This is why I prefer regular brows over fibermesh brows

Oso3D

TO reiterate, one reason I'm excited about sbh/dynamic hair is that the way it functions is MUCH more resistant to morph problems that can distort fibermesh.

I'd experiment but the lack of grooming symmetry throws me way the heck off. I'll let people with steadier hands put out product. ;)

 

 

Seven193

Things like hair, beards, eyelashes, and eyebrows are separate meshes that need fitting.  Once you deviate from the base character, it's not going to be a perfect fit, unless some adjustments are made.
 

TO reiterate, one reason I'm excited about sbh/dynamic hair is that the way it functions is MUCH more resistant to morph problems that can distort fibermesh.

I'd experiment but the lack of grooming symmetry throws me way the heck off. I'll let people with steadier hands put out product. ;)

What makes strand-based hair resistance to morphs?  I haven't had the chance to use them much, but I would think they suffer from the same fitting issues.  A strand of hair is a separate mesh, is it not?  And separate meshes need fitting.

novastrider

Fine, example time. Here's why I like Fibermesh eyebrows. Left is an old render, right is a current render with Fibermesh.

I don't think I have to explain what my issue is with the old and what's good about the new, right?
 

Richard John S

novastrider said:

Fine, example time. Here's why I like Fibermesh eyebrows. Left is an old render, right is a current render with Fibermesh.

I don't think I have to explain what my issue is with the old and what's good about the new, right?
 

It looks fine in that image, but now try taking a render with those brows with the angle I had in in my recent example and on different lighting (default daz ruins hdri will work fine). I would be very interested in seeing the results.

Again, here is the example.

SpottedKitty

FWIW, I don't think I've seen fit problems, at least with the current Gen8 generation of fiberhair eyebrows. What I do have a bit of an issue with, though, is the shape. Too many of the ones I have follow the line of the eye socket nicely, then on the inside ends they dip down into the top curve of the eye socket as if they're heading for a nostril. Is this A Thing in recent eyebrow styles?

Drip

Richard John S said:

zombietaggerung said:

Richard John S said:

zombietaggerung said:

I....I don't understand. Eyebrows on people have depth. Eyebrow hairs have thickness. Not every person shaves their eyebrows off and then paints them on....

I.....I......mean.....

what world do you live in? Where people(read women) have no eyebrow hairs?

What world do you live in where eyebrows have to suddenly look like fluff taped onto the face and suddenly it's natural because it has hair and depth but again that looks like fluff taped onto the face? There's a difference between eyebrows that look natural and nice as compared to unnatural fluff (fibermesh brows) that looks taped onto the face... big difference! Sorry, but when it comes to DAZ, the painted on brows (regular brows) look a lot better than the current state of fibermesh brows!

I.....I......mean.....

Did you even bother to look at the two images I shared?

I did look at the images you shared. And the top one looks perfectly natural. The bottom one looks like it has been enhanced with make up. Costume make up. Or bleached badly.

But I have never seen any figure, created by daz or a PA that has fibermesh eyebrows and looks like the second image. Sorry.

I'm sorry, but those brows in the first image do not look natural or real. They look like fake hair glued onto the head. Now lets look at a picture of a real person who is not wearing fake eyebrows as compared to the person shown in the second image (fake brows) and the render shown in the first image (fibermesh brows). As you can see, there is a difference when comparing the fibermesh brows in the first image and the fake eyebrows in the second image with the real eyebrows of the person in the image below. They look real, natural, and not like they are fluff taped onto the face. This is actually what you call real and natural eyebrows! So far, regular eyebrows (even though they are not 100% accurate) and not fibermesh brows bring the best results to comparing to the image below when rendering in DAZ.

Sorry, but her brows look terribly over-epilated, and I have a very strong hunch your "natural model" even penciled the thinnest parts. If you happen to know her personally, then advice her to not touch her eyebrows in any way for at least half a year, and hope mother nature brings most of the hairs back where they belong. She's a very bad example for what natural brows should look like.

