Are we as consumers so shallow?
JonnyRay
Posts: 1,744
I want to preface by saying that although I'm using Val3DArt's latest releases as an example, this is in NO WAY intented to call them out. The products look amazing and given all their other outfits I have in my wardrobe, I'm sure they're top quality as well.
I also know that the typical response from vendors would be that "Sexy female outfits sell better than practical ones". And I will fully admit that if I were going to spend a couple weeks of my time making a product I'd want it to sell as well as possible. That's why this is more a question of those of us who are buying products.
I have to say, that I was struck this morning by the gender disparity in the martial art's themed outfits.
The male gets an outfit which, although stylized, is still something that a martial artist might wear. The female got a leather bikini and a short robe.
I saw the male product first and when I realized there was a female version I thought "Awesome, we can have men and women fighting evil together and looking like a team!" But then I was disappointed in how skimpy the female product was. The textures on the robe, the modeling of the hat and the shinai look awesome. But why can't we have an outfit that is closer to matching the man's?
I know the "why" is because if Val had created a more conserative outfit, it probably wouldn't sell as well as the sexier one. And, like I said, I can't fault that logic. It's beautiful work and went on to my wishlist.
Can't we as customers do better? Can't we support the idea that the women in our renders can be feminine AND be kickass fighters?
I know I can kitbash it with some other pieces to become more practical for kicking butt. I just wish that our buying patterns were better at motivating such a fine content artist to create an equal partner for the male outfit instead of something that looks more appropriate for a beach party.
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Comments
And he gets a real sword while she gets a bamboo practice sword.
That part didn't bother me as much. Although the shinai would have made more sense if she'd had a full kendogu outfit. :)
As someone who is very much attracted to women and renders female figures almost exclusively, I still wouldn't use outfits like that one. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with presenting a woman in a sexy or provocative fashion; the problem is when that is the expected, default way to present women, above and beyond any other concerns.
When pitched against the Silent Majority, the Vocal Minority usually loses.
I don't have a problem with sexy/unrealistic battle outfits per se, but the disparity between male and female does bug.
It's a two part problem.
I get frustrated when people 'blame' the PAs for following the market. But... I understand trying to find someone you can pin down to enact change, it's just that PAs can't.
Change needs to come from customers... that's part 1. But the second part is... how the heck do you convince thousands of people to want different things? Like, VERY different, not just 'well, she has slightly longer hair, that's cool'
No idea. :/
Is there a way to make male/female clothing interchangeable? Switch the outfits.
The keyword is needs.
I think the majority do this as a hobby. Most of the stuff they buy aren't what they need. I think it's more what they want. Convincing them to change their buying habit with argument is going to be a tall task.
The 'needs' is predicated on functionality.
IF there is going to be change, that change must come from customers.
If it can't or won't, welp. Here we are.
No, at least for me. You forget that everyone has their own idea on what "feminine" is. if she was wearing what the male fighter has one, I would say she looks more masculine/less feminie then.
In your example if i wanted her to be a "normal" looking fighter, she would be wearing the male version since a female version wouldn't be that different. Unless a uniform needs to be cut differently for a woman, I tend to use the male version instead anyway.
The way I see it is there are more options for either figure and for customers now instead of 2 normal looking outfits.
All she needs now are her heels and she will be set to kickass, LOL
Funny, just noticed the female set is the number one hot seller, go figure!
The answer is yes and the PA’s are in it to make a living.
I rendered out a bunch of sexy skimpy dressed Paragon women dancing with weapons today in Unreal Engine 4 so it’s not limited to DAZ, the male characters have over the top armour.
For the rest of us there are cross fitting utilities
Your definition of "feminine" is "intended solely to be gawked at by men"? If she were wearing the male outfit, her midriff would still be exposed, and her breasts would be exposed (if the male outfit were applied directly with no translation) or just held in by a bandage, and still mostly exposed. It would still be a pretty sexy outfit for a woman.
Sex sells. Plain and simple. Don't overthink it.
Questioning what this says about us as individuals and a society is not OVERthinking anything, it's simply being willing to think about it at all.
