October 2019 - DAZ 3D New User Challenge - Atmosphere

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  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,059

    19-10-Tentacle_Threat

    So I thought I'd set something in the middle of a decided lack of atmosphere. I'm still having trouble with SickleYield's tutorial, so this is temporarily (As with all 'temporary' measures, it's probably permanent.) using Marshian's Fog Camera as an approximation.

    Current task list:

    • Debug the SSS cube. (Currently, if it is visible, the render is all black.)
    • Either perk up that tentacle or add a more lively counterpart.
    • Tweak the lighting. I'm not sure what direction it needs to go, just that it is not yet quite there.
    • Maybe lower the saturation a tad?

    Comments, criticisms, concerns?

    As soon as I saw that tentacle I thought "ooooooo spooky".  It is a good start.  Maybe curling the end of the tentacle off the floor like it is exploring ( which it is ) will give it more movement.  Lighting is going to be tricky.  You want a dark and spooky feel but with enough light so everyone can see what is happening.

  • DaventakiDaventaki Posts: 905
    edited October 2019

    @Fishtales

    Right now it is a spot I will change it to a distant light and go from there. At that time I was so flustrated I almost gave up completely.   I was originally using the Sun and Sky like in Sickleyields tutorial but I couldn't get any rays at all only foginess.  I worked on it several hours last night.

    @daedalus7 Thank you!  Ill remember the denoiser but I didn't let them render out for very long I just wanted enough of a view to tell how strong the light was.

     

    Post edited by Daventaki on
  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,059
    L'Adair said:

    Here is my go at this challenge.  I made some billboards and images for fog, then set the fog planes at varying distances and opacities from the camera.  The trees and grasses are all billboards.  I was not sure if this would render on my GPU with the three tigers, but it did smiley.

    I call this "Tigers at Night".

    Great work.  Planes can make very effective fog.  The starry sky is a great addition.  My only quibble, and it is a small one, is the fog to the right of the image gives me the impression of smoke from a forest fire.  Which can also be quite atmospheric but I am not sure that was what you wanted.

    And I didn't get that impression at all! I suppose it's "environmental" to an extent. I used to live south of San Francisco and one of my favorite drives was Skyline Boulevard at night. It was best when the fog was rolling in from the ocean to blanket the bay, and the fog would be thin in one place and as thick as pea soup in another. Sometimes it felt like another world for miles at a time. And that's immediately what I though of when I saw the fog in this image. It might help to look more like fog to the rest of the world, though, if you can get it to look more white. Not quite sure how to do that with a plane, though…

    We don't get fog rolling in like that...it just blankets everything in a thick layer.  Then in the morning it will slowly rise and you will see this layer of it floating above your head.

    I think it is the grey tones in the fog that is giving me the impression of smoke.  The fog I am used too is definitely white and reflects any light right back at you.

     

  • ariochsnowpawariochsnowpaw Posts: 147
    edited October 2019

    I am a little late getting a start on this one.  Atmosphere has been my bane because my hardware limitation.  Those will soon go away soon (designing the new render beast and have the $$$ to get it now).  I used a combo of volumetrics and planes.  I might have overdone it.

    Bathing at Dawn

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  • L'Adair said:
    daedalus7 said:

     

    This is looking really good.

    However, I'd like to point out there are other ways of creating atmosphere than using a volume with settings. Sisyphus1977's Tiger's at Night image is a prefect example, where he used planes to create fog. There are a number of products which can help you create atmosphere, (and I list a bunch of them at the bottom of this post,) but while those are convenient, you can make your own versions using primatives you create in Daz Studio.

    As your system has trouble with the volume props, I'd recommend staying with planes. You can stack several planes one in front of the other to create a similar effect as the volume. The main thing is what settings you apply to the planes. That can be tricky. But a white plane with a cloud-like transmap can do wonders for creating smoke and fog.

    I'll play with it for a bit, and see if I can come up with some reasonable settings for using planes to create the volume effect you're using with your sand image. Not for that image, but future reference.

    Thanks for the information. I looked up your thread and found some interesting things to try out. 

    I only wanted to point out that in my image I am using a combination of Volume and Planes (with images of clouds), but definitely the planes are a lot more GPU friendly.  

