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Why must it be so hard to connect with content creators on this forum?!!

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  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,313
    nicstt said:
    1gecko said:
    Cybersox said:

    A few other things that should be pointed out - 

    1 - a lot of the PAs do not speak English as a native language.  GoogleTranslate works okay for translating e-mails about 60 percent of the time, but it's completely unsuited for technical discussions. 

    2 - a number of PAs are semi-retired, retired from content making or, sadly, no longer with us.  Many of those stores are now being run by family, who continue to make the products available, but have no technical background with DAZ products.

     

    both *extremely* good points!

     

    .. and also, much of the time they are on their computers they are working at creating their products or working on their *own* art (instead of reading forums)!

    * I guess DAZ has not supplied them with a "Make Content" button any more than they have given us that "Make Art" button!!  Get on the ball, Richard! ;)

     

    Just think, a Make Content Button, Take Payment Button, A Make Art Button.

    Let Daz have all those and we could just log in check our bank balance was being deducted accordingly, and check to see what images we had created whilst we were away doing something else.

    Unfortunately that seems to be the way things are going in many contexts.  Automation is good when it takes care of the boring stuff or accomplishes things we aren't capable of ourselves but otherwise not. 

  • EllessarrEllessarr Posts: 1,395

    to be fair the forum search tool really need a "improviment" because compared with others forums which i go and use, this one is really a lot far behind in search, were things like search for "user" or search for topic, or search for more precise context" do have while here as others noted based on your search you will be screwed and can probably ending "dying in a apocalipse zombie" before you can find what you are looking for, due to how "tooo simple and basic the search is.

  • Sensual ArtSensual Art Posts: 646
    Leana said:
    Cybersox said:
    Divamakeup said:
    Ellessarr said:

    yeah i'm also have some issues with the "lack of communication" with some daz PAs, because sometimes when try to use the "ticket system" i get the "you must contact the PA

    Support told you to contact the PA? That's highly unusual. It must have been because of an odd request or something? 

    On the other hand, it's the standard response at Renderosity, even when you're just asking for a refund. 

    At Rendo vendors handle their own customer support. At Daz they pay Daz to do it.

    Daz CS cannot fix/modify any PA product since the PA own the copyright to their products (unless its a DO as well). Besides, Daz keeps commission as a publisher and broker of sales. It wouldn't be profitable for them to allocate any of their own resources to fix PA products unless it was a DO as well. If its a metadata or packaging issue then its a different matter. Mediating customer and vendor communication should not be the responsibility of the broker unless they are trying to "regulate" the communication.

    Rendo doesn't have to deal with metadata and packaging issues with their Daz Studio products and they do not want to mediate communication between vendors and customers which save a lot of communication delays and ambiguities. It also allows their CS to utilize their bandwidth for addressing more important/urgent tasks. I am not surprised that their CS resolution times have almost always been faster than Daz.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 13,224
    mrinal said:
    Leana said:
    Cybersox said:
    Divamakeup said:
    Ellessarr said:

    yeah i'm also have some issues with the "lack of communication" with some daz PAs, because sometimes when try to use the "ticket system" i get the "you must contact the PA

    Support told you to contact the PA? That's highly unusual. It must have been because of an odd request or something? 

    On the other hand, it's the standard response at Renderosity, even when you're just asking for a refund. 

    At Rendo vendors handle their own customer support. At Daz they pay Daz to do it.

    Daz CS cannot fix/modify any PA product since the PA own the copyright to their products (unless its a DO as well). Besides, Daz keeps commission as a publisher and broker of sales. It wouldn't be profitable for them to allocate any of their own resources to fix PA products unless it was a DO as well. If its a metadata or packaging issue then its a different matter. Mediating customer and vendor communication should not be the responsibility of the broker unless they are trying to "regulate" the communication.

    I never said they fixed products. They handle all queries which can be be solved without immediate need for the PA, and troubleshooting. They contact the PA when they are actually needed to fix something.

    That's how most support centers are organized, with tiered groups handling different levels of support and only contacting experts (in this case PAs) if there's no way to solve the problem without them. And it's usually way more efficient than having a single person spending all their time handling all types of requests rather than working on what they're actually good at (in this case producing content).

    And given how nasty some customers can be, not having to deal with them directly all the time is a definite advantage.

    mrinal said:

     I am not surprised that their CS resolution times have almost always been faster than Daz.

    Definitely not in my experience...

