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I don't see why one couldn't have said the same about Quixel.
If there's one thing Epic needs, it's detailed character models.
(Adobe not so much)
Actually a rigging system more so, many people model stuff in Zbrush etc but rigging it for games is an entirely different skill, DAZ models fully rigged even have issues using their systems, Adobe has Mixamo with Autorigger so I could see Unreal Engine wanting something similar even preset to use Blueprints ready to go.
? But using quixel megascans already began somewhat a big trend in gamedev, and among unreal engine users as well. So it was pretty natural to hear..?
Beware your user data then (again):
https://thehackernews.com/2019/10/adobe-database-leaked.html
If I may, Epic doesn't need character models because character models are already sold (and available for free) in abundance outside of the Daz community. Reason being that almost every 3d artist starts out wanting to get into character art, before they choose to get into another department. We also need to take into account that there's already a set pipeline that character artists work with in order to get the exact appearance a character needs for a specific game. Some of which (software) are freely available to the masses. Would a gamedev benefit from using Daz models as base models? Yes! Does this mean that Epic needs Daz in order to provide that kind of content to gamedevs? No.
This exactly!!
As impressed as Daz studio only users may be at the mighty
Genesis 8 in an IRay still render, users in the game dev demographic are an entirely different mindset NOT so easily impressed.
They aslo have many far superior internal character motion building/editing
options optimizied for their game characters without ever having to bother with an FBX export from Daz studio.
Daz would have to weigh the development & maintainence costs of a Daz created bridge to UE4, against any realisticly expected increase in store sales to that the tiny minority of the DS user base who would need such a "bridge".
These types of third party plugins are NEVER a "one and done"affair
as you do not control the dev cycle of that external program for which your plugin is designed
Reallusion created a "Live link" plugin to unreal and is selling it for $1400 USD
The new megscans libraries require updating to Unreal 4.22 which of course has destabilized Reallusions expensive plugin to the point
of uselessness until reallusion revisits the plugin with an update...at some undefined, future date.
The Iclone users who actually bought that plugin, are less than thrilled to say the least.
I agree that Daz needs better compatibility (and maybe start thinking about adding new export formats like USD). But the thing is that Epic doesn't need to acquire Daz in order for people to have access to characters. Character models are readily available in abundance in places like Blender Market, Gumroad, ArtStation, and CubeBrush. Plus, if gamedevs want to use Daz models, they can just grab the models. All models need to go through heavy edits anyway. With such a wide variety of visual style choices out there, it's impossible for even Daz to please the masses.
The reason Quixel was a choice candidate for acquisition is that they specialize in materials, just like Substance and Mari. Textures are a necessity because each texture is (and must be) unique, and of a certain level of quality. They can't be passed around and slapped onto any asset or game the same way 3d assets can. I mean, technically they can, but your game would look terrible. So, textures are built from scratch or heavily edited if using a base material. Because Mari is too expensive for the average non-AAA studio, and Substance (thanks to Adobe's greed) is no longer a viable option, it was imperative that Epic acquire Quixel. Some years ago, before Substance became a big player in the industry, Adobe was actually looking to acquire Quixel. Had they gone through with it, on top of acquiring Substance, we would've been left with no way to get decent texture work without having to drain our wallets. Speaking as a game developer myself, Epic did us a solid.
Anyway, Quixel and Daz can't be comparable regarding acquisition potential. Textures will always be scarce, but 3d assets are abundant. Therefore, Epic doesn't actually need to acquire Daz. What it needs is a proper bridge, and that's it.
For those who don't know, I would also like to note that Unreal isn't just strictly for games. It does animation and film too. If you find that attractive, I highly recommend getting to know Unreal Engine.
Materials? i thought they specialized the most in 3d scans
nvm
Quixel does both materials and scans. Personally, I think that's what sets Quixel apart from Mari or Substance.
