July, 2019 - Daz 3D New User Challenge - Portrait Rendering

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Comments

  • no noseno nose Posts: 154
     

    @ no nose - #3 is definitely the best in terms of cropping.  Once again I find the shadows a little strong defined so a mesh light might let you soften them but I wouldn’t soften them very much.  The severity adds a lot to the image.  Sorry, that’s all I got.  Nice render and the monochrome is just so powerful.  I can see her playing a role in the Matrix.

    Thanks, is this any better?

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  • ariochsnowpawariochsnowpaw Posts: 132

    @no nose - That softened the shadows pretty nicely and also made the highlights in her eyes really pop.  It also picked out the folds on the front of her shoulder and some of the light penetrated the shadows  on her left shoulder bringing out the texture of the material.  I'm not sure what you did but one little change really had a big impact.  I think a definite improvement on an already good work.

  • no noseno nose Posts: 154

    @no nose - That softened the shadows pretty nicely and also made the highlights in her eyes really pop.  It also picked out the folds on the front of her shoulder and some of the light penetrated the shadows  on her left shoulder bringing out the texture of the material.  I'm not sure what you did but one little change really had a big impact.  I think a definite improvement on an already good work.

    Thanks, I did what was suggested and added a mesh light (which required a ton of moving around to find a good spot)

  • dragoneyes002dragoneyes002 Posts: 131

     

    I have her more head on in a few of the drafts I'll try and transfer one to post but the lower lip bite seems best in profile  the effect gets lost as the face is more forward towards the camera

    I hadn't really caught the lip bite.  I've tried that several times with no real success.  I look forward to seeing what you do with it.

    this is an earlier draft before adding some of the set pieces she's more facing the cam even this far sideways the overbite kind of gets blended in it only shows less the further her face turns towards the camera

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  • TigerAnneTigerAnne Posts: 1,248

    Okay, so I wasn't expecting to get so much response to my entry, and I'm actually a little nervous because AAAAAAAAAAH I can't live up to the pressure! crying But I've tried to keep everyone's suggestions in mind, and this is the next evolution of my entry. I changed the lighting to an afternoon preset that came with Merlin's Oak, which has several light-sources. Then I changed the tint of the distant light to be more lavender-pink, instead of blue. People thought the Mousso skin I used was a little too perfect, so I replaced it with "Brienne." She's actually not wearing any make-up, which was also suggested, the skin is just shaded like that around the eyes. Getting the darn t-shirt to lie flat was just not happening, so I had to put a figure-hugging camisole on her instead. 

    Zarinda is now channeling her inner Bella Swan (a famous non-emoter), although that wasn't intentional, and is biting her lip.

  • Sisyphus1977Sisyphus1977 Posts: 122

    @ariochsnowpaw said:

    I kinda hate the outfit you had to work with because there is no material thickness to it and it rides off of her.

    Yeah, I am not happy with that either, so I used dForce along with making the top slighting smaller to make it more fitting.  I haven't a clue how to fix the thickness of the material in Daz.  I played with some of the surfaces settings, but no real change.  If anyone has any suggestions, I am open to giving it a go.  Maybe I will try to apply a geoshell to it and see if that can give it some additional depth.

    I moved her bangs on the right side of the frame (model left) and pulled them back a bit more, but still left some as I like that look for the composition.  I increased the fill light some more to brighten up the shot, but I am not sure about the change.  I may go back to the original, I need to think about it and come back to this scene later and work on the other one.  So here is Kala with a Hat version 2.

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  • ariochsnowpawariochsnowpaw Posts: 132

    @sisyphus1977xx - First let me be clear that I loved the original.  I think the way the dress is now hugging her shoulder definitely helps to fix the thin look of the fabric.  You've improved the contrast on her face without ruining the shape of shadow.  The triangle on her left cheek is much more pronounced.  There is now some transluceny to the back of her hat which really integrates her into your (frankly amazing) background...I reall would like to know what you used for backgound cuz I want it).    I really think it contrasts better this way.  I wouldn't worry about the material thickness anymore if it was me (maybe cuz i'm lazy and have limited time to rerender) but I think the improved fit to the shoulders takes care of that adequately.  I'm really impressed that you were able to improve what I kinda thought was already a done deal.

    BTW...I'm still crushing blacks and bumping saturation.  I cannot thank you enough!