  • Sensual ArtSensual Art Posts: 646
    Leana said:
    mrinal said:
    Leana said:
    Cybersox said:
    Divamakeup said:
    Ellessarr said:

    yeah i'm also have some issues with the "lack of communication" with some daz PAs, because sometimes when try to use the "ticket system" i get the "you must contact the PA

    Support told you to contact the PA? That's highly unusual. It must have been because of an odd request or something? 

    On the other hand, it's the standard response at Renderosity, even when you're just asking for a refund. 

    At Rendo vendors handle their own customer support. At Daz they pay Daz to do it.

    Daz CS cannot fix/modify any PA product since the PA own the copyright to their products (unless its a DO as well). Besides, Daz keeps commission as a publisher and broker of sales. It wouldn't be profitable for them to allocate any of their own resources to fix PA products unless it was a DO as well. If its a metadata or packaging issue then its a different matter. Mediating customer and vendor communication should not be the responsibility of the broker unless they are trying to "regulate" the communication.

    I never said they fixed products. They handle all queries which can be be solved without immediate need for the PA, and troubleshooting. They contact the PA when they are actually needed to fix something.

    That's how most support centers are organized, with tiered groups handling different levels of support and only contacting experts (in this case PAs) if there's no way to solve the problem without them. And it's usually way more efficient than having a single person spending all their time handling all types of requests rather than working on what they're actually good at (in this case producing content).

    Tiered support is suitable for generic products and services which are targetted for mass consumption since the average customer knowledge is presumably lower in such cases. But for niche markets like 3D content marketplace, cutomer knowledge cannot be presumed to be low enough to justify tiered customer support. Sure, there are always new/first time users who need to ramped up but for the majority of folks here mediating is not required when they need to communicate with PAs.

  • ChangelingChickChangelingChick Posts: 3,410
    mrinal said:
    Leana said:
    Cybersox said:
    Divamakeup said:
    Ellessarr said:

    Thyeah i'm also have some issues with the "lack of communication" with some daz PAs, because sometimes when try to use the "ticket system" i get the "you must contact the PA

    Support told you to contact the PA? That's highly unusual. It must have been because of an odd request or something? 

    On the other hand, it's the standard response at Renderosity, even when you're just asking for a refund. 

    At Rendo vendors handle their own customer support. At Daz they pay Daz to do it.

    Daz CS cannot fix/modify any PA product since the PA own the copyright to their products (unless its a DO as well). Besides, Daz keeps commission as a publisher and broker of sales. It wouldn't be profitable for them to allocate any of their own resources to fix PA products unless it was a DO as well. If its a metadata or packaging issue then its a different matter. Mediating customer and vendor communication should not be the responsibility of the broker unless they are trying to "regulate" the communication.

     

    This isn't accurate. There are several parts of our products that are, in fact, their responsibility to fix, and they can fix other things that go wrong with our products and often do. I have absolutely gotten fixes for my own products show up in DIM that I had nothing to do with.

     

    And given how nasty some customers can be, not having to deal with them directly all the time is a definite advantage.

     

    You have no idea.

    There is legitimate feedback. There is also a *lot* of personal preference. And there's also, "You should cut off your hands and die." 

    Yes, I've gotten that last one. Yes, I will happily split my money with Daz to not get it in the future.

  • MeneerWolfmanMeneerWolfman Posts: 431
    Serene Night said:

    I find the process for getting products fixed by daz, in a timely way, and to get in touch with pas for bug resolution to be problematic.

    I'm still waiting 5 months for a fix to the Yvanovich bun hair, which doesn't parent properly. I also had an issue with a bodymorph. It was confirmed by QA but it was affecting my character's teeth. I wanted to use the product. I finally asked about it since the PA was active in the forum. They fixed it immeadiatly.

    I want to follow the process. But it feels like once a sale is made, its up to us to fix products, and some pas aren't even getting notified of issues. So tickets sort of sit in limbo. 

    I think pas should not have to deal with customer queries. But at the same time customers need to have som resolution to bugs, even if they aren't a huge priority for the store. Waiting 5 months to get a hair fixed really isn't acceptable standard. And yes, I can fix it myself, but thats not the point. 

    All of this. I've found on multiple occassions that Daz has just given me a generic "We'll add it to the bug list" and _ZIP_ tends to happen. Most vendors I know and talk to don't want their products to be bad. If we have a bad experience then we don't buy their products again and that costs them revenue. That and most have pride in their work and don't want a broken product out there. Most vendors fixed the problem within hours to days after I've messaged them about it. 

