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As part of the general revamping of Iray for RTX, a decision was made to switch to using Intel's Embree library for raytracing on CPU since it makes use of AVX instructions for significant hardware-based performance boosting.
AVX is notorious for it's... space-heating capabilities. Iray on CPU has always been a heavy hitter. But in the RTX era it's become a real power virus (it's become my one-stop-shop for cooling performance benchmarking.)
"AVX is notorious for it's... space-heating capabilities"
But what we don't know won't hurt them, right?
I don't think newer CPUs should get up to 90C if you launch DAZ Studio to only use about 1/2 the cores. That's what I did with me current laptop. However, as a 3rd gen mobile laptop with much better heat management from the 2nd gen laptop it doesn't get even remotely so hot as before rendering.
I got my RX 570 ARMOR MK2 8G OC video card via USPS today and I have actually not known them to ever run on a Sunday. Do my surprise this video card seems as heavy as the rest of the desktop combined. I am ordering the AMD Ryzen 5 3600 in January and then my new desktop will be ready to go. CPUs getting too hot are why I decided to get the Ryzen 5 3600 instead of the Ryzen 7 2700 or the Ryzen 5 3600X. All three have a TDP of 65W. If the Ryzen 9 3950X ever gets sub-$350 I am liable to upgrade to that but it has a TDP of 105W.
I tried a 3,00 pixel render of the Daz House Cat at quality level 3 as a stress test. After about seven minutes the CPU was up to 85C, where it stayed until the render finished after fourteen minutes. However, it's quite cool in here tonight (20 by the thermometer on the bookshelves, though I think that may be a bit lower than the rest of the room) - it can certainly be a lot warmer in summer. Still, that does sound as if it's not doing too badly - the termperature certainly didn't climb without limits. It also wasn't spiking quite as high as the last time I tried the system when sitting idle, I don't think it went over 40C, so maybe the bond is settling in.
The problem, though, is that doing almost anything (scrolling through the pop-ups on a store page, adjusting the cat's pose in DS, doing a GPU render) is still bumping the CPU up to a bit over 50C and even using the quiet fan profile (assuming I'd remember to turn it back to Performance for rendering) it's unpleasantly noisy for me. So, despite my issues with getting heat sinks properly seated (see needing three attempts for the machine this is being typed on) my inclination is to go for a "better" cooler. Scan has an Noctua NH-U12S SE-AM4 for about £55, which would be acceptable and I think the reviews were giving it the OK - there seemed to be some slight reservations about the Cooler Master Hyper 212, which they have (in RGB) for about ten pounds less - but I don't know how siginificant those reservations would be. Unfortunately there seem to eb a lot of subtle variations in model number and it's quiet tricky to be sure the review is referring to the thing in the store - they don't have the NH-U12A which seems to be first choice in several places.
I'd avoid profiles to control your fans. You can go into the UEFI and set the actual fan curve.
The NH-U12 isd the model, the A, S etc. is the revision. Basically the S is the newest model. There have been some minor changes, for the better Noctua is manic about performance.
I haven't had any complaints over the hyper 212 and I've sold people rigs with them dozens of times. They are my default cooler fo Intel systems, because the Intel box cooler is awful, and I've put them in a few Ryzen systems as well.
I have the NH-U!2S on an intel 5930K 6-core 3.5 GHz and I can run hour-long Iray renders never exceeding 60 degrees - and the fan is dead quiet.
My tech just came over for some work, updated drivers and got the black screen of hell. Make sure you have an image disc on USB bootable in case this happens to you. We had to go back to earlier drivers to get my 2080TI's to work. We had to roll back to an earlier bios
This is a very interesting discussion. I wish Richard all the best. However, I am reminded why I'd be somewhat reluctant to build my own system for DAZ Studio.
OK, I'll weight them up and decide in order to get an order in today.
Well, that is true - and I was thinking "next time I will get it built for me" earlier. But on the other hand, if soemone built it for me and I still didn't like the noise the fan made sorting that out would probably be more trying (he says, before trying) than having built it myself so it's not always clear which is best.
There is a factor of experience in building systems. It's a lot like Ikea, the first time you try to build a flat pack it doesn't usually go well but after 4 or 5 times you know what to expect and can breeze through it.
On fan noise, I've gotten lots of cases and cooler fans that were quiet as anyone would want and I've gotten ines that rattle and get loud at higher rpm's. It's something of a lottery. The manufacturers tend to put cheap fans on their stuff, the execption is Noctua who make their own fans and for years got by having theugliest fans going by havingthe best you could get at reasonable prices.
No idea what the issue was but rolling back UEFI version? Unless he installed a beta or something I've never heard of a problem severe enough to keep a machine from getting into the OS. Nvidia occasionally puts out a wonky driver but they still shouldn't have kept you from getting into Windows. Since you had to reinstall Windows I think it likely that the actual answer is you need a new tech. I think he did something really crazy wrong or was looking to bill a few hours extra.
I have the Noctua NH-D15. I am not sure the difference in performance from the U12S but it may be worth comparing from online sources if it won't exceed space in your case.
+1
I recently built a new system but I wimped out and achieved significant improvements but didn't test the bounds of silicon. (yet)
I went with the Noctua U12S - should be heer by Wednesday, which gives me a couple of days to strip the old one out and clean up the residue.
