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Mocap data into daz for genesis 8

champx2345champx2345 Posts: 24
in Daz Studio Discussion

Hello, I'm noticing on the web that people have been able to get mocap data to work with Daz characters specifically Genesis 8. I've been researching Rokoko and other mocap technology and it seems impossible to use Genesis 8 unless you export the model outside of Daz. I want to use Daz as my final platform for animation and rendering. No one that I can find has made tutorials for mocap data being used for Genesis 8 but I see youtube videos of people doing it. Does anyone here know where I can get some learning on this subject? I have contacted some YouTubers as well hoping they can help. Thanks for reading and I hope everyone is safe and healthy.

Comments

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,919

    you need a retargetting software 

    I can get almost every motion out there into studio using iClone 3DXchange myself 

    some use Motionbuilder others use ikinema but think thats gone

  • champx2345champx2345 Posts: 24
    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    you need a retargetting software 

    I can get almost every motion out there into studio using iClone 3DXchange myself 

    some use Motionbuilder others use ikinema but think thats gone

    When you say retargeting do you mean for the animation to work in Daz. 3DXchange I thought was for the Daz characters to be retargeted for Iclone but not the other way around.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,919
    edited June 2020

    the bones need to match

    3DXchange targets it to iClone motions so you can apply iMotions and and other motions imported into it as FBX and retargetted and saved

    you can then export a BVH for DAZ studio

    choose hip not root node 

    use Genesis 1 for the best results saved as a pose will work on Genesis 3

    for 8 apply arms up 45 and legs in 6 in pose controls

    genesis 2 won't work with 3&8

    3&8 have twist bones that mess BVH import up

    that is why I say to use genesis 1 for the export from 3DX and import to DAZ studio 

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • champx2345champx2345 Posts: 24
    WendyLuvsCatz said:

     

     

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    the bones need to match

    3DXchange targets it to iClone motions so you can apply iMotions and and other motions imported into it as FBX and retargetted and saved

    you can then export a BVH for DAZ studio

    choose hip not root node 

    use Genesis 1 for the best results saved as a pose will work on Genesis 3

    for 8 apply arms up 45 and legs in 6 in pose controls

    genesis 2 won't work with 3&8

    3&8 have twist bones that mess BVH import up

    that is why I say to use genesis 1 for the export from 3DX and import to DAZ studio 

    OK thank you for this info, this is why we need a tutorial for this. I'll purchase 3dXchange and see if I can figure this out, but if you know of any tutorials please share them my way. Thank you again for pointing me in the right direction.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,919
    edited June 2020
    champx2345 said:
    WendyLuvsCatz said:

     

     

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    the bones need to match

    3DXchange targets it to iClone motions so you can apply iMotions and and other motions imported into it as FBX and retargetted and saved

    you can then export a BVH for DAZ studio

    choose hip not root node 

    use Genesis 1 for the best results saved as a pose will work on Genesis 3

    for 8 apply arms up 45 and legs in 6 in pose controls

    genesis 2 won't work with 3&8

    3&8 have twist bones that mess BVH import up

    that is why I say to use genesis 1 for the export from 3DX and import to DAZ studio 

    OK thank you for this info, this is why we need a tutorial for this. I'll purchase 3dXchange and see if I can figure this out, but if you know of any tutorials please share them my way. Thank you again for pointing me in the right direction.

    well you cannot just buy 3Dxchange sadly

    and you need the pipeline version with iClone

    I was just saying what I use and I am only on iClone6 pipeline 

    it might actually be cheaper to get a subscription to Motionbuilder 

    or use the trial to explore that way

    I am not the one to ask about that

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,919

    I would not push softwares on anybody and if I actually knew a free way I would suggest it blush

    iClone and its extras would have to be something you wanted to use for multiple reasons to justify buying it

  • TheMysteryIsThePointTheMysteryIsThePoint Posts: 2,892

    If you live in the right geographic regions, Maya can be gotten for indie pricing of $249 a year. That's the cheapest solution that will work with anything you throw at it, and has the power to allow you to fiddle until the motion is perfect. It's basically the same functionality as Motionbuilder now, and unfortunately there is nothing else that comes close.

    But I have to admit that I no longer remember the reason why I gave up on iClone. I do remember that it was "pretty good" for most things on basic G8s, it uses the same HIK solver, but the solver is not the whole story.

    Tutorials exist, you just have to know that what you want to know is called "Characterization" in Autodesk parlance. It is the act of telling the software how to convert your mocap data to its internal representation, and then from the internal representation to your target skeleton. So you need to characterize both the mocap data and your character. This process is kind of a pain, but not so bad; you only have to do it once for each skeleton. But appreciate that that means that any time you adjust your skeleton for a different actor in your mocap software, you'll have to re-characterize it.