    Not to mention Daz Q&A has been pretty worthless the past year or so. As a customer of almost 10 years here, I've never bought more buggy things than I have this year.

  • tsroemitsroemi Posts: 3,544
    Ellessarr said:
    Divamakeup said:
    Ellessarr said:
    Leana said:
    Cybersox said:
    Divamakeup said:
    Ellessarr said:

    yeah i'm also have some issues with the "lack of communication" with some daz PAs, because sometimes when try to use the "ticket system" i get the "you must contact the PA

    Support told you to contact the PA? That's highly unusual. It must have been because of an odd request or something? 

    On the other hand, it's the standard response at Renderosity, even when you're just asking for a refund. 

    At Rendo vendors handle their own customer support. At Daz they pay Daz to do it.

    and that is when enter the " weird contradiction" because if daz i payed to do it, why only "some of them" can do "some of those oods and in others cases do nothing", if daz support was supposed to do full support then they were supposed to handle those stuffs too not say 'go look for the vendor".

    Hmmm Reading your above requests, it doesn't sound like those are actual product issues, or issues with the product functioning the way they're meant to in Daz Studio. Most Daz3D products are pretty much designed for use inside Daz Studio, so if one wants to use the products for something like importing into Unreal you'd have to expect that you'll have to do some manual adjustments to get it there. I can see why support wouldn't handle those specific requests, because they're a little bit unreasonable, imo, (particularly things like wanting a PA to rename all their files so that you can import them into a different program easier). Renaming files breaks pretty much everything for a product - every single material preset, and all the texture pathways etc. That likely would mean a PA would have to resave everything or go in and rewrite all the pathways in all the presets. These are the kinds of requests that it's completely understandable why Support wouldn't handle them, because they're not exactly issues with the products themselves. Expecting a PA do to those things is, imo, a bit unreasonable. 

    i'm not saying which i'm not understand why they don't provide in some cases, like this one of the textures and for that cases i can understand go for the vendor to get a support even if him/her refuse which i can understand too, the issue for me is if it is not reasonable or not, but "why he can't contact or help me contact the PA", that is the issue, if it's a case were only the PA can do something them they are supposed to pass the case to the vendor or try to help me reach/contact the vendor to see if him/he can do something and in others cases like the license is clear a case were they can provide support in "some cases" but choose to don't do since as i told some peoples from the support do that while others don't which is really weird and the worst is more often i get ending the support from the "no" peoples making my ticket meanless,

     

    going back to the "texture, for my case was more like a "feedback", about what they could do in the future, like if possible avoid do in that way and things like that, because while inside daz it work at no issue outside it can have issues and for peoples which normally don't know how to fix it themselfs or have dificultiy to ask for support can be bad, for me was fine because in the end i've ended learning how to deal myself with most of my issue in daz and to be honest my only current real deal is without any doubt the "license issue" were products which normally would have it(daz original) don't have and the support is not really want to do that in most of the cases(at last the "no" peoples). leading me to have to ask countless times until i can get in touch with someone whch will do that, the issue really ends in "get in contact" or if they could contact the vendor, which is were really lies the big problem for me.

    I think what people here are trying to tell you is that dealing with these issues or suggestions that you have - as interesting as they may be to you personally - does simply not come under the heading of „support“. Therefore, neither the PA nor DAZ are under any obligation to deal with them, and neither is DAZ obliged to pass on your suggestions to the PA in question, because what DAZ promises to give is just that, support.

    „Support“ means helping you if things just don‘t work as promised, or if you can‘t figure it out for yourself rightaway, or if things are missing or downright broken. If you buy a T-Shirt at Amazon, you don‘t expect to be put through to the original manufacturers if you feel that the logo should be in different colors, do you? You buy things as they are, and that’s basically all. They might provide ways for you to give feedback, but they don‘t have to, and you wouldn‘t expect Nike or Gap or somesuchlike to listen to your suggestions. Why expect so much more from the DAZ PAs?

    I agree with you that it would be nice at times to be able to discuss things with a PA, and some, as has already been pointed out, are indeed very accessible through the forums. But that is their personal decision and a kind of extra they provide; not the „standard service“ you can rightfully expect. See what I mean? 

