Rendering.
alanthompson9187
Posts: 134
in The Commons
Why are my renders so rubbish ? i don't know if it's lighting,composition, subject matter or what ever, each time i spend on a project, the end result is just terrable, any tips on good rendering practices ?
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Post a render or two so we have some idea what might be the problem.
couple of renders attached,
Those definitely don't look terrible to me. What is it you think is lacking about them?
Agreed, you could perhaps try a bit of DOF.
I don't think they're "rubbish" at all. But if you want to tweak them, here are some ideas. In the steampunk one, try making the background a different color tone from the character, She kind of blends into the background as is. Rim lighting can do some cool effects. This is a great product for that https://www.daz3d.com/rim-light-rig-iray I really like the sci-fi one, but you could experiment with the Rim Lighting rig with that one too. I think with just some experimentation with lighting and different color lights and/or tone mapping, you could make your already great renders pop a bit more.But they're definitely not "rubbish!" And don't be afraid to do postwork in Photoshop, Often mediocre renders can be made awesome in post! Contrast, and the burn/dodge brush alone can make a huge difference!
Thank you very much, I will look at the rim lighting and experiment with it Thank You, but I am rubbish in post work, I spend a lot of time on youtube but never seem to get what I'm looking for, I have ssen links from you tube who area active members here with fantastic renders, but you never seem to get a proper tutorial on hown to do things, Just speeded up videos that are too hard to follow most of the time, but I will kep looking, Thank you for taking the time to answere my Post.
I have looked at that rim light rig, it looks great, I have added to my wish list as just can not afford it at the moment, but thanks again for showing me this
Thank you, will try depth of field to the renders.
Great. And don't be afraid to just play and experiment in Photoshop! When I got my first copy many years ago, I never opened a manual or watched a tutorial but just started playing with everything to see what it did. Granted, it was a LOT less complicated back then, but just have fun and try stuff and don't put yourself down so much. The dodge tool adds highlights and the burn tool makes parts darker. You're just basically painting on light and shadows. That combined with contrast/brightness can be enough to really make renders pop! (I'm pretty sure free Gimp also has these tools if you don't have Photoshop. Even free Snapseed app for mobile devices have these basic tools and a lot more! )
WOW - they are hideous, I'd just give up if I were you.
Kidding.
OK, I can see what your talking about,
1st image, you have a mix of bump/normal mapped bits together with smooth bits (corset v's skirt), your missing specular/reflection on the 'smooth' parts as well (same with the machine behind her maybe)
2nd. Image, well if your going to use an outdoor hdr with buildings, trees and sky for an indoor sci fi set, you want shooting. I swear to god, I see a truck.... :)
HDR Haven, get environments that match your scene. There is a very good scifi corridoor somewhere.
Also, post processing in photoshop isn't cheating, you hardly ever get a raw image that looks good, auto levels, manual levels, overlays at 40%, saturation tweaking....
Knowing about post processing is the trick to rendering, You think films are recorded the way they look? They go to a colourist who post processes the film, the raw footage wouldn't make for a good film.
Thank you, but when things like specular/reflection are mention. I am lost, and wouldnt know how to use it if knew what it meant, I also have trouble using older materials in an Iray Render, I see what you mean about using the HDRI lighting, now that wheer i fall down again, I don't know how to light the scene properley, but I'm learning through this forum, I will check YouTube for the specular/reflection part, Thank you.
Daz Studio has built into it everything you need to create your own rim lighting. All rim lighting is, really, is a light set up behind and somewhat above a character, usually somewhat to one side. Then it's a matter of adjusting its luminance and color until you achieve the effect you want.
If you use a spotlight, you can "look through" the spotlight, just as you could through a camera, and that way determine exactly where the light will fall.
Thank you very much, I will attempt this approach and post what Result i get Thank you so much.
I don't think that you are too far off on those images (the robot one looks great) apart from a few details.
You might want to make a thread in the "Art Studio" section of the forums, where you can show work in progress shots as you go, and ask for feedback as you improve areas of a scene.
Thank you, I will give it a go.
Nice renders... don't be so hard on yourself. One thing that you might want to work on is the separation between the foreground image (i.e. main character) and the background image. The background images are a bit too busy, which can be distracting to the main figure in the scene. You may want to play with blurring the backgrounds, darkening the backgrounds, or simplifying the backgrounds. Your main characters will also pop more with a backlight behind them, producing a rim lighitng effect around the character to further help with the separation. The steampunk girl may also benefit by adding some body shadows hitting the floor.
One thing that draws the viewers in with portraits are human eyes. Those are missing in both cases. In the portrait of the woman, try removing the goggles and give the character an interesting expression. That's just one thing, and portraits can work without eyes, but in this portrait I think it would work.
I'll chime in and echo what everyone else has said, your work definitely isn't rubbish!! That's some impressive kit bashing on the steampunk image. One important question that I don't think anyone has asked yet, what sort of style images/renders are you wanting to create, and what do you feel your images are lacking? Maybe posting links to images that show the typical results you are after would help as well. For example, your scifi image is quite good as is .... if that is the style you are after (incorporating the suggestions given so far would improve on what you already have).
