Do You Have Suggestions for Changes to the Galleries?
RichardC
Posts: 17
Since my original post, pointing to questions that had been raised by other users, was misconstrued as representing my own opinions, I am flagging it for deletion.
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No, I don't think art that is postworked should be segregated.
How about adding a Postwork Checkbox when you upload your gallery image. If you added postwork, then you simply check the box.
Then add a Filter by Postwork search option to the Gallery (similar to filtering by Artist) to choose between 100% Daz Render (No Postwork) or Daz + Postwork Renders (could also have Minimal Postwork checkbox, or Major Postwork checkbox).
...there is a fellow over on DA who uses Daz to set op scenes but then adds a heavy amount of digital painting making them look more like oil paintings. Beautiful work but no longer looks like a "3D rendered image.
My thoughts include splitting into both "Finished" and "Sketch" (or "WIP") sub-galleries as I've seen a lot of what WIPs (sometimed several ubmissions of the same scene as it progresses) in the main gallery that makes it more tedious to go through. Personally I miss the old gallery format which showcased people's best work.
A separate gallery category for contests and challenges would also be nice.
I agree, but then again who decides what is postwork and what is not? To me sharpening, color correcttion, or contrast, etc are not things I consider postwork, but I have seen plenty of users that do.
I enjoy creating digital imagery, but bringing a base render into photoshop and spending hours, even days painting over it is a totally different skill set. While I enjoy viewing images like that, it's not what I would want to do myself. Maybe a tag for postwork or non postwork when uploading images, that way there is some small distinction, especially for new users that see the difference between both types, but don't realize there is a difference in more than just the image quality/style. it's like comparing my paint by the numbers landscape to a Van Gogh in a gallery, LOL. I wonder how many new users see a heavily postworked image and think to themselves, "what settings/product did the artist use in DS/Iray/3delight to get that effect?"
I enjoy viewing art that is created thru the same technic/style as my own more than looking at images that are created with different technics/styles that i will never use/ have access to. Kinda like looking at images that are rendered with different renderers. I hate looking at an image and thinking about how the artist did what they did so I could try and emulate what they did only to discover they used a different renderer like octane or Vray..
My understanding is that the purpose of the gallery is "display your art" and not "accurately demonstrate the capabilities of the software." I think it's very cool that some people enjoy the challenge of working entirely within DS to get their desired results; some of us are graphic artists who use 3D as part of a much bigger workflow. The gallery containing both types of work just shows how flexible the products are and how they can fit many different needs. That said, I am certainly rethinking whether or not my art belongs in the Daz gallery at all since a lot of it is paintover work.
I love to look at everyone's art and I have a personal policy that if something is interesting enough for me to click on, it's interesting enough for me to click the like button (comments are always way harder to get on any kind of post; in social media marketing they actually have a significant monetary value above a like or reshare). I think the existing gallery format probably made me way picker about what I clicked on than I otherwise would be, because loading times were pretty slow and there were a relatively small number of images on each page.
But this kind of thing is always a popularity contest to some degree, in the sense that folks are more likely to trust that something has value if other people do. It's pretty common for people to only comment on social media posts if they see other people commenting, or only look/like if someone else has. I usually don't get much traction anywhere I post if I'm just yeeting stuff into the ring, but do okay when I target stuff to my very niche corner of fandom. If I was going to target work to the Daz gallery, I'd concentrate on trying to make striking close up portraits or really strong cinematic compositions (worth noting that both of these are readable at a thumbnail size).
I assume Daz is probably already well into whatever gallery changes they're planning on, but my wishlist would probably be:
I think some folks would probably balk at those or consider them intrusive, but they do improve visibility and make it easier to recirculate older art. Currently it's a little like Twitter, where if an image doesn't get pickup right away it can just fall off the front page and never be seen again.
The gallery images on product pages feature is amazing and I think it's only part of DazDeals addon if I'm remembering correctly? It would be awesome if Daz integrated that officially, if so.
If I hadn't seen artists using Daz assets to do that kind of work, I would never have developed my current artstyle. I can totally respect if the community is uninterested in seeing gallery images that aren't straightforward renders, but when I see something I'm interested in replicating I research how to do it. If it turns out to be a workflow I don't want to learn, it's still cool to know how it's done and that it's possible.
I think a "postwork" button is kinda forcing an assumption or belief or feeling that renders brought through Photoshop (or some other image editing software) are somehow less or "other" when that is not the case at all. Just like with photography...in those spheres of social media, the general assumption is that all photos are post-worked in some shape or form (color, contrast, tone, sharpening, etc)...it is only when pieces are composited (i.e. composed of separate parts) does it become a "photomanipulation". But artwork made in/with Daz aren't photos...and the Daz galleries have always been a place to post up anything that has been made with Daz...post-worked or not. I dunno...I just don't think singling out post-worked images is the right thing to do...especially because someone already mentioned, where does one draw the line of what is "postworked" or not? Like if I do color/contrast/tone/sharpening and paint over a few wonky hairs to blend them more realistically, then how does my "post-worked" image compare to someone who does a complete digital painting from their base render? What about a button for "raw render"...that doesn't feel so good either. I think it's creating too many "others" when we're all just here to look at art that has been made possible by Daz.