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,939
    edited June 2020

    it is a premier artist's right to set the conditions of usage for their creations

    as much as you might like to use it to make a game many are vehemently opposed to their products being used that way

    I have in my 3D experience even met content creators who were against their products being rendered in other software than a specific one they made it for!

    knew one Poser user whose free stuff he did not want to be used in DAZ studio for example 

    it is entirely their choice, we only have permissions to do renders and at least all DAZ store content allows that in any software 

    game creation use is just a bonus with a license for some and they probably don't wish to argue about it

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • EllessarrEllessarr Posts: 1,395
    edited June 2020
    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    it is a premier artist's right to set the conditions of usage for their creations

    as much as you might like to use it to make a game many are vehemently opposed to their products being used that way

    I have in my 3D experience even met content creators who were against their products being rendered in other software than a specific one they made it for!

    knew one Poser user whose free stuff he did not want to be used in DAZ studio for example 

    it is entirely their choice, we only have permissions to do renders and at least all DAZ store content allows that in any software 

    game creation use is just a bonus with a license for some and they probably don't wish to argue about it

    to be clear i'm not saying in case of licenses which every product "must have license" and bla bla bla bla, but not all "cases" was because the pa don't want" indeed i've found which most of then were more like a case of "not knowing about the "lincense stuff" or just they never com across with peoples wanting use in game, for what i can get it's only now like 2 or 3 years ago which daz is start to attract "new peoples" from game dev to buy stuffs here since the game enginers improved a lot and can support many of daz stuffs without any issue, then the problem is know when that said person "want or not have his stuffs used", i'm fine with or the support daz team come and say "we speak with the creator and him/her" don't want to have his stuffs used outside daz, or if daz provide a sort of "channel of comunication for me to speak with him or if i could find him myself and that person said that which "don't want to have the stuffs being used", then it's fine, that is what support and comunication is for, the problem is when you can't contact the vendor and don't know if that person really don't want or just never was bothered by it, that is the real issue, "lack of proper communication", i'm not saying or deny they right to "not want" but just want to know if this is the case of they really don't want or just lack of knowledge/communication, as i told i've foun some daz PA artist which didn't know about the change in the "license rules" and only after i pointed out they changed everything, not because "they don't wanted but just because they didn't know about the need to add the license in he product, whic is the poblem, if you can understand.

     

    i will give you a exemple Lady little fox PA

    https://www.daz3d.com/lady-littlefox

    in the past her "at last old stuffs" ddidn't have a interective license, not because "she don't wanted" but because she just ddon't know about it and in the moment i could contact her and explained to her the stuffs she happy accepted and asked the person in charge to add then because "she don't know" not because she don't wanted" and that is my issue which i do need to "contact or ask to daz to contact the pa to know if him/her want or not or will add or not the license, if indeed don't want then close case no issue from me but i must at last know that.

     

     

    tsroemi said:
    Ellessarr said:
    Divamakeup said:
    Ellessarr said:
    Leana said:
    Cybersox said:
    Divamakeup said:
    Ellessarr said:

    yeah i'm also have some issues with the "lack of communication" with some daz PAs, because sometimes when try to use the "ticket system" i get the "you must contact the PA

    Support told you to contact the PA? That's highly unusual. It must have been because of an odd request or something? 

    On the other hand, it's the standard response at Renderosity, even when you're just asking for a refund. 

    At Rendo vendors handle their own customer support. At Daz they pay Daz to do it.

    and that is when enter the " weird contradiction" because if daz i payed to do it, why only "some of them" can do "some of those oods and in others cases do nothing", if daz support was supposed to do full support then they were supposed to handle those stuffs too not say 'go look for the vendor".

    Hmmm Reading your above requests, it doesn't sound like those are actual product issues, or issues with the product functioning the way they're meant to in Daz Studio. Most Daz3D products are pretty much designed for use inside Daz Studio, so if one wants to use the products for something like importing into Unreal you'd have to expect that you'll have to do some manual adjustments to get it there. I can see why support wouldn't handle those specific requests, because they're a little bit unreasonable, imo, (particularly things like wanting a PA to rename all their files so that you can import them into a different program easier). Renaming files breaks pretty much everything for a product - every single material preset, and all the texture pathways etc. That likely would mean a PA would have to resave everything or go in and rewrite all the pathways in all the presets. These are the kinds of requests that it's completely understandable why Support wouldn't handle them, because they're not exactly issues with the products themselves. Expecting a PA do to those things is, imo, a bit unreasonable. 

