July, 2020 - Daz 3D New User Challenge - Portrait Rendering and LIE

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  • GalaxyGalaxy Posts: 470
    edited July 25

    With correction

    Waiting for you 1.jpg
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    Post edited by Galaxy on
  • LaPartitaLaPartita Posts: 315
    Galaxy said:

     

    With correction

    Wow!

    And may I say how impressed I am by your improvement over the last month?!!!

  • LaPartitaLaPartita Posts: 315
    edited July 26

    My final version (although I may try to do a second entry if I have time; I've always been afraid of monochrome palattes, but all the amazing monochromatic entries this month have been really inspiring!)

    image

     

    click for full size

    I'm really happy with this - it's one of my favorites I've ever done. And considering how uninspired I felt at the beginning of the month, that's a pretty cool difference. cheeky

    I tweaked the DoF as much as I dared (I've never done photography, and I had to adjust the F-stop to get a wider area for the DoF - but I didn't want to change it too much because I have no idea what an F-stop actually is), and then I spent a really long time playing with lighting. I wanted to keep it soft, but needed shadows so it looked 3D, and that was a tough line to walk. More about that in the next post for anyone who's interested!

    sahel portrait 1 v10.png
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    Post edited by LaPartita on
  • LaPartitaLaPartita Posts: 315
    edited July 26

    About the lighting, I personnally love how natural the light is right now but maybe that's my personnal taste for underexposition :). If you feel it's a bit too dark may be you can play with the tone mapping : push the gamma up to 3 or lower the F/ stop by 1 or 2.

    I don't know why the DoF is going blurry and noisy :s. It's a shame because the bokeh on the window is very pretty.

    Also, If I'm being very picky ^^ : In photography with tend to open the frame in the same direction where the subject is looking (like what you did in the first version). Now, it doesn't feel bad she is looking to the left, she is enought centered. But may be it worth to try with her looking to the right ... I'm not sure. Anyway it is just a small tips for next portrait :)

    @PixelReaper - I have a rough understanding of what tone mapping and gamma are, but I really need to figure out what the heck an F-stop does in a normal camera! And thank you for the info about what actual photographers do for portrait shots! Since I decided to keep her as she was, does that make me avant-garde? wink

     

    You have opened her up.  Her face is easier to see. 

    I agree she needs some more light.  What is behind her on the image right?  Is that fabric?  Could light be filtered through there?

    @Kismet2012 - it's a concrete wall, so I doubt it! I suspect some of my lighting is reflecting off the paint, though.

     

    In the end, I went with a rather kitbashed lighting setup using a ghost light and two of the lights from ThePhilospher's BOSS lighting product, as well as my original lighting (overhead lights from the set and daz's default hdri). The set, by the way, is called The Rec Room - it's a really nice and surprisingly flexible set with lots of kitbashing potential, as well as lighting and camera presets, and it's a Daz Original, so it's on sale regularly.

    In the images below (a screenshot from while I was working), you can see my general set up. I've deleted or turned off every single surface in the room that isn't affecting the shot, and added two spotlights and one box light with a honeycomb filter (photographers, did I get that terminology right?), all from the BOSS lights. You can see the ghost light outlined in yellow in the second image; that's actually providing most of the light that's new to this version. I dimmed the other lights down a bunch - they were casting shadows that were too harsh for what I wanted.

    The other big change in this version is that I used the eye materials and morphs from chevybabe's Natural Eyes for Genesis 8. I'm not going to pretend I understand how the product did this, but suddenly I've got this gorgeous reflection on her eyes. More things add to my ever-growing list of things I want to learn.

    Speaking of which - am I the only one who'd love to have one of these monthly challenges focus on render settings? They baffle me in iray, and they baffle me in 3delight, and I suspect that my ignorance is part of why my renders take hours and hours to run.

    As always, click on the images if you want to see them full size.

    image                   image

     

    sahel setup.PNG
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    sahel setup 2.PNG
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    Post edited by LaPartita on
  • LaPartitaLaPartita Posts: 315
    LaPartita said:

    @watchdog79. I love the way the light is reflecting off the glave now! It really elevates the portrait to a new level.

    Personally, I like the second image a bit better, because it has more contrast. I'm the biggest fan of how saturated the image is, though - I think it's flattening everything out, and distracting my eye from the tiger. I wonder if changing the white point balance in your render settings might help tone that down? 

     

    I am afraid you totally lost me there. What does the bolded part mean, please?

