HDR Pro-Sets Urban Storm OUT NOW! Product Updates - Price Cuts - Other Info (Commercial)

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Comments

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 16,827
    edited December 1969

    Well, they're popping out even without it. :-) I either turn off the ground plane and do closeups or use a ground plane from Yosemite. With the shadow softness up so very high, the ground plane doesn't seem to do much anyway. Should I be adjusting something?

    I don't like the suggested gamma 1.4 setting, though. That washes all my characters out very badly. (I have Gamma Correction OFF). Gamma 1.1 seems OK for my use, or I just leave it at default 1.0. Perhaps the background images are too dark for the lighting. I guess my mileage varied from yours, as the saying goes. I supposedly have calibrated monitors, so who knows. Anyway, I'm enjoying the new scenes and look forward to the fix.

    You may notice some Project EYEris eyes in a couple of these.

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  • DimensionTheoryDimensionTheory Posts: 431
    edited December 1969

    In these particular scenes the shadows are meant to be subtle, none of them really have any direct sunlight so they are all heavily diffused by the clouds. I always do my best to match the shadows in the render to shadows from objects within the backgrounds so there shouldn't be any need to adjust in most cases. The post I made containing my car render explains how to make the shadows stronger to fit personal preference if the scene calls for it.

    Your renders very nice btw, the Felicity renders in particular are looking great :)

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 16,827
    edited March 2014

    The DIM has the update. I've installed it, and I'm pleased to report that it is working great! I think the amount of shadow on the ground plane (maybe mostly AO?) is just right in this image I rendered with the fixed ground plane. This is Urban Storm 3, and this one worked well for me at gamma 1.4.

    Edited to add: I meant to say that I appreciate the higher resolution skydomes and the fact that they are not as cartoony as the original Urban Recreation. Thanks.

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    Post edited by barbult on
  • Leo ChenLeo Chen Posts: 696
    edited December 1969

    Using default setting, the shadow will be pretty weak.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 16,827
    edited December 1969

    Where are all the renders? I really love this set. It is great to have some streets and sidewalks. I have all the HDR Pro sets and I already can't wait for the next one. They are all great.

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  • SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 896
    edited December 1969

    Just what the doctor ordered. Really, I buy all your sets... this one takes the cake since its one I specifically asked for, so thanks. I would love to see the next set in the series be one that is designed around vehicle usage. I'd love to have one that is in the driving lanes of roads, maybe crossing a bridge, city cruising pictures, a football field, baseball diamond, cathedral... Keep them coming. Rainbows, Cafe's.... I just love these HDR's. :)

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  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    edited December 1969

    Merged with the existing thread on this subject.

  • SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 896
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    Merged with the existing thread on this subject.
    Thanks for that.. but don't you agree with me? I'm mean this is just the kind of easy to use sets that make amateurs like me look like professionals that are great products for helping to get quick real sets.

    You really must let them know thanks for letting all of us freaks out into public.

    Is there a knob somewhere that you can use to rotate the dome?

    Anyways... you let all my characters loose.. Uh oh :)

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  • DimensionTheoryDimensionTheory Posts: 431
    edited December 1969

    Thank you SnoePhoenix! I'm glad you like my new set :)

    If you would like to rotate the dome you just have to select the group that loads (DT-UrbamStorm1 for example) then change your Y Rotate value. This will rotate the background and all of the lighting along with it.

    I'd love to do some sets more focused on roads, of the scenes that I've done so far from all my sets these are my favorites. Not sure if it's because I like rendering cars so much or what. The logistics of it are a bit weird though because I don't want to be run over, I'm perfectly able to move when a car comes but I would have to put my camera back in the same exact position to resume shooting. Roads less traveled are ideal but they're often less interesting. I'll put some though into doing a set dedicated to a variety of roads and see if I can't pull it off.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 16,827
    edited December 1969

    Back in the day of Urban Recreation we were cautioned against rotating the skydome and lights. We were supposed to group all the scene items together and rotate that group instead. So now I wonder which sets allow us to just rotate the HDR set. And is there a way to regroup the other sets to handle them by rotating the HDR set group instead of the scene. Can you clarify, please?

  • DimensionTheoryDimensionTheory Posts: 431
    edited December 1969

    UberEnv does some strange things when you start manipulating it. First I have to rotate it in order to get it to line up with my custom skydomes, but when you start parenting it to a group or under a null the rotation values can flip around. I tested it just now to see if it still happens... Added UberEnv, changed it's rotation to -90 X and 90 Y then created a Null and parented it to that. My rotation values switched to -150.01 X, 90 Y and -90 Z. I'm not really sure why it does that...

