anyone with the capability could make one.
Ya we could build are own DAZ Empire on killer Poser characters .
Wish I new Poser a lot better .at this point ,I have difficulties with a candle prop working right in Poser.
I also can’t really blame DAZ for not wanting to make figures for competing software.
Well ,they still do with DSON & sell Poser stuff in the store.
I don't no the solution ,all I know is Poser needs DAZ to make characters for Poser.
Install Manager doesn't care it is still using the real folders.
The other option is to use Smart Content, but that isn't the same thing.
Install Manager doesn't care it is still using the real folders.
The other option is to use Smart Content, but that isn't the same thing.
Well, crap. I wish I'd thought of that five years ago. XD All this time I've been manually copying from a DIM directory to a separate one that I actually use so I can have subcategories (for e.g. fantasy clothing, contemporary clothing) that don't include our vanity folders.
Yeah, Ive often said the same thing... DAZ should just make a figure for Poser. Call it something else, or whatever. But it wouldn't be able to totally do what Genesis does, which is what makes it so compelling. Would people even support it? Coz that's, in part, what makes a figure - the support it has and content that becomes available. Would the ROI be worth it in the long run? And I kinna get the lack of interest on DAZ's part to want to devolve something (Ive had my own issues going back to Poser, having done Genesis stuff now. Because it does streamline so many things and make stuff a lot easier/better) especially since it would ultimately compete with Genesis/Gen 6. These are prolly big factors in their lack thereof.
As for DS' UI.... everything is always a bit awkward to get used to at first. I was strictly a Poser person at one point in time. But honestly.... DS isn't really THAT much different. Its just, the functions are in different places. DAZ has actually cut out chunks of the workflow on most things, to make it easier and faster.
The folder hierarchy isn't that bad, once u get used to it. And for Poser content thats done in DS, its exactly the same (its all still in the Runtime and follows the same library hierarchy) But I actually like DS' folders.... coz you can have everything in one folder. So if you have clothing, your materials go in the folder with it. No having to hop to a new category, new folder, etc. But yah, its a little confusing at first. Just have to get used to it, is all.
Some of my fave features of DS:
Sharper more crisp renders (sadly tho, at the cost of speed lol)
Collision detection on clothing (which means having to do less correcting)
ERC Freeze/Property Hierarchy and how easy it is to do JCM's
Mass selection of proverbially anything/mass editing/mass deletion
Mass selection of materials and being able to change them all at once on same material items (instead of one at a time)
Easily copying/pasting entire materials without having to select the surface and all its nodes
I think the SSS in DS is better than Poser's
WM's do transition the joint much smoother, and you have more versatility in the joint
HD is pretty cool - better detail in renders, without having to have too high poly slow you down while working
Oh I almost forgot... Reverse Deformations. This functionality is so brilliant, I want to have its children :P Im a bit afraid they will come out deformed, however (har har)
The only thing I favor in Poser over DS anymore, is the shaders (but that only comes down to the fact I'm used to Poser's, and Poser's is a little more intuitive) And I wish DS had a morph brush lol But with GoZ, not really sure it actually needs one.
Well, crap. I wish I'd thought of that five years ago. XD All this time I've been manually copying from a DIM directory to a separate one that I actually use so I can have subcategories (for e.g. fantasy clothing, contemporary clothing) that don't include our vanity folders.Don't feel bad, DS couldn't do that much more than a year ago. LOL.
The other option is for Poser to add support for the DSON format.
The other option is for Poser to add support for the DSON format.
Yeah, honestly... in this case, it really ought to be up to SM to make it fully compatible, either that way or by restructuring the entire thing so it reads it natively. I understand why they don't... it would require a total overhaul to Poser, if they made it work natively. But I don't think its fair to lay blame entirely at DAZ's feet, like I have seen scores of folks do. DAZ can only control so much.
Install Manager doesn't care it is still using the real folders.
The other option is to use Smart Content, but that isn't the same thing.
Not sure what that means...but ok ;)
Still would encourage development of a library structure that can be moved ;)
Not sure what that means...but ok ;)
Still would encourage development of a library structure that can be moved ;)In Windows, for example, right click on a folder and "Create Shortcut." That new folder can be anywhere on your computer but still, when you open it, opens the actual folder in the original location.
Not much (or any in most cases) more, time consuming than moving the actual folders, or even content, but with the added advantage that Install Manager still knows where things are for updates.
ahh..ok
On the topic of props specifically, as it was asked, there are a few reasons I can think of why someone would do a prop for one or the other app:
1) The merchant in question does not own Poser. For a newer merchant starting out, DS is far easier to attain (no overhead really) so a fair few without say the last 2+ years have come in on DS as the app was free thus allowing them to invest more money in other apps etc that help in the creation of their items (IE Modeling apps, Mapping apps, Apps for texturing etc)
2) If said prop is something that needs rigging. For certain things weight mapping is better but it is different between Poser and DS so you would be talking double the work I believe. Add to that that since Poser is a paid app, a fair few customers have not bought the last couple versions to even have the weight mapping. I know people using Poser that are back on Poser 6 because they couldn't afford the upgrade. With DS being free, the majority actually are on the latest version. So within Poser itself, you have a fair bit of choices to make to support it and if you go for the newest with the technology that is "closer" to DAZ Studio, you are cutting out a part of your market still as it's about a 50/50 shot which "version" who is using.