    i'm not saying which i'm not understand why they don't provide in some cases, like this one of the textures and for that cases i can understand go for the vendor to get a support even if him/her refuse which i can understand too, the issue for me is if it is not reasonable or not, but "why he can't contact or help me contact the PA", that is the issue, if it's a case were only the PA can do something them they are supposed to pass the case to the vendor or try to help me reach/contact the vendor to see if him/he can do something and in others cases like the license is clear a case were they can provide support in "some cases" but choose to don't do since as i told some peoples from the support do that while others don't which is really weird and the worst is more often i get ending the support from the "no" peoples making my ticket meanless,

     

    going back to the "texture, for my case was more like a "feedback", about what they could do in the future, like if possible avoid do in that way and things like that, because while inside daz it work at no issue outside it can have issues and for peoples which normally don't know how to fix it themselfs or have dificultiy to ask for support can be bad, for me was fine because in the end i've ended learning how to deal myself with most of my issue in daz and to be honest my only current real deal is without any doubt the "license issue" were products which normally would have it(daz original) don't have and the support is not really want to do that in most of the cases(at last the "no" peoples). leading me to have to ask countless times until i can get in touch with someone whch will do that, the issue really ends in "get in contact" or if they could contact the vendor, which is were really lies the big problem for me.

    I think what people here are trying to tell you is that dealing with these issues or suggestions that you have - as interesting as they may be to you personally - does simply not come under the heading of „support“. Therefore, neither the PA nor DAZ are under any obligation to deal with them, and neither is DAZ obliged to pass on your suggestions to the PA in question, because what DAZ promises to give is just that, support.

    „Support“ means helping you if things just don‘t work as promised, or if you can‘t figure it out for yourself rightaway, or if things are missing or downright broken. If you buy a T-Shirt at Amazon, you don‘t expect to be put through to the original manufacturers if you feel that the logo should be in different colors, do you? You buy things as they are, and that’s basically all. They might provide ways for you to give feedback, but they don‘t have to, and you wouldn‘t expect Nike or Gap or somesuchlike to listen to your suggestions. Why expect so much more from the DAZ PAs?

    I agree with you that it would be nice at times to be able to discuss things with a PA, and some, as has already been pointed out, are indeed very accessible through the forums. But that is their personal decision and a kind of extra they provide; not the „standard service“ you can rightfully expect. See what I mean? 

    yeah i know but than they at last must make clear which i can't get support for this no matter "the source" be the daz support or the PA not just say to me to look for the PA, which is the issue, if they know which neither can give just say which this is something i can't get neither from daz or the PA, as i told the issue is not "about Do the issue" but how it is worked which in some cases it is confuse due to proper explanations and to be far in some cases were i needed help were daz support could not give to me i've ended getting from the artist which was nice.

    Post edited by Ellessarr on
  • LeanaLeana Posts: 13,224

    Tiered support is suitable for generic products and services which are targetted for mass consumption since the average customer knowledge is presumably lower in such cases. But for niche markets like 3D content marketplace, cutomer knowledge cannot be presumed to be low enough to justify tiered customer support. Sure, there are always new/first time users who need to ramped up but for the majority of folks here mediating is not required when they need to communicate with PAs.

    Sorry, no. Tiered support can definitely be applied in markets like ours.
    There are tons of problems related to content which can be solved without the PAs, and there's zero value added if the PA is handling them directly. 
     

    ChangelingChick said:

    And given how nasty some customers can be, not having to deal with them directly all the time is a definite advantage.

    You have no idea.

    There is legitimate feedback. There is also a *lot* of personal preference. And there's also, "You should cut off your hands and die." 

    Yes, I've gotten that last one. Yes, I will happily split my money with Daz to not get it in the future.

    Wow... So sorry you had to deal with that one. Some people really have serious issues... sad 

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,939

    yes PAs on Facebook have said they have gotten death threats angry

  • EllessarrEllessarr Posts: 1,395
    ChangelingChick said:
    mrinal said:
    Leana said:
    Cybersox said:
    Divamakeup said:
    Ellessarr said:

    Thyeah i'm also have some issues with the "lack of communication" with some daz PAs, because sometimes when try to use the "ticket system" i get the "you must contact the PA

    Support told you to contact the PA? That's highly unusual. It must have been because of an odd request or something? 

    On the other hand, it's the standard response at Renderosity, even when you're just asking for a refund. 

    At Rendo vendors handle their own customer support. At Daz they pay Daz to do it.