    When I did Urban Recreation I was just figuring out this weird stuff and didn't know how to deal with it. When I made Monterey I found out that locking the rotation values before parenting to the Null kept them from flipping out. So Monterey, both Yosemite sets and this new set are easily rotatable by Y Rotating the main grouping. If you want to rotate Urban Rec the same way you can lock the rotation values for UberEnv, create a new group containing the lights and dome then rotate that.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 16,827
    edited December 1969

    UberEnv does some strange things when you start manipulating it. First I have to rotate it in order to get it to line up with my custom skydomes, but when you start parenting it to a group or under a null the rotation values can flip around. I tested it just now to see if it still happens... Added UberEnv, changed it's rotation to -90 X and 90 Y then created a Null and parented it to that. My rotation values switched to -150.01 X, 90 Y and -90 Z. I'm not really sure why it does that...

    When I did Urban Recreation I was just figuring out this weird stuff and didn't know how to deal with it. When I made Monterey I found out that locking the rotation values before parenting to the Null kept them from flipping out. So Monterey, both Yosemite sets and this new set are easily rotatable by Y Rotating the main grouping. If you want to rotate Urban Rec the same way you can lock the rotation values for UberEnv, create a new group containing the lights and dome then rotate that.


    Thanks for the explanation.
  • SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 896
    edited December 1969

    Thank you SnoePhoenix! I'm glad you like my new set :)

    If you would like to rotate the dome you just have to select the group that loads (DT-UrbamStorm1 for example) then change your Y Rotate value. This will rotate the background and all of the lighting along with it.

    I'd love to do some sets more focused on roads, of the scenes that I've done so far from all my sets these are my favorites. Not sure if it's because I like rendering cars so much or what. The logistics of it are a bit weird though because I don't want to be run over, I'm perfectly able to move when a car comes but I would have to put my camera back in the same exact position to resume shooting. Roads less traveled are ideal but they're often less interesting. I'll put some though into doing a set dedicated to a variety of roads and see if I can't pull it off.

    Country roads, mountain roads if your safe about it... I think places without a lot of traffic but are still paved would be the best but your right.. the logistics of it might be tricky but then again, I bet if you give locations.. your happy fans would be happy to scour the region in google Earth to find places with suitable traffic patters... maybe even your own home street if that feels safe to you. Piers at dawn and sunset are always good places and I love the ones inside of churches and other historic places.

    Maybe someday we can get a wonders of the world set.. We could get all Lady and the tramp and have a cafe with the Eiffel tower in the background or the deck of a yacht at sea.. Endless possibilities. Thanks for making a great product.

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  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited December 1969

    UberEnv does some strange things when you start manipulating it. First I have to rotate it in order to get it to line up with my custom skydomes, but when you start parenting it to a group or under a null the rotation values can flip around. I tested it just now to see if it still happens... Added UberEnv, changed it's rotation to -90 X and 90 Y then created a Null and parented it to that. My rotation values switched to -150.01 X, 90 Y and -90 Z. I'm not really sure why it does that...

    When I did Urban Recreation I was just figuring out this weird stuff and didn't know how to deal with it. When I made Monterey I found out that locking the rotation values before parenting to the Null kept them from flipping out. So Monterey, both Yosemite sets and this new set are easily rotatable by Y Rotating the main grouping. If you want to rotate Urban Rec the same way you can lock the rotation values for UberEnv, create a new group containing the lights and dome then rotate that.

    and we still haven't had word form DAZ3D if UE2 has been fixed http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/28358/ hence way many of us are calling for a new Environment Light that reads native HDRI's
  • DimensionTheoryDimensionTheory Posts: 431
    edited March 2014

    hence way many of us are calling for a new Environment Light that reads native HDRI’s

    UE2 does read native HDRIs, that is what I have been using since the Yosemite sets. Those two sets and this set have UE2 using .HDR format textures, I noticed .HDR loading when I did my HDRI Gels and it's loading for anything that accepts textures (which means my reflection domes use them now too).

    Post edited by DimensionTheory on
  • DimensionTheoryDimensionTheory Posts: 431
    edited March 2014

    Sorry, double post...

