Show Us Your Bryce Renders! Part 7

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  • HoroHoro Posts: 6,953
    edited December 1969

    @dana365 - IBL/HDRI: There are two parts. The first is light (image based light), the second is backdrop and reflection. Size matters for the backdrop and to a lesser extent for reflections.

    To render a sharp backdrop, you have to consider the camera FOV and the desired document width. Camera FOV is not AOF. It is the angle of the diagonal of a 4:3 aspect ratio document, not the width or height. If the FOV is set to 60° (default), the horizontal angle of view is 48°. If you want an AOF of 60°, FOV must be set to 75°. Always at Scale 100%. I have a table on my website. Go to Raytracing > Hints > Camera; and a calculator for Bryce as well at Raytracing > Knowledge > FOV Calculator. The horizontal angle of view doesn't change if you change the document size or aspect ratio. If your landscape format document has 60° AOF, if you make it portrait, the horizontal AOF is still 60°, the vertical one will increase.

    I tell you this because if you use a horizontal angle of view of 60° and the width of your final rendered document is 1600 pixels, you need a spherical panorama of 360 / 60 * 1600 pixels, this is 6 * 1600 = 9600 pixels wide and half as high = 4800 pixels. If you use an angular map (as we usually do in Bryce) it should be about 3800 pixel in diameter. I have (again) a calculator for this: Science > Panorama. It calculates between the projections angular map, spherical, horizontal and vertical cross and cube face.

    Now if you've got a smaller one, you can use DOF for the real objects in the scene and again for the HDRI to match the overall DOF. Obviously, the backdrop is farther away than the objects so you can adjust DOF for the backdrop separately.

    Reflection also needs a certain HDRI size but less than the backdrop. Part of the backdrop is reflected on a relatively small surface and even a somehow blurred backdrop appears quite focused in the reflection. It's like if you downscale a blurred image: the smaller one looks sharper.

    Light is different. You can get along with small HDRIs, 600 to 800 pixel diameter for an angular map suffices most of the time. In fact, many programs use very small specular convolved HDRIs to illuminate the scene, a medium resolution HDRI for the reflections and a huge LDRI for the backdrop.

    Bryce is different. Bryce can use the HDRI for the light, for the reflection map and the background. That's why we have a tone-map button. The HDRI is still an HDRI for light and specular but an LDRI for the background. This approach has the advantage that only a single HDRI is needed and using IBL gets quite simple and straight forward.

    The disadvantage is that a large HDRI is needed if it is also used for the backdrop. And tone-mapping is an art in itself. There are global and local tone-mappers with up to a dozen controls in dedicated programs. Bryce has a global tone-mapper with preset values (in fact, two: without tone-mapping the HDRI is nevertheless tone-mapped using a linear operator). In most cases, you get an excellent result, almost always a satisfactory result but a few times crap only. Particularly for night HDRIs you would not use tone-mapping because it washes out the contrast. But then, this is only a click away. Bryce keeps the tone-mapped version in memory so once tone-mapped, you can toggle on and off without delay.

    It is important to note that if you need strong reflections, tone-mapping is not a good idea. But then, for such scenes you hardly have the backdrop visible, it is only in the reflection and here, you want very bright lights which only an HDRI can produce.

    Also be aware that HDR is not just a 96-bit per pixel image file. You can convert any LDRI (low dynamic range image) to an HDR file that can be loaded into the IBL lab. However, it will miss the light, because it was never any in it - though it can create nice ambient light.

  • JamahoneyJamahoney Posts: 1,783
    edited May 2014

    Dana365...I would imagine that creating such waterfall movement/splahes...etc., - particularly in a Bryce animatiton - would be near-impossible natural-wise. However, it may be possible to use them (splash meshes etc.,) as individualised instances whereby you shift each separate instance everso slightly accordingly to their respective locations in Bryce. It can get quite complex!

    Jay

    Post edited by Jamahoney on
  • dana365dana365 Posts: 131
    edited December 1969

    Horo:
    Thank you, I have printed the information, and will reference it and make my first attempt. honestly have no idea how a person could figure this stuff out with out your help!
    your the best!

    Jay:
    I have been thinking about the splash shapes as well, we are on the same page about the shifting idea,
    for the frothing water I am going to try and make a shape expand in size while rotating, and fade out, the whole time another similar shape is following right behind it. if i get it right, just as the first one peaks and starts to dissipate, the next one should make its appearance and continue that process.
    for the falls, I will use two falls in the same space, I think a slight wiggle in the texture, and left /right position, depending how it is looking I may also start moving forward and then back ward each fall opposite of the other in regards to position might work.
    for the mist I am hoping that a simple rotation gives the illusion of morphing mist, I have not rendered volumes to much before so I just don't know yet.
    Thank you keep those ideas coming!