    Daz CS cannot fix/modify any PA product since the PA own the copyright to their products (unless its a DO as well). Besides, Daz keeps commission as a publisher and broker of sales. It wouldn't be profitable for them to allocate any of their own resources to fix PA products unless it was a DO as well. If its a metadata or packaging issue then its a different matter. Mediating customer and vendor communication should not be the responsibility of the broker unless they are trying to "regulate" the communication.

     

    This isn't accurate. There are several parts of our products that are, in fact, their responsibility to fix, and they can fix other things that go wrong with our products and often do. I have absolutely gotten fixes for my own products show up in DIM that I had nothing to do with.

     

    And given how nasty some customers can be, not having to deal with them directly all the time is a definite advantage.

     

    You have no idea.

    There is legitimate feedback. There is also a *lot* of personal preference. And there's also, "You should cut off your hands and die." 

    Yes, I've gotten that last one. Yes, I will happily split my money with Daz to not get it in the future.

    wow this is something really sad, but is a sad true today with the tooooooooooooooooooo and place a lot more of "o" in that to, many polarized world, were everyone is owner of the truth and you must agree with that person otherwise you know, what is why i'm totally out of social media, like facebook, twitter and others places, they are just "nasty" places being honest full of hatred from both sides were if you don't agree with one you are called names and bla bla bla...

     

    peoples must respect each other and one thing is giving a feedback or opnion" another is turning your "opnion' in law and force others do what you want, its really bad.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,939

    YouTube is bad enough and people are watching my channel for free by choice

    I have had to block a lot of people

    so I can imagine how bad it is for people selling stuff

  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310
    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    YouTube is bad enough and people are watching my channel for free by choice

    I have had to block a lot of people

    so I can imagine how bad it is for people selling stuff

    Amongst all the awful social medias Youtube comments truly stand alone as the absolute nadir.

     

    Generally I find social media with stated moderation rules that are enforced consistently tend to be the only ones that work. even if the moderation is just "no slurs or death threats" it turns out the sort of people who use slurs when they get upset are also the people who make sites unpleasant even when they are on their "best behavior" so as they get banned the conversation improves everywhere.

     

    (this is why I'm okay with the blanket ban on cursing here, while I enjoy some judicious use of profanity, I am perfectly capable of the self control to refrain from it, and the sort of people who lack that self control make things more less fun than the fun of swearing)

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 12,045
    j cade said:
    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    YouTube is bad enough and people are watching my channel for free by choice

    I have had to block a lot of people

    so I can imagine how bad it is for people selling stuff

    Amongst all the awful social medias Youtube comments truly stand alone as the absolute nadir.

     

    Generally I find social media with stated moderation rules that are enforced consistently tend to be the only ones that work. even if the moderation is just "no slurs or death threats" it turns out the sort of people who use slurs when they get upset are also the people who make sites unpleasant even when they are on their "best behavior" so as they get banned the conversation improves everywhere.

     

    (this is why I'm okay with the blanket ban on cursing here, while I enjoy some judicious use of profanity, I am perfectly capable of the self control to refrain from it, and the sort of people who lack that self control make things more less fun than the fun of swearing)

    I've never thought of that, but I think you're completely right. Just weeding out cursing (and repeat offenders of that alone), I'm sure can make a big difference on a forum. As, I think you're right, those who can't control themselves enough not to type out cuss words and post them, are probably the majority of the type of people that constantly cause other problems on a forum. Banning just cursing and threats on a forum alone can probably go a long way.

  • AlricAlric Posts: 125
    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    YouTube is bad enough and people are watching my channel for free by choice

    I have had to block a lot of people

    so I can imagine how bad it is for people selling stuff

    Waaaaaaay back in the mists of time, before DAZ Studio, back in the Poser Pros days. I tried releasing a few simple freebie props for the original Aiko and Hiro(?) figures. I didn't get anything as bad as death threats but the amount of vitriol was shocking. Convinced me that I didn't want to try selling things, or make more freebies for that matter.

  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 1,641
    ainuke said:

    Am I missing a link somewhere to connect with the creator of productX, or even the specific forum for asking questions? The store page for that author only has a link to their products, and any of the Info links in DS only bring you to the store page or documentation. 

    I realize that many creators have threads about their products for discussion, but you'd never know it from using the forum search bar. For instance, I am having an issue with Auto Face Enhancer Genesis 8 Female(s) by D.Master. putting any of these terms into the search bar starts of the results with every single incidence of the word "auto". Similarly, searches for "d.master" come up with every possible iteration of "master" rather than, you know, even a list of posts that D.Master has replied to, much less all his products.