     

     

    So .... I basically know just enough to sound like I know what I'm doing, when actually I have no real clue. blush Hopefully someone who actually understands white point settings will chime in, but here's what I know. Under Render Settings in iray, there's an option for adjusting the "white point balance." Tweaking it by tiny amounts affects the color of your render - both hue and saturation are especially influenced by the setting. I've never actually played with it myself, though - this is just what I've gleaned from browsing the forums.

  • GalaxyGalaxy Posts: 470
    LaPartita said:

    My final version (although I may try to do a second entry if I have time; I've always been afraid of monochrome palattes, but all the amazing monochromatic entries this month have been really inspiring!)

    image

     

    click for full size

    I'm really happy with this - it's one of my favorites I've ever done. And considering how uninspired I felt at the beginning of the month, that's a pretty cool difference. cheeky

    I tweaked the DoF as much as I dared (I've never done photography, and I had to adjust the F-stop to get a wider area for the DoF - but I didn't want to change it too much because I have no idea what an F-stop actually is), and then I spent a really long time playing with lighting. I wanted to keep it soft, but needed shadows so it looked 3D, and that was a tough line to walk. More about that in the next post for anyone who's interested!

    Now the difference is huge and it looks more realistic than previous versions (many people will become confuse either she is virtual...)

  • Alias52Alias52 Posts: 45

    @LaPartita love your final version. The lighting seems way more natural and the slight blurriness of her closer limbs helps the face to jumpout for my mind. DoF is definitely another one of those skills to learn. I had a play with that in my last one and I found that the simpler scene I had chosen allowed me to adjust settings and see the changes happening in my viewport before going for the render. I am then hoping to apply that to more comlicated views!

     

    Speaking of which - am I the only one who'd love to have one of these monthly challenges focus on render settings? They baffle me in iray, and they baffle me in 3delight, and I suspect that my ignorance is part of why my renders take hours and hours to run.

    Definitely not just you! During this month, I have learnt so much from reading up comments to try to speed things up but I am not sure how much I actually know and how much is guesswork. I have managed to trim render times by doing various things but I couldn't say how much each thing did!

    So .... I basically know just enough to sound like I know what I'm doing, when actually I have no real clue. blush Hopefully someone who actually understands white point settings will chime in, but here's what I know. Under Render Settings in iray, there's an option for adjusting the "white point balance." Tweaking it by tiny amounts affects the color of your render - both hue and saturation are especially influenced by the setting. I've never actually played with it myself, though - this is just what I've gleaned from browsing the forums.

     

    Interesting, I may have to try that myself to see what that does. Personally, I have been playing with spotlight colour settings. I have found that just reducing the whiteness of the light even slightly can help with some washouts. Adjusting the intensity can sometimes help, as did changing the temperature of the light - higher goes towards blue (cooler) end of spectrum and lower towards red (warmer) end. It's a massive learning curve for sure and I am enjoying the challenge of finding out, so any tips are always welcome!

     

     

  • I do not use the sun option in iray very often as I find it difficult to get it pointed exactly where I want.  This free Light Probe might be helpful to you in the future.  I think it is designed for HDRI's rather than the sun though.

    As for the Intermediate Challenge you are more than welcome to try.  Sometimes we learn more by trying something we think is beyond our skill set.

    Overall the effect looks quite believable.  You got a nice blend between the green and the grunge.

    Thanks. I´ll check out the Light Probe. I know the sun is not a proper way to ligtht a portrait, but I learned a lot about render settings.

     

  • phong3dphong3d Posts: 14
    LaPartita said:

    My final version (although I may try to do a second entry if I have time; I've always been afraid of monochrome palattes, but all the amazing monochromatic entries this month have been really inspiring!)

    image

     

    click for full size

    I'm really happy with this - it's one of my favorites I've ever done. And considering how uninspired I felt at the beginning of the month, that's a pretty cool difference. cheeky

    I tweaked the DoF as much as I dared (I've never done photography, and I had to adjust the F-stop to get a wider area for the DoF - but I didn't want to change it too much because I have no idea what an F-stop actually is), and then I spent a really long time playing with lighting. I wanted to keep it soft, but needed shadows so it looked 3D, and that was a tough line to walk. More about that in the next post for anyone who's interested!

    Huge improvement - very naturalisitic and relaxed. The effort you put into it really shows.

  • ariochsnowpawariochsnowpaw Posts: 147
    edited July 26

    Once more the past month has been full of surprises and not getting to interact here as much as I'd like.  There are just a whole lot of amazing works going on here.