For whatever it may be worth: after reading about what you've been finding, I decided to see what my system, which has the same AMD Ryzen 9 3900X Gen3 12 Core AM4 CPU/Processor but a Cooler Master MasterLiquid ML240L AIO cooler, was performing
From what I can see, basically, doing *anything* causes the temperature to spike at least briefly. I mean, it'll be sitting there, idling at 30-35C, which is fine. Then I'll move the mouse -- doing nothing more than that -- and the temperature spikes to around 50C. Rendering pushes it to the 80-85C range for the duration of the render, which in the winter with an ambient temperature that's relatively low isn't a huge issue, but may be something of a problem in the spring and summer. (According to Ryzen Master software, the shutdown temperature is 95C. So ... yes, that's going to be an issue sometime around April or May, I think.) It's a semi-custom prebuild; the company that sort-of-built the system is both somewhat surprised that the Cooler Master isn't doing better -- they say that this is probably the second best on the market for what it's supposed to do -- and recommend that I get a better cooler. Which ... I mean, I might, in a few months, but I've literally had the thing for just over two weeks, and I'm not quite ready to sink another $300-400 into it just yet, somehow.
Also, not at all looking forward to removing and replacing the CPU cooler, which I think would also require me to remove and reseat the GPU's cooler to get to the Cooler Master without damaging something. Not that the GPU is doing all that much; the newest 441 nVidia drivers are actually even worse for throwing things immediately to the CPU than the 440 drivers were, and the nVidia installers flat out would not allow me to install the 430-431 series. But still.
Well, either the Noctua doesn't work with this MB or I have major issues. I can't get the screws (well, long nuts) on thge mount to engage with the bolts on the mounts (trying it dry it's possible to get one to bitem but that tilta the whole thing). I thought of trying to reseat the CPU but it seems to be welded in place by the residual overflow from the A MD thermal pad (or something, anyway).
You take the mounts off. They're for the clip on style coolers.
Here's the install process on AM4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgRC6AzYhsY
Ultimately though it is pretty easy.
Yes, I did that - it just has the spacers and the bars they supplied in place now. I'm going to clean the remianing gunk off the AMD heatsink later, swap the supports back, and do a dry-fit - see if it will go on and the Noctua won't or if the CPU is too high now after removing the original heat sink, and so blocking all. The issue seems to be that the heat sink itself is too high, the bolts don't engage properly with the screws on the heat sink (they go in slightly, but turning the screws doesn't enagae with the thread). I'm curently more worried by the inability to remove the CPU at all (which I suppose argues against its having moved up).
I'm pretty worried too. Did you add thermal paste when you installed the cooler? There should have been some pre applied on the cold plate. If you didn't it shouldn't have squeezed out anywhere. If you did have it unevenly installed that could have maybe squeezed some out, I guess.
But no matter what clean all that thermal paste off. You should be able to get the CPU out of the socket no problem. If cleaning doesn't get it free I strongly recommend contacting a shop that does PC repairs and taking it in to let them have a look.
Well, I did get in touch with the seller. They suggested I was stopping too soon on lifting the arm (true - it had seemed to resist so I stopped, but on their authority I tried a bit harder and it ddi click open, and the CPU lifted out - clean, pretty much - the gunk (which was just the pad from AMD) hadn't actually gone down the edges or underneath, I was misreading the shape of the CPU (it has a slight inset on the top, I thought the black underneath was the socket).
Still can't get the cooler on in the default orientation, but as a test I tried the shorter arms which go crosswise and they did (with a bit more force than I liked) let me fasten both sides down. That means it's horizontal in the case, either blowing hot air onto the GPUs or taking air from near the GPUs, but it does at least work. Not that much better on the temps - they wobbled between 80C and *1C, with monentary spikes to 82C over an eighteen minute run - but the noise at least is dealt with. Now I just have to decide if it's worth another attempt, though I really don't see a way of fastening it using the vertical orientation without tilting the cooler, which would of course disrupt the thermal paste.
Is there a filter on top of the case? If so orient the fan to intake from the top. It won't affect the GPU much. But if the short arms work I'm confused that the long ones didn't.
80 to 81C in a 18 minute stress test is fine. My 2700 goes as high as 85C during a stress test. I'd keep Ryzen Master open while you're doing your usual tasks and see what the temp graph says.
With a single 2080 Ti you should be fine. That being said I would go for 64 gigs of ram instead of 32. As far as cases go. I don't think any can beat the http://www.phanteks.com/Eclipse-P600s.html
phantek makes nice cases, decent price too. I got the pro, it's massive lol. Easy to build in and lots of airflow.
After this long and painful story, I'm more reluctant to build an AMD system, especially one that doesn't support a proper bolt-down setup for the HSF. To me, it seems too dodgy for a production rendering machine.
You certainly can. Cases with closed off fronts are bad.
? The AMD system, except for placement of mounting holes, is not that different from Intel's. As a matter of fact many coolers use a single bracket that has the mounting points for each or 2 brackets that are simply swapped depending on brand. Even the AMD box coolers just use the mounting holes and back plate rather than the old AM3 clamp thing except the Prism which uses the older style for some reason.
I use a hyper 212 in my current AMD build and it bolts down just like Intel excpet that the bracket is different.
The front and top panels on it are removable for when you are doing heavy work and need better airflow.
I wouldn't rad to much into my issues - I took at least three attempts to fir the cooler to this machine ten years ago, and that's an i7. Part of it is an extreme reluctance to apply anything resembling brute force (though I don't think that's the whole story with the long arms on the Noctua).
OK, I put the fan the other way round but yes, it does have a - meshed - open top so i will switch it round and see how that goes.
This is one the things that makes me nervous when I'm putting a system together, and I've built hundreds. Some things, RAM sticks for instance, requires quite a bit of force to get into the slots. With coolers you have to at pick the board up and screw things in which always causes the board to flex. How much force is too much? The amount that cracks the board or pops loose a SMT. Which is not helpful. Basically, and this is the best I can do, the board makers know what assembly requires and the boards are built to survive that with a fair amount of leeway.
So don't go nuts and use a hammer or anything but reasonable amounts of force during installation are fine.