  • Sisyphus1977Sisyphus1977 Posts: 122

    ariochsnowpaw said:

    ...(frankly amazing) background...I reall would like to know what you used for backgound cuz I want it).

    When I was thinking about this scene, I knew I was going to pose her in a white dress and wanted something really colorful as the background.  I got the image off of Pixabay (https://pixabay.com/photos/doorway-queen-hdr-exterior-grungy-2368580/), it was free for commercial use and no attribution was required.  It is a door, which I saturated the color more, then dropped it into an image plane behind her.

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  • CoryllonCoryllon Posts: 186

    So I tried to add more backgroundto show it's more of an overgrown ruin behind her, but as I feared it added TOO MUCH background. I am trying a deapth of field version, but so far the swords are not coming into focus if she is, so I might have to try a rim light instead. I can't find any examples or tutorials. does anyone have a good one?  

  • I know you're trying to do it all in DS, but could you isolate the swords, render them with no dof, then plant that image over the top of a swordless model with dof? Would be a simple adding of two PNG files in layers.

    Regards,

    Richard

  • Sisyphus1977Sisyphus1977 Posts: 122

    Coryllon, how about just rotating the sword on the scene right (model's left) so it is more vertical, which would keep it in the same focal plane as her leg.  If her leg is in focus, then that sword should be too. 

  • CoryllonCoryllon Posts: 186

    I know you're trying to do it all in DS, but could you isolate the swords, render them with no dof, then plant that image over the top of a swordless model with dof? Would be a simple adding of two PNG files in layers.

    Regards,

    Richard

    regrettably no, As even parts of one of the swords is both in focus (the middle) and out of focus (the scabbards), I would like to keep the scabbards out of focus. I am trying to alter the DoF field to bring it forward from her  to encompass the swords as well. I have plenty of time for renders as I work 13 hours a day where I can't touch the pictures. It might just be daily render attempts until I get it right, but I think it'll be worth it.

  • dragoneyes002dragoneyes002 Posts: 131
    Coryllon said:

    So I tried to add more backgroundto show it's more of an overgrown ruin behind her, but as I feared it added TOO MUCH background. I am trying a deapth of field version, but so far the swords are not coming into focus if she is, so I might have to try a rim light instead. I can't find any examples or tutorials. does anyone have a good one?  

     

    Coryllon said:

    So I tried to add more backgroundto show it's more of an overgrown ruin behind her, but as I feared it added TOO MUCH background. I am trying a deapth of field version, but so far the swords are not coming into focus if she is, so I might have to try a rim light instead. I can't find any examples or tutorials. does anyone have a good one?  

    you can increase the focus area in depth of field with the F-stop slider creates a deeper box its the slider directly above or below the depth of field one used to set focus depth

  • sueyasueya Posts: 424

    I have changed the format to portrait

  • CoryllonCoryllon Posts: 186
    Coryllon said:

    So I tried to add more backgroundto show it's more of an overgrown ruin behind her, but as I feared it added TOO MUCH background. I am trying a deapth of field version, but so far the swords are not coming into focus if she is, so I might have to try a rim light instead. I can't find any examples or tutorials. does anyone have a good one?  

     

    Coryllon said:

    So I tried to add more backgroundto show it's more of an overgrown ruin behind her, but as I feared it added TOO MUCH background. I am trying a deapth of field version, but so far the swords are not coming into focus if she is, so I might have to try a rim light instead. I can't find any examples or tutorials. does anyone have a good one?  

    you can increase the focus area in depth of field with the F-stop slider creates a deeper box its the slider directly above or below the depth of field one used to set focus depth

    that's what I am playing with. This is the progress so far... but having no experience with FoD means I have to play with the numbers quite a bit, so it's not perfect, yet

    Simone Antari 2 fod.png
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  • Sisyphus1977Sisyphus1977 Posts: 122

    sueya said:

    I have changed the format to portrait

    May I make a couple of suggestions on the pose, feel free to use them as you wish.  Perhape rotating the character around so his right arm with the tattoo is more forward (Y rotation in a positive direction, maybe 20 degrees) and then turn his head back to the right some by twisting his neck.  That way you can see that tattoo in the frame better, while still seeing the tears on his face.  Lastly, maybe see about lowering the camera perspective and tilting it up slighting to bring him into frame. 