  • Sisyphus1977Sisyphus1977 Posts: 304
    edited October 2019
    L'Adair said:

    Here is my go at this challenge.  I made some billboards and images for fog, then set the fog planes at varying distances and opacities from the camera.  The trees and grasses are all billboards.  I was not sure if this would render on my GPU with the three tigers, but it did smiley.

    I call this "Tigers at Night".

    Great work.  Planes can make very effective fog.  The starry sky is a great addition.  My only quibble, and it is a small one, is the fog to the right of the image gives me the impression of smoke from a forest fire.  Which can also be quite atmospheric but I am not sure that was what you wanted.

    And I didn't get that impression at all! I suppose it's "environmental" to an extent. I used to live south of San Francisco and one of my favorite drives was Skyline Boulevard at night. It was best when the fog was rolling in from the ocean to blanket the bay, and the fog would be thin in one place and as thick as pea soup in another. Sometimes it felt like another world for miles at a time. And that's immediately what I though of when I saw the fog in this image. It might help to look more like fog to the rest of the world, though, if you can get it to look more white. Not quite sure how to do that with a plane, though…

    We don't get fog rolling in like that...it just blankets everything in a thick layer.  Then in the morning it will slowly rise and you will see this layer of it floating above your head.

    I think it is the grey tones in the fog that is giving me the impression of smoke.  The fog I am used too is definitely white and reflects any light right back at you.

     

    Both you and L'Adair have really good observations (full disclaimer, I grew up across the Golden Gate from SF) regarding the fog.  I have a couple of ideas now that I need to try to create with the planes to change the color from the grey and provide more of a layering to achieve the thickness from low to high, maybe using a gradient map when I create the plane in Affinity Photo.  Thanks to both of you!

    Post edited by Sisyphus1977 on
  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,059

    I am a little late getting a start on this one.  Atmosphere has been my bane because my hardware limitation.  Those will soon go away soon (designing the new render beast and have the $$$ to get it now).  I used a combo of volumetrics and planes.  I might have overdone it.

    Bathing at Dawn

    I don't think you overdid it.  Perhaps adjusting the opacity on some of the planes to create thicker and thinner area of steam?, fog? would help.

  • Daedalus-7Daedalus-7 Posts: 115
    edited October 2019

    Having done a first entry, I did a second one, but different. Something with blood rain instead of fog (although blurred dark red rain is a bit hard to spot in a dark image like this one, you will need to view it in its full size to notice all details) and going more with a dark mood this time. Note that it's a bit...bloody (being in theme with halloween and all smiley). Let me know what you think [I am already thinking of making the rain...more visible :) ].


    Blood Rain

     

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  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,059

    I see you are also using DOF @daedalus7.  I can see the rain.  Another option, and it is entirely up to you, would be to take the red out of the background rock she is leaning against.  The bloody rain is blending in with the rock but funnily enough not with her dress.  Or maybe the rock needs more red? 

    Think contrast.  I like the idea.  Looking forward to seeing what you do next.

     

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,448
    edited October 2019

    I see you are also using DOF @daedalus7.  I can see the rain.  Another option, and it is entirely up to you, would be to take the red out of the background rock she is leaning against.  The bloody rain is blending in with the rock but funnily enough not with her dress.  Or maybe the rock needs more red? 

    Think contrast.  I like the idea.  Looking forward to seeing what you do next.

    @daedalus7, I agree with Kismet, but I'd like to add…

    It may be possible to make the red of the rain show up more with a tiny bit of emission. It's a trick I use a lot for many things, though I've not tried it with something like this. I'm going to take a wild guess that the rain is created using planes with transmaps to create the rain effect. If so, you've probably applied a shade of red to the Base Color. If I'm right, then the easiest way to add luminance to the rain will be to use the transmap in the Emissive Color image channel, and use the Layered Image Editor to turn the white to red. (Add a red layer above the map and change the blend mode so the results are black and red instead of black and white.) Set the Emissive Color color channel to white and depend on the red in the LIE image for actual color. Then set Luminance to a low value. I frequently use anywhere from 1-50 kcd/m^2, but have used even less a time or two. You only need enough luminance for the camera to pick out the color, not so much that it actually lights up anything in the scene.

    As I haven't tried this, though, I can't guarantee it will work.