I have several suggestions I could make for improving the 3D-ness of your steampunk image, but they would send you in a direction that is more my style. My style is, for lack of a better term, a realistic 3D style. Not to be confused with photorealistic. I like to make my images look very 3D, but not necessarily a photograph of real people (if that makes sense). If your interested, take a quick look through my gallery(s), and let me know if this is similar to the direction you want to go. If it is, I'll break down some things that could help improve the "3D-ness" of your steampunk image, and also help to separate your figure from the background. Link to my galleries are below
Oh ..... no worries if my style isn't what your interested in, and you don't want more help from me. It works for me, but I realize it's not what everyone is after
Just a couple of things that could help your figure stand out better in the steampunk image regardless of style. As others have noted, rim lights help a lot! Also as noted, you don't need to purchase anything, spot lights work very well for rim lights. The other thing that can really help is to have your figure lit more than the background (spot lights help here as well). It's hard to tell for sure, but it looks like your headlamp is on, or your main light source is coming from in front of the figure (near the camera). It's washing out the shadows from any other light sources you have in the image. It should either be turned off, or the intensity greatly reduced. Just these little things will help make your image much more "dramatic".
Thank you DustRider, I am lokking to eventualy be able to create images in a simaller style but not copy such as this artist on Deviant Art who usese Daz, not sure if I.m allowed to post the link or not but here it is. https://www.deviantart.com/leandradawn/gallery/ and any help would much appreciated. Thank You.
There's a lot of postwork on those. For that kind of thing, you'll need to get intimately familiar with either Photoshop, The Gimp, Affinity Photo or some other 2D image editing program.
Thank you, yeah I'm currentley using photoshop and are trying to find a good tutorial on how to get the effects in some of those artworks, but carn't seem to find them.
If you look at the "Posts" section on their DA page, you will see links to their Gumroad stuff, which includes timelapse videos, etc. as well as a link to their Patreon page, which seems kind of inactive now, but perhaps worth spending USD 1.00 on to check out.
The steampunk one could benefit from a rim/back light. Study up on 3 point lighting setups.
I have tried another render with some depth of field and some lighting on the figure.
Like Sevrin noted, I think there is probably a good deal of post work on those images. Post work really isn't one of my strengths beyond some basics. One of the top artists that has been around for quite a long time is Shibashake. He may have a style close to what you're looking for, and has a few turotials that may help. One on basic postwork (about the extent of my skills) can be found here: https://thinkdrawart.com/step-by-step-daz-studio-post-work-tutorial. You can find links to more of his tutorials on his DA page here (click on the image and there is a link to the tutorial in the description): https://www.deviantart.com/shibashake/gallery/62469424/tutorials.
I'll give some quick tips that I think might improve the image, but keep in mind that it's what I would do, and it may or may not be something you would want. Also, it's a good image, much better than a lot that I see posted in the various galleries. However, there are a few things that I think could make it better.
First the lighting. In general the image is rather busy (a lot of bright and light colors), and initially it's hard to determine what the focus is (i.e. your eyes don't automatically go to the figure, you have to think and focus on the figure) DOF does help, but there is no lighting separation of the figure and the background. I can see what looks like rim light highlights, but they sort of loose their dramatic effect because the background is too light. If it was my image, I would reduce the overall scene lighting to make the background darker. Then, depending on the results from reduced background lighting, I might add more light to her left side to help highlight her. There are a few other little things, but this is probably more than enough for now.
I also took the liberty to do a little post work on your image as a quick example how you can quickly change an image with post work. I don't know that I improved it at all, but it does seem to be easier to have initial focus on the figure now. I adjusted levels just a bit, copied the image to a new layer, did an unsharp mask on the new layer and set it's opacity to 25%. I then added vignette to the original layer/image and used a G,Mic "light glow" filter to brighten the figure (this was all done in Gimp).
Post worked Image
Original Image
Just to add something to consider and that's composition. Your character looks like she's about to bump her head against the top of the frame. That can be effective, but I don't think it's what you're looking for here. Also, it's a little awkward to have her feet cut off at the ankles like that.
Maybe try again with a 16:9 aspect ratio with a little more headroom.
Just a heads up that there is tutorial in the fastgrab right now, that deals with everything talked about in this thread :
https://www.daz3d.com/girl-on-a-chair--advanced-daz-studio-tutorial
It's in my cart, so I can't comment on its content yet, but Dreamlight Products are pretty good in my experience.
Thank you everyone, Thnaks for postworking the image DustRider, looks so much better, thanks to ebvyone else also for showing me the way, hopefully i have improved a little, and will continue to do so with your help, Thanks Sevrin for the composition issues. And Paintbox for the link to Dreamlights product, i will check that out. Im going to do another render and post it hear will thats siad in the top of my mind now and see what that comes out like. Thank yo all again.I'm just gpoing to go over to Think Draw art now and see whats available for me to pick up on.