Richard John S

 

chevybabe25 said:

Thanks everyone for all the kind words :)  

"Those do indeed look like better results than what I have been getting with the fibermesh brows that come with the characters I've bought, but how do they look in different lighting settings and camera angles?

Here is another example of why I prefer regular brows. As you can see, the fibermesh brow looks like it's losing some glue and is eventually going to fall off of the face."

 

I think that was an easy miss by the vendor.  There is a ton of work that goes into character making and they may not have rotated the figure around to make sure it fit at all those interesting angles.  The brows they made or resource they chose may also not have been the best example of what fibermesh can offer.  They will still add lovely depth at certain angles though.

I will see if I can throw some renders together to show off some odd angles/lighting of my brows.

 

Thanks, looking forward to seeing what they look like in different lighting and camera angles. I'll buy them if the results are the same as in the promo pictures you shared because they do look good there, a night and day difference to the fibermesh brows that I have.

Redz

If your character is a HD morph, and the vendor hasn’t made a projection morph for the head and/or adjusted the brows to take account of the HD details, then this floating effect may occur. I’ve usually found that with adjustment morphs and tweaking the opacity/refraction weight, you can get finer looking brow hairs, especially for lighter hair colours. Sometimes combining painted and fibermesh with the opacity reduced gives a more realistic result. Ultimately there is an infinite variety in styles and growth patterns of eyebrows in real life, some lie flat, some project more, some are more groomed/plucked than others, and I think there’s room for all sorts in 3D art.

Oso3D

That's a good point, Redz; a lot of vendors aren't going to think of doing a projection morph for HD morphs of the forehead because it's not a very common use case. Hmm.

Another vote for strand hair. ;)

 

Richard John S

Okay, maybe I've just had bad luck with the type of fibermesh brows I've been getting with the characters I've bought. I tried Victoria 8's fibermesh brows, and they seem to look fine in the lighting and camera angles I've tested.

chevybabe25

Ok just some quick and dirty/ noisy renders.  The first 2 renders are with the default hdri and just demonstrate how they fit between shapes. The first one is V8 and the second one is G8.  The third pic I tried to add some rim and above lighting and an awkward angle. all which show that they sit flush and have just a little length but not overly poofy/puffy.

 

 

Redz

Oso3D said:

That's a good point, Redz; a lot of vendors aren't going to think of doing a projection morph for HD morphs of the forehead because it's not a very common use case. Hmm.

Another vote for strand hair. ;)

 

I really wish do there was a symmetry option for the strand based editor. 

ALLIEKATBLUE

chevybabe25 said:

Hmm.. Maybe I am being biased here ;) but i don't think my sets are poofy or unnatural at all.

https://www.daz3d.com/beautiful-brows-for-genesis-8-females

Chevybabe25 brows are the joint.

Men, you'd be surprised at what goes on to make eyebrows look "natural"

Richard John S

chevybabe25 said:

Ok just some quick and dirty/ noisy renders.  The first 2 renders are with the default hdri and just demonstrate how they fit between shapes. The first one is V8 and the second one is G8.  The third pic I tried to add some rim and above lighting and an awkward angle. all which show that they sit flush and have just a little length but not overly poofy/puffy.

Thanks for doing the renders, they look great. Your brows definitely look better than what I have. As shown in the first image below, these fibermesh brows look like fur taped onto the face, but yours look a heck of a lot more natural. I also noticed with the brows in my image that they are really floating off of the figure in texture view as compared to the V8 fibermesh brows which attach to the face perfectly. Someone also mentioned in another post about creating geoshells for fibermesh brows to help them blend in better. How do you do that?

Character's fibermesh brows (furry looking):

V8 fibermesh brows (nice looking):

nemesis10

Richard John S said:

chevybabe25 said:

Ok just some quick and dirty/ noisy renders.  The first 2 renders are with the default hdri and just demonstrate how they fit between shapes. The first one is V8 and the second one is G8.  The third pic I tried to add some rim and above lighting and an awkward angle. all which show that they sit flush and have just a little length but not overly poofy/puffy.