I do like the idea of having a "scrap" or "wip" filter...because there have been times when I've posted something up only to be blasted off the front page by someone dropping like 25 rando wips in a row.
I agree.
The image is the goal, not purity in rendering.
Art has all sorts of tricks to fool the eye or make things look different/better. What if you use a billboard... a photograph or digital art as a background for your figure? Is that wrong? What about billboard figures? Is that wrong? There are many tricks to get someone to a final image, some tricks being less pure/good than others... and we debate this every time the p-word comes up.
Post-work does not make a digital image any less good than any other.
Not even real life photography is detached from post-work, so why is digital rendering any more pure of an art?
This would be really cool, and it reminds me of another wishlist thing. Pixiv allows posts with multiple images, which people often use to do doodle dumps or themed collections. Something like that would make it easy to do a "current WIPs" post, or collect multiple pages of a comic.
It would also be a great way to show 'before' and 'after' images - before postwork, or before you ,ade your big technical lighting change, or whatever... gives a bit of a work history to your image, which I personally find interesting. As far as the postwork conversation goes - Ron`s brushes are sort of a Daz feature, so it doesn't seem right to eliminate them. However, I would really like to see either separate Gallery streams or a way of easily choosing to view images by categories like render engines, topic or style, and especially for contests, which I never see. It would also be kind to have a most popular section for multiple categories, to maximize potential exposure? It's hard to comment on things when they vanish so quickly. Maybe a top ten for the day, week, and month? Or a most-commented section?
The galleries need better comment threading. So you know if you get a comment and people who comment know if you reply to them.
This one I absolutely agree with. I'd every now and again get comments asking how I did things, and I honestly have no idea if they ever saw my answers.
NSFW section?
(It'll never happen, and I recognize the challenges of making that possible while also pleasing the US payment systems.)
good question, in my perspective, if all your color corrections are inside Daz Studio then is not postwork because the render is not created yet and is a subprocess of it.
now, moving into galleries topic: why all you have an urge to have a gallery here?, there is a lot of sites now that you can do the same and be more exposure of your works, many users here already know that and post on Artstation or deviantArt, or better creates their own websites, or others feeling more professional publishing on CGsociety but that is major leagues.
post your works on the same entity that produces your art is like drawing cats using crayons and only show the drawings to Mom, Dad and your sister, they always praise you even if your works are bad, you only grow in skills when you get outside and post your work in another place...Instagram is a good option, Pinterest...nah.
I do it because it's fun, and if I found something cool to do with a product pretty much only Daz users are going to know what I'm babbling about or be interested.
Also people have different goals in posting their art, and not everyone wants the kind of visibility that comes with posting on social media or a bigger gallery. If you have specific subjects you want to render and you've found an audience that enjoys your art, that's just as valuable as broadening your reach if it fits you better.
I used to post on Twitter, but I'm probably going to move entirely over to Pillowfort once it's back up because it doesn't have a huge userbase but it's a more comfortable way for me to archive my work.
I enjoy posting to the gallery and to deviant art. Why not do both?
i think the 1st thing is to have a gallery
Fair point, but I have kids, and I know how much it means to them to be able to show me :-D
Also, I like that the PAs can see the sometimes strange things we do with their products, and have the opportunity to ask people questions about techniques when I see something I like. It is very annoying when shopping to not be able to see how something has been used by other people and thereby judge if I might find it useful, too. Feedback from people who are using the same software is also more useful than just random people dropping comments. Personally, I have no need to have my own website (I always think about it, but it seems unbearably vain), but I liked the convenience of having one here. DA I find to be a morass of questionable content, Instagram doesn`t really generate serious feedback. I suppose it depends on what kind of feedback or exposure you are looking for. I am just a hobbyist... and my mother doesn't understand my art or my crayons at all ;-)
Because it's one more place to share work and gain exposure. Because it's extremely useful to see examples of products if there is any question that promos cannot answer...many times I have purchased (or not purchased) a product based on examples I've seen in the galleries. Because if you're good enough (or popular enough) to get your work to the top of the pile, you will get noticed. By Daz. By YouTubers. By Bloggers. I'm just a hobbyist and I've even managed to get noticed. So how is it not a good idea to post in the gallery?
Personally? The main thing I like was that products could be linked by uploaders, and (at least with the Daz Deals plug-in) the renders could be accessed from the product page, allowing you to see a wider variety of examples of how a product could be used.
My renders have seldom been overwhelmingly successful on the gallery, but I've still been told by people that one or other of my renders was what sold them on whether a product was worth getting.
(Also, as noted, PAs can choose to be notified, which is probably neat for them).
A more important question is "does it really matter?"
I've come across a purist attitude in various art communities, but is the art any less legitimate if a user chooses to do their tone/colour correction with Photoshop's tools rather than the integrated ones in DS? Often, the exact details of colour, lighting, clipping clothing aren't apparent until after quite some time rendering, so expecting everything to be done in a purist fashion dramatically slows down everyone's workflow.