  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,643
    edited June 2020

    Ken (free nomon) on YouTube has a couple iPhone/iPad plugins hopefully in July/August here at Daz. It will save you money from iClone and 3DXchange as they will be under or around $100 for Genesis 3 or 8. One is Face Mojo and the other Mixamojo can work with files from Mixamo (of course you'll need the iPhone or iPad with the depth cam for Facemojo). Read through the YouTube comments as he has mentioned some details and possible deals.

     

     

     

    Post edited by Kevin Sanderson on
  • champx2345champx2345 Posts: 24
    TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

    If you live in the right geographic regions, Maya can be gotten for indie pricing of $249 a year. That's the cheapest solution that will work with anything you throw at it, and has the power to allow you to fiddle until the motion is perfect. It's basically the same functionality as Motionbuilder now, and unfortunately there is nothing else that comes close.

    But I have to admit that I no longer remember the reason why I gave up on iClone. I do remember that it was "pretty good" for most things on basic G8s, it uses the same HIK solver, but the solver is not the whole story.

    Tutorials exist, you just have to know that what you want to know is called "Characterization" in Autodesk parlance. It is the act of telling the software how to convert your mocap data to its internal representation, and then from the internal representation to your target skeleton. So you need to characterize both the mocap data and your character. This process is kind of a pain, but not so bad; you only have to do it once for each skeleton. But appreciate that that means that any time you adjust your skeleton for a different actor in your mocap software, you'll have to re-characterize it.

    I am starting to see tutorials that explain characterization, thank you for giving me the correct terminology. Once the character is complete for mocap I'm noticing that it's still difficult to get the mocap character back into Daz to then assign the animation the Gen 8 model. It looks like Daz doesn't accept certain FBX types. It looks like if everything is done correctly you can assign the animation from the mocap character to a Gen 8 in Daz using pose preset or aniblocks I think. If this is incorrect please let me know. I also noticed that there may be a solution coming from the Daz community to the Daz store in the coming month or year and that would be awesome. 

     

  • Bryan SteagallBryan Steagall Posts: 233

    Hi Campx2345

    I have this tutorial, that shows my workflow from daz to motionbuilder to daz (should work for Maya too, as it would be the same fbx)  Fbx files exported out of daz have a prefix on the morphs (usually head__ or Genesis8Male/Female__).  These files, once imported back and saved as a properties preset, (which will save the animation), you have to edit the .duf to remove this prefix (easy, a search and replace in a text editor like wordpad)   https://vimeo.com/227139373

    Hope this helps

  • TheMysteryIsThePointTheMysteryIsThePoint Posts: 2,892

    @champx2345 I hope you figure this out. G8s look incredible with mocap data.

    I don't see any point in using FBX when all I want is the bone rotations, so I've always just imported BVH onto the character.

    As I understand it, Mixamojo is not a general mocap retargeting solution, but rather for Mixamo's canned animations. I'm going to buy it regardless because being able to tweak Mixamo animations and having them work on G8s would be extremely useful, but I hope it can do more.

  • champx2345champx2345 Posts: 24
    edited June 2020
    TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

    @champx2345 I hope you figure this out. G8s look incredible with mocap data.

    I don't see any point in using FBX when all I want is the bone rotations, so I've always just imported BVH onto the character.

    As I understand it, Mixamojo is not a general mocap retargeting solution, but rather for Mixamo's canned animations. I'm going to buy it regardless because being able to tweak Mixamo animations and having them work on G8s would be extremely useful, but I hope it can do more.

    I spoke with free nomon and he will be helping me to map mocap data from Rokoko to Gen 8. Hopfully I can share what I've learned with the community in the near future. I appreciate everyone placing me in the right direction. Onto making this work. 

     

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,919

    BVH is all you need and what should be imported i to DAZ studio onto the skeleton but often to get that BVH retargetted to work with a DAZ figure you need it in FBX format, I myself can do so easily using Carrara that will import just BVH and create a skeleton, not all softwares will.

    There are many ways to skin a rat, using BVHacker and renaming bones another way that can work if rig proportions similar.

    Reallusion has 30 day trials too if you wish to explore that route.

    Always take advantage of trials, I have even tried MAX and Maya as well as countless other softwares.

  • TheMysteryIsThePointTheMysteryIsThePoint Posts: 2,892
    champx2345 said:

    I spoke with free nomon and he will be helping me to map mocap data from Rokoko to Gen 8. Hopfully I can share what I've learned with the community in the near future. I appreciate everyone placing me in the right direction. Onto making this work. 

     

    That sounds awesome. The principles should apply to other skeletons. Please do share what you learn. But working with Rokoko requires a moderate amount of cleanup to fixs pops and drift that, because of the density of the keyframes, would be extremely inconvenient to fix in Daz Studio. There's a discussion in another thread about how bad Daz Studio is for animation and I'm afraid its difficiencies are intensified when you have a keyframe per frame, as with mocap data. You're still going to need real animation software that supports layers.