    I can appreciate that the tech staff at DAZ should be handling code and programming issues, but it doesn't seem too much to ask that each store item (once purchased) have a forum link or an email address for product-specific support.

    Thanks for the space to rant. I'm now going to put out a general question to the overall community about my AFE issue, rather than search through endless pages of every single use of the word "auto" in every single post on every single thread, ever.

    frown

    Some creators have a home here and at Renderosity. If so, go there. I have been in contact with many over the years.

    If you're polite, concise, and don't abuse the connection, you should have no trouble reaching your artist.
  • magog_a4eb71abmagog_a4eb71ab Posts: 769
    ainuke said:

    Am I missing a link somewhere to connect with the creator of productX, or even the specific forum for asking questions? The store page for that author only has a link to their products, and any of the Info links in DS only bring you to the store page or documentation. 

    I realize that many creators have threads about their products for discussion, but you'd never know it from using the forum search bar. For instance, I am having an issue with Auto Face Enhancer Genesis 8 Female(s) by D.Master. putting any of these terms into the search bar starts of the results with every single incidence of the word "auto". Similarly, searches for "d.master" come up with every possible iteration of "master" rather than, you know, even a list of posts that D.Master has replied to, much less all his products.

    I can appreciate that the tech staff at DAZ should be handling code and programming issues, but it doesn't seem too much to ask that each store item (once purchased) have a forum link or an email address for product-specific support.

    Thanks for the space to rant. I'm now going to put out a general question to the overall community about my AFE issue, rather than search through endless pages of every single use of the word "auto" in every single post on every single thread, ever.

    frown

    Depends on which PA you're trying to contact. Not all of them are active in the forums and/or respond. The only time you really should be directly contacting them regarding an issue with one of their products is if all else fails(Daz customer support, forum inquieries, etc.). They just don't have the time to be getting hassled with all the issues from new/inexperienced users that could otherwise be resolved by help in the forums or Daz's customer support.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 23,925
    edited June 2020
    MeneerWolfman said:

    Not to mention Daz Q&A has been pretty worthless the past year or so. As a customer of almost 10 years here, I've never bought more buggy things than I have this year.

    +1 . Low quality items with problems getting through aplenty compared to previous years. 

    Post edited by Novica on
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,863
    Alric said:
    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    YouTube is bad enough and people are watching my channel for free by choice

    I have had to block a lot of people

    so I can imagine how bad it is for people selling stuff

    Waaaaaaay back in the mists of time, before DAZ Studio, back in the Poser Pros days. I tried releasing a few simple freebie props for the original Aiko and Hiro(?) figures. I didn't get anything as bad as death threats but the amount of vitriol was shocking. Convinced me that I didn't want to try selling things, or make more freebies for that matter.

    Wow!

  • Sensual ArtSensual Art Posts: 646
    ChangelingChick said:
    mrinal said:
    Leana said:
    Cybersox said:
    Divamakeup said:
    Ellessarr said:

    Thyeah i'm also have some issues with the "lack of communication" with some daz PAs, because sometimes when try to use the "ticket system" i get the "you must contact the PA

    Support told you to contact the PA? That's highly unusual. It must have been because of an odd request or something? 

    On the other hand, it's the standard response at Renderosity, even when you're just asking for a refund. 

    At Rendo vendors handle their own customer support. At Daz they pay Daz to do it.

    Daz CS cannot fix/modify any PA product since the PA own the copyright to their products (unless its a DO as well). Besides, Daz keeps commission as a publisher and broker of sales. It wouldn't be profitable for them to allocate any of their own resources to fix PA products unless it was a DO as well. If its a metadata or packaging issue then its a different matter. Mediating customer and vendor communication should not be the responsibility of the broker unless they are trying to "regulate" the communication.

     

    This isn't accurate. There are several parts of our products that are, in fact, their responsibility to fix, and they can fix other things that go wrong with our products and often do. I have absolutely gotten fixes for my own products show up in DIM that I had nothing to do with.

    What parts of the PA's product (besides metadata and packaging) are Daz's responsibility? A lot of the time product updates in DIM are related to mere metadata fixes, which for an end-user, would appear as product updates in DIM. Does Daz require PAs to grant copyright permissions for modifying their products (i.e. non-DOs) without their consent?