3) Materials (as someone mentioned) The material handling is pretty different. Shader Builder or whatever to me makes them closer but in general the materials render/look a fair bit different between the two apps so being an expert in materials in both is almost a must. That said for some that can be difficult. The apps work very differently and one or the other can be confusing to any given person. Some apps you can just "pick up and get it" and be comfortable and boom you are off and moving. Sometimes though an app can confuse you, not make sense to the way you work or think, etc making that app very hard for you to learn. It happens with modeling apps etc as well. One you fall in love with as its like it was made for you and another you look at and its like O.o um ok what is THIS LOL and for everyone which causes which is different as everyone approaches things differently.
Those are just the 3 of the top of my head. There are other reasons too but some I would not be great at even explaining so maybe someone else will bring that up.
To date, we have tried (ARTCollaborations- PA wise) to remain supporting both and will continue to do so as long as we can but I will say the divide between the software gets larger and larger and the differences in the two also make things harder and harder to support both and the choices on what may need left out or what may need added in to get something to work is becoming more frequent.
well I started CGI with TrueSpace 3/4 in 1998.
truespace was a killer med range app & The TSML "truespace mailing list" was great in teaching me CGI.
They hadn't invented forums yet.
but there was some tools it just didn't have that I needed .
So I eventually got Lightwave & C4D.
sadly truespace 7 was the last truespace R.I.P.
In 1998 Softimage was one of if not the reigning king of CGI.
2015 will be the end of Softimage.R.I.P.
If anyone has only used softimage from 1998 to 2015.
will have a very hard time adapting to a different CGI app.
I don't think of it as right or wrong with TrueSpace ,Softimage, DAZ, Poser ,it's just how it worked out.
Maybe the best philosophy for user would be don't limit ya self to any one app.
Experience all of the CGI universe. ya never know you might be surprised & fascinated by what all you will see.
As a Poser user and customer of yours (and of many DAZ PAs) I have the feeling that our support is not particularly appreciated here...
I know that I said that I would not post other replies in this thread (http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/691266/) but I post this one exceptionally.
As a Poser user and customer of yours (and of many DAZ PAs) I have the feeling that our support is not particularly appreciated here...
I know that I said that I would not post other replies in this thread (http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/691266/) but I post this one exceptionally.
Its not that its not appreciated. Its just, when you're a business entity, you have to consider if the ends are justifying the means.
Would Nike continue to make sneakers in size 14, if no one ever wore it? Sure, there might be a few folks who do in the entire universe, but do those few folks make up for the money/time spent for what the end result is?
Its a business decision everyone has to make, so I hope folks don't take it personally.
Its not that its not appreciated. Its just, when you're a business entity, you have to consider if the ends are justifying the means.
Would Nike continue to make sneakers in size 14, if no one ever wore it? Sure, there might be a few folks who do in the entire universe, but do those few folks make up for the money/time spent for what the end result is?
Its a business decision everyone has to make, so I hope folks don't take it personally.
This! People don't seem to get this.
This is not about us not liking you. We don't even know you, and Poser users by and large are fine people (every community has its trolls). We understand that you want a given thing. We also understand that, unless you have 200+ friends who are guaranteed to also buy that given thing, we can't afford to make it. We're committing time and taking a risk with any one item's genre and style before even worrying about spending twice as much time supporting two apps.
In the end its the Vendors choice as to what formats they create their products with but it works both ways, I let any vendor who's items look good know I would have purchased it if it was in a format I will/can use.
YES they don't have to make it in the format we want but we don't have to purchase it either.
I.E. Let the vendors know (politely) of the sale they are missing, either its worth their while or it isn't.
lol I dont think any vendor would expect someone to purchase it, if they can't/won't be able to use it. Chances are, if they can support it, and its worth their while, they already are.
Letting folks know is more than fine, esp if its politely. Sadly, many folks aren't even minutely polite about it... often repeat it over and over, even knowing the vendor can't/isn't going to be supporting that app, for whatever reason... which comes across as nagging. Its actually something I myself have experienced.
200 ? 94,803 is the # of members at runtime.
There's a lot of Poser venders at Poser stores.
I don't know where you got that number, but I doubt it. RDNA gets less traffic than Rendo, and Rendo never has more than about 5000 online at one time (as you can see by the front page; it's 3809 today). Not all of those people use one app. Some of them don't even use Poser OR DAZ Studio. Some use Vue, Carrara, only 3ds Max, only Maya, etc. And of those, there are the people that won't buy sci fi, won't buy male, won't buy fantasy, or just don't like a given item.
I'm not saying that to put down Rendo; I sell there, and I'm happy with them as a bonus income. But nobody is selling 90,000 copies of any product in its intro period anywhere, ever. Probably not even Smith Micro selling Poser itself.