    Post edited by DimensionTheory on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited March 2014

    Sorry DT I thought you were still supplying Tiff's for DS. But that thread I linked to is saying that UE2 has got problems and no one will confirm if it has been fixed...very frustrating.

    I just loaded on of the Yosemite preset and if clearly says Tiff in UE2 so now I am confused.

    Post edited by Szark on
  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 5,245
    edited December 1969

    That is new to me since I see DS don't recognise .hdr image format and can't be loaded .. so how it can load .hdr other than converted to .tif before ?
    Just curious after reading your note about :)

    hence way many of us are calling for a new Environment Light that reads native HDRI’s

    UE2 does read native HDRIs, that is what I have been using since the Yosemite sets. Those two sets and this set have UE2 using .HDR format textures, I noticed .HDR loading when I did my HDRI Gels and it's loading for anything that accepts textures (which means my reflection domes use them now too).

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 5,245
    edited December 1969

    Szark the .tiff's are 32 Bits/channel and still will produce better results than real hdr in Poser for example
    one of my true hdr maps produced great indirect shadows ( not confuse with AO ) as long the tiff was created using the real .hdr maps
    so that is ok , you will not get better result here when you use .hdr .. see it as IBL on it best

    Szark said:
    Sorry DT I thought you were still supplying Tiff's for DS. But that thread I linked to is saying that UE2 has got problems and no one will confirm if it has been fixed...very frustrating.

    I just loaded on of the Yosemite preset and if clearly says Tiff in UE2 so now I am confused.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited December 1969

    Sorry DT for derailing you thread like this with this conversation but as you know I love to get a full understanding and the only way is to ask people, like yourself, questions. Not to make them myself ;) but to get the best out of the tools we have.

    Mec4D I did a test earlier, before going out, with plugging in a HDR from Yosemite in to the Base UE2 and yes it worked perfectly, with no Error messages nothing, call me gob smacked.

    Mec4D I never knew that Tiff 32 bit was as good if not better. I have always thought a quality HDRI would have been preferable, thanks again. Indirect Shadows and AO aren't really the problem in UE2 but Direct shadows are but nothing a Distant light won't fix.

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 5,245
    edited December 1969

    the Tiff 32 bits is not better but only a true hdr map will make a difference a map created from many exposures so you don;t need anything else in the scene , it will create also shadows . In DS it is just IBL , the simple version

    Btw I don't see how you can load .hdr files in DS other than .tiff converted from .hdr , it don't even recognize the .hdr image format and I use the last DS version
    but I don't want to disturb the thread anymore so sorry DT ..

    Szark said:
    Sorry DT for derailing you thread like this with this conversation but as you know I love to get a full understanding and the only way is to ask people, like yourself, questions. Not to make them myself ;) but to get the best out of the tools we have.

    Mec4D I did a test earlier, before going out, with plugging in a HDR from Yosemite in to the Base UE2 and yes it worked perfectly, with no Error messages nothing, call me gob smacked.

    Mec4D I never knew that Tiff 32 bit was as good if not better. I have always thought a quality HDRI would have been preferable, thanks again. Indirect Shadows and AO aren't really the problem in UE2 but Direct shadows are but nothing a Distant light won't fix.

  • DimensionTheoryDimensionTheory Posts: 431
    edited March 2014

    It's okay, I don't mind the conversation lol. It is kind of relevant to how these sets work. I'm not really sure why HDR would not be working if you are using the latest version, support for it was added in 4.6.0.2 about 6 plus months ago.

    DAZ Studio : Incremented build number to 4.6.0.2

    Improved OpenSubdiv support splitting algorithm in the case where the same geometry island has singlely joined vertices
    Fixed #DS-5: Fixed Transfer Utility to set a preferred base and avoid the AutoFit dialog
    HDR images are now allowed to pass through to 3Delight
    Fixed #DS-6: Fixed morph asset save to allow the save of aliases
    Fixed #DS-4: Fixed rename of surfaces via Polygon Group Editor to update Surface Selection Set references
    Updated root categories; per Content QA feedback

    32 bit TIFFs for UberEnv (created using the included converter preset or other ways) should be 100% the same as .HDR aside from file size and compatibility with other programs. HDR files have the same 32-bit color depth and that is what makes the difference with the stacked exposures, the TIFFs contain the same amount of lighting information from exposure stacking and are able to create shadows exactly the same. The only real benefit end users will see is that the files are smaller for their resolution.

    Post edited by DimensionTheory on
  • SorelSorel Posts: 1,309
    edited March 2014

    Done in octane :) Preset 5 I think this was.