  • JamahoneyJamahoney Posts: 1,783
    edited May 2014

    Yeah...see where you're coming from, dana365...very intricate and complex, but have to say, given your description, and obvious expertise, it is very possible, too (your approach from what I see is how I would do so too).

    I do hope, however, sounds (splashing, flowing-trickling water, nature sounds...etc., ) will play a role, in the final ani.,, as without them, the animation may lack value, and look flat. I've done so many ani's in the past without sound, that now I wish later I had included some audible hint (it's a whole new area, so hope you have experience in said, else, like me, you'll have to avail of the freebies - many thanks to you music makers - out there to include). I've used so many others' sounds (free and with permission) in the past that I'm now looking into creating my own.

    If it's of any use to you, and to others, I recently downloaded the digital audio/sound freeware, LMMS, which looks/sounds superb. I'm currently playing around (pardon the pun) with it and, by all accounts and initial experience (there's an online experience to creating your first sound), it really is an easy 'ware to use - a bit like a musical version of Bryce (pheww. so poetic, DAZ should be paying me copyrights ;) ) .

    Subject to say, of course, I have had no issues with it so far, so download preferences to others wanting to do so is entirely at owners' risk (my Norton software says it's okay).

    Jay

    Post edited by Jamahoney on
  • dana365dana365 Posts: 131
    edited December 1969

    Jay:
    thanks for getting back to me, I had almost forgotten about sound completely, man oh man, there is going to be some serious recording going on. I have been recording my own stuff for years, just for fun, not any covers just my own stuff, and for a summer I recorded a band and learned alot about the whole process, especially editing. I use Cubase, with a Steinberg usb interface to the computer. its pretty cool. with one decent mike, my key board, electric guitar, and didgeridoo, its pretty fun, and friends and neighbors are players or singers so that turned out pretty fun as well. I also have a sound library that has some sounds that will work for the Falls, like birds and forest sounds and some actual water fall sounds so with some tweeking they should work well. I will take a look at LMMS, to see what it is about
    thanks for the heads up

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 2,368
    edited December 1969

    @Dave,
    Oh I see! I thought you were incredibly fast at reposing him if you had to change a model in Wings3d, a pre-rigged Poser model explains the speed. What where you thinking of when you talked of making him more individual? Adjusting the textures? The model's shape in wings3d? adding acoutrements?... what?

    I've already adjusted the textures a bit but was thinking I may see if stripes suit him.
    Also I was wondering about adding an arrow spike or spade to his tail and the slightest hint of a horn just coming through on his head.
    I'd do that in Poser and parent the new bits to the model for ease of use. :)
  • David BrinnenDavid Brinnen Posts: 3,126
    edited December 1969

    A couple more quick UV videos.

    Wings 3D - UV mapping primer part 4 - by David Brinnen

    Wings 3D - UV mapping primer part 5 - by David Brinnen

    Next up I'll make something a little bit more involved.

  • fictionalbookshelffictionalbookshelf Posts: 798
    edited May 2014

    Okay so I am experimenting in the terrain lab. I wanted to see if could create a flat terrain with a rocky path. I even made the brush to create the lumps. I'm tickled that I am learning so much so fast. The first picture is using a texture from David Brinnen. I just wish we could paint displacement on the basic shapes and other things in Bryce like we can with terrains.

    Terrain2.jpg
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    Terrain1.jpg
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    Post edited by fictionalbookshelf on
  • David BrinnenDavid Brinnen Posts: 3,126
    edited December 1969

    A couple more material experiments with the mesh extracted from Horo's gorge terrain. Although it takes a while to make the object and import it. Once in the br7 it is swift to load and swift to try out materials on. First render is IBL the second is TA.

    G_m_A_D_3.jpg
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    G_m_A_D_2.jpg
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  • fictionalbookshelffictionalbookshelf Posts: 798
    edited December 1969

    A couple more material experiments with the mesh extracted from Horo's gorge terrain. Although it takes a while to make the object and import it. Once in the br7 it is swift to load and swift to try out materials on. First render is IBL the second is TA.

    Those are breathtaking

  • TLBKlausTLBKlaus Posts: 70
    edited May 2014

    Hey all, been a while but I figured I'd stop by and check things out.

    Here are some recent ones... the lavaworld one has some PS smoke brushing added,
    and the multiverse one has the star BG masked in.

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    lavawp.jpg
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    starswp.jpg
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    symmetries58wp.jpg
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    Post edited by TLBKlaus on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 31,991
    edited December 1969

    I am struggling with this one. I am quite pleased with the landscape work, but can't make the sky look right, it looks really flat, possibly partly dut to my camera angle.

    I am trying to portray a view over the mountains as the sun is westering. I watch this most nights, and know how I want the sky to look.

    mountain_view_again_2.jpg
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  • fictionalbookshelffictionalbookshelf Posts: 798
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    I am struggling with this one. I am quite pleased with the landscape work, but can't make the sky look right, it looks really flat, possibly partly dut to my camera angle.