I feel which Epic is aiming to become the "artistic" standart tool in the market, because currently they are focusing in almost every direction, not only game, but 3d or even 2d animations can de done in unreal, also movies can be done in unreal, also you have the twinmotion to make "virtual constructions for archtects, the new 4.24 version alredy come with a "extra" menu where you must choose what you are "wanting to work with unreal" from game, to even virtual archi, to virtual constructions design, they are aiming for a lot of variety in they work
now going from a "game dev" lover point of view
yeah me as one of the "small minority" trying to use daz products for game, would be really awesome if daz started to look more "to unreal" and make some more "compatiblities, for exemple the team from the reallusion already started to make they tools more and more "unreal support", specially then CC3, currently they have a option for CC3 where they already made they "rig skeleton" being full unreal compatible, with the proper bone names and the extra "IK" bones, you have that option when exporting the character and many others options like unreal A pose support for unreal format texture exports and things like that.
AS aways i have told i'm really feel most of the times divided between daz and realusion about what the best to use for my game because while in general both of then have the "same basic" features to export to unreal, each one have they own exclusive featurs and some problems which make hard to choose which one to use in the end.
DAZ - for me what make daz shine a lot over CC reallusion and others "competitors" even free ones, is some amazing export options, like the characters morphs and corrective morphs if you proper know how to setup everything you can easy make characters do proper animations without look not "natural", also you have the L.I.E system which allow easy use to customize characters materials like adding wounds, sweet and others effect to the skin, now the big issue and "hidden horse" in daz when comes to games for me and general users for this purpose is really the "poly count", most of the products: props and outfits are too high poly count and before peoples come with the "daz is for render and poly count for render is not a issue and bla bla, i know that a long time don't need to bring it and i totally respect it, but when comes to try to use daz products for game it's really painfull, i would say which probably 70% to 80% or maybe 90% are pretty bad and too high like some set of outfits easy going around 500k poly count, which while for render it's not a big issue(still some issue due to "render time to render too much polygons), for game where render is in real time it's horrible, if i've decide to start to full use only daz products it would means a "game which would only running" in top end pcs, no console could handly the big poly count and even the average pc would not too, it would run only on top pcs and even with high chance of really low fps, another problem which is not a really big issue since all i would need is just use substance paint to chance from regular jpg to a better suit format for unreal the textures, i say that because reallusion you have a option to choose the "format of the file you want to create the texture like jpg or any others format supported by some game engines.
reallusion- the big good thing is his full game engine support specially the CC3 giving many export options to make much more easy export to unreal, the other awesome thing is they very friendly game support store stuffs, most of assets and outfits are "for game" which means "low poly" compared with DAZ but still a very good look due to proper use of normal maps and others maps, when comes to generate a fast and simple character game ready reallusion CC3, is supreme because it's really have a huge support and compatibility with it the game engines giving many options for that.
now the issues with reallusion, are first "the prices" compared with daz are much bigger" and they have much less discounts and sales, making many things very expensive compared with daz, too low poly base character, i feel like the characters in daz are poorly optimized or are optmized to be usable in mobiles or low ending machines, because even with all maps you can easy spot some "squares, specially in womans" specially like if you make a big breast woman, it can easy make noticiable the "low poly" even using smoothing edges, also another problem come to the hairs which while in the CC3 they look good when exporting to unreal they look terrible, while in the daz hairs are not awesome and perfect they look much better than CC3 hairs and is more easy to make it looks better, another problem is while you can customize the character inside CC3 you can't export the morphs unlike daz where you can export the morpsh, making "inside the game a custom character system" impossible unless you go all your work do manually create morphs, while in daz you just export it making really easy to make a character customization, another problem come to the textures which where the "makeup" is not layered and you must export the final texture with the makeups, wounds and bla bla bla instead of just exporting the "needed effect, making you load more textures than you really would need, it make.