  • ainukeainuke Posts: 87
    FSMCDesigns said:
    Divamakeup said:
    Ellessarr said:
    Leana said:
    Cybersox said:
    Divamakeup said:
    Ellessarr said:

    Totally agree. I couldn't work customer service, did it once and I was tempted to tell some unreasonable customers to go to......LOL. I see what our CS rep has to deal with at work and i don't envy her, especially with the pandemic

    You could post that your CS rep is Hellen Waite.

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,705
    edited June 2020

    I don't get negative feedback for any of my freebie props.I would never stop making freebies because of a few people who didn't like them. 

    I also have worked customers service for 25 years. There are occasionally upset people but, for the most part people just want/need help. I understand that, and do try to help them.

    I don't get the luxury of hiding from customers. But there are many in the industry who make things so complicated for customers just because they don't want to deal with them. I think that is wrong.  Typical strategies are long delays, complicated forms, arbitrary rules, and poorly trained frontline staff who just frustrate and inhibit the process. These are transparent strategies though and apparent to customers.

    Post edited by Serene Night on
  • AscaniaAscania Posts: 1,856
    ChangelingChick said:
     

    You have no idea.

    There is legitimate feedback. There is also a *lot* of personal preference. And there's also, "You should cut off your hands and die." 

    Yes, I've gotten that last one. Yes, I will happily split my money with Daz to not get it in the future.

    Out of curiosity, how much "Teach me basic rendering and computer use" type feedback have you received?

  • Roman_K2Roman_K2 Posts: 1,276
    edited June 2020

    I know I personally tend to overlook the user guide (PDF?), instructions, packing list or whatever you get. Sometimes there is also a web page.

    Finally there are sometimes product updates which may be the fix you're looking for.

    Google's advanced search lets you specify a lot of stuff like the exact https://www.daz3d.com/forums URL, and you can add Boolean logic like "and" (keyword) and "but not" (keyword) -- often expressed with a minus sign -this, -that and so on.

    I forget what happened to the content of the "old" forums, the set that went away what, 4-5 years ago.

    I'd like to see a "search by date" feature, in the store, or a little date flag of some sort. Sometimes I want old stuff, and sometimes I don't.

    Post edited by Roman_K2 on
  • ChangelingChickChangelingChick Posts: 3,410
    Ascania said:
    ChangelingChick said:
     

    You have no idea.

    There is legitimate feedback. There is also a *lot* of personal preference. And there's also, "You should cut off your hands and die." 

    Yes, I've gotten that last one. Yes, I will happily split my money with Daz to not get it in the future.

    Out of curiosity, how much "Teach me basic rendering and computer use" type feedback have you received?

    I've not had to tell anyone to turn their mouse around so the tail is going up on here (yes, I've had to do that for someone before). I *have* had to tell people that they need a model selected to apply materials to it. I've also had to explain they have to apply new materials for other makeup options, etc. Everyone was new at this once, and even us vendors lose our brains now and then. I have not gotten *really* basic computer use questions (like you have to turn it on first) on here, but I was in a chat on another site once when a fellow came in and wondered when his bedding would be shipped to him. He apparently thought he'd ordered actual bedding and not 3D bedding. I really felt bad for the guy.

    This kind of highlights something though-- we all tend to take our own knowledge for granted. We just sort of assume that everyone knows what we do. That's why tutorials that work for beginners are so hard for old salts to make. Sickleyield does an amazing job with this, and I know I *still* reference some of her tutorials when I'm making stuff. Customer service really is a skill, and not everyone has it. Teaching and explaining things to people at a different skill level than you is *also* a skill in itself (especially if you don't want to sound condescending doing it). In your head you think, "You just do it," but there could be a dozen steps involved you know instinctually. There are also language barriers for a lot of the vendors. There are certainly a lot of American and British vendors, but there are a *ton* in other countries where English is not their first language. 

    But, we have these forums where everyone tends to be helpful :D There are definitely vendors who watch for issues with their products. Some just aren't computer savvy enough. You'd be surprised how many folks can 3D like mad, but put them in front of a forum or email and their eyes just glaze over. Some just don't have time or lose track. I've got two small kids, and I know I've forgotten I had stuff coming out in the store because I get distracted doing stuff with them.

    Anyway, yeah, I've gotten some real basic questions from people. I definitely try to help, but sometimes it does end up in me giving them tutorial links. 

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,939

    the bedding one has me wondering what else others could mistakenly think they are buying in reallity

    especially seeing pose sets blush

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