    I am trying to portray a view over the mountains as the sun is westering. I watch this most nights, and know how I want the sky to look.

    Um, that's beautiful. I love it.

  • GussNemoGussNemo Posts: 1,855
    edited December 1969

    @Dave: Really love the direction you're going with Dufus. One thing I noticed in the fire pit scene is that the flames look further away from Dufus then I would expect seeing.

    @David: Your latest landscapes are great. The first three uv videos are really informative. I would like to have know about straightening the edges before I tried a uv map some time ago.

    @fictionairomance: Boar scene looks nice.

    @fran: Your beetles are awfully nice looking. It's also a novel idea to have the ant driving that one beetle. And adding the background in the second scene is a very nice touch.

    @Horo: Those landscapes David is using are terrific. Nice work.

    @Pam: Both of your latest scenes are really good. I like the atmosphere those clouds create in the second scene.

    @electro: The landscape is looking good, though something in the foreground is giving me pause. It seems out of place.

    @TLBKlaus: Need I say how lovely those images are, as usual.

    I wan't real happy with the way the chosen material laid on my first image of the kitchen cabinets. So I went back into Sketchup and rebuilt them so they had rails and stiles. Then, when imported into Bryce, I could orientate the wood grain as would be seen on actual rails and stiles. But when I put the cabinets in and sized the back wall for the view I wanted, I saw the entire scene was going to look rather sterile without something on top of the cabinets. So thanks to Archive 3D, I found several things which after a bit of work, I added to the kitchen cabinet scene. The image below is the result of adding more than just my uv mapped boxes.

    Kitchen_Cabinets_16.png
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  • HoroHoro Posts: 6,953
    edited December 1969

    @David - great materals.

    @TLBKlaus - nice abstracts. Chess looks great.

    @Pam - looking very good. Have you tried to adjust the cloud height and have then perhaps spherical? Can make a big difference. Generally, I think getting the clouds right in Bryce can be a bit challenging. They often look flat.

    @GussNemo - thank you. The kitchen cabinets look awesome. Very nice paraphernalia, I recognise some you made yourself.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 31,991
    edited December 1969

    Tried a different sky

    mountain_view_again_3.jpg
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  • David BrinnenDavid Brinnen Posts: 3,126
    edited December 1969

    @fictionalromance, thank you. A lot of time goes into setting up materials, but once done they can be reused easily.

    @TLBKlaus, incredible work, the last render of the set is particularly impressive.

    @Pam, if you want to post me just a stripped down version of the scene I'd be happy to tinker with your atmosphere/light. Otherwise, I'd recommend, putting in more contrast via stronger sun and weaker ambient.

    @Jamie, the kitchen is looking good. A few renders from different angles and with moodier lighting would not go amiss. It's a nice setup.

    @Horo, thank you. I've tinkered some more and will send you some of my findings in a while. As ever, the longer you dig in Bryce the more gems are unearthed. Gems and monsters.

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  • JamahoneyJamahoney Posts: 1,783
    edited December 1969

    TLBKlaus...first one is gorgeous.

    Chohole...love the heathery terrain in the foreground. Can’t see much wrong with the sky, but the isolated, distant peaky mountain on the right (it’s just above the foreground rocky part on the right) looks a bit oddey.

    Guss...that kitchen is looking great, and very organised ;)

    David...last experiment with Horo’s wonderful terrain is very believable...I keep expecting King Kong to appear from behind one of the mountains – looking for his human girlfriend.

    Jay

  • HoroHoro Posts: 6,953
    edited December 1969

    As ever, the longer you dig in Bryce the more gems are unearthed. Gems and monsters.

    Don't tell me, I should know. Bryce is very versatile. I'm just not always sure we exploit a bug we stumbled over, or found a hidden feature. Oh dear, I've punished myself by generating 6.5 GB worth of terrains and now have to make up my mind what to keep and what to dump.
  • David BrinnenDavid Brinnen Posts: 3,126
    edited May 2014

    Thanks Jay!

    Yes, that is always an issue, picked which you like best.

    Here's another version. I like this one better. No postwork required, this is straight out of Bryce and rendered in two minutes.

    Edit: and a gem Bryce "Nuts and Bolts" - dealing with high resolution terrains - by David Brinnen

    G_m_A_D_5.jpg
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    Post edited by David Brinnen on
  • Dan WhitesideDan Whiteside Posts: 389
    edited December 1969

    Howdy all!
    Kinda late to this party (lol).

    Thanks for the comments on my last image Jay, David, Horo , and GussNemo.

    Jay - to get multiple figures to come into Bryce via the DS bridge with all of the proper textures, I have to bridge each individual figure to separate Bryce scene files, then use the Bryce Merge command to bring them all together. So far (fingers crossed) they all merge into their proper positions with full textures.

