New PC build
76Claudia2205
Posts: 40
Hello all,
my current PC needs upgrading as its 8 years old, im looking for more information what spec's will give me least rendertimes i use DAZ studio with Iray.
Ofcorse i dont want to over spend so whats requierd and best to do ?
Should i get 2 grafix cards or more cpu speed i wonder.....
Can someone explain whats best to do because i read so much about this how much ram/cpu/gpu do i need.
Ive been told i need at least 32gig of ram because of LMAH (look at my hair) can someone explain and advise please.
Thanks so much
Claudia
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Comments
For rendering in iray with Daz Studio, the graphics card is the main factor in rendering time. For everything else, you need a decent CPU, but not necessarily a top of the range one.
You could look at a 6-core i5 processor, 32GB of RAM and then the best graphics card with as much GPU RAM as you can afford, so possibly the nvidia RTX 2080Ti with 11GB VRAM (you must have a nvidia graphics card for iray).
I find that most of the time 32GB of RAM is fine. There are a few times that I consider that 64GB would be better, but that is rare and only happens on renders with lots of character.
If you add a second graphics card later, it doesn't have to be the same as the first one (still needs to be nvidia for iray).
Most of what was said above is great but unless you game competitively there is no reason to buy an Intel CPU right now. The i5's are neither price nor performance competitive with the AMD offerings.
If you're looking to build a decent rig that will be very usable for 8 years, I'd lean toward the R5 3600 and a lower cost X570 motherboard. That gives you PCIE gen 4 which may not matter today but in 8 years it will.
RAM amount does matter quite a lot for iRay. DS seems to use about twice the amount of VRAM used during the transfer of a scene onto the GPU for rendering. So if you get a 2080ti, or the like, you'll want more than 16Gb. Other applications that do lots of calculations on the CPU or just manipulate a lot of data will also benefit from more RAM. The AMD CPU's also benefit greatly from RAM speed so I'd look at getting 3200 speed RAM if possible.
For GPU's there is no reason to even consider any none RTX cards unless you simply can't afford them. Personally I'd get one card today, the best one you're comfortable with the price for. The 20xx cards are the first iteration of RTX and Nvidia is almost certainly launching the next generation next summer, and by all accounts prices are going to come down somewhat. If performance improves and price comes down that's when I'd add a secondcard if one isn't rendering fast enough for your needs.
It really is the GPU, and, as kenshaw said, build your computer around the best GPU you're comfortable about purchasing. To get an idea about how fast the different cards are, take a look at the benchmark thread. Some cards may be X% more expensive than the one right below them, but nowhere near that same X% faster. Doing that benchmark test on your current rig yourself may also give you a nice estimate of how much performance you'd gain from a new card. Or maybe your current card is already listed, that'd be easier ofcourse.
Two cards or a better CPU isn't really the right question. For preparing a scene, it's nice to have a decent CPU, as it does make the viewport more responsive. But for rendering, you'll want to:
1. not see the render drop to CPU because your GPU has too little VRAMM
2. rather pick 1 GPU with more VRAMM, than 2 GPU's with less VRAMM on either one, even if the total VRAMM of those two cards combined would be more than what's on the bigger card, since VRAMM of two graphics cards does NOT add up. Two cards with 6GB VRAMM each will still drop a 7GB scene to CPU, while a card with 8GB VRAMM will be able to render it (it barely fits, you'll have to close all other windows but it can carry it)
Also, is this hobby or work? If it's work, then time is money, and every time your computer is locked up because you're rendering costs money. For professionals who do a lot of rendering on their workstation, a 2080Ti is an efficient investment. For casual hobbyists, a 2080Ti is way over the top, unless they so much swim in their money that they'd pay the same amount for dinner for two at some fancy restaurant without blinking.
...one help would be what kind of a budget are you looking at?
Yes, if you have a budget I can spec out a system in that range.
If you want to save money I highly recommend these options:
The absolute best value video card right now is a RTX 2070 for $325 on ebay, although it's refurbished and may have issues after a few months of use. I bought one and nothing bad has happened yet, and I've been rendering a lot with it.