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 8,111
    Coryllon said:

    So I tried to add more backgroundto show it's more of an overgrown ruin behind her, but as I feared it added TOO MUCH background. I am trying a deapth of field version, but so far the swords are not coming into focus if she is, so I might have to try a rim light instead. I can't find any examples or tutorials. does anyone have a good one?  

    I have a tutorial here. I've learned a few things since I wrote that, but I think it helps a lot for understanding why the various settings do what they do. At the end, there are links to two other tutorials, which are very useful. They skip some of the "this does that" stuff I put in my tutorial, but they show some easier ways of doing things.

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 3,739

    As a result of the kind suggestions made by Kismet2012 and Ariochsnowpaw, I have updated the two renders, as attached.

    The 'Contemplating the Ruins'  image went reasonably well. The cornea bulge worked well. I softened the shadows by changing the sun size from 4 to 16, and tweaked the drape of the figure's hair. I kept the sun as sun rather than mesh because, well, I can understand its positioning more easily. I like the soft, low angle of the sun at high latitudes, so dial in a date of 21 June, latitude 80 to 85 degrees north, 10 pm local time, then spin the dome to get the light from the right direction. If I want less yellow light, I simply change the time closer to mid-day.

    The 'To the Wok Festival' was a bit more of a problem. The clothes were for G3F, the hair was for G3F, so, as the character base had G3 & G8 options, I originally made it G3F. G3F has no cornea bulge morph. So, I put in a tiny spotlight pointing at each eye with a luminance of 15 lux, and made the eye surface as reflective as I could. The figure's right eye reflection was out of shot for the camera. The left eye, well, it's not quite right. The iris rather than the cornea is doing the reflection. Consequently there is no reflection at the pupil. I will have to try to correct this, and when I do so, I must remember to hide the other figure. Her hair adds 3 minutes to the computer's time thinking about starting a spot render. For interest, I added a full colour rendered version, which confirms my belief that a monochrome render was the best option for this scene. I stopped the render at 38%, by which time it gives a good idea of the finished render.

    Regards,

    Richard

    Not all images convert well from colour to black and white.  I agree with you that "To the Wok Festival" is a better black and white image than it is in colour.  Although it adds interest I find the grafiti on the wall distracting in colour. 

     

    You really did capture that contemplative expression and pose in "Contemplating the Ruins".

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 3,739
    TigerAnne said:

    Okay, so I wasn't expecting to get so much response to my entry, and I'm actually a little nervous because AAAAAAAAAAH I can't live up to the pressure! crying But I've tried to keep everyone's suggestions in mind, and this is the next evolution of my entry. I changed the lighting to an afternoon preset that came with Merlin's Oak, which has several light-sources. Then I changed the tint of the distant light to be more lavender-pink, instead of blue. People thought the Mousso skin I used was a little too perfect, so I replaced it with "Brienne." She's actually not wearing any make-up, which was also suggested, the skin is just shaded like that around the eyes. Getting the darn t-shirt to lie flat was just not happening, so I had to put a figure-hugging camisole on her instead. 

    Zarinda is now channeling her inner Bella Swan (a famous non-emoter), although that wasn't intentional, and is biting her lip.

    I disagree.  I find her more engaging now.  The changes are subtle but that is all that was needed.  I am always amazed at what a difference a slight change in facial expression or posing can make.

     

    Love your new Avatar.

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 3,739
    Coryllon said:

    So I tried to add more backgroundto show it's more of an overgrown ruin behind her, but as I feared it added TOO MUCH background. I am trying a deapth of field version, but so far the swords are not coming into focus if she is, so I might have to try a rim light instead. I can't find any examples or tutorials. does anyone have a good one?  

    This is an older PDF Tutorial for DOF I have found quite helpful.  You have to log into ShareCG to download.  You can find it here.

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 3,739
    sueya said:

    I have changed the format to portrait

    Much better sueya.  Now the focus is on your character and all that space where an eye could wander is gone.

    What type of light setup are you using?  Do you have 1 strong light or are you using multiple lights?

  • dragoneyes002dragoneyes002 Posts: 131

    1

    sueya said:

    I have changed the format to portrait

    have you tried him with his eyes looking at the camera? that pose is peacocking so it stands to reason he'd be looking at the person watching him

  • ariochsnowpawariochsnowpaw Posts: 132
    edited July 9

    Spent some time working on Sara.