Thanks for doing the renders, they look great. Your brows definitely look better than what I have. As shown in the first image below, these fibermesh brows look like fur taped onto the face, but yours look a heck of a lot more natural. I also noticed with the brows in my image that they are really floating off of the figure in texture view as compared to the V8 fibermesh brows which attach to the face perfectly. Someone also mentioned in another post about creating geoshells for fibermesh brows to help them blend in better. How do you do that?

Character's fibermesh brows (furry looking):

V8 fibermesh brows (nice looking):

Her brows have settings to "sink" them closer to the face if that is your preference.....

caravelle

Serene Night said:

I tend  to layer fiber mesh over painted on. I don’t like either alone. I do think real eyebrows are less uniform than the fiber mesh ones used on a lot of characters. Plus I tend to prefe natural to plucked.

+1!

Richard John S

nemesis10 said:

Richard John S said:

chevybabe25 said:

Ok just some quick and dirty/ noisy renders.  The first 2 renders are with the default hdri and just demonstrate how they fit between shapes. The first one is V8 and the second one is G8.  The third pic I tried to add some rim and above lighting and an awkward angle. all which show that they sit flush and have just a little length but not overly poofy/puffy.

Thanks for doing the renders, they look great. Your brows definitely look better than what I have. As shown in the first image below, these fibermesh brows look like fur taped onto the face, but yours look a heck of a lot more natural. I also noticed with the brows in my image that they are really floating off of the figure in texture view as compared to the V8 fibermesh brows which attach to the face perfectly. Someone also mentioned in another post about creating geoshells for fibermesh brows to help them blend in better. How do you do that?

Character's fibermesh brows (furry looking):

V8 fibermesh brows (nice looking):

Her brows have settings to "sink" them closer to the face if that is your preference.....

How to do I sink them closer? Fit to is already on, and I can't adjust xyz with it on.

nemesis10

Richard John S said:

nemesis10 said:

Richard John S said:

chevybabe25 said:

Ok just some quick and dirty/ noisy renders.  The first 2 renders are with the default hdri and just demonstrate how they fit between shapes. The first one is V8 and the second one is G8.  The third pic I tried to add some rim and above lighting and an awkward angle. all which show that they sit flush and have just a little length but not overly poofy/puffy.

Thanks for doing the renders, they look great. Your brows definitely look better than what I have. As shown in the first image below, these fibermesh brows look like fur taped onto the face, but yours look a heck of a lot more natural. I also noticed with the brows in my image that they are really floating off of the figure in texture view as compared to the V8 fibermesh brows which attach to the face perfectly. Someone also mentioned in another post about creating geoshells for fibermesh brows to help them blend in better. How do you do that?

Character's fibermesh brows (furry looking):

V8 fibermesh brows (nice looking):

Her brows have settings to "sink" them closer to the face if that is your preference.....

How to do I sink them closer? Fit to is already on, and I can't adjust xyz with it on.

Oops, I made a mistake... I was thinking of Supernatural brows which does have a morph setting to make the brows flatter against the head.  With Beautiful brows, I would select the head bone of the eyebrows and gently bend the brows closer in the Parameter tab or parent the brow to the figure head and then you could move them using the conventional Z axis.

DisparateDreamer

i have personally always loathed the flat painted brow look and soon as there were fibermesh brows i grabbed them- all of them!  I don't get how people can have flat brows unless they trim them and oil or wax them into a flat shape against the skin. I certainly have fuller brows myself. not caterpillar brows mind you, but they aren't flat painted brows. fibermesh brows are awesome.if they don't fit perfectly just adjust them, it's really not hard. And ditto to the quality of beautiful brows, they are VERY well made. And the Super brows have a lot of morphs to make it fit smoother/flatter if you like that.

AllenArt

chevybabe25 said:

Hmm.. Maybe I am being biased here ;) but i don't think my sets are poofy or unnatural at all.

https://www.daz3d.com/beautiful-brows-for-genesis-8-females

Love the male brows! :D