The best value CPU has been the ryzen 2600 for a while now.
This site has helped me build PCs really easily : https://pcpartpicker.com/list/
There is no real requirement other than it being a Kepler or newer GPU. The only requirement is how long are you willing to let a render take for the price of the hardware you get, LOL. That and how much VRAM will you need. Everybody is different, and only you know how large your scenes are. How much VRAM you need is a major factor, maybe even more than how fast a card is.
You said your PC is 8 years old, just what is it, BTW? If it is decent enough, you could simply buy a new GPU for it because like others have said, the GPU is really all that matters with Iray. If you would like other applications to maybe run better, and maybe Daz Studio itself, then yeah, a nice little Ryzen would do just fine. And actually, last generation Ryzens are stupid cheap these days, an 8 core 2700x is often under $200 now, and can drop as low as $150, that's 8 cores and 16 threads there.
For perspective, I have an aging i5 4690k that only has 4 cores and 4 threads. It still holds up ok, and does not effect rendering in any way. I have two 1080tis for Daz Iray and use one of them for gaming at 1440p, and the i5 hasn't caused me any real trouble yet. So even though I use 2 cards for Iray, it doesn't slow it down as my benchmark times match other people who have two 1080tis but newer CPUs. Its not quite as old as yours, but the takeaway here is that for Iray GPU is all that matters.
The exception to that is if you want a decent CPU for backup if the GPU VRAM runs out. But that is tough sledding as even the biggest baddest CPUs cannot render as fast a mid range GPU.
As for RAM, you can get a board that can handle 64 (or more), but start with 32GB first, and make sure to leave room for more. That gives you the option of upgrading later since RAM is the easiest thing to upgrade as long as you make sure the specs are the same.
I have a benchmark thread in my sig, look it up to compare some GPUs to each other. You could also download and run the bench yourself, and this would give you an idea of just how much faster one of the newer GPUs can be over what you have now.
...I'm running a 12GB Maxwell Titan X on an old P6T MB that has PCIe 2.0 x 16 slots. All that means it it takes a little longer to load the scene data to the GPU (and it isn't really all that much of a wait) but once that is done, rendering itself is pretty quick.
My CPU is a Westmere Xeon X5660 6C/12T with 24 GB of min memory (both of which are the most the MB supports).
Wow so much information thanx so much all.
We are building a new pc indeed not upgrading the old one sorry that i was not clear on that.
(Old pc was first gen 8core pentium 6gig ram and old gpu (not sure what at the moment) problem is the gpu is that old that rendering takes up to 15hours)
New Rig will range about euro 1500
Intel Core i9-9900K with a Cooler Master MasterLiquid ML240L cooler
64gig ram
ssd 500gig and decent powerunit. plenty of storage (2tb from old pc new HDD in there)
So reading the above , i think we go for the NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER chip with 8gig ram (we would be comfortable to get that) and then getting another 1 in a few months if needed
Or 2x NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti 6 GB (GDDR6, 192 bit)
Any more advise would be much appreciated
The i9 is way way over priced unless you're a serious gamer where every frame matters.
On GPU's get the 2060 over even 2 1660ti's. The RT cores really matter in iRay.
...and again, the higher VRAM will pretty much keep most render processes from dumping to the CPU. 8 cores/16 threads is pretty decent particularly at 3.6 GHz (with turbo of 5 GHz) will help with other functions.
9900k $500 8c/16t base clock 3.6 Ghz boost 5 Ghz
R7 3700X $325 8c/16t base clock 3.6 Ghz boost 4.4 ghz
If 600 Mhz for a few seconds, the Intel spec is for no more than 30 seconds at a time, is worth $175 then have at it.
If you're set on spending $500 then I really have to wonder why not go with the R9 3900X 12c/24t base 3.8 Ghz boost 4.6 Ghz?
The 3700X more than matches the 9900k in all non gaming tests and the 3900 is essentially tied in those gaming tests and crushes it in everything else.
There is literally no good reason for anyone but a professional gamer to buy Intel right now.