i would really love if daz really started to "look more to the game side and started to pay more attention to this side, it would make more peoples start to switch to daz from reallusion and maybe even from the free adobe fuse characters, if the daz quality could also be more "game design friendly", i'm not saying to full switch from render and all but make some move in the game directions too and have some balance and some artists started to look more to this side and make more "game" friendly stuffs.
about the quixel, currently i have the substance paint for steam and i gona renew it in december and aslong i have that version i don't need to sign the adobe, if i'm not wrong they still gonna keep supporting and giving "free updates" to the steam version until 2020 then after that you can still have the steam version it just not gonna receive anymore updates as you gonna need to sign-up the subscription for that.
actually daz characters can look and animation very well in unreal here some exemple
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JR6TNBo1Rk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_i21QoCzjM
the only real problem for daz is really the poly count of many products, specially in "early versions" like some V&M4 many G1, most of G2 and G3 and a good amount of G8, if not was for that Daz would be a really awesome tool for unreal if the daz team wanted.
I checked up on what would be a monthly service fee to "rent" the software and it's like $19.00 a month for a singe license, bit too steep for me right now. I'll stick with Photoshop CC at $9.00 a month and the other bits of software I have in my arsenal. I've already deleted all the Allegorithmic stuff from my system. If Adobe comes up with some sort of combined plan for Photoshop and Substance Painter that's reasonable I may try that. I do have 3D Coat but their UI get's confusing to me so building up a work flow is daunting for my old brain. I kinda need to stick with what I've been used too, learning curves are not my forte' these days! LOL
Well so far every attempt to use the megascans content has crashed my PC after waiting hours for the lighting to compile
I got the FBX LOD0 ones working beautifully in Carrara though but not supposed to do that
well the meadow plants, The textures are jpg instead of bmp though so Carrara asks for every one, iclone and DAZ studio loads them untextured
the rocks are an FBX format nothing likes
correction Twinmotion loads them grey of course and I would need to redo all the textures in Gimp to add an alpha for that so cannot be bothered
OnlyLuvsCatz, what are your tech specs? It sounds like a hardware problem. While I'm not as experienced in pc builds and tech, I do have someone on my team who is. I can probably talk to them about it if you want.
I only have a Ryzen 3 with a 980ti and 8GB of RAM
I can brush low rez foliage on my terrains no worries but the Megascans were a bit much
this is a video using lowrez foliage for example
I only brushed the meadow and rocks on a plane too not a terrain
My PC is new the Graphics card is from my old PC which I damaged (the PC not the card)
I sent my tech guy a message. Fortunately, he was online and his response: "6GB of RAM says it all. Art programs are RAM hogs. Ryzen 3s are quad-core CPUs, so also low spec. They need at least a Ryzen 5 1600 and 16 GB RAM. The GPU is okay, just don't expect miracles. It's not a Megascans issue since they're just dealing with image maps. They didn't state at what resolution the maps are in, which could also be the problem."
He's right about map rez being a possible culprit. PC's these days don't really care much for the poly count. The 20k-30k poly limit per character has shot up to 60k-1m in the last 5 years. The thing that would bog down a computer these days is actually the shaders and textures, more than anything else.
well about the "character creator" it make sense the bridge don't work, because it would means more "costs" because you have to pay for the reallusion plus daz material making things even more expensive than just go direct using daz characters from daz and just because somethings maybe don't worked for unity don't means which not gonna work for unreal, each public have they own needs, having a bridge for unreal could be good, while it could not "suddenly make the whole unreal community users goes to daz it could help "some or few of then come, which while would not be the "big buster" in sales it could still help, at last will be more "products being sold than just what is already being sold, remember having "more customers" most of the times will be good because it means more products being sold and again we can't compare "inde" with triple A games or even "B games", inde industry is a much broad market with different types of creators with a big range of type of styles from 2d to 3d then it's obvious which "not everyone or a big chunck will automatically switch to daz for this, will gonna be a little part in the same way a "little" part goes for CC3 or goes for cc fuse character.