  • champx2345champx2345 Posts: 24
    Bryan Steagall said:

     

     

     

    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    BVH is all you need and what should be imported i to DAZ studio onto the skeleton but often to get that BVH retargetted to work with a DAZ figure you need it in FBX format, I myself can do so easily using Carrara that will import just BVH and create a skeleton, not all softwares will.

    There are many ways to skin a rat, using BVHacker and renaming bones another way that can work if rig proportions similar.

    Reallusion has 30 day trials too if you wish to explore that route.

    Always take advantage of trials, I have even tried MAX and Maya as well as countless other softwares.

    Yeah it does look like BVH would be the best route, I noticed Maya doesnt export bvh unless there is a plugin for it. 

     

  • FirePro9FirePro9 Posts: 455

    I would trust Wendy.  For mocap from suits like Rokoko or Notiom's Perception Neuron suit the number of bones/sensors is small compared to the number of bones in Gen3/8, so best to start your BVH import with G1F.  You only have to map the bones from the Mocap software to DAZ once.  The bone mapping is the only real trick with getting the data into DS from these mocap suits.  I have the kickstarter version of the Perception Neuron suit.  You can download sample files from their website.  Here is the bone mapping to get it into DS:

    The following are the 7 bones that I have found that need to be remapped:
    a.    SPINE 3 ----->  CHEST
    b.    LEFT SHOULDER -----> LEFT COLLAR
    c.    LEFT ARM -----> LEFT SHOULDER
    d.    LEFT FOREARM -----> LEFT FOREARM
    e.    RIGHT SHOULDER ----> RIGHT COLLAR
    f.     RIGHT ARM -----> RIGHT SHOULDER
    g.    RIGHT FOREARM -----> RIGHT FOREARM

    Lastly, as Wendy said, once your got G1 animation then pretty easy to go to G2, G3 & G8.  Here is link to thread==> https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/250726/so-if-an-animation-is-saved-using-genesis-it-works-on-genesis-3/p1

    For more on Perception Neuron import to DS see my post here: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/61827/motion-capture-perception-neuron-daz-import

    Good luck with your animation adventures!

  • champx2345champx2345 Posts: 24
    FirePro9 said:

    I would trust Wendy.  For mocap from suits like Rokoko or Notiom's Perception Neuron suit the number of bones/sensors is small compared to the number of bones in Gen3/8, so best to start your BVH import with G1F.  You only have to map the bones from the Mocap software to DAZ once.  The bone mapping is the only real trick with getting the data into DS from these mocap suits.  I have the kickstarter version of the Perception Neuron suit.  You can download sample files from their website.  Here is the bone mapping to get it into DS:

    The following are the 7 bones that I have found that need to be remapped:
    a.    SPINE 3 ----->  CHEST
    b.    LEFT SHOULDER -----> LEFT COLLAR
    c.    LEFT ARM -----> LEFT SHOULDER
    d.    LEFT FOREARM -----> LEFT FOREARM
    e.    RIGHT SHOULDER ----> RIGHT COLLAR
    f.     RIGHT ARM -----> RIGHT SHOULDER
    g.    RIGHT FOREARM -----> RIGHT FOREARM

    Lastly, as Wendy said, once your got G1 animation then pretty easy to go to G2, G3 & G8.  Here is link to thread==> https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/250726/so-if-an-animation-is-saved-using-genesis-it-works-on-genesis-3/p1

    For more on Perception Neuron import to DS see my post here: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/61827/motion-capture-perception-neuron-daz-import

    Good luck with your animation adventures!

    WOW! thank you for that info extremely helpful. I deeply appreciate everyone's input.

  • pretendforreal_707d4f4a31pretendforreal_707d4f4a31 Posts: 47

    Hi! Anyone retargeting retargettig mocap to Gen 8 figures in Blender?

     
    I am loving the rig and shape morphs that come across into Blender with the new Daz Blender Bridge. BUt I'm looking for some easy ways to apply Mixamo and iMotion data to the character from within Blender? Any one working on that work flow.

    Maybe using the Rokoko retargeting add-on to retargeting Mixamo and iMotion data to the Daz rig? I haven't been successful doing that so far. 

  • TheMysteryIsThePointTheMysteryIsThePoint Posts: 2,892

    Oh man, this is HUGE. The part on retargeting starts at 11:18.

    Houdini takes on Character Animation

    This could actually be a Motionbuilder replacement. And Houdini Apprentice is FREE.

     

  • JoltrastJoltrast Posts: 199
    champx2345 said:
    TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

     

    I spoke with free nomon and he will be helping me to map mocap data from Rokoko to Gen 8. Hopfully I can share what I've learned with the community in the near future. I appreciate everyone placing me in the right direction. Onto making this work. 

    I would love to know what you've learned. Especially as I don't own a phone with a depth camera (yet).

     

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