For real, I don't want to tell you what to do, but since you did ask, there really is very little reason to buy Intel right. AMD has them beat in price, performance, and even how much power they draw. The one and only thing Intel has in their favor are programs that only use one core and depend more on high frequency clocks of a single core. For everything else AMD wins. And even in single core AMD has got so close that it doesn't really matter. Just look up some reviews. But it goes deeper, as AMD has supported the same motherboard socket for several generations. You could buy a last gen 2700X and if you so desire later on you could upgrade to a 3000 series part. I don't know if they will keep it up for the 4000 series that comes next year, but regardless you have lots of great choices thanks to this. This video is a review of the 3900X, and it compares it to several other chips from AMD and Intel across a variety of software. Pretty much all software for production runs better on the AMD here. The video has a link to a 3600X review on their website, which could a cheaper alternative. You could save some money and apply that to the GPU...remember the GPU is what matter most here. So while a $500 CPU would be awesome if you have the cash, I personally would save some of that cash and invest it in the best GPU you can afford. Your CPU only needs to be 'good enough' for the programs you run. If Iray is what you are focused on, then the GPU should be priority #1, period, no ands ifs or buts about it. You don't even need a balanced machine for Iray.
The 2060 Super would be a winner over two 1660tis because of the VRAM. I don't know how fast two 1660tis would be as we don't have a bench that has two combined, but I doubt they would be that much faster than a 2060 Super, if at all. The RT cores are a wild card, a good wild card, which can really help performance in larger more complex scenes. Personally I think the 2060 Super is a great card for what it is, giving you 8GB of VRAM that larger cards offer, and a taste of RT cores.
AMD announced Ryzen 4000 will be out in the first half of 2020 on the AM4 socket (I guess that could change but they promised support for AM4 through 2020).
I've been thinking about this for a while. If they give up on the socket I'll get a 3900X and be happy. If the next chips are on AM4 I'll probably get one if my poor old X370 motherboard can handle it.
The best CPU per dollar spent right now for both single thread and multi-thread performance is the AMD Ryzen 5 3600 going for about $194 USD on Amazon. That's what I'm buying. And get this, I bought an old Ryzen Generation 2 Zen+ era motherboard with a B450 chipset that may not support Ryzen 3000 chips unless the bios is updated. How can I do that though if I have only a Ryzen 5 3600? AMD will actually let me request a loaner CPU from AMD (I have to show proof of my AMD Ryzen 3000 CPU and supported motherboard) so I can update my motherboard BIOS! Can't beat that.
The motherboard I bought will support upto AMD Ryzen 9 3950X with 16 cores and 32 threads but at $749 it's too expensive for me, however you can bet within two years if current trends continue I will be able to buy such a CPU for less than $300. Of course the motherboard I have now may support Gen 2+ and then Gen 3. AMD has said AM4 socket will be support through 2020. Zen 3 design should finish in autumn 2020 so that may mean Zen 3 will support AM4 sockets. That would be the last generation of the Zen architecture then if we're to believe AMD's public statements. I wouldn't complain if my current motherboard supported all the way through Zen 3 and a reduction to 5nm CPU process and 32 cores / 64 threads on a consumer desktop. That's massive money savings for me in future potential upgrades.
I guess though that before the Zen 3 release some motherboard / SSD / RAM design changes designed to stream SSD mass storage blazingly fast into and out of RAM / CPUs / GPUs will be created before Zen 3 hits the shelves and I'll get more speed increases from that bottleneck being gone via buying a new motherboard than a Zen 2 to Zen 3 7nm to 5nm speed increase.
There is no Zen 2+. The next Ryzen chips (Ryzen 4000) will be Zen 3.
thanks all again for so much advise, good to know that we can safe some good money to go for a AMD processor, since my first build i always used Intel just because they are more stable and reliable ... atleast i have never had a rig that crashed with intel.
That is the reson, i want the i9 just because i dont like to change and upgrade evry 2 years , my systems last and stay fast long times thats why i want the 64gig ram and best stuf we can find.
Not keen on AMD just as i like to drive german cars .. not cheap but verry relliable .
If needed we can safe money so might get AMD this time tho have to see what the costs are as i finish the build.