    David (Savage), The Grey Alien is a lot of fun to work with. What I really like about the Grey Alien is the small number of material groups. Sure makes adjusting the mats for Bryce so much easier. Figures with 30+ mat grouse can be such a pain - especialy when I have to go back and repose and reload.

    Beautiful landscapes David, Horo and chorale.
    Fran, your lady bugs are so cute - love the Union Jack version.
    David - Dufus is quite the fire bug, isn't he? Excellent images. Great job on the Shure 55S microphone as well.
    GussNemo - love your abstracts and the teal colored glass sphere.

  • fictionalbookshelffictionalbookshelf Posts: 798
    edited December 1969

    Jay - to get multiple figures to come into Bryce via the DS bridge with all of the proper textures, I have to bridge each individual figure to separate Bryce scene files, then use the Bryce Merge command to bring them all together. So far (fingers crossed) they all merge into their proper positions with full textures.

    I have managed to create a scene with vegetation in Daz. Then go to the scene tab and parent each plant item to one object. Then I click on the main object that everything is parented to and send it to Bryce that way and the textures came out fine for me. The picture below I just did the other night. All the vegetation came from Daz and I imported them all at same time.

    Tropics1.jpg
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  • Dan WhitesideDan Whiteside Posts: 389
    edited December 1969

    Thanks - I'll gave that a try. Nice image...

  • GussNemoGussNemo Posts: 1,855
    edited December 1969

    @Horo: Thank you very much for the kind comments.

    @David: Your latest landscape is wonderful. And thank you for your comments. I'd not thought of other camera angles, nor mood lighting, though I'm not exactly sure how to accomplish mood lighting other than through trial and error.

    @Jay: Thanks for the comments.

    @Dan: Glad you like what you saw. If the abstracts you saw are the last two I posted, those were generated by the JWildfire program itself. They caught my eye during one of the times I was pressing buttons to see what resulted.

  • David BrinnenDavid Brinnen Posts: 3,126
    edited May 2014

    Thanks. I'm enjoying working on Horo's high resolution terrains. They are wonderful interesting shapes to explore. And now I've figured out how to work with the planetary resolutions without them stalling Bryce (explained in my last video). It is a pleasure.

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    G_m_H_D_6.jpg
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  • GussNemoGussNemo Posts: 1,855
    edited December 1969

    @fictionairomance: Nice scene, guess I missed it my first go through.

    @David: Two more beautiful scenes, the second very close to being a photo. And the information in that video is a treasure.

  • GoshtacGoshtac Posts: 0
    edited May 2014

    Hi folks:

    Just had to pop in to say hello and wanted to add my 2 cents to the comments. Some great renders and designs have been posted here as of late - Still catching up on some of the forum topics and renders. As usual, enjoying everyone's work. Now that most of my software and computer issues worked out, I hope to get back into the swing of things soon.

    DAVID: Just had to comment on the fantastic landscapes you have put out in your recent renders. Being a photographer for over 40 years, I would have been thrilled to take such great scenes and to think these are all computer renders - Wow ! Also, since I have sort of dealt with my graphics card issues, I am finally able to start viewing some of your Bryce Tutorials on YouTube. Have a lot more to watch, but have learned some great new insights already about Bryce that I didn't know about or understand before. Thanks for sharing all the great information. Between you and Horo as well as a few other Bryce Pros here, it seems like I can never learn enough about Bryce. Guess it comes from my old days of working in DOS and flying by the seat of my pants with various software over the years.. ;-)

    Have a great week everyone and keep on rendering!!

    Bruce

    Post edited by Goshtac on
  • David BrinnenDavid Brinnen Posts: 3,126
    edited December 1969

    Thank you for your kind remarks, Jamie, Bruce!

    Here's another of Horo's terrains, again my material relies heavily on curvature filtering. Also I spent quite some time faffing with the water effect.

    G_m_H_D_8.jpg
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  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 2,368
    edited December 1969

    Wow David... All these terrains of Horo's are looking great, but especially you've done a great job on this last one.
    That water looks absolutely convincing.

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 2,368
    edited May 2014

    My material experiment was a little less involved, but still baffling to me, but I fancied the challenge.
    Recently due to the time of year, I've been noticing a lot of grassy areas full of dandelions and daisies. A sea of green with yellow and white spots. So I thought I'd try and recreate the effect in the mat lab (I even had to venture into the DTE!!!).
    Not sure how successful I've been but it's getting close. It kind of looks like a representation more than the real thing.
    So then I had to put Dufus in the render and the lighting on this one makes him look like a little plastic toy which I liked in this context.

    Edit to add: Just watched your latest high res terrain video David and once again you bring valuable info to the community.
    What a great thing to know about the high res terrain work around. Thank you. :)

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    Post edited by Dave Savage on
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