    I have sat down to try to figure out LIE many times in the past and I'm really glad that this months challenge motivated me to finally get it done.  Truly a nice tool to have in the mix.

    I originally started on a clown...that was just creepy so classic old film genre Vampire.  LIE was used for the skin, lips, blood, and in the irises although that doesn't seem to pick up well in the lighting.

    Postwork to add a bit of vignette to pull the eye more to the center o/w all DAZ.

    Intermediate Entry - LIE

    Night Things

     

    Vampire.jpg
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    Post edited by ariochsnowpaw on
  • eligodesigneligodesign Posts: 41
    edited July 26

    Hello,

    this is my entry for the Intermediate Challenge L.I.E

    Title: Kung Fu Balance

    Created with DAZ Studio 4.12

    Model: Genesis 8 Male

    Architecture: Kake-Zukuri Temple

    I'm currently working on my own martial artist character and face make up as well as body paint and tattoos. Here is the very first render made for this challenge.

    ED_TOSHIRO_LIE_SIG.jpg
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    Post edited by eligodesign on
  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,053
    Alias52 said:

    So, went away for a few days and decided to play with something else before maybe looking back at the first work. This time I played with DoF and lighting as well as posing. The expression said sadness to me and the pose screamed, "Give me a gun!" So I did and then tweaked the shaders. I just like the dichotomy of the Preppy girl carrying the deadly weapon.

    The DOF is very effective.  I like the way her hair is falling down the left side of her face.  Unfortunately, her hair appears to be clipping into her right shoulder.  If the hair has the morphs you could try either shortening the hair slightly or move it more forward or behind the shoulder.  Hair can be tricky.

    You did very well with the expression. 

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,053
    BlueFox said:
    BlueFox said:

    Beginner Challenge: Portrait Rendering (Expressions and Lighting)

    Rendered in Daz Studio with Iray.

    Title: Fragile

    I wanted to render something simple. I am not entirely happy with the colours, but I really like how the DOF turned out with the bokeh achieved within DS.

    I am so sorry @BlueFox.  I don't know how I missed this image.

    I love bokeh backgrounds and I like your choice of colour palette.  I find the DOF a little too strong or perhaps the area it is being applied to is too narrow/small.

    It may be the DOF effect but her white shirt appears to be getting blown out a bit by the light.

    If you want to, I would try adjusting the DOF first to see if that is affecting the look of the shirt.

    I love the simplicity of this image and the way she is looking off to the side.  This isn't an easy thing to do.  With a simple image there is nowhere to hide.

    Nicely done.

    @Kismet2012 Thank you so much for your feedback!

    The strong DOF was a conscious decision on my part, an experiment if you will, and I am rather happy how it turned out. The narrow area of focus was intentional.  You are right that it is not easy to get it right, when one wants the DOF to be this strong. It would be interesting to rerender this image with a weaker DOF to see what works better in this particular instance. Unfortunately I do not know, if I will find the time to do that. I do not have a strong graphic card and it takes forever to render a high quality render on my computer. The WIP's I render for myself are such grainy, low quality renders that I do not feel they are worth showing here. I have decided I will try to think about your advice while working on something new. I have rendered another simple portrait where the DOF isn't this strong. Hopefully I will share it with you soon. :)

    I had some trouble with the materials of the blouse. I think they and the light are mostly to blame for its appearance. I think that it looks a bit like the effect you get when a white material is seen in UV light. In any case I've decided to move on, since I wasn't sure how to fix this issue, it doesn't bother me as much anymore. I think I even got to like the result, but next time I will certainly pay closer attention to the materials to gain better control of the end result, especially when dealing with white materials. I think here I used satin shader preset. It had its own strong shine and coupled with the lights it came out a bit too strong. I think I might check later if the strong DOF is to blame as you have suggested, I did not think it could be responsible, thank you for suggesting it!

     

     

     

    I am uplouding a newer version of the image. I got rid of some fireflies on her collar in postwork. It is a subtle change, but they were really bothering me, and I think it looks better now. 

    Beginner Challenge: Portrait Rendering (Expressions and Lighting)

    Rendered in Daz Studio with Iray.

    Title: Fragile

    It is a wonderful image.  The strong DOF is not wrong.  We all have our preferences and as you said, getting it right is tricky and if you are happy with it that is all that matters.

    She is a very lovely subject and you did her justice.

    I also have an older nVidia card so some renders take FOREVER to complete so I understand exactly what you are saying. 

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,053
    Galaxy said:

    With correction

    That thumb looks much better.