Defenatly getting a 2060 then as more then 1 person confirm its the best option thanks so much evryone.
When comparing the costs, do consider whether you're going to overclock or not. Because, if not, then you'll still have to add a better cooler to an Intel CPU, but the AMD CPUs tend to come stock with pretty good coolers already. Well, ofcourse that will also depend whether you want liquid cooling or not. Liquid cooling costs extra either way, though it really depends on your circumstances (mainly dust issues) and the summerclimate in your area whether there's a point to get liquid cooling. In my area, liquid cooling is pointless. In warmer climates, it might improve cooling.
Intel are the guys who make you get a new motherboard every time they change CPU's. I bought an X370 motherboard 2 and a half years ago when I get the R7 1700. Last year when the R7 2700 came out I did a UEFI update and dropped the new chip into the same mobo. I didn't upgrade to Ryzen 3000 because I wanted tosee what the 3950 was like and supply has been pretty short. This spring/summer I'll either get one of the 3000's or the new 4000's without changing motherboards.
Has there ever been a time when you could use the same Intel chipset through 2 tic tock cycles?
Truthfully I was much the same.. but then I took a gamble on the a 2990WX Threadripper.. and the machine has been rock solid.. so I have no issues with going AMD again (eyeing up one of those 64 core beasts).
The only thing stopping me from looking at AMD is finding a motherboard with enough PCIe slots to fit my 3 video cards. I found one, but the reviews were terrifying.
I have the Asus X399 ROG Zenith Extreme AMD X399 (Socket TR4) E-ATX Motherboard, running 3 x 2080Ti's fine, if that helps.
...this is why I'm still running a Westmere 6 core/12 thread CPU on an PT6 MB with three memory channels. If I went AMD, I'd want an X399 and Threadripper CPU (both which are expensive at least for my budget) so I'd have four memory channels (Intel boards went 4 channel back with Sandy Bridge [i7] and Ivy Bridge [Xeon]).
The "i7" with quad channel was always Intel's HEDT part, just like TR is for AMD. You'd need, variously, X79, X99 or X299 motherboards to get quad channel. If you really did want quad channel and are on a budget then TR is definitely the way to go. The 1900X, 8c/16t is $150 and X399 motherboards are $300 and that will be coming down as the new TR chips are on a different chipset.
My Asus Prime X370 has 3 full length slots. I'm pretty sure Asus does 3 full length slots on most of their higher end boards.
So that means that they'll be a Zen 4? Zen 3 is 5nm right. Zen 4 what is it? 3nm? I am curious now. I read that Zen architecture and AM4 socket will wrap up in 2020. That would mean no Zen 5.
The perceived unreliability of AMD CPUs is due to overclockers screwing up and blaming AMD for it mostly. And the now well known intel CPU security bugs are and have always been absent in AMD CPUs.
No. Zen 3 will be on TSMC's 7nm+. Zen 4 should be on 5nm but TSMC is no where near production on that fab so who knows.
Zen is not restricted to the AM4 socket. Realistically the Zen 2 chips are pushing the limits of what a lot of the B350 and X370 boards can handle. Zen 3 will pretty much have to be the last AM4 chips just because so much has changed. Zen 1 maxed out at 8c/16t while Zen 2 doubles that with more power draw and PCIE gen 4 support.
Compiled the components, considerd most of the advise, we might get a 2nd GPU next year if prices drop to resonable but for now it should be a hell of alot better that what we have now. I will let you all know how it goes , should take a couple of day to get it build (let a company build it i get a year extra warranty)
1 x AMD Ryzen 7 3700X socket AM4
1 x Cooler Master MasterLiquid ML240L RGB cooler
1 x Corsair 32 GB DDR4-2400 Kit
1 x MSI GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER VENTUS OC
1 x Samsung 860 EVO, 1 TB SSD
1 x Corsair RM750X (2018), 750 Watt powersuply
1 x GIGABYTE AORUS X470 Ultra Gaming, socket AM4 motherboard
1 x Fractal Design Focus G tower
Ill updat as soon as we have the pc total kost was around the 1500euro we intented to spend.
Again thanks for all the advise
awesome