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  • millighostmillighost Posts: 261
    edited December 1969

    It's okay, I don't mind the conversation lol. It is kind of relevant to how these sets work. I'm not really sure why HDR would not be working if you are using the latest version, support for it was added in 4.6.0.2 about 6 plus months ago.
    ....

    DS passes any hdr on to 3delight, but the textureconverter of 3delight, tdlmake only accepts hdr files with a RADIANCE signature (first line of the file). That might be a problem, e.g. ImageMagick outputs hdr with an RGBE signature.

    32 bit TIFFs for UberEnv (created using the included converter preset or other ways) should be 100% the same as .HDR aside from file size and compatibility with other programs. HDR files have the same 32-bit color depth and that is what makes the difference with the stacked exposures, the TIFFs contain the same amount of lighting information from exposure stacking and are able to create shadows exactly the same. The only real benefit end users will see is that the files are smaller for their resolution.


    No. The "32 bit" in an hdr file usually means 32 bit RGBE encoded, that means 32 bit for one pixel, which is 24 bit color and 8 bit value. The "32 bit" in a 32 bit tif on the other hand means (most often) 32 bit floating point per color channel, which results in 3*32 = 96 bit per pixel for all channels (R,G,B). They both have (almost) the same dynamic range, but tif has many more colors (and is 3 times as large without compression).
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    It's okay, I don't mind the conversation lol. It is kind of relevant to how these sets work. I'm not really sure why HDR would not be working if you are using the latest version, support for it was added in 4.6.0.2 about 6 plus months ago.
    ....

    DS passes any hdr on to 3delight, but the textureconverter of 3delight, tdlmake only accepts hdr files with a RADIANCE signature (first line of the file). That might be a problem, e.g. ImageMagick outputs hdr with an RGBE signature.

    I knew I read an explanation of what exactly was up with that...but it's nowhere near as concise as this one. It explains a lot of the behavior of tdlmake and why some work and some don't.

  • DimensionTheoryDimensionTheory Posts: 431
    edited March 2014

    You are right that the 32-bit TIFFs spit out by the UberEnv preset are floating point. The slight exposure difference matters most in post processing and it obviously matters in the ability to cast shadowing in renders (though not as much) but you have to consider the input information too.

    For the slight increase in tonal rage from an HDR to matter it would have to be taken advantage of and I'd say the majority of times it isn't. Doing exposure stacking the usage of tonal range comes directly from the number of images used. When you download an HDRI from the internet it will most likely be made from 3 exposures because of the consensus that this is the minimum (which is even more likely if it's high resolution), it's less likely that the HDRI will be done with 5 images and less with 7 images etc. Even those 7 images probably wont reflect the possible tonal depth of an HDR, or a 32-bit Floating Point TIFF (7 exposures are what I use for the HDRs in these sets). From what I've come to understand 15 exposures is the upper threshold of bracketing and I don't believe the HDR format would actually benefit from more than that, but I could be wrong and the number/quality difference obviously depends on bit depth of the original images (14-bit RAW etc). I know that there are cases where way more bracketed shots are put together like astral photography of nebula etc but I believe that is a different format and process

    If you were to convert one of my native HDRs from this set having been made by 7 exposures to 32-bit Floating Point TIFF I really believe there would be 0 technical differences, because the tonal depth doesn't reach the limit of either format. Any extra color depth in the TIFF would be extrapolated and wouldn't be based on real life information, it'd come from the original information and would essentially be the same. It's like blowing up and image then shrinking it down to it's original resolution.

    There are some different situations like rendered HDRs from programs such as Vue like my Skies Of sets, but these still rely just as much on actually taking advantage of the tonal depth. A lot of the time I've fount that Vue really doesn't, most notably in the brightness of the sun (low exposure values on the sun in real life are are brighter than Vue seems to think they are).

    Post edited by DimensionTheory on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited December 1969

    Don't stop discussing this now, I have got my pop corn and reading with interest, Learning so much my head may explode at any time.

  • SimonJMSimonJM Posts: 5,852
    edited December 1969

    Yes, keep going, I've got mypopcorn and am watching Szark's head, wondering if it will explode ... ;)

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited December 1969

    hey quiet in the cheap seats. :)

  • SimonJMSimonJM Posts: 5,852
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:
    hey quiet in the cheap seats. :)

    *lobs a peanut from the gallery ...* ;)
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