    Post edited by L'Adair on
  • Daedalus-7Daedalus-7 Posts: 115
    edited October 2019

    @Kismet2012 Interesting ideas! Both the rock and the dress have reds in it (as you mentioned, not apparent due to lack of contrast). I will try to see what can happen with different colors on those.

    @L'Adair I'll see what I can do to make the rain a bit more visible with the advice you gave without turning everything in big globes of red light. Maybe even use some other transmaps with bigger droplets.

    Thanks a lot for the great tips!

    Post edited by Daedalus-7 on
  • DaventakiDaventaki Posts: 905

    Here is my updated version.  I cannot decide if I want to leave this my final or not.  I like the noise, adds a vintage look I think...

     

     

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  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 5,140
    Daventaki said:

    Here is my updated version.  I cannot decide if I want to leave this my final or not.  I like the noise, adds a vintage look I think...

     

     

     

    I find the light a bit harsh. Is it a Distant Light? If it is I would set the Temperature to 4500 to warm it up a bit.

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,059
    Daventaki said:

    Here is my updated version.  I cannot decide if I want to leave this my final or not.  I like the noise, adds a vintage look I think...

     

     

    The noise also mimics dust.

  • Daedalus-7Daedalus-7 Posts: 115
    edited October 2019

    Ok, after a lot of work (fun work, at least), I have a new version of the Blood Rain, although I would say that the character is NOT directly under the rain, otherwise I would have to add a lot more stuff.  

    As per request: 

    • there is "slighlty more red" on the throne, which has been re-shaded to have no red whatsoever in the stone (to avoid confusing things),
    • added rain layers (turns out it's difficult to convert "water rain" images to "red rain", the red looks like a very washed-out pink so, after trying many different methods, I made my own image).
    • changed the dress color. Unfortunately, only a light color would allow for the rain to be seen in front of the dress, and the character is already super pale and I needed some contrast in scene. At least now it has bats!
    • added blood to the dress
    • added realism here and there (puddles, splashes, etc).
    • Added postwork! 

    Please let me know what you think! Needs more blood, right? devil


    Here is a version with less blood on the throne which I think it might be more balanced color-wise:

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  • DaventakiDaventaki Posts: 905

    Ok I think I like this version better it doesnt wash out the girl and the back so much.

    @Fishtales I will try that and see.  Its a spotlight, I could not get the effect I wanted with anything else.

     

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  • Daedalus-7Daedalus-7 Posts: 115
    edited October 2019
    Daventaki said:

    Ok I think I like this version better it doesnt wash out the girl and the back so much.

    @Fishtales I will try that and see.  Its a spotlight, I could not get the effect I wanted with anything else.

     

    Great stuff, I like it. Although you seem to have excluded the atmospheric effect from all the candles, which kind of makes them look a bit worse in my opinion. Perhaps a micro-cloud on them?

    Also, I would have placed the girl in front of the window with her hand up and in front of her with fingers spread, to protect her eyes from the sunlight, but also to get the godrays through the fingers. I think it could be an interesting thing do to.

    Post edited by Daedalus-7 on
  • dragoneyes002dragoneyes002 Posts: 177
    edited October 2019

    a different kind of atmosphere rendered daz3d no post work 

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  • DaventakiDaventaki Posts: 905

    Phase 3.  I did an internet search on volumetric lighting through windows and noticed that not one of the many pictures I looked at showed other lighting in the room photo or 3d. So I thought I would turn those off. Changed the color as Fishtales suggested and like it better.

    Thank you for your comments @daedalus7 I wanted the girl to look like she was approaching the window cautiously because she knows its going to be bright but wants a peek outside.

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  • ariochsnowpawariochsnowpaw Posts: 147
    edited October 2019

    I wanted to play with things a bit more and take a different approach to creating atmosphere so here's a second submission.  I was a little lacking in resources (need some long dresses and had to make the coffin in Hexagon)

    Only Memories

    What deep, abiding mortal pain

    When only memories remain

     

    Rendered in Daz, PW in PS CC to add some foreground fog and fix some bothersome pokethrough that dForce couldn't seem to solve.