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,053
    LaPartita said:

    My final version (although I may try to do a second entry if I have time; I've always been afraid of monochrome palattes, but all the amazing monochromatic entries this month have been really inspiring!)

    image

     

    click for full size

    I'm really happy with this - it's one of my favorites I've ever done. And considering how uninspired I felt at the beginning of the month, that's a pretty cool difference. cheeky

    I tweaked the DoF as much as I dared (I've never done photography, and I had to adjust the F-stop to get a wider area for the DoF - but I didn't want to change it too much because I have no idea what an F-stop actually is), and then I spent a really long time playing with lighting. I wanted to keep it soft, but needed shadows so it looked 3D, and that was a tough line to walk. More about that in the next post for anyone who's interested!

    She turned out lovely and was worth all the effort.  It is amazing sometimes what we come up with when we are completely uninspired.  I often entered Challenges/Contests as they gave me a direction and/or focus and ended up being some of my favourite images.

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,053

    Once more the past month has been full of surprises and not getting to interact here as much as I'd like.  There are just a whole lot of amazing works going on here.

    I have sat down to try to figure out LIE many times in the past and I'm really glad that this months challenge motivated me to finally get it done.  Truly a nice tool to have in the mix.

    I originally started on a clown...that was just creepy so classic old film genre Vampire.  LIE was used for the skin, lips, blood, and in the irises although that doesn't seem to pick up well in the lighting.

    Postwork to add a bit of vignette to pull the eye more to the center o/w all DAZ.

    Intermediate Entry - LIE

    Night Things

     

    Excellent job.  The pops of colour really work.

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,053

    Hello,

    this is my entry for the Intermediate Challenge L.I.E

    Title: Kung Fu Balance

    Created with DAZ Studio 4.12

    Model: Genesis 8 Male

    Architecture: Kake-Zukuri Temple

    I'm currently working on my own martial artist character and face make up as well as body paint and tattoos. Here is the very first render made for this challenge.

    Well done with the LIE tattoos and makeup. 

    The only critique I have is with the camera placement.  You cut off the toes of his foot. 

    Other than that I really like how and where you have placed him in relation to the background.

  • Alias52Alias52 Posts: 45

    The DOF is very effective.  I like the way her hair is falling down the left side of her face.  Unfortunately, her hair appears to be clipping into her right shoulder.  If the hair has the morphs you could try either shortening the hair slightly or move it more forward or behind the shoulder.  Hair can be tricky.

    You did very well with the expression. 

     

    Drat, I knew you would spot the hair...wink In previous renders the front bangs were also clipping but they could be tweaked and I was hoping to make them obscure the hair behind - sadly not! She doesn't look quite right with short enough hair and those strands, unfortunately, are the only ones I cannot move in the morphs! I will see if I can coax a bit of movement and perhaps I might get away with a slight tilt of the head. I will get back to that after I finish today's renders. Went completely off-piste today and have been playing with scenes!

  • Alias52Alias52 Posts: 45

    Ok, so managed to get a pose of the hair that allowed me to tweak it away from the shoulder, without much shortening at all.

     

     

    Misery.jpg
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  • daer-thingdaer-thing Posts: 33
    edited July 27

    This would be the first version of my (again almost last minute) entry to the beginner's challenge, "Portrait Rendering (Expressions and Lighting)".
    WIP title: Red leaves
    Rendered in Daz Studio with iray.
    No postwork (yet), only turned the image into jpg in image editor

    Been experimenting with backlit outdoors-y scenes, this would be one of such attempts.
    I have some questions about composition/cropping:
    Been wondering if it's okay not to have her face/eye in one of the "third points" on a portrait?
    Also, is this DoF effect look acceptable or too much? Been playing with that effect for a while but sometimes it still feels like dark magic. :/

    Any feedback or critique are totally appreciated and welcome :3

    torii_scene_v1.jpg
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    Post edited by daer-thing on
  • jecswpjecswp Posts: 9

    Hello, all

    This is my entry into the Beginner Challenge.  I hope you like it and look forward to any tips and suggestions you may have.

    Title: Faella Portrait

    Software: DAZ Studio 4.12 w/ Iray

    Model: Carmelita HD by Daz and Fred Winkler Art

    RGB HDRi Soft Lights for Daz Studio - Iray by valzheimer

    Morningstar Wings by Daz, Anna Benjamin, and Mada

    Elysa Hair by outoftouch

    Faella Portrait 2.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 519K
  • AndyAkinsAndyAkins Posts: 27

    Update for my Beginner's Challenge

    Victoria the 1st

    Shortened her hair on the right side to eliminate (I hope!) clipping... gonna be a busy week, so I suspect this is my "final" entry... but i'm still interested in advice, comments, and critiques.