Thanks for your quotes, seems that all have different approaches relative on showcase your images, valid points too.
my point is doing this a business (I've done in just 2 years before Youtube) and not show my nude aikos to mom and dad, that was in the past, 15 years in this media are forcing me to make money from this, 4 burned PC's and 3 hard drives and many $$$$ wasted here demands that, for me is not an option, is a must. (I colored in dull because devaites from the original topic but if you are reading this maybe you could understand my point, thanks)
I wish you could limit WIPs of the same darned renders. Seriously, we don't need five with barely any tweaks. There's no way to filter that though.
Regarding postwork- have a Photoshop checkbox menu which opens up and looks like this with the submenu-
Photoshop Postwork
__ Plug-In(s)
__ Brushes
__ Color / Detail Corrections & Misc
I think identifying postwork such as lighting, contrast, color corrections are important because many times lighting products are listed and it may change a LOT from what the light product did.
I don't think moderators should be the only ones commenting. Their opinions aren't any more important than anyone else, and that limits interaction from other artists.
You could also have a menu with Program and have Daz Studio, Carrara, Vue, Bryce, Blender, Other (and probably some I forgot.) Daz should be at the top of the list.
Because the plug in shows links to the forum references AND THE GALLERIES and many people use those gallery references to see if they want to buy the product. IT IS A MAJOR SELLING TOOL. :) You have no idea how many people bought because they saw a gallery image! (Thank the artists!)
I've come across both attitudes...those that say if everything isn't done 100% in Daz, then it's a fail...and vice versa...that if you aren't doing at least a little postwork, then it's a fail...I don't agree with either.
If Daz is going to pay for bandwidth and create the gallery interface, it would seem that the most important thing would be that the products used to create the art, be exclusively Daz products (not RR) and the main products used be listed, which helps promote Daz sales, and the artist (win win). Postwork segregation could seem irrelevant but it does matter because segregating such indicates 'this is not out of the box', whereas 'this is out of the box(s) using these listed products and Daz Studio. Kitbashing is not the same as postwork and most of the best art I noticed was often kitbashed sans postwork, so a checkbox or a tab for postworked art would be great. Filters in photoshop and colors added to level adjustments can make dramatic differences to lights, so again if a light set is used without needing postwork, those kudos are earned. What I could render out of Daz (occassional sparse activity - soon to change) vs photoshop using since 1995, Version 3.0, are two different animals, so those who can make beautiful art from only utilizing DAZ Studio, Carrara or Bryce should be segregated and applauded. To be honest, I stumbled upon the gallery when googling a product I was looking for, and my only use of it was browsing the gallery I landed on. Another time I was reading a tutorial in one of the forums and the poster had a link leading to a gallery. The reason I didn't use the gallery more was I found the navigation a bit of a muddle. It would be nice if the art was divided, by overall type, not by the artist. Maybe tabs or dropdowns the major types of 3D art would be nice. Realism (mimicking real life), Unreal Realism (Sci-Fi Steampunk & Fantasy), Animation (linked to video would be cool), Photorealistic (mimicking real photographs), Cartoony & Anime. I didn't mention NPR because it is too broad (muddled). The last style of 3D art, Collage, I left out because it uses different mediums for a crafty look that work well in games/puzzles for kids . . . but for animators maybe also an Animation tab and also a Comics tab where people could post an animation frame shot or a page. Links to the artists offsite portfolios would be a very good thing, because without the artists, the gallery would look exactly like it looks now.
Sorry, I coloured it so I could read it :-) Of course, if this is a business for you, you are solely geared towards making money off of it, and a gallery here probably wouldn't do you much more good than teeth on a chicken! However, there is a wide range of purposes and experience levels here, and a well-designed gallery could achieve multiple goals for a variety of people... and for Daz, who is also a business and geared to making money, it is also another form of advertising and a kind of testimonial function. Whether they see the value of the advertising as sufficient in relation to the cost of setting it up and maintaining it, I couldn't even guess :-)
Daz maintaining a gallery is good business for them because it encourages people to use the products and gives them a place to post the art they made with them. If the art helps sell stuff that's great, but it would be pretty egregious to flat out designate the gallery as strictly a place for paying customers to post free product promos. It is the artist's job or the company's job to accurately represent their products. As it is Daz is one of the only companies I've seen actually take advantage of the common legalese about being able to use posted art to leverage gallery artwork for web assets and advertisements.
What if your image on Daz Gallery motivates a customer to buy a product of your image?
how much costs Facebook ads?
I hope you get my point.
I can only say for me, I tend not to enjoy labels or checking boxes. So, even though I know I would get more followers by hashtags, and categorizing things, that brings me no joy.
If DAZ store makes the galleries complicated, and insists I use boxes, or indicate my process when I make somethintg I will pass on submissions.
I don't mind crediting pas with content I use though, if I have the time in DAZ galleries.
But I'm not going to indicate if I postworked something. I'm not obligated to divulge all things I do to do what I do. If you want to know, you can ask me in my studio thread.