For me creating options aways will be a good option because while it can't make your market suddenly goes high it can at last have a big chance to attract more peoples to it.
Follwing your own line of thinking the current situation is also not good because if daz keep only supporting the "same base" over and over it can go to a point where the sales become stagned, because almost everyone common user already bought almost everything they want then the sales start to fall due to the lack of new "customers" since they market is limited to that base of customers if they don't try to attract and go to different type of customers too.
some of the FBX LOD files (6 meshes) with all their Atlas textures surface replicated in Carrara Octane render
just a test would not use it in any sort of art etc, am rendering a short video for comparison purposes if I can do something similar in UE4 and will only upload if I do
as a blog/educational video, my channel not monetised
if I can get it to work UE4 will be much faster!!!!! Octane with 10 iterations direct lighting is not exactly flying through it
That's because Daz has never made that push to target them (Morph3D was a spinoff, so not directly part of Daz), plus Daz is still very much its own niche. If they ever hope to grow beyond being a niche software they will have to make big changes at some point. Daz cannot stay in this single frame focused model forever. They will reach a saturation point to where they cannot grow their business any further. I believe there are only so many people that Daz can currently target.
And I was highly outspoken about Morph3D from the beginning, I thought M3D should never have been a spin off. It should have been part of the Daz store. You can buy OBJ and FBX only items in this store, so why can't they have Morph3D as well? Plus M3D was using Genesis 2 as a base, which was already outdated by Genesis 3. I've read using Genesis 3 models was just as easy as Morph3D's Genesis 2 models, which would seem to make Morph3D rather pointless. M3D never upgraded from Genesis 2, they didn't keep up their "new items every week", and more. However, they were a top Unity seller for a brief moment in time. So somebody bought those models and things were promising at first.
That was a a few years ago now. Times have changed. Technology has changed, and the market has changed. The software tools and hardware we have today is opening up new opportunities for wannabe animators and creators. That in turn opens up new business opportunities as well. Morph3D came along just a bit too early, things might be different if it was launching today. Epic is much more focused than ever before on its content store, as Quixel proves. Epic has a game store now as well. This is a future they are preparing for. Unity isn't sitting still, either. I've been preaching for a couple years now that game engines will be a major player in animation and that could encroach on Daz's business in time. Game engines are going to be competing with Daz. Daz has a choice to make and they need to make it now, not tomorrow. Are they going to try to compete with these big companies or will they try to play along with them? They cannot just bury their heads in the sand and act like still renders are all they will ever need. Because they might wake up one day and find that the game engines have a hold on that as well.
So you say they have game models that work better for animation. Then if you were to buy new models (I know you make most of your own), then you as an animator would be more likely to buy from the Unreal or Unity asset store than Daz. That likely applies to other people as well, people who are using those engines. Would you say this statement is correct? So this is an area that Daz could grow...a business opportunity. What if the anticipated Genesis 9 turns out to be really well optimized from the start for Unreal and Unity? Like it exports to them flawlessly, with its rigging fully replicated to those engines. What then? Then you can have the perks that Daz can give, being able to easily reshape, reskin, and dress that model with the countless products Daz offers for a nominal fee. So you can quickly have a big cast of different characters, or multiple costumes for your hero. For a small time animator, that could be potentially really nice.
In my opinion, Daz's outreach to the rest of the 3d industry would be more effective if they marketed their software and figures as base/concept creation rather than finished assets. I've been around the 3d community outside of Daz for over a decade and based on all the advanced-level character work I've seen, Daz's figures and textures don't exactly meet the standards of the industry just yet. As I've already stated, Daz's figures need a lot of heavy editing in order to reach "industry standard".
Looking at the figures as finished products makes them less appealing. As a concept character creation tool, however, Daz is pretty powerful and a great time saver since using it can cut the concept stage and retopology stage by half! All it's missing is proper 3rd party compatibility.
Take this comment with a grain of salt, though. This based on how I approached Daz.
+ interesting subject +_