It says not much about us forum folks, but more about the silent majority who spend a bajillion on high heel poses and outfits that consist of dental floss and spiked shoes :P
Daz just came out with the Genesis 8 Cross-Figure Resource Kit to do just that. I only tried it once with a G8M sweater outfit to work on G8F. Hopefully others who have it can chime in too.
Now, imagine being female and that's all you see. Constantly. Everyday. All day. And if you dare to have a differing opinion about it, you get called names, some of them utterly horrible. Imagine living with that from birth to death. Just, imagine it.
there's a big difference between skimpy and sexy
skimp does not necessarily = sexy
"Sex sells" has been a marketing truism for decades, it's nothing new. Most likely, that truism will continue to hold as long as there are products to be sold.
With that said, I'll probably pass on these particular outfits; I'm not a fan of the giant hats.
De gustibus non est disputandem
Nor does sexy = skimp.
sexy chicks with clothes on
not sure but looks like she lip syncing. or is it mimic? lol
Thanks, that would be extremely useful if someone wanted to swap out the bottom outfit for robes. Nothing forces us to use the outfit as it is, so mix it up if you wish.
I have no problem with artists creating sexy content or art. I create a lot of sexy art. It’s much easier to add extra clothing items than trying to make a non-sexy outfit sexy...
Not with Fit Control it isn't!
...one can always autofit and/or kitbash
Fitted Immortal Ronin to a G2F character (old image).
The answer is quite simple .... ummm .....yes.
Since the outfit in question in the original post has been in the #1 slot for "What's Hot" all day, It would seem that the shoppers here are indeed "so shallow". I'll add to this, yes, I am also indeed "so shallow". Now I haven't bought this outfit ..... yet, but I have looked at it more than once asking myself "now would I really use it". I would definitely use the bikini, and I think the rest of it as well, so I might just get it because it is a great outfit (IMHO)! In fact, this thread makes me want to purchase it even more. (Probably some childish ego thing, that I'm likely to get over even if I don't make the purchase, but I thought I'd just throw it out there as food for thought. Or is it that I just thought of food. That's it, this thread made me think of a having some very scantily clad shrimp scampy .... or at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it!)
Now, as so many on the forums ask, "why only skimpy (sexy?) impracticle cloths, and no practical and realistic cloths". Well .... for me the answer is very simple. I like to render fantasy scenes, being heavily influenced by Frank Frazetta, Boris Vallejo, and others with similar styles. As a result, a "sexy" female in some form of "skimp wear" usually fits within the parameters with what I want to render. I typically have very little interest in rendering what we see in reality, because I see reality every day, all day, and I have a camera (actually several) that can render reality much better than I can. As a result, the practical outfits that so many here always request, are the outfits I tend to not buy (or render). It would seem that I'm not alone. Now I do occasionally do an everyday scene type of render, and when I do it can be rather difficult because I have very little in the virtual wardrobe to chose from (except for a bikini or two
).
I can understand the frustration for those who do wish to render figures with "normal" and/or "practical" clothing, as these seem to be the type of items that don't sell well, and therefore aren't as prominent in the store. However, I don't feel that making rather condescending remarks about the typically silent majority is probably the best way to address the situation?? As indicated from the responses above, I think those of us on the forums who do prefer these types of "skinpwear" outfits are getting a bit tired of being characterized as being .... well .... so shallow, or immature, or ........ (I'm not really offended, or upset, I'm writting all this with a smile on my face, which is begining to freak me out a bit. Seriously though, I think it might be good to put yourself in someone else's shoes before making some of the statements often made about the subject, and those who use the products.)
I should also add, that I really don't think this isn't just a guy thing, since my wife prefers the more impractical skimpy type outfits vs more practical or every day outfits. She also typically doesn't like most of the stuff for male figures, including most of the males figures (and yes, this does influence my buying trends).
Happy renedering, and may everyone be able to find the outfits they want
Hey KK!
Thanks, I think it looks better G2F than on M4, may just have to wishlist that one!
...thank you. Yeah all it takes is a little "digital" elbow grease sometimes.
Someday I should be good enough at modelling to just make my own..
3D Men: Badass mofos
3D Women: doomed to be killed in battle, but look sexy doing it.
;)
Laurie