    Lot of mods but most of them materials (wet skin, lose the chicklet teeth, lips looked like bee stung).  On my screen I see a nice Rembrandt triangle on her left cheek until I upload then it's barely perceptible.

    I don't know what's doing that.

    but....

     

    Sara's Smile

    (edit) Oh, and dForce does work on a geometry shell....but apparently I need more work on that).  It was not pretty.

    Sara's Smile 3.jpg
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    Post edited by ariochsnowpaw on
  • The Blurst of TimesThe Blurst of Times Posts: 921
    edited July 9
    no nose said:

    Decided to try something in black and white, probs need to work on the lighting but for now I'm pretty happy with

    Black & white is a little more complicated than swapping the image type to monochrome. One thing to immediately do is to increase the Contrast.

    richardandtracy_e725004c1a's image is brighter... and darker. There's a contrast in B&W photos that you need to emulate.

    I also like a bit of emulated soft focus on top, but that's slightly more PS/GIMP work. Not a LOT more, but it's more to think about.

    Anyway, here's two seconds of GIMP work on your original just as a demonstration.
    (NOT MY ORIGINAL  IMAGE!!!)

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    Post edited by The Blurst of Times on
  • CoryllonCoryllon Posts: 186

    ok which one do you guys like better? the first one has more fuzzing in the background, the second one has the rapiers in better focus, It looks like that's the trade off.

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  • no noseno nose Posts: 154
    edited July 9
    no nose said:

    Decided to try something in black and white, probs need to work on the lighting but for now I'm pretty happy with

    Black & white is a little more complicated than swapping the image type to monochrome. One thing to immediately do is to increase the Contrast.

    richardandtracy_e725004c1a's image is brighter... and darker. There's a contrast in B&W photos that you need to emulate.

    I also like a bit of emulated soft focus on top, but that's slightly more PS/GIMP work. Not a LOT more, but it's more to think about.

    Anyway, here's two seconds of GIMP work on your original just as a demonstration.
    (NOT MY ORIGINAL  IMAGE!!!)

    Thanks to the suggestion, I felt like anything above 30 was a bit to much, but I did add some contrast. Not to sure if it's enough / to much but I do hope it adds something to the image.

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    6.png
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    Post edited by no nose on
  • no nose said:
    no nose said:

    Decided to try something in black and white, probs need to work on the lighting but for now I'm pretty happy with

    Black & white is a little more complicated than swapping the image type to monochrome. One thing to immediately do is to increase the Contrast.

    richardandtracy_e725004c1a's image is brighter... and darker. There's a contrast in B&W photos that you need to emulate.

    I also like a bit of emulated soft focus on top, but that's slightly more PS/GIMP work. Not a LOT more, but it's more to think about.

    Anyway, here's two seconds of GIMP work on your original just as a demonstration.
    (NOT MY ORIGINAL  IMAGE!!!)

    Thanks to the suggestion, I felt like anything above 30 was a bit to much, but I did add some contrast. Not to sure if it's enough / to much but I do hope it adds something to the image.

    I like it better with more range. Try to get a blend of light and dark that runs the full scope of black to white while preserving the shadows and shapes that you want. Anything short of the full black to white tonal range is short of the goal, IMO.

    Light and shadow are the words you're speaking in the language of the image. If you confine yourself to a smaller range from gray to gray, you aren't telling as rich of a story as you can. 

    All my opinion. Others might have different takes on black and white.

  • skinklizzardskinklizzard Posts: 36
    Coryllon said:

    ok which one do you guys like better? the first one has more fuzzing in the background, the second one has the rapiers in better focus, It looks like that's the trade off.

    not sure if you're already doing this, but DOF is much easier to tinker with visually rather than by purely numbers, so once your camera is set up switch back to perspective view and rotate around so you can see the side profile of the camera's view.

    I'm not sure how narrow a DOF you can get away with in your image but it feels like a smaller f/stop would help.

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  • sueyasueya Posts: 424
    edited July 9

    I rotated Dante to show more of his arm tattoo. I hope I managed to make him look like he is looking at the camera. 

    I have used an Advanced spotlight above his head.

    Post edited by sueya on
  • Version E here just out of IRay. I changed the textures of the right runner's outfit, and moved the first vehicle I had used to try and get some shadows (It was hidden last version, and right behind the center character in the other versions it was in.) just outside of frame stage right with it's taillights eluminated and facing the characters.

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