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  • Daedalus-7Daedalus-7 Posts: 115
    edited October 2019

    I wanted to play with things a bit more and take a different approach to creating atmosphere so here's a second submission.  I was a little lacking in resources (need some long dresses and had to make the coffin in Hexagon)

    Only Memories

    What deep, abiding mortal pain

    When only memories remain

     

    Rendered in Daz, PW in PS CC to add some foreground fog and fix some bothersome pokethrough that dForce couldn't seem to solve.

    A good beginning. However I would also add a reflection on the ground, as well as water splashes and puddles.

    Post edited by Daedalus-7 on
  • sueyasueya Posts: 582
    edited October 2019

    I added a fog plane to my image and adjusted the lighting.This is rendered in 3Delight. I would like some constructive feedback.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • Daedalus-7Daedalus-7 Posts: 115
    edited October 2019
    sueya said:

    I added a fog plane to my image and adjusted the lighting.This is rendered in 3Delight. I would like some constructive feedback.

    • Your scene could use some shadows, especially on the ground cast by the couple. Perhaps a light might illuminate the back of the girl from the left, thus also bringing a bit of color to the scene? 
    • The vines you are using (on the fountain) are low polygon and flat, which mean that they are meant to be placed at a long distance instead of their current close-medium one. Also, consider placing them so that they are viewed from the front, instead of the side (as they are currently) so as to give a better illusion that they are real.
    • The Yellow and Red trees in the backgorund seem to have been added in postwork. You should make sure they are masked properly.
    • The female is using clothing of a much better quality than the male. Consider matching them if possible.
    • Consider using a DOF, focused on the couple, so as to focus the viewer's attention to their romantic dance. 
    • Consider reframing your image or moving the couple up a bit. Right now the couple's feet seems to to be too close to the bottom. 

    Here are 3 re-framing options/ideas to consider (the first one is meant to be wider and more centered):

    • RENDER ENGINE: 3Delight, being a biased render engine [meaning everything is rendered with appoximative rules], requires you to be quite knowledgeable of its settings to get the kind of result you want. Are you using it because you don't have an Nvidia card / or are on Mac?  I am saying it because an un-biased render engine [using real physics properties for most materials] might be easier to use and get you better results faster, and although Iray is one of them, it's not the only one for DAZ Studio or Poser. One example is the Reality 4.3 Engine (also works on a MAC): 

    I hope I gave you some useful advice!

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  • @daedalus7 - Wow!  I had turned the splashes off and forgotten to turn them back on.  Same with the ground plane.  It's really surprising how you can get so focused on the setup for the render that you become blind to the output.  Thank you.  Back to iRay to render again.

     

  • _ AL1vE __ AL1vE _ Posts: 280
    edited October 2019

    A L I E N  -  looking for the creature

     

    You really shouldn't be here…

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  • @daedalus7 - Wow!  I had turned the splashes off and forgotten to turn them back on.  Same with the ground plane.  It's really surprising how you can get so focused on the setup for the render that you become blind to the output.  Thank you.  Back to iRay to render again.

     

    Happens to me all the time. I focus on making certain details perfect, and then I forget about all the others. smiley

  • Daedalus-7Daedalus-7 Posts: 115
    edited October 2019

    Here I added a Fantasy effect for a "softer" look:

    EDIT: I removed the grundge effect pictures, as they were too dark and grainy and I did not look the effect.

     

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  • _ AL1vE _ said:

    A L I E N  -  looking for the creature

     

    You really shouldn't be here…

    @_AL1VE_  This is looking more and more like a place I wouldn't want to find myself at all.

  • "I think I need more arrows...."   

  • Daedalus-7Daedalus-7 Posts: 115
    edited October 2019
    _ AL1vE _ said:

    A L I E N  -  looking for the creature

     

    You really shouldn't be here…

    I like the idea you have here, I can see many good elements. As it is, though, the image tells me "area check, all safe here"; the human has the upper hand. This happens because the viewer is looking from a dark area into a light (that gives a sense of security, like a light at the end of a tunnel).

    What you could try, is to use tension, either by looking from an illuminated area into a dark area (in which you could also have some atmosphere) or giving a sense that the character is in some imminent danger from the alien, but is not aware of it (while the viewer is). It doesn't need to be something too obvious, just a hint is sufficient to let the mind fill in the blanks. 

    I hope to have given you some ideas!

    Post edited by Daedalus-7 on
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