    ~ Andy

    image

    VictoriaThe1st.png
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  • Daedalus-7Daedalus-7 Posts: 112
    edited July 27

    Ok just made this today. 

    Armor: https://www.daz3d.com/skull-queen-for-genesis-2-female-s

    Otherworldly Beauty​

    Wiked Teens JPG (w. Postwork 4).jpg
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    Post edited by Daedalus-7 on
  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,053
    Alias52 said:

    The DOF is very effective.  I like the way her hair is falling down the left side of her face.  Unfortunately, her hair appears to be clipping into her right shoulder.  If the hair has the morphs you could try either shortening the hair slightly or move it more forward or behind the shoulder.  Hair can be tricky.

    You did very well with the expression. 

     

    Drat, I knew you would spot the hair...wink In previous renders the front bangs were also clipping but they could be tweaked and I was hoping to make them obscure the hair behind - sadly not! She doesn't look quite right with short enough hair and those strands, unfortunately, are the only ones I cannot move in the morphs! I will see if I can coax a bit of movement and perhaps I might get away with a slight tilt of the head. I will get back to that after I finish today's renders. Went completely off-piste today and have been playing with scenes!

    I think most of us have had an issue with a hair or clothing or something that we couldn't easily resolve.  That is when you go to creative use of camera angles and lighting and if that doesn't work you either change the offending object or if it is minor enough hope no one notices.

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,053
    Alias52 said:

    Ok, so managed to get a pose of the hair that allowed me to tweak it away from the shoulder, without much shortening at all.

     

     

    Looks much better.  Now it appears to be brushing her shoulder.

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,053
    edited July 27

    This would be the first version of my (again almost last minute) entry to the beginner's challenge, "Portrait Rendering (Expressions and Lighting)".
    WIP title: Red leaves
    Rendered in Daz Studio with iray.
    No postwork (yet), only turned the image into jpg in image editor

    Been experimenting with backlit outdoors-y scenes, this would be one of such attempts.
    I have some questions about composition/cropping:
    Been wondering if it's okay not to have her face/eye in one of the "third points" on a portrait?
    Also, is this DoF effect look acceptable or too much? Been playing with that effect for a while but sometimes it still feels like dark magic. :/

    Any feedback or critique are totally appreciated and welcome :3

    There are many different "rules" when it comes to composition....and even then they are guidelines. The January New User Challenge covers composition. 

    What works for me in your image is the way the wall/walkway draws your eye towards your figure.  The DOF enhances that for me.  It keeps her in focus and allows the background to be a guide and not a distraction.

    Post edited by Kismet2012 on
  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,053
    jecswp said:

    Hello, all

    This is my entry into the Beginner Challenge.  I hope you like it and look forward to any tips and suggestions you may have.

    Title: Faella Portrait

    Software: DAZ Studio 4.12 w/ Iray

    Model: Carmelita HD by Daz and Fred Winkler Art

    RGB HDRi Soft Lights for Daz Studio - Iray by valzheimer

    Morningstar Wings by Daz, Anna Benjamin, and Mada

    Elysa Hair by outoftouch

    Great colour pallete.  Very harmonious.

    My eyes are drawn right to her face...which is exactly what you want in a portrait.

    The soft lighting suit your subject.  Just a suggestion, a soft rim light behind her head might add a bit of a halo effect.

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,053

    Update for my Beginner's Challenge

    Victoria the 1st

    Shortened her hair on the right side to eliminate (I hope!) clipping... gonna be a busy week, so I suspect this is my "final" entry... but i'm still interested in advice, comments, and critiques.

    ~ Andy

    image

    Shortening the hair really changes her look.  It is softening and eliminating some of the shadows.  It isn't always easy to deal with hair clipping.

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,053
    daedalus7 said:

    Ok just made this today. 

    Armor: https://www.daz3d.com/skull-queen-for-genesis-2-female-s

    Otherworldly Beauty​

    She is expressing a lot of attitude in her expression and stance.  The partial moon or planet showing behind her head does a good job of framing and drawing the eye.

  • daer-thingdaer-thing Posts: 33

    Thanks for the feedback, Kismet2012!
    Oh, I've just read the OP properly and I think I misunderstood something:

    "Or if you have not participated in the February Lighting Challenge"
    Is this correct? If yes then I'll rework my image to quickly to qualify for the intermediate challenge.

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